NaruSasuRival
Leaf Village Regular 🍃
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
- Messages
- 914
- Reaction score
- 198
Welcome to this thread. My only goal here is to raise an issue. While many people like to call a thread theory thread, and end up bringing hard conclusion, I think a theory thread should only raise issue, and let each person give his educated suggestion. So:
I. Hagoromo, Ashura, and Indra
As you can see, Indra's power is represented as the crescent moon, Ashura as the Sun (or full moon), and Hagoromo is represented by the sun(full mon) with circles in it. However, if we consider that Hagoromo had Rinnegan, and those circles are nothing but Rinnegan circles, then Hagoromo is represented by the Rinnegan.
My main argument here are these:
Hagoromo : The Sun (moon ) with circle and whatever it represents
Indra : The crescent moon
Ashura : The Sun (or full moon)
Remarks: Hagoromo said he had two sons. BZ did not say Hagoromo had two sons. Rather, BZ said Hagoromo raised Ashura and Indra. It is also weird that Kaguya knew both Ashura and Indra, and characterizes Hagoromo with sun (moon) and Hamura with crescent moon.
So, the issues here are the parental affiliation of Indra and Ashura, and the powers of all four main players (Hagoromo, Hamura, Indra, and Ashura). However, I focus on the distribution of power.
II. Naruto and (Ashura + Hagoromo)
[spiler]
Now, look at the above pictures of Naruto taken from the manga. I claim that Naruto has three different type of power inside him.
On the left panel, Naruto's shoulder display clearly a differentiating marking compare to everyone who ever obtained Senjutsu of the six paths - that is different from Madara, Obito, and even Rikudo. Madara, Obito, and Rikudo never showed the marking that Naruto has on his shoulder. Clearly, these are the signature of Ashura's power which Naruto even had before meeting Hagoromo just as below.
On the right panel, we have the new effect on Naruto's outfit after meeting Rikudo and being recharged with the chakra of all the Bijus. Here, we have two different markings:
Now, before you flame, you need to go in (I.) and see that the signature of Hagoromo's power, the concentric circles did not have the nine tomoes below them. This is why I separate these two as two different source of power. Interestingly, it turns out that Hagoromo has the moon sun/full moon marking on his hand while it is inter that Hamura had the crescent moon sign. Thus, as preliminary issue, I could raise this:
Moreover, Naruto having the sign of Hagoromo's concentric circles give the following issue:
------ Edited 06/20/2014 ---
As I said in the OP, these thread aims at raising issues. This means everyone's idea is welcome, and I am confident that the final conclusion by Kishi will be here. I have noticed that the key question here is why Indra has Sharingan and not Byakugan. Here, I will throw two other points:
III. (Senju x Uzumaki) vs (Huyaga x Uchiha)
1. Huyaga x Uchiha
Most people on fanbases like to discard a very important fact given by Kakashi. See, a character like Kakashi does not open his mouth often, and almost every intel he gave was correct. Kakashi said, and I quote:
Now that we know that Huyaga's ancestor was Kaguya's son, we know that Hamura has children as well. Why did Hagoromo not talk about them? Was he keeping some secret?
Clearly, we can either give some credit to Kakashi, or ignore him. But if we want to be partial based on Kakashi's overall rating, I will say it goes 50-50 that Uchiha came from the Huyaga.
2. Uzumaki x Senju
Similarly to the above, it is well-known that Uzumaki are distant blood relative to Senju. Initially, because we thought that Hagoromo was the father of Yin and Yang, we decided that Uzumaki were paired with Huyaga. However, after analyzing feat among Uzumaki and Senju, and adding recent facts ( Naruto = Ashura, hagoromo = Sun, Hamura = moon), we can conclude that the Uzumaki are not from Hamura. The two possibilities are:
(1) Ashura's descendant were Uzumaki (before Senju) or Hagoromo had two children (Ashura and Another one). However, I doubt Hagoromo had another children who is not mentioned. Thus, Uzumaki and Senju may have come from Ashura.
(2) The Uzumaki were even before Hagoromo.
I will take the first one, and I think Uzumaki are more special that Senjus.
IV. BZ x Uchiha
Assuming that Indra is the child of Hamura, BZ could be a possible explanation of his Sharingan. EVeryone here know that Orochimaru experience curse mark, and can place it on children. We also know that CS has same effect as Sharingan as far as Sasuke goes. Sasuke was going crazy just like a much more powerful Uchiha when he was given the CS + CS has same symbol has the Sharingan.
Could it be that BZ place a CS on Indra's Byakugan to control him or make him powerful for his own purpose. This could have happened without Hagoromo knowing since BZ said Hagoromo did not know everything.
Also, notice that without having Sharingan, BZ has the recording power of the Sharingan. Initially, I thought he had it because of being Madara's will, but he is not.
The issue here is that BZ could have altered Indra's Byakugan since the beginning.
V. Hagoromo again
The last issue is the interpretation of the stone tablet - that is "looking for stability, one god was divided in two". This means Ashura and Indra were given the power of that god intentionally, but not at birth. Who is that god, hagoromo or Kaguya, or Shinju?
This again could explain why Indra had Sharingan rather than Byakugan. Maybe, Hagoromo gave Juubi's eye to Indra and gave Juubi's life force or physical energy to Ashura. This would explain why Ashura Avatar look like a Biju.
In this case, the god that was divided was the Juubi meaning Madara was looking all this time for the Rinnegan that Sasuke has, not the Rinnegan of Hagoromo - that is the Super Sharingan.
VI. Conclusion
These are issues. Your opinion will be appreciated - and I mean an educated opinion, not a fan opinion such as both Naruto and Sasuke are equal, or they are Yin and Yang. The reason is that we are trying to make sense of all the intel given.
I. Hagoromo, Ashura, and Indra
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
As you can see, Indra's power is represented as the crescent moon, Ashura as the Sun (or full moon), and Hagoromo is represented by the sun(full mon) with circles in it. However, if we consider that Hagoromo had Rinnegan, and those circles are nothing but Rinnegan circles, then Hagoromo is represented by the Rinnegan.
My main argument here are these:
Hagoromo : The Sun (moon ) with circle and whatever it represents
Indra : The crescent moon
Ashura : The Sun (or full moon)
Remarks: Hagoromo said he had two sons. BZ did not say Hagoromo had two sons. Rather, BZ said Hagoromo raised Ashura and Indra. It is also weird that Kaguya knew both Ashura and Indra, and characterizes Hagoromo with sun (moon) and Hamura with crescent moon.
So, the issues here are the parental affiliation of Indra and Ashura, and the powers of all four main players (Hagoromo, Hamura, Indra, and Ashura). However, I focus on the distribution of power.
II. Naruto and (Ashura + Hagoromo)
[spiler]
You must be registered for see images
[/spoiler]Now, look at the above pictures of Naruto taken from the manga. I claim that Naruto has three different type of power inside him.
On the left panel, Naruto's shoulder display clearly a differentiating marking compare to everyone who ever obtained Senjutsu of the six paths - that is different from Madara, Obito, and even Rikudo. Madara, Obito, and Rikudo never showed the marking that Naruto has on his shoulder. Clearly, these are the signature of Ashura's power which Naruto even had before meeting Hagoromo just as below.
You must be registered for see images
On the right panel, we have the new effect on Naruto's outfit after meeting Rikudo and being recharged with the chakra of all the Bijus. Here, we have two different markings:
(1) Naruto has the signature of Hagoromo's power
(2) Naruto has the signature of the nine Bijus (or whatever the nine tomoes represents)
(2) Naruto has the signature of the nine Bijus (or whatever the nine tomoes represents)
Now, before you flame, you need to go in (I.) and see that the signature of Hagoromo's power, the concentric circles did not have the nine tomoes below them. This is why I separate these two as two different source of power. Interestingly, it turns out that Hagoromo has the moon sun/full moon marking on his hand while it is inter that Hamura had the crescent moon sign. Thus, as preliminary issue, I could raise this:
ISSUE 1: Ashura is indeed Hagormo's son, and we need more intels to classify Indra.
Moreover, Naruto having the sign of Hagoromo's concentric circles give the following issue:
ISSUE 2: It is possible that Naruto has all Hagoromo's powers because these markings symbolize the power that is inside Naruto, and we know that the concentric circle is the symbol of Hagoromo's powers.
------ Edited 06/20/2014 ---
As I said in the OP, these thread aims at raising issues. This means everyone's idea is welcome, and I am confident that the final conclusion by Kishi will be here. I have noticed that the key question here is why Indra has Sharingan and not Byakugan. Here, I will throw two other points:
III. (Senju x Uzumaki) vs (Huyaga x Uchiha)
1. Huyaga x Uchiha
Most people on fanbases like to discard a very important fact given by Kakashi. See, a character like Kakashi does not open his mouth often, and almost every intel he gave was correct. Kakashi said, and I quote:
"The origin of the Uchiha lays within the Huaga.
Now that we know that Huyaga's ancestor was Kaguya's son, we know that Hamura has children as well. Why did Hagoromo not talk about them? Was he keeping some secret?
Clearly, we can either give some credit to Kakashi, or ignore him. But if we want to be partial based on Kakashi's overall rating, I will say it goes 50-50 that Uchiha came from the Huyaga.
2. Uzumaki x Senju
Similarly to the above, it is well-known that Uzumaki are distant blood relative to Senju. Initially, because we thought that Hagoromo was the father of Yin and Yang, we decided that Uzumaki were paired with Huyaga. However, after analyzing feat among Uzumaki and Senju, and adding recent facts ( Naruto = Ashura, hagoromo = Sun, Hamura = moon), we can conclude that the Uzumaki are not from Hamura. The two possibilities are:
(1) Ashura's descendant were Uzumaki (before Senju) or Hagoromo had two children (Ashura and Another one). However, I doubt Hagoromo had another children who is not mentioned. Thus, Uzumaki and Senju may have come from Ashura.
(2) The Uzumaki were even before Hagoromo.
I will take the first one, and I think Uzumaki are more special that Senjus.
IV. BZ x Uchiha
Assuming that Indra is the child of Hamura, BZ could be a possible explanation of his Sharingan. EVeryone here know that Orochimaru experience curse mark, and can place it on children. We also know that CS has same effect as Sharingan as far as Sasuke goes. Sasuke was going crazy just like a much more powerful Uchiha when he was given the CS + CS has same symbol has the Sharingan.
Could it be that BZ place a CS on Indra's Byakugan to control him or make him powerful for his own purpose. This could have happened without Hagoromo knowing since BZ said Hagoromo did not know everything.
Also, notice that without having Sharingan, BZ has the recording power of the Sharingan. Initially, I thought he had it because of being Madara's will, but he is not.
The issue here is that BZ could have altered Indra's Byakugan since the beginning.
V. Hagoromo again
The last issue is the interpretation of the stone tablet - that is "looking for stability, one god was divided in two". This means Ashura and Indra were given the power of that god intentionally, but not at birth. Who is that god, hagoromo or Kaguya, or Shinju?
This again could explain why Indra had Sharingan rather than Byakugan. Maybe, Hagoromo gave Juubi's eye to Indra and gave Juubi's life force or physical energy to Ashura. This would explain why Ashura Avatar look like a Biju.
In this case, the god that was divided was the Juubi meaning Madara was looking all this time for the Rinnegan that Sasuke has, not the Rinnegan of Hagoromo - that is the Super Sharingan.
VI. Conclusion
These are issues. Your opinion will be appreciated - and I mean an educated opinion, not a fan opinion such as both Naruto and Sasuke are equal, or they are Yin and Yang. The reason is that we are trying to make sense of all the intel given.
Last edited:
