Yet Another Hole In The Uzumaki Theory

[Booker]

That's common sense. We can assume kushina had no knowledge of the sage's lineage, as no naruto-verse character did, while you can assume Kurama's knowledge is valid as he's a thousand year old beast who knew the sage personally and has intimate knowledge of the juubi. He's already proven his intellect.

It doesn't change the fact that Kurama never had any time to view those things.

On top of that, exposition has to be delivered in some shape or form. Kishimoto has done it time and again, where he uses one character to give backstory on another.

And this isn't about The Sage, it's about the Uzumaki. Surely she would know information passed down by her own clan?

 

[Booker]

Indeed, well said.

So Immortal Itachi, I suggest you stop this rant because it only makes you look like an Immortal Butthurt Lol

You have no room to criticize me for Ad Hominem when you are doing it yourself.

Fact is, you never even bothered to attempt to counter my latter two points in my previous argument, so as it stands the theory is wrong.

 

[The Necromancer]

It doesn't change the fact that Kurama never had any time to view those things.

On top of that, exposition has to be delivered in some shape or form. Kishimoto has done it time and again, where he uses one character to give backstory on another.

And this isn't about The Sage, it's about the Uzumaki. Surely she would know information passed down by her own clan?

Why would she? She was what, 5 when she came to the village?

Kurama knows intimately about the different forms of the juubi, when logically he shouldn't as he didn't exist yet. But he does. This alone proves that he can give relatively canonical history.

 

[Booker]

Why would she? She was what, 5 when she came to the village?

Kurama knows intimately about the different forms of the juubi, when logically he shouldn't as he didn't exist yet. But he does. This alone proves that he can give relatively canonical history.

She was taught by Mito? An Elder of the Uzumaki Clan? Kushina obviously had extensive knowledge on her own clan, she even knew their most sacred jutsus.

Then that's poor writing by Kishi that's a huge plothole. How does Kurama know all this information? Lol who cares, he just does, right?

 

[The Necromancer]

She was taught by Mito? An Elder of the Uzumaki Clan? Kushina obviously had extensive knowledge on her own clan, she even knew their most sacred jutsus.

Then that's poor writing by Kishi that's a huge plothole. How does Kurama know all this information? Lol who cares, he just does, right?

Poor writing or not, he does. And you have to accept it.

 

[Booker]

Poor writing or not, he does. And you have to accept it.

Fair enough, but what about the first part of my quote?

 

[3MESSIAH]

You have no room to criticize me for Ad Hominem when you are doing it yourself.

Fact is, you never even bothered to attempt to counter my latter two points in my previous argument, so as it stands the theory is wrong.

this is getting interesting

 

[chopstickchakra]

Failed to understand the thread. Re-read and try again.

No, I understood your thread, you're using a fan theory of the Sage not giving birth to the sons to disprove the sage being an Uzumaki. Seeing as that has no validity as it's based off a fan theory I felt it necessary to point out blood relative does not necessarily mean descendant, it could mean brother. The Sage could have had a 3rd as of yet unmentioned child which was the Uzumaki clan progenitor, thus making the Senju and Uzumaki blood relatives and increasing the odds the sage was Uzumaki.

 

[Booker]

No, I understood your thread, you're using a fan theory of the Sage not giving birth to the sons to disprove the sage being an Uzumaki. Seeing as that has no validity as it's based off a fan theory I felt it necessary to point out blood relative does not necessarily mean descendant, it could mean brother. The Sage could have had a 3rd as of yet unmentioned child which was the Uzumaki clan progenitor, thus making the Senju and Uzumaki blood relatives and increasing the odds the sage was Uzumaki.

Total baseless speculation.

That is a fan theory, and a terrible one at that.

 

[chopstickchakra]

Total baseless speculation.

That is a fan theory, and a terrible one at that.

As is your use of someone else's theory that the sage did not father the elder and younger son rather create them from the yin and yang of the juubi. At least mine isn't borrowed from someone else in a desperate attempt to validate my own beliefs. As I said in my initial post which it's becoming more clear that you didn't understand, I said we can't know until the end of the manga since we can't know whether Kishi has given every detail yet.

We know Kishi doesn't spend much time developing his female cast, we know 3 of 5 Uzumaki mentioned have been female, what's to say the sage did not have a daughter as well?

 

[Booker]

As is your use of someone else's theory that the sage did not father the elder and younger son rather create them from the yin and yang of the juubi. At least mine isn't borrowed from someone else in a desperate attempt to validate my own beliefs. As I said in my initial post which it's becoming more clear that you didn't understand, I said we can't know until the end of the manga since we can't know whether Kishi has given every detail yet.

We know Kishi doesn't spend much time developing his female cast, we know 3 of 5 Uzumaki mentioned have been female, what's to say the sage did not have a daughter as well?

Except I don't believe that. In fact, I was just stating what they believe so I could counter it.

You've got this completely backwards.

 

[Honord Sage]

It's no mystery at this point I'm against the Uzumaki-Sage Theory, and I've just thought of another point against it.

The Senju and Uzumaki are stated to be distant blood relatives.

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Now, UzumakiSage Theorists suggest that the Elder and Younger sons- The Uchiha and Senju, respectively- weren't actual physical sons of The Sage. They suggest that The Sage used Creation of all Things to seperate the Yin and Yang portions of the Juubi to create his two sons, the Younger and Elder. They weren't born of a mother.

However, if The Sage was an Uzumaki and the Uzumaki preceded the Uchiha and Senju, they couldn't possibly be blood relatives, since there wasn't any actual blood connection; they were only created by a jutsu, not by blood relation to the Uzumaki.

The SO6P still use His own DNA in the process,thus the blood relationship.

 

[Booker]

The SO6P still use His own DNA in the process,thus the blood relationship.

Creation of all things uses DNA now?

 

[Honord Sage]

Creation of all things uses DNA now?

Did not Madara add Senju DNA to His Uchiha DNA to get power up? Yes, He did and Senju Uchiha DNA is tied to The SO6P. Even using the power of Yin and Yang, to created a Human you need DNA of a Human, The SO6P Sons as haft Clones of Himself and yin to one and yang to the noter.

 

[Booker]

Did not Madara add Senju DNA to His Uchiha DNA to get power up? Yes, He did and Senju Uchiha DNA is tied to The SO6P. Even using the power of Yin and Yang, to created a Human you need DNA of a Human, The SO6P Sons as haft Clones of Himself and yin to ne sone and yang to a noter.

Ok.

That has nothing to do with Creation of all Things.

 

[Gary777]

Uzumakis got the sealing jutsus tht only sage had ..Not the uchihas ...
Sage must have had two wives possibility thats y the rivalry started ... Coz of inferiority complex

 

[cptenn94]

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distant  
Use Distant in a sentence
dis·tant [dis-tuhnt] Show IPA
adjective
1.
far off or apart in space; not near at hand; remote or removed (often followed by from ): a distant place; a town three miles distant from here.
2.
apart or far off in time: distant centuries past.
3.
remote or far apart in any respect: a distant relative.
4.
reserved or aloof; not familiar or cordial: a distant greeting.
5.
arriving from or going to a distance, as a communication, journey, etc.: I have here a distant letter from Japan.


I think i just soloed your "hole" in the theory.

Tell me. If your mom has a sister and that sister has a kid, is he not related to you? The kid is known as your cousin. Your kids are still related to your cousin just not as closely. Over time your descendents, may continue to recognize your cousins descendants as being related.

This is VERY apparent, and does happen in societies with clans/royalty/tribes. In todays society your bloodline is nothing huge. But go back just 400 years, and bloodlines were still a signifigant thing. Go back 1000 years, and they were even bigger.

Some jews recognize others as being distant relatives.(way back to abraham) They would be part of one of the 12 tribes, and, but would consider their heritage to be a signifigant thing.

In my mind the only way the uzumaki would be younger son related, is if they were split very close to the younger son.

Because the uzumaki ARE DISTANTLY related. So that means they are (see above) FAR APART.

A reason why the uchiha dont also claim distant relations(going under the assumption that the sages clan became the uzumakis), is because after the sage chooseing the younger son, and the fight, the elder son wanted nothing to do with the family. The only thing they might have done was claimed to be sages descendants, due to respect for him and his vast power.

Kishi is a user of japanese mythology in his manga. Derp obito has made a good case useing this mythology. The mythology points to parrellels to the sages clan and the uzumakis.(and naruto as well) more recently he even had some geological similarities to the naruto world. NOt saying hes right or wrong, but his theories use a different type of support(useing mythology as a point instead of JUST manga quotes)


To conclude with my opinion. I think there is a VERY reasonable chance the sages clan became the uzumaki. I really dont get why people are so enraged over that possibility. As far as we know the sages clan never possesed anything special or op. Only the sages mom and the sages descendants, had the op bloodline.



I dont ever make any predictions, or believe any theory fully, because if i believe a theory such as "tobi is izuna" and believe it 100% I will get mad at kishi for makeing him obito. If i just consider the possibilities, and just ignore the near impossible(tobi is sasuke from the future) then I wont be dissappointed. I will believe certain things that are REALLY heavily forshadowed(such as the edo hokages, bijuu sage mode, etc) but not stuff like the uzumakis clans origins.

Can someone explain to me as to why it is so important for the uzumakis to have been split from the senju clan? I mean seriously.

Is it something that makes you feel bigger stronger more powerful or better? Are you that desperate to be right to help your ego?

Its not like this uzumaki theory has any hard counters to it(IE someone saying "The uzumaki are descended from the younger son of the sage" THAT would be nearly 100% conclusive evidence. But yet we have not gotten that evidence yet.

Im sure later in the manga kishi will clarify it. IM sure that madara will be revealed as causeing the uzumakis to be destroyed.

Anyways. To put it bluntly i neither confirm nor deny the various ideas/thoughts of where the uzumakis came from. There has not been enough conclusive clear evidence to draw a good conclusion. If the manga ends without expanding anymore on it and the databook doesnt explain any more then, is should be assumed the uzumakis were descendants of the younger son. Until then though, there just isnt enough evidence comeing from multiple sources.

 

[Kronnic]

Show me a manga scan that said that he used Creation of all things to create his two sons!!!!
Manga said that he used it to create the 9 tailed beasts not his two sons...