Not only zetsu, but kishi explained it to us through the databook.
Lol You're using the wiki as evidence!? Wiki is pure assumption unless sourced & proven to be true with manga scans. The wiki states that madara/obito/nagato possess all 5 nature manipulations yet is that true? Of course not as its not been confirmed. The wiki is unreliable so simply taking its word as proof is no different than using fanfiction as support.
So basically you still lack a scan which states that yata is only endowed with the nature manipulations, you're basing your evidence off of the wiki which literally holds no credibility in this case, sorry.
Lol again. First of all that statement was contradicted & proven to be hyperbole when a single stroke did NOT destroy the universe, feats > hype. Furthermore kishi did not state this in a databook entry, or in any specific interview, they were madara's words. Also going by madara's logic the bijuu should also have this power, but has a bijuu ever destroyed the universe with sheer power? Didnt think so.
Impossible, sure CoAT could produce a weapon that would break yata, but yata will change & break the weapon in turn. & since yata has no physical form, technically it can get destroyed & reform as many times as it needs to.
Therefore an "anti-yata" weapon will do nothing except destroy both the weapon & the shield's physical form, however the shield simply reforms itself because it doesnt actually exist in the physical world, hence having no physical presence.
Fair enough, so the Databook is the absolute judge right?
According to the databook, Kamui is unstoppable and no defense works against it. This would include Yata since Yata counts as a defense. It also says that there is no technique that can compete with it.
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PS sword? Well, nothing was contradicted. Madara has a habit of holding back in excess. It was stated that the sword has the power to destroy the universe, not that it automatically will every single time it is swung.
Goku could easily destory the earth but that doesn't mean that every attack that lands does.
Heck, even the villains of DBZ concentrate their attacks to prevent the earth from being destroyed since they prefer to torture their opponents mentally before ending everything( e.g Cell)
Moral of the story, Madara has no reason to unleash the complete PS sword's force since it would probably destroy him in the process and he still needs the moon to be there for Infinite Tsukuyomi.
Regarding the statement about the Bijuu. The Bijuu can end the universe via unlocking the Shinju as they are the key to unlocking the Juubi, which in turn is the Key to the Shinju, a god that can easily end all of creation.
Nothing was contradicted.
How was Yata created? COAT could just create a time traveling wormhole, go back in time, and then allow the jutsu caster to prevent Yata from ever existing in the first place. Yata can't defend if it didn't exist.
Lel just lel I mean if Yata is un breakable we as well considr haku light speed or that naruto and sasuke are planet busters since they beat obito's sword which supposedly "created the world" does the word hyperbole occur to you! Yoyu chat state something and make it true just cause
Or else I could say "Naruto can travel the whole world 3 times and you can't prove me wrong so I'm right!" Especially when the burden of proof is on who made the claim
It has been stated that yata has no limits. It is a confirmed fact, the only way to prove it wrong is to prove it can be contradicted, which is impossible.
Bullcrap the burden of proof on the positive claim or else I could say "Madara is a universe buster because the manga says so and you can't prove me wrong!" When common sense says :"He hasn't shown it so it's wank"
Not only that but kishi has given us multiple chances to show us yata's so-called limits yet he hasnt.
Again burden of proof is the positive claim you prove it's invincible or I walk
Btw that argument is in regards to differing universes, by your logic kishi doesnt know the limits of his own characters. & if such were the case then all vs threads are redundant because kishi would never be correct, so the manga would never be correct.....
Do not portray yourself incompetent. It negates any attack attempting to breech the shield...obviously, you cannot use Genjutsu on 'a shield' as it has no chakra system or brain to manipulate.
@ Senju Bean: It isn't a discrepancy but both Yata no Kagami's hype and Kamui's hype have been proven and remain true. You have to be attuned with the workings of the jutsu. Yata no Kagami is a shield, and as a shield guards and negates against any offences attempting to breach it's defenses. Kamui isn't an 'offence' but is a curvature of Space and time around the desired target----rivaling a hypothetical wormhole. It wouldn't be breaching the shields defenses but relocating it entirely.
Do not portray yourself incompetent. It negates any attack attempting to breech the shield...obviously, you cannot use Genjutsu on 'a shield' as it has no chakra system or brain to manipulate.
@ Senju Bean: It isn't a discrepancy but both Yata no Kagami's hype and Kamui's hype have been proven and remain true. You have to be attuned with the workings of the jutsu. Yata no Kagami is a shield, and as a shield guards and negates against any offences attempting to breach it's defenses. Kamui isn't an 'offence' but is a curvature of Space and time around the desired target----rivaling a hypothetical wormhole. It wouldn't be breaching the shields defenses but relocating it.
In this case, Yata doesn't not make the user invincible. Kamui on the other hand, is simply unstoppable once the barrier has been set up. Well, only Izanagi/COAT can be used as a counter. But nothing else.
Zetsu was only speaking in context of Itachi possessing the spiritual weapons. Itachi having limits on things such as chakra and stamina contradicts invincibility.
The time required for Itachi to surface the Complete Susano'o and much more for the weapons to materialize on the physical realm already shows that Itachi didn't block Kirin with the Yata mirror.
Fair enough, so the Databook is the absolute judge right?
According to the databook, Kamui is unstoppable and no defense works against it. This would include Yata since Yata counts as a defense. It also says that there is no technique that can compete with it.
Kamui blocked kamui, therefore that statement has been contradicted. When kishi wrote it he obviously didnt include the jutsu itself in the list, that would make no sense.
Kamui can be blocked by kamui, therefore it can be blocked. As I said you still lack any form of proof which puts yata in a position where it can be contradicted like this, so saying it can be shattered is nothing but pure assumption.
PS sword? Well, nothing was contradicted. Madara has a habit of holding back in excess. It was stated that the sword has the power to destroy the universe, not that it automatically will every single time it is swung.
Lel Please tell me more about how madara held back against hashirama...
Goku could easily destory the earth but that doesn't mean that every attack that lands does.
Heck, even the villains of DBZ concentrate their attacks to prevent the earth from being destroyed since they prefer to torture their opponents mentally before ending everything( e.g Cell)
Lmfao in this quote you just compared the juubi to goku..
The juubi has shown what it can do multiple times, & it has no reason to hold its power back because it has
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, it is a
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. The juubi would have easily destroyed a chunk of the earth in [
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] if it had the power to do so, unless you have an excuse as to why the juubi (who can't be killed) would choose to keep half the planet around.
Kurama explains what the juubi does, it swallows oceans, splits land, carries mountains, what do these all have in common? Oh yeah they're all of the planet.
This debunks your entire rebuttal. & To reinforce my point, the juubi was once a tree that resided on the planet, to say that it has powers which exceeds that of the planet is false & contradicts what kurama has stated. Therefore if the juubi can't destroy the planet then what makes you think the bijuu/susanoo can destroy it, let alone the entire universe?!
Moral of the story, Madara has no reason to unleash the complete PS sword's force since it would probably destroy him in the process and he still needs the moon to be there for Infinite Tsukuyomi.
He has no reason to unleash his full power against his life long rival in a battle to the death? Okay then believe what you want...Lol
Regarding the statement about the Bijuu. The Bijuu can end the universe via unlocking the Shinju as they are the key to unlocking the Juubi, which in turn is the Key to the Shinju, a god that can easily end all of creation.
This guy.... Thinks madara can destroy the universe, despite feats showing otherwise, lel..
How was Yata created? COAT could just create a time traveling wormhole, go back in time, and then allow the jutsu caster to prevent Yata from ever existing in the first place. Yata can't defend if it didn't exist.
Lel just lel I mean if Yata is un breakable we as well considr haku light speed or that naruto and sasuke are planet busters since they beat obito's sword which supposedly "created the world" does the word hyperbole occur to you! Yoyu chat state something and make it true just cause
Or else I could say "Naruto can travel the whole world 3 times and you can't prove me wrong so I'm right!" Especially when the burden of proof is on who made the claim
Naruto enhanced sasuke's sword with senjutsu which was already proven to be strong against onmyoudon. Laughable to assume based on that logic that they can destroy the world.
& Haku can move at lightspeed while using demonic mirror, it has been proven (had to find the scans).
Bullcrap the burden of proof on the positive claim or else I could say "Madara is a universe buster because the manga says so and you can't prove me wrong!" When common sense says :"He hasn't shown it so it's wank"
Btw I was referring to having edo itachi use yata & have it shatter against one of kabuto's jutsus or even one of nagato's, kishi gave us no more feats to go off of.
Again burden of proof is the positive claim you prove it's invincible or I walk
Speculation & wank? Lmfao stating that yata can break is nothing more than speculation wank. The proof says that it can't break, the proof was written by kishi himself. Stop ignoring the facts & making up your own, yata cannot be broken going by what has been stated & what has been shown.
You're the one telling me to use common sense when speaking of a magical, spiritual, legendary weapon with no physical form? Common sense obviously doesnt apply here as yata is no ordinary weapon.
Draphsin. Databook is databook is it not. Of course the perfect technique can stop the perfect technique. An unstoppable force meets an immovable object, what happens?, well thats when Kamui meets Kamui.
Gone full retard? Please, we are both adults, let's not resort to petty name calling.
If someone wants to use COAT against a Yata user, there is nothing the Yata user can do if COAT erases Yata from existing, which is my point in the first place. If Yata is truly unstoppable in every and any sense , it can protact the user against time travel.
You fail to understand my point. I'm not saying Madara is a planet buster. There was plenty of sarcasim within my post. I'm saying that it was nowhere in the manga that contradicted Madara's statement since all it said was that his sword can, and I repeat, can destroy the universe. It was never shown that he attempted to. It doesn't matter if it doens't make sense that he wouldn't hold back against Hashirama. All that matters is PS can destroy the universe and for some reason, it just didn't use this ability against Hashi. Just like how Itachi forgot to use Yata against Nagato's CT or forgot to use Yata against Kabuto.
You see, two can play at this game. If you want manga/database proof every time without reasoning logically, then I can say it works for any case where a statement is made. i.e Madara being a universe destroyer, no matter how ridiculous it sounds.
Oh yeah, about the Bijuu. They can't destory the universe, but the Shinju can, since the Shinju created it. All the Bijuu together are essentially the Shinju in a different, weaker state.
Draphsin. Databook is databook is it not. Of course the perfect technique can stop the perfect technique. An unstoppable force meets an immovable object, what happens?, well thats when Kamui meets Kamui.
And going by the DB yata can alter its properties in order to render any attack ineffective, tell me what's stopping yata from changing its porperties to match that of kamui in order to nullify it like obito did? Nothing is except for your belief.
The fact that kamui was blocked means that yata can block it as well.
Gone full retard? Please, we are both adults, let's not resort to petty name calling.
If someone wants to use COAT against a Yata user, there is nothing the Yata user can do if COAT erases Yata from existing, which is my point in the first place. If Yata is truly unstoppable in every and any sense , it can protact the user against time travel.
That doesnt even make sense, do you always debate like this? or is it because your back is against the wall? Lol anyways, you can't defend against time travel as its not even an attack. You arent directly or even indirectly attacking ythe mirror so what the databook states does not apply. The fact that you even brought this up speaks volumes about what you actually know...
You fail to understand my point. I'm not saying Madara is a planet buster. There was plenty of sarcasim within my post. I'm saying that it was nowhere in the manga that contradicted Madara's statement since all it said was that his sword can, and I repeat, can destroy the universe. It was never shown that he attempted to. It doesn't matter if it doens't make sense that he wouldn't hold back against Hashirama. All that matters is PS can destroy the universe and for some reason, it just didn't use this ability against Hashi. Just like how Itachi forgot to use Yata against Nagato's CT or forgot to use Yata against Kabuto.
False as it has been contradicted, so stop being ignorant.
The juubi can't destroy the planet, so saying susanoo can is laughable & would mean that you think susanoo >>> Juubi based on hype when feats show us otherwise.
Please dont use flawed arguments such as this & I wont have to resort to the name calling.
You see, two can play at this game. If you want manga/database proof every time without reasoning logically, then I can say it works for any case where a statement is made. i.e Madara being a universe destroyer, no matter how ridiculous it sounds.
You are AGAIN stating something that has been contradicted.
Oh yeah, about the Bijuu. They can't destory the universe, but the Shinju can, since the Shinju created it. All the Bijuu together are essentially the Shinju in a different, weaker state.
& now you're twisting madara's statement to help support your flawed argument....Oh jeez....
Madara said that his power rivals the BIJUU, not the JUUBI. If madara was referring to the bijuu as a part of the juubi then he would've said the juubi. Yet he said the bijuu, his susanoo rivals the bijuu who are their own entities with their own levels of power.
Man, your ignorance is astounding & you're even trying to turn madara's words against me.
Kamui was never blocked. Show me a scan where Kamui as blocked. Kakashi tried to Kamui the Mazou but Obito Kamui'ed it first. That is not blocking as the Mazou was already in the Kamui dimension as the barrier was being created. Kakashi used Kamui on Obito and guess what? It worked, Obito was sent to the Kamui dimension. So.. Kamui can't be stopped. Databook is correct.
Look, I don't want to debate all day on what constitutes an attack ok? Oh cares if it's not an attack? Whatever time travel truly is, an attack, an idea, a hot dog, ice cream, whatever, Yata isn't stopping it.
Let's drop the Madara thing ok, it's getting nowhere. It was stated that it has an ability to destory the universe. Show me a manga scan that shows he attempted but failed. can't. I'm using your logic, however flawed. If you can't show the scan, then it must be true.
The bijuu?, fine I'll let you have this one. Not that it matters, I've shown that Kamui lives up to databook hype.
Kamui was never blocked. Show me a scan where Kamui as blocked. Kakashi tried to Kamui the Mazou but Obito Kamui'ed it first. That is not blocking as the Mazou was already in the Kamui dimension as the barrier was being created. Kakashi used Kamui on Obito and guess what? It worked, Obito was sent to the Kamui dimension. So.. Kamui can't be stopped. Databook is correct.
Did kakashi kamui the mazou? No, so kamui was blocked, end of story.
Look, I don't want to debate all day on what constitutes an attack ok? Oh cares if it's not an attack? Whatever time travel truly is, an attack, an idea, a hot dog, ice cream, whatever, Yata isn't stopping it.
Lol Yata doesnt stop words, you know why? because words are not an attack! If someone were to travel back in time then that is not affecting the mirror but rather its affecting the person travelling through time.
Stop posting nonsense, yata blocks attacks, not forms of travel.
Let's drop the Madara thing ok, it's getting nowhere. It was stated that it has an ability to destory the universe. Show me a manga scan that shows he attempted but failed. can't. I'm using your logic, however flawed. If you can't show the scan, then it must be true.
Again the manga has contradicted this statement so i dont need to show you such a scan, if madara's statement was never contradicted then that logic would apply, however this is not the case.
SHow me any sort of scan or implication which suggests that yata can be contradicted, not broken/bypassed, but contradicted, in any way/shape or form.
There is no contradiction, so there is nothing to argue, you are simply denying facts.
The bijuu?, fine I'll let you have this one. Not that it matters, I've shown that Kamui lives up to databook hype.
Wrong, kamui blocked kamui from warping the gedo away, therefore it can be stopped. If kamui can be stopped then yata can stop it, as it hasnt been contradicted.
Did kakashi kamui the mazou? No, so kamui was blocked, end of story.
Lol Yata doesnt stop words, you know why? because words are not an attack! If someone were to travel back in time then that is not affecting the mirror but rather its affecting the person travelling through time.
Stop posting nonsense, yata blocks attacks, not forms of travel.
Lol flawed logic, I'm merely presenting facts.
Again the manga has contradicted this statement so i dont need to show you such a scan, if madara's statement was never contradicted then that logic would apply, however this is not the case.
SHow me any sort of scan or implication which suggests that yata can be contradicted, not broken/bypassed, but contradicted, in any was/shape or form.
There is no contradiction, so there is nothing to argue, you are simply denying facts.
Wrong, kamui blocked kamui from warping the gedo away, therefore it can be stopped. If kamui can be stopped then yata can stop it, as it hasnt been contradicted.
Kamui wasn't stopped as there is nothing to use it on. The Mazou wasn't even there.
Ok as long as you admit that Yata doesn't make the user completely invincible( from attacks or not), during it's alloted battery life( i.e users stamina), then that is good enough for me.
Ok show me absolute proof from the manga, not logical arguments, but manga only, that Madara's sword doesn't have the ability to destroy the universe. Remember, just because Goku didn't destroy the earth doesn't mean that he can't.
Like I said, it's not that Kamui didn't work, it's that there was nothing to Kamui in the first place. Here is some food for thought: you can argue that Kamui did work since Kamui actually did send the Mazou to the other dimension, it just happened earlier than we thought it would have.
And I did show you a scan about how Yata can be stopped. The databook scan clearly states that nothing can defend against Kamui. That is implication enough.
Ok as long as you admit that Yata doesn't make the user completely invincible( from attacks or not), during it's alloted battery life( i.e users stamina), then that is good enough for me.
No attack is getting through yata mirror, time travelling isnt even possible. If this is what you consider me "admitting" anything then show me where I stated that Itachi is invincible. You need to fact check because I said that yata nullifies all attacks & that has been my argument for this entire thread. You saying that someone can time travel & stop yata from being created has literally no relevance to my point.
Ok show me absolute proof from the manga, not logical arguments, but manga only, that Madara's sword doesn't have the ability to destroy the universe. Remember, just because Goku didn't destroy the earth doesn't mean that he can't.
In that same statement madara compared his susanoo to the bijuu, I proved to you that the juubi can't even destroy the earth so the bijuu can't either. By madara's logic, the bijuu can destroy the universe so this is proof that madara was lying & his statement was simply hyperbole.
Like I said, it's not that Kamui didn't work, it's that there was nothing to Kamui in the first place. Here is some food for thought: you can argue that Kamui did work since Kamui actually did send the Mazou to the other dimension, it just happened earlier than we thought it would have.
I have no idea where this is even coming from..Obito stopped kakashi's kamui as I already showed, now enough of this.
And I did show you a scan about how Yata can be stopped. The databook scan clearly states that nothing can defend against Kamui. That is implication enough.
The databook never said anything about being able to defend against itself, therefore the entire entry regarding kamui is false. It has been contradicted as kamui has been nullified. & You have not shown me anything which states or implies that yata can be stopped.
No attack is getting through yata mirror, time travelling isnt even possible. If this is what you consider me "admitting" anything then show me where I stated that Itachi is invincible. You need to fact check because I said that yata nullifies all attacks & that has been my argument for this entire thread. You saying that someone can time travel & stop yata from being created has literally no relevance to my point.
In that same statement madara compared his susanoo to the bijuu, I proved to you that the juubi can't even destroy the earth so the bijuu can't either. By madara's logic, the bijuu can destroy the universe so this is proof that madara was lying & his statement was simply hyperbole.
I have no idea where this is even coming from..Obito stopped kakashi's kamui as I already showed, now enough of this.
The databook never said anything about being able to defend against itself, therefore the entire entry regarding kamui is false. It has been contradicted as kamui has been nullified. & You have not shown me anything which states or implies that yata can be stopped.
Let me make it more clear, before Kakashi even set up the barrier, Obito used Kamui to teleport the Mazou away. This is a round about way to avoiding the attack but it doesn't stop it was the attack since the attack was not even aimed. But fine, let's assume this functions as some sort of block. Well what do you expect? One occured first. It's like saying that Yata loses to Tsukuyomi when Tsukuyomi is used to prevent the user from taking out Yata.
You are saying that if Yata is there then it will block the attack no matter what.
I am saying that if the object is there, then Kamui will work no matter what.
The mazou isn't there. Of course Kamui wouldn't work.
Just like Yata wouldn't work if the user is prevented from taking it out.
Obito removed the Mazou as a preventative measure against Kamui.
Just like how Itachi can be killed as a preventative measure against Yata.
It's the same exact thing. Please tell me how is it different.
If an unstoppable force meets Yata, what happens?, please explain.
