WTF is Substitution Jutsu? Can it be used as a feat?

[Drakengard]

This jutsu makes no sense to me.

The first instance of this jutsu occurred in the first volume:

Spoiler

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Here, it's ambiguous whether Kakashi simply had enough speed to escape Naruto's grasp and replace himself with a clone (which seems unlikely) or utilized some teleportation dynamic. If it's really teleportation, that's something on the level of Sasuke's Amenotejikara. And it's being written off as a fodder technique?

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Two more early examples of the jutsu:

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-Later-​

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It seemed like Sakura needed hand seals to perform the jutsu, but that's probably due to her lower skill level. We already know that you can shorten the number of required seals if you're skilled enough. In the image above, it doesn't look like Kakashi should have been able to perform said seals, so it's safe to assume that they're not needed for top tier battles.

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Now here's one example that may or may not have been a substitution jutsu.

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-Later-​

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I don't know how Gaara could have possible escaped from that without some teleportation jutsu. He certainly doesn't have the foot speed to achieve that, not to mention the fact that he's in midair. Continuing from this point, why did Lee's hesitation allow Gaara to use substitution? What stops him from replacing his body in the middle of the lotus?

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These are all Part I feats. You may argue that it's best to ignore them by claiming that Kishi didn't really know where the combat system was leading at that point. However, the jutsu does leech its way into Part II as well.

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Now we're entering the realm of Kage level battles. I thought this was meant to be a weak, subGenin jutsu?

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It seems to me like the substitution jutsu is a cheap plot tool. From a literary standpoint, it's just so boring... at least a nonsense clone feint can be somewhat plausible. Now, how do you take this from a feats standpoint? How does this jutsu work, and can these accounts really be used as feats?

 

[Retsu]

It's just a really fast dodge combined with the subterfuge of a log. It's not used in part 2 because the ninja are more skilled. My opinion on it anyway.

 

[Anbu Knights]

I strongly believe substitution jutsu is a literary device lmao.

 

[Drakengard]

It's just a really fast dodge combined with the subterfuge of a log. It's not used in part 2 because the ninja are more skilled. My opinion on it anyway.

So you mean dodging with actual movement as opposed to teleportation? I'm just confused how that's even possible in scenarios like the Jiraiya vs. Animal Path image shown, where the path was noticeably constrained.

I strongly believe substitution jutsu is a literary device lmao.

I feel that most clone feints serve the same purpose but are at least somewhat believable. At least the manga doesn't abuse it on the level of the anime... holy ****. Both of these make it hard for me to take some of the fights seriously :hmm:

 

[Retsu]

So you mean dodging with actual movement as opposed to teleportation? I'm just confused how that's even possible in scenarios like the Jiraiya vs. Animal Path image shown, where the path was noticeably constrained.

I feel that most clone feints serve the same purpose but are at least somewhat believable. At least the manga doesn't abuse it on the level of the anime... holy ****. Both of these make it hard for me to take some of the fights seriously :hmm:

Don't look so hard into it. Combat and the feats that entail in this manga are inconsistent at best

 

[FemmeFatale]

Sakura has shown the Highest level substitution beside orochimaru, as she was actually teleporting with logs according to the manga scan explaining how the jutsu works

 

[chopstickchakra]

This jutsu makes no sense to me.

The first instance of this jutsu occurred in the first volume:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Here, it's ambiguous whether Kakashi simply had enough speed to escape Naruto's grasp and replace himself with a clone (which seems unlikely) or utilized some teleportation dynamic. If it's really teleportation, that's something on the level of Sasuke's Amenotejikara. And it's being written off as a fodder technique?

-------------------------------------------

Two more early examples of the jutsu:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

-Later-​

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

It seemed like Sakura needed hand seals to perform the jutsu, but that's probably due to her lower skill level. We already know that you can shorten the number of required seals if you're skilled enough. In the image above, it doesn't look like Kakashi should have been able to perform said seals, so it's safe to assume that they're not needed for top tier battles.

--------------------------------

Now here's one example that may or may not have been a substitution jutsu.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

-Later-​

You must be registered for see images

I don't know how Gaara could have possible escaped from that without some teleportation jutsu. He certainly doesn't have the foot speed to achieve that, not to mention the fact that he's in midair. Continuing from this point, why did Lee's hesitation allow Gaara to use substitution? What stops him from replacing his body in the middle of the lotus?

-------------------------------

These are all Part I feats. You may argue that it's best to ignore them by claiming that Kishi didn't really know where the combat system was leading at that point. However, the jutsu does leech its way into Part II as well.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Now we're entering the realm of Kage level battles. I thought this was meant to be a weak, subGenin jutsu?

------------------------------

It seems to me like the substitution jutsu is a cheap plot tool. From a literary standpoint, it's just so boring... at least a nonsense clone feint can be somewhat plausible. Now, how do you take this from a feats standpoint? How does this jutsu work, and can these accounts really be used as feats?

It's just a really fast dodge combined with the subterfuge of a log. It's not used in part 2 because the ninja are more skilled. My opinion on it anyway.

This,I think it can only be used on certain opponents whose reactions you can move faster than. Idk.

 

[salamander uchiha]

It's essentially a summoning of an object while flickering out. My guess the object is marked before hand with some seal or something. Some use shadow clones etc. Itachi uses crows to distract the op. It sort of acts as a mini shield to block techs at base level.

 

[Drakengard]

It's essentially a summoning of an object while flickering out. My guess the object is marked before hand with some seal or something. Some use shadow clones etc. Itachi uses crows to distract the op. It sort of acts as a mini shield to block techs at base level.

So it's like a combination of FTG and Amenotejikara (FTG due to needing seals and Amenotejikara for replacement)? Is there any reason it couldn't work against more powerful techniques? What I'm trying to get at is that these are pretty awesome tools for these characters in VS debates if we consider them legitimate techniques.

 

[salamander uchiha]

So it's like a combination of FTG and Amenotejikara (FTG due to needing seals and Amenotejikara for replacement)? Is there any reason it couldn't work against more powerful techniques? What I'm trying to get at is that these are pretty awesome tools for these characters in VS debates if we consider them legitimate techniques.

No its like a replacement in your place likely marked or sealed object being unsealed then using the distraction to body flicker away. I think it's quite a cool skill but everybody can use it and you could have an unlimited amount of body flicker shifts and battles wouldn't progress. Personally I think it should've been a c rank technique or above because it's quite strong.
Also I think there's a limit to range and use and eventually your opponents will catch on. It's a low rank tech for a reason.

 

[Retsu]

So it's like a combination of FTG and Amenotejikara (FTG due to needing seals and Amenotejikara for replacement)? Is there any reason it couldn't work against more powerful techniques? What I'm trying to get at is that these are pretty awesome tools for these characters in VS debates if we consider them legitimate techniques.

Don't listen to the fanfic, it's not teleportation or s/t related AT ALL. when have we ever seen an object marked for substitution jutsu ever in the entirety of the manga? Dudes pulling facts from his arse.

 

[Drakengard]

No its like a replacement in your place likely marked or sealed object being unsealed then using the distraction to body flicker away. I think it's quite a cool skill but everybody can use it and you could have an unlimited amount of body flicker shifts and battles wouldn't progress. Personally I think it should've been a c rank technique or above because it's quite strong.
Also I think there's a limit to range and use and eventually your opponents will catch on. It's a low rank tech for a reason.

Don't listen to the fanfic, it's not teleportation or s/t related AT ALL. when have we ever seen an object marked for substitution jutsu ever in the entirety of the manga? Dudes pulling facts from his arse.

Yo guys I'm not trying to start world war III here or anything, just looking for some clarification. I'm fairly certain that the jutsu is entirely plot based, I'm just curious how debaters are meant to look at it. Feats are highly valuable in VS debates, so it would seem odd to pick and choose what abilities they're able to use.

One thing I'd like to point out about the jutsu... consider the Kakashi example shown above. He had been walking with Team 7 on that road for a good distance past Konoha. I don't see how he could have a decent sized log already prepared for substitution near him.

 

[Jinrou]

The most hax tech in NV until Kishi decided to make it Sasuke exclusive in the form of ameno xD

 

[salamander uchiha]

The most hax tech in NV until Kishi decided to make it Sasuke exclusive in the form of ameno xD

Ameno's a little more complex and requires a charge time we can't have Sasuke being too overpowered.

 

[Retsu]

Yo guys I'm not trying to start world war III here or anything, just looking for some clarification. I'm fairly certain that the jutsu is entirely plot based, I'm just curious how debaters are meant to look at it. Feats are highly valuable in VS debates, so it would seem odd to pick and choose what abilities they're able to use.

One thing I'd like to point out about the jutsu... consider the Kakashi example shown above. He had been walking with Team 7 on that road for a good distance past Konoha. I don't see how he could have a decent sized log already prepared for substitution near him.

Just don't want you basing anything off of hogwash, it's merely replacing your body with a substitute the second before an attack lands. Other dude is basing his theory off of pure speculation. Once again it is plot based hence why it isn't hardly used anymore. It's low rank so it's safe to assume that unless one character heavily outclassed the other in speed, it could rarely be used successfully in high level combat.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Just don't want you basing anything off of hogwash, it's merely replacing your body with a substitute the second before an attack lands. Other dude is basing his theory off of pure speculation. Once again it is plot based hence why it isn't hardly used anymore. It's low rank so it's safe to assume that unless one character heavily outclassed the other in speed, it could rarely be used successfully in high level combat.

Where does the piece of wood come from?

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Jiraiya vs Pain was a kage level fight if not higher and amenotejakra is an instantaneous jump where as substitution is not.

 

[Warlocks]

substitution was too op and it was even more useful then ijanagi :lol cuz u can use ijanagi 1 time


i still think substitution= teleportation+genjutsu

 

[Luminousi]

I think after Kishi introduced it he realized how broken it was and just kind of hoped everyone would forget about it.