Wouldn't the manga have made more sense if

[Angelic.]

It would have more sense if those Madara, obito and Kaguya never introduced. The man in the mask is a random guy whos uses the name of madara but the body of Obito.

wut. that would be so boring and bad.

 

[uchihamad]

wut. that would be so boring and bad.

but sensible

 

[Orochimagus]

Moon's eye was never objectively bad? Madara's version and even Obito's are objectively bad. Your train of reasoning can be used for the Pein riders who say that Madara didn't need to come back and the series could have ended fine there. It can be used for Obito riders saying we didn't need Madara to come back and the story would have resolved better with Obito as final villain. Hell, even us Orochimaru lap riders could say that the series was best back in part 1 where Orochimaru was top villain and that we didn't need to revive Madara to continue the story.

Thing is, Madara's plan on returning was stupid and horribly executed. He would not have come back without Kabuto and Black Zetsu since Obito didn't like Madara to begin with. A villain with such a reckless plan was not cut out for final villain material so an explanation was needed.

Why would we need to know why Kaguya needs Zetsu army since we already know she aspires for power? What sort of villain wouldn't like a world under their control? It is not about the need for the might of the army itself but the control aspect of it. Obviously Kaguya's power was so much that she didn't need them to fight for her.

 

[MAN OF SIN]

Moon's eye was never objectively bad? Madara's version and even Obito's are objectively bad. Your train of reasoning can be used for the Pein riders who say that Madara didn't need to come back and the series could have ended fine there. It can be used for Obito riders saying we didn't need Madara to come back and the story would have resolved better with Obito as final villain. Hell, even us Orochimaru lap riders could say that the series was best back in part 1 where Orochimaru was top villain and that we didn't need to revive Madara to continue the story.

Thing is, Madara's plan on returning was stupid and horribly executed. He would not have come back without Kabuto and Black Zetsu since Obito didn't like Madara to begin with. A villain with such a reckless plan was not cut out for final villain material so an explanation was needed.

Why would we need to know why Kaguya needs Zetsu army since we already know she aspires for power? What sort of villain wouldn't like a world under their control? It is not about the need for the might of the army itself but the control aspect of it. Obviously Kaguya's power was so much that she didn't need them to fight for her.

No it wasn't objectively bad when realize that it would have stopped pestilence, war, famine, and death while making everyone happy for an eternality. Or do you think human extinction is better? That's why much of the fanbase didn't see it as bad. Click the link below.

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Now say that it was objectively bad again. Come on, I want to hear your counter-argument.

Black Zetsu they needed to fight some battle. But it was never explained.

 

[Seventh Sama]

No it wasn't objectively bad when realize that it would have stopped pestilence, war, famine, and death while making everyone happy for an eternality. Or do you think human extinction is better? That's why much of the fanbase didn't see it as bad. Click the link below.

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Now say that it was objectively bad again. Come on, I want to hear your counter-argument.

Black Zetsu they needed to fight some battle. But it was never explained.

That's like saying being in the matrix is a good idea.

 

[MAN OF SIN]

That's like saying being in the matrix is a good idea.

The Matrix didn't feature a paradise world or immorality like MT. And by the end of series some people choose to be in it.

 

[Orochimagus]

That's no different than the Communism pitch, Sin. Giving up personal freedom for security. It doesn't matter if some people did not see it as bad if Naruto and near everyone else in the Naruto world saw it as bad. Let's use your very logic here: Turning everyone into White Zetsu would stop pestilence, war, famine, death and even the need to POO while making everyone as happy as a White Zetsu. Both are objectively wrong because freedom is lot in both cases.

Upon looking on the wiki...

Nothing on the wiki for Black Zetsu making such a claim, which would be something pretty important to add. I'll check Kaguya.

Looking like a bad translation, nothing on the Kaguya thing.

In contrast to the need to use the White Zetsu as an army for battle, the Wiki states she wanted them for peace:

As time passed, however, Kaguya began to lose trust in humanity as the power ultimately corrupted her. This led to her into madness as she created her ideal peace by trapping her victims in the Infinite Tsukuyomi and convert them into White Zetsu, which would change her public image of a benevolent goddess into that of a Demon (鬼, Oni).

I guess this means Kaguya's plan was inherently good since White Zetsu look pretty darn happy.

Oh and Madara could not explain the origins of the Byakugan and Kimimaro's clan...Nothing a middle-ground latecomer can do to replace the real baddie:

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[ᖇ α z m α η]

They wouldn't have been able to defeat Lord Madara .​

 

[MAN OF SIN]

That's no different than the Communism pitch, Sin. Giving up personal freedom for security. It doesn't matter if some people did not see it as bad if Naruto and near everyone else in the Naruto world saw it as bad. Let's use your very logic here: Turning everyone into White Zetsu would stop pestilence, war, famine, death and even the need to POO while making everyone as happy as a White Zetsu. Both are objectively wrong because freedom is lot in both cases.

Barely anyone knew what Infinite Tsukuyomi was, besides it being a global Genjutsu. Only Naruto and Sasuke about the dreams and the tree giving people it's life energy, via Hagoromo. Imagined if the world truly knew what Madara plan was. There would be a divide like with the fanbase. That's why Kishi had them in the dark about it. Lol

The Zetsu were going to be used for a battle. So how would Kaguya's plan stop pestilence(no evidence that Zetsu are immune to infectious disease), war, and death? And where does it say that the white Zetsu are happy serving her? They would have been mindless slaves.

@bold

That's actually a subjective statement right there. Keep in mind that in the Narutoverse slavery is legal as shown with the Hyuuga branch stuff. Then there is the fact that child soldiers are universally accepted and can die in the second sage of Chunin exams.

Upon looking on the wiki...

Nothing on the wiki for Black Zetsu making such a claim, which would be something pretty important to add. I'll check Kaguya.

Looking like a bad translation, nothing on the Kaguya thing.

In contrast to the need to use the White Zetsu as an army for battle, the Wiki states she wanted them for peace:

As time passed, however, Kaguya began to lose trust in humanity as the power ultimately corrupted her. This led to her into madness as she created her ideal peace by trapping her victims in the Infinite Tsukuyomi and convert them into White Zetsu, which would change her public image of a benevolent goddess into that of a Demon (鬼, Oni).

I guess this means Kaguya's plan was inherently good since White Zetsu look pretty darn happy.

Oh and Madara could not explain the origins of the Byakugan and Kimimaro's clan...Nothing a middle-ground latecomer can do to replace the real baddie:

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The manga states they were for a battle. Peace my ass.

Manga>wiki

And as already mentioned Kaguya didn't to be a villain to explain things.

 

[Orochimagus]

The fanbase has people who call their character "Lord Madara", "Lord Hiruzen", "Itachi the Solo King", etc...I don't think the little bit of people backing a genjutsu world can be taken seriously. Madara was not sane and his plan was not with good intent but to control. This can be seen by his sadism and messed up nature; creating the Bloody Mist, placing a cursed seal in the heart of two kids, and having pleasure in the pain of others. Above all, no one that matters sided with Madara; Naruto, Sasuke,Hagoromo, Itachi, Orochimaru, or the Hokages. There was no middle ground or divine...It was an inherently bad thing.

I am asking you to show me a source on the manga for the battle claim so I can check which is the scanlation and the veracity of the statement. If your source is Mangapanda I will have to side with the wiki until you back it up or at best say that the White Zetsu where to be used in a battle for peace since Kaguya was trying to preserve the beauty of the planet in both the myths and the manga.

 

[maniaoqan]

Kaguya being final is better. But Madara should've gone down after a proper fight. He reaches his peak and bam he is gone.. WTF ?

 

[Orochimagus]

Yeah Mania, it would have been nice to at least see a tug of war fight inside Kaguya where Madara had to be defeated before she could use his body. I guess Kishi was trying to drive home the idea that Madara was a complete tool from beginning to end for Kaguya/Black Zetsu.

Anyways, I just read Sin's link in their signature and I would like to add that amusing does not mean right. Each person was in their own little world where things always went their way...Not a unified reality. Such a concept has been touched on other media like Chrono Trigger where the queen kept people under her control by keeping them dreaming for long hours to where the citizens spent most of their time sleeping so they could experience their dream worlds. Needless to say that did not end up well.

To add further to the fact that Madara did not have anyone's best interest at heart, let me remind you Madara knew Obito was fully in with the plan and that he had good intentions, but Madara was still trying to be the one to execute the plan...Why would he bother if he knew it would have the same income? Because he just wanted control. He wanted to be the one playing god with everyone's life like he did with Rin, Obito, and the Bloody Mist (Remember, Madara was so nasty he had kids fight each other to the death). Inherently bad indeed.

Kishi didn't add in Kaguya to make the Moon's Eye plan inherently evil...He added her to tribute to the Japanese folktales as he planned since the very beginning: Tale of the Gallant Jiraiya, Orochi Vs. Susanoo, the Journey to the West, Six Paths, Indra, Asura, and many others.

The tale of the Bamboo Tree is perhaps the biggest myth to their credit so no way Kishimoto was going to skip that one. In short, Kaguya's appearance was predetermined.

 

[MAN OF SIN]

The fanbase has people who call their character "Lord Madara", "Lord Hiruzen", "Itachi the Solo King", etc...I don't think the little bit of people backing a genjutsu world can be taken seriously. Madara was not sane and his plan was not with good intent but to control. This can be seen by his sadism and messed up nature; creating the Bloody Mist, placing a cursed seal in the heart of two kids, and having pleasure in the pain of others. Above all, no one that matters sided with Madara; Naruto, Sasuke,Hagoromo, Itachi, Orochimaru, or the Hokages. There was no middle ground or divine...It was an inherently bad thing.

I am asking you to show me a source on the manga for the battle claim so I can check which is the scanlation and the veracity of the statement. If your source is Mangapanda I will have to side with the wiki until you back it up or at best say that the White Zetsu where to be used in a battle for peace since Kaguya was trying to preserve the beauty of the planet in both the myths and the manga.

Power was partly Madara's motive, but also he truly wanted to turn the world into heaven. As shown in chapter 678 where he called himself the savior of the world. People have seriously debated on the benefits of Madara's end game. Pointing out all the nasty stuff in the Narutoverse and it wasn't a little. Just look at this poll with 130 members on this site.

Spoiler

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40%...that's a big chunk, but people disagree with how Obito and Madara went at it. And again, only Naruto, Sasuke, and Hagoromo knew about the happy dreams and the tree keeping them alive forever. Obito at the Kage Summit said none of this, but instead made a vague statement about "everyone would become one with me". So Itachi, Orochimaru and the Kages' opinions don't matter since they didn't really know what they were fighting against.

And as for Naruto, Sasuke, and Hagoromo...they are ass-holes when you really think about it. As they would have killed the Alliance and millions of people if they had actually sealed Madara in chapter 674. Since the moon is around a quarter of Earth's size and the CT would be made from the earth. This was all before they even found out about the Zetsu aspect. So Naruto thought that was better than Madara's "lie". Which is ironic because he didn't object to Itachi's request to keep the Uchiha clan coup d'état a secret to protect its reputation. But it's wrong if Madara told beautiful lies to make people happy. So their opinions doesn't matter.

Both mangapanda, ***********, and I think viz says battle. I talked to people on the wiki about the army months ago, presenting a theory of that battle meant be.

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The mod didn't correct me when I mentioned they were for a battle. Additionally, Black Zetsu doesn't view the plan as a battle for peace. Hence him say "you're not the savior of the world Madara".

 

[Lia]

she should have been more like hagoromo for madara as he was naruto and sasuke giving madara advice and using him from his mind, that would have been better.

I'll go with this.
First I hoped that Madara would talk with that mysterious princess, like Naruto and Sasuke did with Hagoromo.. but in the end I'm glad that it didn't happen. Kaguya and all of the other Ootsutsuki are worthless sh*t which ruined the manga with their ridiculous alien-story.

 

[Dage The Evil]

Moon's eye was never objectively bad? Madara's version and even Obito's are objectively bad. Your train of reasoning can be used for the Pein riders who say that Madara didn't need to come back and the series could have ended fine there. It can be used for Obito riders saying we didn't need Madara to come back and the story would have resolved better with Obito as final villain. Hell, even us Orochimaru lap riders could say that the series was best back in part 1 where Orochimaru was top villain and that we didn't need to revive Madara to continue the story.

Thing is, Madara's plan on returning was stupid and horribly executed. He would not have come back without Kabuto and Black Zetsu since Obito didn't like Madara to begin with. A villain with such a reckless plan was not cut out for final villain material so an explanation was needed.

Why would we need to know why Kaguya needs Zetsu army since we already know she aspires for power? What sort of villain wouldn't like a world under their control? It is not about the need for the might of the army itself but the control aspect of it. Obviously Kaguya's power was so much that she didn't need them to fight for her.

No the series definitely could have ended at Pain-Arc, think about it, War Arc is a plot device to just pull Sasuke back to the "good" side and allow for other pairings to happen #1HandedTypingBecauseImColdAndInASleepingBag