Would Itachi be the fifth if .....

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Da Best Ever

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Hiruzen was the most powerful shinobi shown in part 1.

Yea a guy who killed an entire clan according to the higher ups... is bound to be good


No way...hiruzen admitted inferiority to Orochimaru saying he didn't think anyone in the village could beat Orochimaru which included himself. Orochimaru admitted inferiority to Itachi later so obviously itachi > hiruzen and Itachi > Orochimaru.

Neither can avoid itachi's genjutsu, oro was put in genjutsu before he even realized it and hiruzen would lose the same way and the fact that Itachi is far much faster than hiruzen.

I don't think I should have to prove this.

Only jiraya could possibly beat part 1 Itachi.
 

SSStylish

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I don't really think that this is a position Itachi would enjoy. He's more of a guy taking orders, not giving.
 

Da Best Ever

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Technically uchiha coup is a canon event. The anime didnt do anything against the manga. But simply showed how the uchiha gathered.

I agree however because those events aren't shown in the manga they are not canon. Sure we obviously should assume the uchiha met up and discussed their coup but the manga never touched on it. So like I said the anime should only ever be taken seriously as fact when it shows things that has actually happened in the manga like...sasuke talking to the edo hokage and etc.

What you're saying is just like the current anime with these chuunin exams. The manga never showed these second exams but the manga showed everyone except naruto make chuunin and neji make jonin so we assume the exams happened but the manga didn't actually show them.
 

KingHashirama

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No way...hiruzen admitted inferiority to Orochimaru saying he didn't think anyone in the village could beat Orochimaru which included himself. Orochimaru admitted inferiority to Itachi later so obviously itachi > hiruzen and Itachi > Orochimaru.

Neither can avoid itachi's genjutsu, oro was put in genjutsu before he even realized it and hiruzen would lose the same way and the fact that Itachi is far much faster than hiruzen.

I don't think I should have to prove this.

Only jiraya could possibly beat part 1 Itachi.

Mhmm yet he wouldve beat him if he didnt have.the edos.

Hiruzen didnt admit inferiority.. he believed orochimaru had become stronger.

Hiruzen has mastered many illusions.. what do you mean he cant avoid them.

Orochimaru was also faster.than hiruzen.

Itachi beating a guy who was once given the mame god pf.shinobi is famfic.bro.
 

DeviantArt

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No way...hiruzen admitted inferiority to Orochimaru saying he didn't think anyone in the village could beat Orochimaru which included himself. Orochimaru admitted inferiority to Itachi later so obviously itachi > hiruzen and Itachi > Orochimaru.

Neither can avoid itachi's genjutsu, oro was put in genjutsu before he even realized it and hiruzen would lose the same way and the fact that Itachi is far much faster than hiruzen.

I don't think I should have to prove this.

Only jiraya could possibly beat part 1 Itachi.
The manga says otherwise. Everything else you've stated is on point.
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Da Best Ever

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I don't really think that this is a position Itachi would enjoy. He's more of a guy taking orders, not giving.



Taking orders...he followed less orders than anyone. His last orders were to kill his clan and spy on akatsuki well while in the akatsuki he was supposed to capture naruto but never actually tried or wanted to.

If he could think like a kage at the age of 5 then he could be one when he got older.
 

KingHashirama

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I agree however because those events aren't shown in the manga they are not canon. Sure we obviously should assume the uchiha met up and discussed their coup but the manga never touched on it. So like I said the anime should only ever be taken seriously as fact when it shows things that has actually happened in the manga like...sasuke talking to the edo hokage and etc.

What you're saying is just like the current anime with these chuunin exams. The manga never showed these second exams but the manga showed everyone except naruto make chuunin and neji make jonin so we assume the exams happened but the manga didn't actually show them.

Woah woah what do you mean it should never be.taken seriously? Considering its much better.than manga.

The manga never showed them doesnt equal it didnt happen.

Kishimoto has copyrights to the anime also I believe.


See if you guys were talking.about some fillers that were irrelvanr tp.the main storyline I would probably agree... but you are talking about canon events.that anime simply explained.

Anywho im out.

Obito wouldve been the 5th. Has hashirama and naruto like personality and was minatos student.. and wouldve probably.became a kage level ninja.


Itachi never professed his need to be hokage. His personality is also not the right one for hokage or the one people would want.

Kakashi wouldve been inferior to obito.

Naruto or sasuke or someone else from their generation woyldve been the 6th.
 
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Milliana

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I wonder if Chie saw this thread would she say that Itachi wouldn't want to be hokage or he would have been the best due to his selfless trait?
 

Da Best Ever

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The manga says otherwise. Everything else you've stated is on point.
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That scan shows and says nothing about the bold. Itachi was the most powerful in part 1 only jiraya could possibly beat him.

Jiraya saying they'd die by his hands merely him saying he's going to protect naruto no matter what. He actually had no knowledge of kisame's skills or itachi's skill. Itachi had no intention on capturing naruto he had to make it looks like he was so that Kisame would believe him because we all know Kisame is a devout obito follower. Itachi could have used Tsukoyami or amaterasu or finger genjutsu on jiraya but doing so means hurting konoha's best soldier.

Woah woah what do you mean it should never be.taken seriously? Considering its much better.than manga.

The manga never showed them doesnt equal it didnt happen.

Kishimoto has copyrights to the anime also I believe.


See if you guys were talking.about some fillers that were irrelvanr tp.the main storyline I would probably agree... but you are talking about canon events.that anime simply explained.


They aren't canon events because they didn't happen in the manga.

Also those none manga events are irrelevant because they weren't important enough to be shown in the manga.
 
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DeviantArt

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That scan shows and says nothing about the bold. Itachi was the most powerful in part 1 only jiraya could possibly beat him.

Jiraya saying they'd die by his hands merely him saying he's going to protect naruto no matter what. He actually had no knowledge of kisame's skills or itachi's skill. Itachi had no intention on capturing naruto he had to make it looks like he was so that Kisame would believe him because we all know Kisame is a devout obito follower. Itachi could have used Tsukoyami or amaterasu or finger genjutsu on jiraya but doing so means hurting konoha's best soldier.
- Jiraiya was looking straight into Itachi's eyes.
- That is pretty much the worst thing you can do,, when facing Itachi.
- Therefore Itachi would have won with laughable difficulty.

I thought my point was self-explanatory, but I see it was not. You seem to have thought I was defending Jiraiya. Sorry about that.
 

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Mhmm yet he wouldve beat him if he didnt have.the edos.

Hiruzen didnt admit inferiority.. he believed orochimaru had become stronger.

Hiruzen has mastered many illusions.. what do you mean he cant avoid them.

Orochimaru was also faster.than hiruzen.

Itachi beating a guy who was once given the mame god pf.shinobi is famfic.bro.


All crap...


Edos tensei was oro's jutsu therefore it was part of his power so that's not an excuse for hiruzen losing.

Saying no one in the village can beat oro is clearly saying he's better than hiruzen too because hiruzen is in the village as well.

Hiruzen having illusions is not the same as ms genjutsu or sharingan genjutsu. The fact is hiruzen never fought a ms user, because prior to Itachi and shi sui only madara and izuna had it and both were no longer a problem when hiruzen was a shinobi growing up or as hokage so he never faced ms genjutsu nor high level 3 tomoe sharingan genjutsu...lmao illusions really hahaha fail


His prime was called god of shinobi not old as 69year old hiruzen who could barely use 5 jutsu. Even Monkey King Emma said old hiruzen was miserable compared to his prime. So you fail again because were not debating about prime hiruzen were debating about old ass hiruzen who was not God of shinobi anymore. Even ebisu when he told naruto that hiruzen was god of shinobi he said " once " hailed as god of shinobi signifying past tense as in no longer god of shinobi skill level. Fail

- Jiraiya was looking straight into Itachi's eyes.
- That is pretty much the worst thing you can do,, when facing Itachi.
- Therefore Itachi would have won with laughable difficulty.

I thought my point was self-explanatory, but I see it was not. You seem to have thought I was defending Jiraiya. Sorry about that.



I believe Itachi was more powerful than jiraya. I'm not saying he couldn't put him under genjutsu at that time I'm saying Itachi wouldn't have because he wasn't bad he was good and pro konoha so why would he hurt konoha's only protector now that hiruzen was dead.
 
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KingHashirama

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They aren't canon events because they didn't happen in the manga.

Also those none manga events are irrelevant because they weren't important enough to be shown in the manga.

They did happen.. The uchiha held meetings for coup.. anime simply showed them .

Umm.. they are important enough.. when series have anime.. authors tend to leave out stuff for the anime.

Ex.: Naruto's Hokage ceremony , what happened right after the release of IT


^^^ All things important to main storyline.. but will only be shown in the anime most likely.

All crap...


Edos tensei was oro's jutsu therefore it was part of his power so that's not an excuse for hiruzen losing.

Saying no one in the village can beat oro is clearly saying he's better than hiruzen too because hiruzen is in the village as well.

Hiruzen having illusions is not the same as ms genjutsu or sharingan genjutsu. The fact is hiruzen never fought a ms user, because prior to Itachi and shi sui only madara and izuna had it and both were no longer a problem when hiruzen was a shinobi growing up or as hokage so he never faced ms genjutsu nor high level 3 tomoe sharingan genjutsu...lmao illusions really hahaha fail


His prime was called god of shinobi not old as 69year old hiruzen who could barely use 5 jutsu. Even Monkey King Emma said old hiruzen was miserable compared to his prime. So you fail again because were not debating about prime hiruzen were debating about old ass hiruzen who was not God of shinobi anymore. Even ebisu when he told naruto that hiruzen was god of shinobi he said " once " hailed as god of shinobi signifying past tense as in no longer god of shinobi skill level. Fail

hmmm they aren't part of his power.. but part of his arsenal.

Hmm, because he was old.. Minato had took over the hokage title, he had retired and etc.. can't claim the title after that.


How does him being old means he lost all his skills?
 
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Da Best Ever

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They did happen.. The uchiha held meetings for coup.. anime simply showed them .

Umm.. they are important enough.. when series have anime.. authors tend to leave out stuff for the anime.

Ex.: Naruto's Hokage ceremony , what happened right after the release of IT


^^^ All things important to main storyline.. but will only be shown in the anime most likely.



The manga is canon so if something is not shown in the manga that means it is insignificant to the story. The events in the anime that are not in the manga are only shown to pass time in between new manga chapters to buy time for the next manga chapter release.

Also we obviously know and assume the uchiha held meetings because it would be stupid to think they didn't because why wouldn't someone who wants a coup not talk to the rest of the clan to sway them to the same thinking and execute the coup strategy.
 

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I believe Itachi was more powerful than jiraya. I'm not saying he couldn't put him under genjutsu at that time I'm saying Itachi wouldn't have because he wasn't bad he was good and pro konoha so why would he hurt konoha's only protector now that hiruzen was dead.

And I agree with all of that.
 

Da Best Ever

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They did happen.. The uchiha held meetings for coup.. anime simply showed them .

Umm.. they are important enough.. when series have anime.. authors tend to leave out stuff for the anime.

Ex.: Naruto's Hokage ceremony , what happened right after the release of IT


^^^ All things important to main storyline.. but will only be shown in the anime most likely.



hmmm they aren't part of his power.. but part of his arsenal.

Hmm, because he was old.. Minato had took over the hokage title, he had retired and etc.. can't claim the title after that.


How does him being old means he lost all his skills?



Part of his arsenal is no different than part of his power because he can use them regardless of whatever verbiage your try to use. Your jutsu is your power and edo tensei is his jutsu.

The point is KingHashirama said Itachi part 1can't beat part 1hiruzen because he was called god of shinobi so I said old ass hiruzen ain't god of shinobi he was that in his prime years.
 

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The government in Konoha practices nepotism. Therefore, the only logical conclusion is that Obito would have been the hokage. He's the "coolest guy" afterall.
 

KingHashirama

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The manga is canon so if something is not shown in the manga that means it is insignificant to the story. The events in the anime that are not in the manga are only shown to pass time in between new manga chapters to buy time for the next manga chapter release.

Also we obviously know and assume the uchiha held meetings because it would be stupid to think they didn't because why wouldn't someone who wants a coup not talk to the rest of the clan to sway them to the same thinking and execute the coup strategy.

@Bold, so where is the statement from Kishimoto that says that?

The era of only the manga being used to tell the storyline has long past.
 

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This was a fun thread...time for it to close.
Edit: Queen Chie is here.
 
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Chie

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This topic is greatly over-done and the majority that actual bothered to read the manga know he would have been a good Hokage.

As far as some points that were addressed previously and some competitors...

-Kakashi would not be made Hokage over Itachi. In terms of wisdom- he does not beat the latter there. Nor does he beat him in pure skill. Kakashi excelled, but he wasn't as much of a prodigy- proven by the feats each had when they were younger and the author's own admission in terms of what he wrote pertaining to them. Kakashi would also be considerable weaker, due to never having an inkling of a chance of acquiring sharingan.

-Obito. The problem with Obito is that due to being an outcast for his lack of abilities and looked down upon by both people insideoutside his clan- he wouldn't be for them. This Uchiha never cared for his brethren, nor was he close to them. He also lacks leadership skills and would not be strong enough to leader, due to Madara never teaching him for 2 years in some run-down, abandoned cave. It isn't only about making an Uchiha Hokage. It's about giving them more political power. It would make more sense to make the heir, Itachi, who cared for both his clan and the people Hokage... than it would be for an Uchiha who is not elite (and therefore not an accurate representation) who could care less about the Uchiha a leader in the village. If Obito took over, he'd just follow what his colleagues tell him and not do what was best for the clan. He was closer to Minato and the like than he was any Uchiha... this isn't a good sign.

As for power in this scenario...

Kakashi 100% will never get sharingan.

Obito never gets MS 100%, since his only comrades are Rin and Kakashi- the chance of them dying is minimal.

Itachi only gets MS if either a close family member (Fugaku/Mikoto/Sasuke) or Shisui die- but this is minimal too (though slightly more likely since he has more people close to him than Obito does).

3 tomoe Itachi> 3 tomoe Obito> sharinganless Kakashi.

The best part here is that Itachi never goes blind but remains the most elite in his clan. Ironically, never acquiring MS is better in this scenario. He's also the least likely to die, considering he's the strongest both in this trio and in his own clan.

As far as the Hokage position itself...

It doesn't matter nor does it mean anything.

Initially when we see the series, as an audience we think it's a big deal. Years later as the series progresses, it's revealed that it's mainly just a paperwork position and looks like they need a figurehead to please masses. (No offense to anyone who thinks it's cool.)

-No Hokage prior Kakashi/Naruto was 100% clean in their political policies.
So much for being for your "family".

-You don't have to be Hokage to fight for the village to protect it.
Naruto had to defend the village against Pein. Tsunade couldn't manage it.

-The most notable aspect of being Hokage and why most initially want it is for glory reasons. To get their face on a mountain.
I think one would rather actually do something notable in the shinobi world than be a figurehead.

-Hokages are not the sole decision makers if they choose to be. Meaning, that they can have assistants decide for them or at least "guide" them.
Case in point for Hashirama (slightly) via Tobirama.
Case in point with Hiruzen via Danzo.
Case in point with Naruto via Shikamaru.

Most people that took the Hokage position were not qualified on their own.

Point is, it's smarter to just be a shinobi and do your part than it is to sit down and sip tea as Hokage. A ninja could play their cards right in NV and be better than any Kage in terms of influence.

In terms of personality?

The argument that "so-and-so" is the type to be behind the scenes and follow orders makes no sense. Why? Because that's what every single person who became Hokage did (minus Hashirama/Tobirama since they helped set up the village at the early point) before getting the position.

At least Itachi has more leadership experience, since he was the Anbu captain for a while. He'd even acquire more, since he'd take over an entire clan someday. Obito has literally none and would never get any, while Kakashi's was only from his team- ordering around Rin and Obito while having a complex about it.

Would Itachi want the position in the first place?

Given his personality- no.

He doesn't go for glory, funny enough glory went for him.

When he'd be informed that he was chosen to be Hokage in this scenario- his reaction would likely be like Kakashi's was in canon. He wouldn't really desire the position, only take it if no one else would.

Conclusion- would Itachi have been the fifth Hokage?

I don't think he'd ever be Hokage. He wouldn't want it and as a result some other shinobi that would have their head in the clouds would take it. However, is he qualified- yes more than enough. And if he accepted, he'd do a fine job, too. He'd also do it the right way and get things done for both his clan, the village, and the shinobi world. Not that he needed to be Hokage, since he did all of that to varying degrees as a shinobi in NV anyway. That's why he's known as the "True Hokage" in this series.
 

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Obito was basically the Uchiha version of Naruto when he was young, he had the same level of ambition and drive to become Hokage, not to mention he was actually being mentored by Minato who knew and supported his goals. His prospects were better than Itachi's Lol

He was a fodder

U must be high... Itachi hated war and loved the village there is no better reason than that no better ambition he made himself a bad guy to protect his village

Obito did it for a hoe and because he was lonely
Stupid childish reasons like Naruto before Sasuke abandoned the village

Itachi at 7 had reasoning of a hokage
At 13 was a anbu
And never needed his academy teachers

Obito would've died period. No one wouldve healed him or saved him he lost to a rock.

Yes Itachi would most likely be the 5th because sarutobi likely would have nominated him and backed him
But shusui was also a good candidate
or based on age compared to the other kages some one in k11 would be the 5th sasuke shikumaru neji are the front runners
 
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