Wood Release is a Kekkei TOTA, not Genkei

[abhiraj]

There r other KKG other than doujutsu that do not use elements.
eg. kimimaro, sakon n ukon,

And Mokuton is a KKG not kekkei touta
Believe it

 

[OWanime]

Yeah he only has two NATURE releases but does yamato even have yang chakra xd

 

[MilwaukeegHost]

There r other KKG other than doujutsu that do not use elements.
eg. kimimaro, sakon n ukon,

And Mokuton is a KKG not kekkei touta
Believe it

THANK YOU FOR HELPING ME MAKE MY POINT LOL




Look at your words BOLDED above. You are absolutely correct, there are other KKG that do not use elements at all. Which makes everyone's arguement that "Yang isnt an element, so it isn't considered in Kekkei Genkei" null and void.


The difference though between Wood Release and other non-elemental Kekkei Genkai like Susano'o is that it uses ELEMENTAL natures AND NON-ELEMENTAL chakras in its execution.



Mokuton = Earth Element + Water Element + Yang Non-Element Nature

 

[juankimari]

It's KG, but a special one i believe 2 elements+life force.

 

[abhiraj]

dude but hashirama and yamato dont have yang release

 

[ShishaMastah420]

Lmao @ Op trying to be more accurate about what Wood Release is than the Manga...

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[yuan of cruxis]

Yang isnt a quality that can change this from a KG

 

[MilwaukeegHost]

Yang isnt a quality that can change this from a KG

If you are correct, I understand. Again, everyone seems to be making the same arguement without disproving my response. I am saying that...



1) Kekkei Genkai are not only "elements". They also include Yin and Yang chakra natures. This is evident from the knowledge that eye dojutsus are a Kekkei Genkai, and they use "YIN" chakra nature, not an element.


2) Yang release is also in Mokuton. Yang is the ability to have life, this is repeated in the manga several times. There is no way to create real life without having Yang chakra infused. Wood, trees, seeds, flowers... these are DIFFERENT than just normal jutsus. You are in actuality creating life itself, and not just manipulating elements.


3) If Yin is in other Kekkei Genkai, and Yang is in Wood Release, then Wood release should be considered a Tota since it has 3 chakra natures (not 3 elements)

 

[Negative Knight]

I agree with you

I always thought Water + Earth = Mud Element

 

[Simplified]

Kishi disagrees. I see where you're coming from though, and even if Yang Release was used, it's not an element - so it wouldn't be a Kekkei Touta xd​

Exactly what this guy said. Yang isn't an element.

 

[MilwaukeegHost]

It's KG, but a special one i believe 2 elements+life force.

This is what I am saying too.



The only other piece I'm adding is the fact that Some Kekkei Genkai's have Yin (eye techniques) and some have Yang (body techniques). Only diff is...


...the eye techniques do NOT combine 2 differnet chakra natures (possibly 2 elements) in its usage. Wood release DOES use 2 different elements plus a third chakra nature which is non-elemental. BUT IT IS STILL CONSIDERED A CHAKRA NATURE. If Yin/Yang are not Kekkei Genkai, then Eye Doujutsus should NOT be considered a Kekkei Genkai b/c they use YIN chakra nature.

 

[Shady17]

Totally agree with you. + rep

 

[ShishaMastah420]

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Aside from the five basic types of nature transformation, there is also a sixth type: the Yin (陰, In), the basis of imagination and spiritual energy, used to perform Yin Release (陰遁, Inton); and the Yang (陽, Yō), the basis of vitality and physical energy, used to perform Yang Release (陽遁, Yōton). Together, they are used to perform Yin–Yang Release (陰陽遁, Onmyōton).[6] Yamato implied that the Yin and Yang are the source of non-elemental techniques such as the Shadow Imitation Technique, Multi-Size Technique, medical ninjutsu, genjutsu, etc.[7]

The Wood (木, Ki) nature, used by Hashirama Senju, Yamato, Danzō Shimura, Madara Uchiha and Zetsu, is created by simultaneously combining the Earth and Water natures. This nature allows for the use of Wood Release (木遁, Mokuton) ninjutsu. Used through a kekkei genkai.

Are Earth and Water not Elements, OP?


I seem to be confused because based on your observations, you seem to be speaking of some Senju opposite to the Sharingan...

My understanding of Hashiramas Wood Release Techinque is that it is a Kekkei Genkai, but because of Hashirama's Senju blood, he has a enormous enough life force to be able to make the trees grow in immense sizes...Like Naruto in his KM Mode, I believe Hashirama simply possesses a large amount of Yang Chakra and he is able to manipulate it through the use of his Kekkei Genkai.

 

[MilwaukeegHost]

It's KG, but a special one i believe 2 elements+life force.

Yes I do agree. But that "Life Force" is = Yang chakra. And Yang chakra isn't an element, but by defn Kekkei Genkai are two different NATURE TRANSFORMATION. And "YIN/YANG" Releases are labeled as the two NON-ELEMENT Nature transformations. I will continue to believe that this makes it a Kekkei Genkai until someone tells me (with manga proof) that the YIN CHAKRA in Eye Doujutsus do NOT make it a Kekkei Genkai. B/c we all know the Yin in these eye techniques cause it to be a Kekkei Genkai. #ImJustSayin

 

[ShishaMastah420]

Yes I do agree. But that "Life Force" is = Yang chakra. And Yang chakra isn't an element, but by defn Kekkei Genkai are two different NATURE TRANSFORMATION. And "YIN/YANG" Releases are labeled as the two NON-ELEMENT Nature transformations. I will continue to believe that this makes it a Kekkei Genkai until someone tells me (with manga proof) that the YIN CHAKRA in Eye Doujutsus do NOT make it a Kekkei Genkai. B/c we all know the Yin in these eye techniques cause it to be a Kekkei Genkai. #ImJustSayin

No.

Kekkei genkai (血継限界; Literally meaning "a technique limited to inheritance by blood" or "Bloodline Limit") are abilities passed down genetically in specific clans. It's possible for a ninja to have more than one of these abilities. Kekkei genkai abilities that work via the user's eye are called dōjutsu. Other kekkei genkai include mixing one type of elemental chakra with another, creating a new one unique to the users, which is usually impossible for normal ninja.

Dōjutsu (瞳術; Literally meaning "Eye Techniques") are genetic ninja abilities that utilise the eyes, granting the wielder ocular abilities. Being a by-product of specific kekkei genkai

 

[MilwaukeegHost]

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Are Earth and Water not Elements, OP?


I seem to be confused because based on your observations, you seem to be speaking of some Senju opposite to the Sharingan...

My understanding of Hashiramas Wood Release Techinque is that it is a Kekkei Genkai, but because of Hashirama's Senju blood, he has a enormous enough life force to be able to make the trees grow in immense sizes...Like Naruto in his KM Mode, I believe Hashirama simply possesses a large amount of Yang Chakra and he is able to manipulate it through the use of his Kekkei Genkai.

Ok. So you are AGREEING WITH ME in saying that Hashirama has an EXTREMELY LARGE AMOUNT OF YANG CHAKRA. You also acknoledge that he was born with this feat, since it can be "manipulated" through the use of his Kekkei Genkai.





Last point. You posted the information that states:


"Aside from the five basic types of nature transformation, there is also a sixth type: the Yin (陰, In), the basis of imagination and spiritual energy, used to perform Yin Release (陰遁, Inton); and the Yang (陽, Yō), the basis of vitality and physical energy, used to perform Yang Release (陽遁, Yōton). "


This is OBVIOUSLY saying that there are MORE than just the 5 "basic" types of nature transformation. Furthermore, it says that the 6th one is YIN and the 7th Nature transformation is YANG. They just happen to be NON-ELEMENTAL nature transformations.


A Kekkei Genkai has TWO NATURE TRANSFORMATIONS while a Kekkei Tota uses THREE NATURE TRANSFORMATIONS. Do you see the point that I am making now....?!?

 

[Takure]

It's a Kekkei Genkai. Wanna know why? Because Kishi said it was. All these "facts" mean nothing. When Kishi tells us that Mokuton is a Kekkei Tōta, then it'll be a Kekkei Tōta. Until that day, you're wrong.

You have good points, but you're not the creator of this series. In the Narutoverse, only Kishi decides what is what.

 

[Anorien16]

There is the funny question: If mokuton is KKG why didnt Hashirama's descendents did not inherit it? Only known two users are Yamato (An experiment) and Hashirama (Original) . . . . It is told that only Mokuton user in leaf is Yamato as Danzo obviously hid the fact.

 

[Blaze Release]

Milwauk i applaud you and +rep. You are right but wrong at the same time xd.
There are 5 nature elements and these are fire, wind, lightning, earth and water and only that. The two which are ying and yang are not really nature elements;

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Mokuton is made up of Earth and Water nature only;

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As kakashi said its a KG. So with his nature chakra he combines earth and water. Yang comes into effect i believe when hashirama control's the trees. As the manga said "By administrating vitality and the physical energy which forms the basis of yang power... he would breath life into the form". SO you are right, but wrong if that makes sense xd

 

[MilwaukeegHost]

Milwauk i applaud you and +rep. You are right but wrong at the same time xd.
There are 5 nature elements and these are fire, wind, lightning, earth and water and only that. The two which are ying and yang are not really nature elements;

You must be registered for see images

Mokuton is made up of Earth and Water nature only;

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

As kakashi said its a KG. So with his nature chakra he combines earth and water. Yang comes into effect i believe when hashirama control's the trees. As the manga said "By administrating vitality and the physical energy which forms the basis of yang power... he would breath life into the form". SO you are right, but wrong if that makes sense xd

BLAZE !!!!




I love argueing with you about theories LOL cause I actually value your input. With that being said... YOU HAVE SIGNIFICANTLY HELPED MY ARGUEMENT HERE. THANK YOU KIND SIR.









Let me explain. You said (and I quote "The two which are ying and yang are not really nature elements"


But... the very first manga screen print you put up states: "With his Yin-Yang Elemental Power he created the Nine Beasts from the Ten-Tails chakra."

Wiki says that Yin and Yang are the 6th and 7th Nature powers. We can both argue about what Wiki tells us b/c Wiki is NOT cannon. I understand that. But... are you telling me that even though the MANGA states that Yin and Yang ARE Elemental Powers, you dont agree?



Last point. Yes, mixing Water and Earth elements are used in creating wood, but as I stated earlier... this is different from any other Kekkei Genkai jutsu because it creates LIFE. There is no combination that you could ever do with regular elements to create life WITHOUT adding vitality. Thats the ability to be "alive", to grow, to have vitality. These "trees" and plant life Mokuton creates is real, living, breathing, growing plants--the same used in the foundation building of Konoha. You need life force to create a jutsu that creates living things!!! This is proven (that Yang is in Mokutun) by the way that naruto's Yang chakra causes the Mokuton trees to GROW.


Are you telling me that Wood Release = Water + Earth AND Yang, but Yang isn't a Nature Element? Even though Wiki AND the manga say it is? Because honestly, this should mean that Mokuton uses THREE Nature elements, which would classify it as Kekkei Tota. Please elaborate what you mean.











-gHost Senju, K.U.S.H. Sage