NarutoKage2
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The SO6P Did Not Belong To Any Shinobi Clan:
The Rikudo Sennin is a character awash in mystery. Who he was, where did he come from, how did he gain all the knowledge that he possessed and what were his origins and his clan ? Many have attempted to grasp at straws by trying to answer these questions. However, upon examining the manga we find that the truth is more elusive than ever.
The Sage Was The Founder Of The Shinobi World(the first shinobi):
The first time his name is mentioned in the manga, this is what we are told:
' The founder of the whole ninja world...'
If you read the text, a note is written that 'ninjutsu can be substituted as 'shinobi'. This would then make the text run as:
'The founder of the whole ninja world, who's knowledge and skills gave birth to shinobi..'
What are the implications of this statement?
1. The Sage of the 6 Paths, through his knowledge managed to devise a new system of learning, one called ninjutsu
2. His skills were responsible for the eventual formation of people who followed his teachings, called shinobi.
Over time, shinobi would proliferate and increase in number. Many different clans, composed of people with similar abilities that can be passed on through blood, would develop into full fledged shinobi clans.
The question now is, if the Sage came before shinobi, (and the shinobi clans that would subsequently follow) as the manga clearly states than how could the Rikudo possibly have been from a shinobi clan himself? He pre dated shinobi and their world, how could he have belonged to a sect that was part of a system(of shinobi) that had not even been founded yet?
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' The founder of the whole ninja world...'
If you read the text, a note is written that 'ninjutsu can be substituted as 'shinobi'. This would then make the text run as:
'The founder of the whole ninja world, who's knowledge and skills gave birth to shinobi..'
What are the implications of this statement?
1. The Sage of the 6 Paths, through his knowledge managed to devise a new system of learning, one called ninjutsu
2. His skills were responsible for the eventual formation of people who followed his teachings, called shinobi.
Over time, shinobi would proliferate and increase in number. Many different clans, composed of people with similar abilities that can be passed on through blood, would develop into full fledged shinobi clans.
The question now is, if the Sage came before shinobi, (and the shinobi clans that would subsequently follow) as the manga clearly states than how could the Rikudo possibly have been from a shinobi clan himself? He pre dated shinobi and their world, how could he have belonged to a sect that was part of a system(of shinobi) that had not even been founded yet?
The Discovery Of Chakra:
Every ninja technique requires the use of chakra to perform, including fuuinjutsu(sealing jutsus). A common misconception people have developed is that the Sage may have belonged to the Uzuamki clan. This is blatantly false using any kind of logic and can be proven as such. In this page:
'He was the FIRST to divine the true meaning of chakra...'
Is it possible for shinobi clans, such as the Uzumaki to have been in existence when the true meaning of chakra itself was as of yet unknown? The clan was one famous for its sealing techniques, or fuuinjutsu as stated here:
A sealing technique is a jutsu, and like any jutsu it requires the use of chakra, which is proportional to the scale of the jutsu to be used. For example, the nine phantom dragon fuuinjutsu used by Pain was a jutsu that required its users to expel an amount of chakra that was equal to the bijju that was to be sealed within the Gedo Mazo. This was the whole reason why it often took upto several days(3 on average) to complete the sealing process. So can a clan that is renown for sealing jutsus, which require chakra(and sometimes very heavy amounts) to perform pre date the individual who discovered the true use of chakra itself? This is literally like saying that the chicken came before the egg.
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Is it possible for shinobi clans, such as the Uzumaki to have been in existence when the true meaning of chakra itself was as of yet unknown? The clan was one famous for its sealing techniques, or fuuinjutsu as stated here:
You must be registered for see images
A sealing technique is a jutsu, and like any jutsu it requires the use of chakra, which is proportional to the scale of the jutsu to be used. For example, the nine phantom dragon fuuinjutsu used by Pain was a jutsu that required its users to expel an amount of chakra that was equal to the bijju that was to be sealed within the Gedo Mazo. This was the whole reason why it often took upto several days(3 on average) to complete the sealing process. So can a clan that is renown for sealing jutsus, which require chakra(and sometimes very heavy amounts) to perform pre date the individual who discovered the true use of chakra itself? This is literally like saying that the chicken came before the egg.
Misconception About Naruto's Seal:
It seems that this particular page has caused some confusion(or people have deliberately tried to twist it):
Kurama comments that 'this is...the Sage of the 6 paths'. Since it is more or less common knowledge that the jutsu used to seal the Kyuubi in Naruto was based off Uzumaki techniques, it was immediately used as evidence to imply that the Sage must have been an Uzumaki himself.
Perhaps if people had not forgotten, there was also another manga page that explains Kurama's statement:
Read what Tobi says:
' The Rikudo Sennin developed a certain ninjutsu in order to protect the world from the Juubi, even now that ninjutsu is quietly being passed down...the seal that creates a jinchuriki'
The Sage was the one who invented the sealing jutsu used to seal a bijuu within its host jinchuriki. So of course, when that seal would be activated(when Naruto fought against the Kyuubi) Kurama would see the power of the Sage of the 6 paths, since it was his jutsu that was binding him. (The connection between the Uzumaki and the Sage derives from the younger son, as they are his descendants as i shall prove later).
Also note, that this link conclusively proves that since it was the Rikudo who invented this jutsu, that nothing of the kind existed prior to that. So there is no possibility for this to have been a pre existing tech of a clan such as the Uzuamkis. Another point to be noted, notice how Tobi categorically classifies fuuinjutsu as a form of ninjutsu. The manga has already stated that the Sage was the founder of ninjutsu, thereby eliminating the chance of the existence of a clan that practiced ninjutsu sealing prior to the Sage, thereby eliminating the chance that the Uzumaki clan pre dated the Sage.
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Perhaps if people had not forgotten, there was also another manga page that explains Kurama's statement:
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Read what Tobi says:
' The Rikudo Sennin developed a certain ninjutsu in order to protect the world from the Juubi, even now that ninjutsu is quietly being passed down...the seal that creates a jinchuriki'
The Sage was the one who invented the sealing jutsu used to seal a bijuu within its host jinchuriki. So of course, when that seal would be activated(when Naruto fought against the Kyuubi) Kurama would see the power of the Sage of the 6 paths, since it was his jutsu that was binding him. (The connection between the Uzumaki and the Sage derives from the younger son, as they are his descendants as i shall prove later).
Also note, that this link conclusively proves that since it was the Rikudo who invented this jutsu, that nothing of the kind existed prior to that. So there is no possibility for this to have been a pre existing tech of a clan such as the Uzuamkis. Another point to be noted, notice how Tobi categorically classifies fuuinjutsu as a form of ninjutsu. The manga has already stated that the Sage was the founder of ninjutsu, thereby eliminating the chance of the existence of a clan that practiced ninjutsu sealing prior to the Sage, thereby eliminating the chance that the Uzumaki clan pre dated the Sage.
Clearing Up The Confusion On The Sage's Hair:
Of the few times in the manga when he has been shown, perhaps the most prominent time was during Kurama's flashback:
Notice that his hair at that point is white, which by itself is in stark contrast to the trademark red hair of the Uzumaki clan. Some have speculated that this may be because the Sage underwent the extraction of the Juubi from his body and that caused him to fatigue. I call BS on this as well. Kushina underwent the extraction of the Kyuubi from her, yet her hair retained its original color . A far more plausible reason for white hair is old age, as hinted by Kurama here:
'Its been too long, old man. Not just that, but Mito Uzumaki when she was an old hag and on the verge of death, still retained her hair color:
Her hair is still red as seen above.
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Notice that his hair at that point is white, which by itself is in stark contrast to the trademark red hair of the Uzumaki clan. Some have speculated that this may be because the Sage underwent the extraction of the Juubi from his body and that caused him to fatigue. I call BS on this as well. Kushina underwent the extraction of the Kyuubi from her, yet her hair retained its original color . A far more plausible reason for white hair is old age, as hinted by Kurama here:
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'Its been too long, old man. Not just that, but Mito Uzumaki when she was an old hag and on the verge of death, still retained her hair color:
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Her hair is still red as seen above.
A Small Note:
NOTE: The only reason Nagato's hair turned white was because he had exhausted every last chakra reserve he had. And this only occurred after he used
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, and then his hair changed color
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When Naruto came to meet him, his hair was still red despite having destroyed konoha, used Chibaku tensei and having all of his paths destroyed. All this did not affect his hair at all. I already explained why having a bijju extracted does'nt change an Uzumaki's hair color, while the fact that Nagato used CT and retained his hair color means that had the Sage been an Uzumaki, the 2 things he did(having the Juubi removed from his body and using CT to seal the Gedo Mazo) were identical to what Nagato and Kushina did as well(albeit on a different scale, but he's the Rikudo after all). Therefore there was no reason for his hair to change color. A Word On The Uzumaki Clan:
This clan was a shinobi clan from the Whirlpool village that specialized in sealing techniques. They were stated to be distant blood relatives to the Senju clan and have had close ties with the village of Konoha. They were regarded as strong allies of Konoha and were considered loyal to them. One proof of this is the symbol of the whirlpool village worn on the backs of shinobi from the leaf.
The clan was almost definitely an off shoot of the senju, descended from the younger son. There is a massive amount of circumstantial evidence to back this up. For starters, zetsu all but spells it out when he states that Nagato(an Uzumaki) is from the Senju lineage:
'Nagato(uzumaki) is from the senju lineage'. Meaning, that Nagato descended from the senju clan, or in other words that the Uzumakis are descended from amongst the Senju. This would make perfect sense. For starters, the Uzumaki clan and their village were immediate neighbors to Konoha and the fire country, as seen on this map:
So its quite probable that an offshoot group amongst the younger son's descendants traveled to the whirlpool village where they eventually started their own shinobi clan, their physical proximity to the fire country of the senjus means there was nothing surprising about this.
Secondly, the sealing jutsus of the Uzuamkis were likely to have evolved from the specific fuuinjutsu initially passed down by the Sage to his younger son. And the Uzumaki, being descendants of the younger son, developed techniques that were eerily similar if not identical to the fuuinjutsu initially used by the senju.
To elaborate this point, notice the startling physical resemblance between Hashirama's fuuinjutsu used on the Juubi:
The 10 seals jutsu has 10 objects, which appear to be two parallel upright pillars with 2 cylinders running horizontally.
EXACTLY the same shape seen here:
The image in the top right has a resemblance to the first pic that is too similar to be merely coincidental. It was almost the same tech Hashirama used, thus increasing the probability of the Uzumaki and their techs being a variation of jutsu originally possessed by the Senju clan(since what we saw was Naruto's subconscious when he re enforced his uzumaki seal).
The clan was almost definitely an off shoot of the senju, descended from the younger son. There is a massive amount of circumstantial evidence to back this up. For starters, zetsu all but spells it out when he states that Nagato(an Uzumaki) is from the Senju lineage:
You must be registered for see images
'Nagato(uzumaki) is from the senju lineage'. Meaning, that Nagato descended from the senju clan, or in other words that the Uzumakis are descended from amongst the Senju. This would make perfect sense. For starters, the Uzumaki clan and their village were immediate neighbors to Konoha and the fire country, as seen on this map:
You must be registered for see images
Secondly, the sealing jutsus of the Uzuamkis were likely to have evolved from the specific fuuinjutsu initially passed down by the Sage to his younger son. And the Uzumaki, being descendants of the younger son, developed techniques that were eerily similar if not identical to the fuuinjutsu initially used by the senju.
To elaborate this point, notice the startling physical resemblance between Hashirama's fuuinjutsu used on the Juubi:
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EXACTLY the same shape seen here:
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The Essence Of The Juubi:
A very obvious question to ask anyone who believes that the Sage was an Uzumaki, is that why was the Rikudo the only one from that clan in history who ever awoke the rinnegan? We know of at least 4 other uzumakis, and none of them(besides Nagato who was given his eyes by Madara) ever showed any kind of doujutsu. The answer given has been that the sealing of the Juubi was the catalyst for occular powers awakening in the Sennin, it was the source of all doujutsu and by extension, the main cause of the powers passed on to the elder son.
However, what we know so far about this is the following:
The uchiha get stronger and their sharingan develops in response to the hatred in their hearts:
Basically, we can say that:
Uchiha + hatred= increased eye power
But if hatred is needed to increase the strength of their doujutsu, as has been stated by Tobirama and as has been observed numerous times in the manga(Obito, Sasuke, Madara etc) then how can their origin lie with the Juubi?
First, in this scan:
Kurama says: 'That thing does'nt have feelings or ideals'.
A being possessed of immense raw energy, similar to that which occurs naturally in the elements of the earth that is DEVOID of any kind of emotion, including hatred. So how could the Juubi possibly have been the source of the Uchiha's curse of hatred, when the Juubi itself is not possessed of any kind of emotion, either negative or positive?
However, what we know so far about this is the following:
The uchiha get stronger and their sharingan develops in response to the hatred in their hearts:
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Basically, we can say that:
Uchiha + hatred= increased eye power
But if hatred is needed to increase the strength of their doujutsu, as has been stated by Tobirama and as has been observed numerous times in the manga(Obito, Sasuke, Madara etc) then how can their origin lie with the Juubi?
First, in this scan:
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Kurama says: 'That thing does'nt have feelings or ideals'.
A being possessed of immense raw energy, similar to that which occurs naturally in the elements of the earth that is DEVOID of any kind of emotion, including hatred. So how could the Juubi possibly have been the source of the Uchiha's curse of hatred, when the Juubi itself is not possessed of any kind of emotion, either negative or positive?
Tobi=Obito Comparisons:
The more or less infamous theory of the Sage being an Uzumaki has also had its author/s claim that as Tobi being Obito was considered improbable, that this theory falls into the same category. This is perhaps the most laughable parallel anyone could possibly make. For starters, Tobi's identity was a question that the manga asked itself:
'Who is that man with the mask?'
'So if that right there is the real Madara, then the person we've thought was Madara this whole time was someone else?'
And again:
Why did the masked man claim he was Madara?'
Needless to say, no such hype currently exists which asks the reader to ascertain which clan the Sage came from. None. The reason for this is that the Sage himself came before the era of shinobi clans themselves. The only questions the manga truly asks us is a vague foreshadowing that Naruto will become the next Sage, and that the original master of the 6 paths was able to predict this development.
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'So if that right there is the real Madara, then the person we've thought was Madara this whole time was someone else?'
And again:
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Why did the masked man claim he was Madara?'
Needless to say, no such hype currently exists which asks the reader to ascertain which clan the Sage came from. None. The reason for this is that the Sage himself came before the era of shinobi clans themselves. The only questions the manga truly asks us is a vague foreshadowing that Naruto will become the next Sage, and that the original master of the 6 paths was able to predict this development.
Conclusion:
All the evidence from the manga proves in a very convincing light that the Sage of the 6 paths was not descended from any shinobi clan. The reason that i have focused almost exclusively on de bunking the uzumaki theory, is because it is the most common misconception people here have. Ninjutsu, shinobi and the use of chakra itself were all introduced to the NV as a result of all that the Sage did. It was not something that existed prior to his arrival. Much has already been stated and explained in this thread, and there is still much that has gone un said due to time constraints on my part. I will leave the reader with some final food for thought in this matter:
Kushina said that the Uzumaki clan was wiped out as a result of people coming to fear the power of their sealing techniques in an era of constant war:
'People quickly came to fear the power of our sealing techniques'.
What's curious about this statement is that if such fear developed quickly, where were the uzumaki clan for the probably hundreds of years before dating back to the Sage's time?
Back when Madara and Hashirama fought, the world was engrossed in constant war:
And in the Sage's era, before shinobi arrived on the scene:
'Long ago, people were always at war, it was even worse than now'.
Question: If there was far worse war seen in the Sage's era, and in the era of Hashirama and Madara's lives, than how did the Uzumaki clan manage to survive for so long, yet get annihilated so quickly in one war?
Answer: Initially the Uzumaki and the senju were one and the same clan, and they were protected by their senju brethren. After the creation of Konoha, most likely with the passage of time the blood of the senjus thinned out and they grew weaker(unable to protect their allies), paving the way for the Uzumakis destruction.
So in other words, it was almost impossible for the Sage to have come from a clan that failed to survive the 2nd/3rd ninja world war era since far worse wars existed during the Sage's own time.
Hope you enjoy the read, and that this has helped to shed light on this issue.
Kushina said that the Uzumaki clan was wiped out as a result of people coming to fear the power of their sealing techniques in an era of constant war:
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What's curious about this statement is that if such fear developed quickly, where were the uzumaki clan for the probably hundreds of years before dating back to the Sage's time?
Back when Madara and Hashirama fought, the world was engrossed in constant war:
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And in the Sage's era, before shinobi arrived on the scene:
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Question: If there was far worse war seen in the Sage's era, and in the era of Hashirama and Madara's lives, than how did the Uzumaki clan manage to survive for so long, yet get annihilated so quickly in one war?
Answer: Initially the Uzumaki and the senju were one and the same clan, and they were protected by their senju brethren. After the creation of Konoha, most likely with the passage of time the blood of the senjus thinned out and they grew weaker(unable to protect their allies), paving the way for the Uzumakis destruction.
So in other words, it was almost impossible for the Sage to have come from a clan that failed to survive the 2nd/3rd ninja world war era since far worse wars existed during the Sage's own time.
Hope you enjoy the read, and that this has helped to shed light on this issue.
