why obito timeline makes sense as well as madara knowing nagato and obito

[New Era]

there nothing wrong with the timeline it actually all makes sense.

How tobi would sneak in konoha

obito and itachi were both going on outside missions when they saw war so they knew the barrier code of the hidden leaf so that they can re enter the village.

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also how obito would know where minato and kushina is well here's how zetsu is really more of a jutsu he is land himself(he is wood release in the fleash)so he can merge with the ground and get info and also zetsu can use time delay jutsu's and can't even be detected at times.

also how would tobi know kushina is pregnet well a uchiha was the first to know itachi and sasuke mother knew first remember obito was known dead at this time but was also sneaking in the uchiha hideout to gain info on the sharingan secret(nakara shrine) so zetsu and tobi would be able to infiltrate the village at any time and over here it.

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Why obito would be so powerful

when itachi was a kid at 8 years old he mastered the sharingan and then when he passed the chunin exams half a year later he was strong enough to be in the anbu.

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obito story is that after he unlocked his sharingan at the age of 7-9 (since kakashi was around his age at that time but the youngest out of the group since kakashi graduated at the chunin exams at 8 years old)

but obito had what 2 years to master his sharingan and also obito has hashirama dna(zetsu goo) in his body so obito sharingan would already be powerful like danzo who could do izanagi.We already know that the sharingan is powerful and that kid itachi was already mastered it when he was 8 so why can't obito master the sharingan, if obito has senju dna in him to make the sharingan even stronger and to allow obito to control the nine tails.

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(plus tobi used izanagi at full scale since he had a uchiha body with senju dna danzo couldn't do that since he didn't have a uchiha body.)

How madara knows obito

we both know that madara only fought the hashirama senju for his dna.
this is what tsunade says
"Knowing that Tobi developed a technique with the cells to extend his life, Tsunade states there is no clue on how to defeat Tobi, saying he is a true immortal."

tsunade basically saying that with hashirama dna and uchiha dna you are living a long life and gain immortality is some form so if this is true could have had a long life source like an uzumaki living over a hundred years.

we both know that madara said that he awakened the rinnegan shortly before he died but he did not tell us when he died but we also know that madara saw nagato as well so madara could have been alive 29-30 years ago in secret since nagato and kakashi are around the same age.

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also take into consideration that madara was the only one to have a huge portion of hashirama senju dna no one else so how can tobi get access to hashirama senju dna it has to be from madara himself.

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we don't know why madara died but we know that madara had a longer life than usual since he got the senju dna inserted in him.

also look at nagato and obito they look like madara if you look at obito right side of his face then he will look like madara so obito would have no problem showing his face to kisame and if obito grew long hair he would fool anyone who didn't originally see him as a kid.

so madara could be obito and nagato father or related to them some how but it may not be but anyway madara must have created zetsu in order to save obito since zetsu is land himself and also must have created the akastsuki with yahiko in order to manipulate nagato future as well to make sure madara original plan of moon eye plan to work.

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basically since obito got senju dna in him he would be strong and master the sharingan and also tame the nine tails at a young age and be this powerful and also with madara gaining a long life he would know nagato and obito since he had senju dna in himself(madara said he only died when he got the rinnegan but he didn't say when he died)

with obito having senju dna,kamui,space time, and zetsu he would be able to get information out of people.

as to why obito went against his morals of not hurting his friends it could be since he was at a near death experience and also the one that went rougue madara uchiha found him and saved his life with zetsu then maybe madara idea of moon eye plan convinced obito of true peace in that way so he would do anything to accomplish his plan because be honest obito saw madara before and took his plan and zetsu and obito seem to be best friends right now and how else would madara both know nagato and obito if he didn't have a long life from getting hashirama dna.

 

[ItachiSan03]

Nagato is much older than kakashi. Think about it, nagato was around 10 when jiraiya trained him, which was before he trained minato, who trained kakashi.

 

[New Era]

Nagato is much older than kakashi. Think about it, nagato was around 10 when jiraiya trained him, which was before he trained minato, who trained kakashi.

but minato was an adult when jiraiya trained him as well

we don't even know when minato got trained by jiraiya exactly

 

[MrSimple]

but minato was an adult when jiraiya trained him as well

but Obito was a kiid when Minato trained him as well.

Obito theory is basically ridiculous...

 

[New Era]

but Obito was a kiid when Minato trained him as well.

Obito theory is basically ridiculous...

ok that doesn't matter if obito had senju dna inside himself he would be on danzo level since tobi(obito) said once you have senju dna and uchiha sharingan you can tame the nine tails.

so if obito got senju dna he would have a powerful sharingan and in a year he should be pretty good.
but also could explain obito fighting remember he fight cowardly as well or strange with the chains which obito even when he was a kid wasn't much of a fighter with hand to hand combat.

 

[Chatte]

but minato was an adult when jiraiya trained him as well

we don't even know when minato got trained by jiraiya exactly

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[OnPoint]

but minato was an adult when jiraiya trained him as well

we don't even know when minato got trained by jiraiya exactly

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[The Hidden Shinobi]

Yhhh Im just gonna wait for kishi

 

[New Era]

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ok finejiraiya was still young ,minato could have been trained by jiraiya before he met nagato in the war

it doesn't matter if nagato was trained first or older it really doesn't all that matters is that madara met both obito and madara and manipulated there life style thanks for pic

 

[blackstar9]

This is a great thread ! im not sure its 100 right since kishi didnt reveal all yet . But its well thought out ! ill plus rep for the effort !!!

 

[Alphachu]

Obito did not awaken his sharingan when he was 8 :sy: it says he was 13

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meaning he died when he was 13 and we know he awakened his sharingan in that last mission of his.

 

[New Era]

Obito did not awaken his sharingan when he was 8 :sy: it says he was 13

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meaning he died when he was 13 and we know he awakened his sharingan in that last mission of his.

age doesn't matter the main point is that obito had senju dna in him and that he got powerful from that.

the age, could be wrong but i wasn't depending the thoery really on age just that madara uchiha had a long life to manipulate nagato and obito life and why obito would know so much and why he could control the fox. and fool kisame.

 

[Red Swag]

sorry didnt read all of em. but how did obito give nagato the rinegan? thats my only problem wth this obito thing. other than that im cool.

i can totally understand that he fought his master the 4th. since in the anime kakashi looks like an adult already

 

[New Era]

sorry didnt read all of em. but how did obito give nagato the rinegan? thats my only problem wth this obito thing. other than that im cool.

i can totally understand that he fought his master the 4th. since in the anime kakashi looks like an adult already

this is what happened obito is not madara uchiha, he acts like he is madara uchiha to fool nagato and everyone else.
as he said before nagato was more powerful than him in the akatsuki so he manipulated nagato to control him in tobi twisted way of peace and if tobi can say he is madara then he can fool people like what he has done to the shinobi world by tricking them to war because they fear madara uchiha

madara uchiha himself gave nagato the rinnegan.

obito had no one with the ms in the first place so he could never obtain the ems to go to the rinnegan the only way obito could do that if he had another ms which he does now which is sasuke gave to tobi.

 

[Chatte]

ok finejiraiya was still young ,minato could have been trained by jiraiya before he met nagato in the war

it doesn't matter if nagato was trained first or older it really doesn't all that matters is that madara met both obito and madara and manipulated there life style thanks for pic

Than explain this:


Ok, so here are MY BELIEFS in regard to the whole Tobi id theories (I will quote myself from other threads).

Why he is Tobi, but is not Tobi and could be Izuna.

What my questions/remarks are:

1. Why the indirect hate towards the whole Senju clan that Tobi has shown unless being a very old character?

2. Why Kishi would write the few sentences as this: "Obito?" If it would've been a 100% sure it would've been a full stop or a exclamation mark?

Question mark is used in connection with an 100% uncomplete information, it means there is a missing data there.

If it would've been a full stop it would've represented an undenied piece of evidence. Still Kishi used a question mark meaning the evidence is not 100% accurate/missing data.

3. As well as the phrase construction "It has been confirmed: his name is Obito!"

There Kishi confirms things, it gives us the information that the name is Obito, not the whole person. If it would've been a 100% certain information that Tobi is Obito as a whole, it wouldn't have been necessary for Kishi to add an explanatory note, yet he did it to bring an explanatory note about the name being Obito.

So until isn't 100% sure that Tobi is Obito, until Tobi stated himself, yes, I am Tobi, even though it's a 0.01% chances of being someone else, I am doubting this as it still leaves open possibilities.

It would have been logical for Kishi to mislead to add all those details that took to Obito in order to mess with our minds.

My guess is that it is his body, but there is someone else in there, meaning the counsciousness/soul of another person.

Or it is his consciousness but another body very similar to Tobi's.

True that you were very close.
You were actually very accurate on the indicative details that would make us believing that actually, yes, Tobi is Obito or the timeline of the events having some connection with the timeline of the events of Obito's ones.

He could even play with our mind making Tobi to state that he was Obito which again would be an 100% that he would be Obito. But we know that Kishi made this character to be a bit of a lier. What if in a singular panel, later on, when he would be by himself or with Zetsu/Madara, he will state something like "I told them I am Obito in order to play with their minds?" or something very similar to that. Wouldn't that be a second mind-f*ck (excuse my language) given to us by Kishi?

So until Kishimoto comes with an undeniable proof that he is indeed Obito, that still leaves open possibilities, as I've stated before.

What if is indeed his mind and body, but actually somewhere in the back there is God knows what whose using Tobi's counsciousness with a jutsu or something like that? What if it is his body that gave a full access to his memories but someone else is there. Like in Queen of the Damned movie (a vampire one) where when you bit someone and had his blood you had full access to his memories. Body includes the brain, the brain stores memories.

The perfect match to play with someone's mind.

Also, something to note, that rumor who was viral these days on the internet would pretty much fit the whole scenario of Tobi = Obito but is not actually Obito, is Izuna.

Because if you remember, it was said that it was indeed, Izuna BUT he will bring a lot of suffer thus implying the fact that looking like Obito will mind-blow Kakashi and everyone else who once knew Obito.

Also that was supposed to be an unleaked information by someone close to Kishimoto that instantly would blow-away the whole impact on the fanbase. But, Kishi as being smart (hope he is because of not... I don't know what to say U_U) made us once again fall into astonishment, as we move our beliefs regarding the rumor.

Than, he comes again later on (still have to see when) and show us Tobi as being Izuna and once again we will be mind-blown. So he got the impact he wanted in the first place EVEN THOUGH the information was leaked.

Nonetheless, we have to wait.

Yes, he had been exposed, but why do I have the feeling that he wanted to be exposed? He is portrayed as a character who wants to play with people's mind and use undeniable true facts twisted to his own advantage.

And here we have to take into consideration the whole Sasuke story.
Indeed, he told Sasuke what happened to Itachi but he did it that way, that would suit his preferences.

Same things could happen with Kakashi as well. Using undeniable facts to his own benefit although they differ in perspective.

If it's not Obito and is Izuna, the whole information he got after the timeline of his events would be easily explained thanks to Zetsu. But to explain Obito's timeline events with what happens now, is a lot harder.

The expose thing I was reffering about him wanted to be exposed when he adressed to Kakashi/Gai.
That would be from where his mind-twisting plan starts.

Regarding Madara, simple here as well.

Fought Hashirama -> Got Rinnegan -> Took some Hashirama DNA -> Saw that time is passing by and he is getting close to his end -> Made Zetsu -> Used RinneTensei to bring back Izuna -> Entrusted them the plan -> Died safely knowing he will be later revived. With the given data until now, timeline matches.

Why Izuna to chose Tobi and how would he know Obito? Simple. Zetsu info on everything gathered. Zetsu got Obito's body. Izuna took it as probably from the RinneTensei his body wsn't in a good state(?) nad used Obito's body.
If you look when Itachi seeks his help, he doesn't recommend himself as Tobi. Later on he would use the idea for creating a bigger pshycological impact on his rivals.

Kyuubi matter recognizing Tobi (Tobi being Madara presumption) in the Konoha attack:

There are 2 different statements.
The one when he saw Sasuke it was a certain,undoubtleful statement that his eyes resemble Madara's ones, meaning they are similar because he didn't saw the eyes before but could resemble them to Madara's WHILE when he saw Tobi, it was a clear, undeniable statement of amazement/100 percent accurate information that he knew him, recognized him.

Madara was the first one to control Kyuubi, indeed but why aren't we sure that on one of the sessions be had Izuna with him as well, therefore Kurama recognizing him.

Say "You!" directly implies that Kyuubi recognized him, but we can't tell it was Madara as before always Kyuubi had reffered to Madara as Madara Uchiha.
That why I said, because he never saw Tobi's face but he recognized him by a single look in the eyes and could also leave the possibility as I have stated before.
I mean, why leave things unclear of a specific moment when about the other times Kishi was specifical when it came to Madara? How do we know that it wasn't a possibility of someone else to be related to Madara that would know the Kyuubi. Before the fight with Hashirama, Madara had the Kyuubi in possesion and it was clearly stated that until Izuna supposedly died, they did everything together. This could be as well a thing done together.

Why isn't logical when this could be explained through a jutsu that Kishi could further explain? Tobi was the one who gave Nagato the Rinnegan and I already explained how this could've been done:


Fought Hashirama -> Got Rinnegan -> Took some Hashirama DNA -> Saw that time is passing by and he is getting close to his end -> Made Zetsu -> Used RinneTensei to bring back Izuna -> Entrusted them the plan (the plan is understandable that includes giving the rinnegan to Nagato) -> Died safely knowing he will be later revived. With the given data until now, timeline matches.

Why Izuna to chose Tobi and how would he know Obito? Simple. Zetsu info on everything gathered. Zetsu got Obito's body. Izuna took it as probably from the RinneTensei his body wsn't in a good state(?) nad used Obito's body.
If you look when Itachi seeks his help, he doesn't recommend himself as Tobi. Later on he would use the idea for creating a bigger pshycological impact on his rivals.

Izuna might have had problems with his body before, for example being blind. How could he possibly get unblinded if RinneTensei brings you back how you were before dieing?

Before dieing Izuna gave his eyes to Madara and thus, upon revival, he was brought blind. It was logical they needed a body.
And is well known that not any type of body supports the sharingan. What other good body than a Uchiha one (Obito's).

How else better to hide the reasons behind Izuna collecting sharingans, when they're stories (Izuna's and Obito's) match perfectly?
At first you would think that Obito were to collect Sharingans because what happened to him. Perfect cover to hide Izuna because his reason would be the same. He gave the eyes to his brother and now needed new ones.

 

[yondaime4]

Lol im not sure what i think anymore. you cant create a proper hypothesis without evoidence but for some reason i think nagato is madaras kid and obito still needs some explaining lol

 

[New Era]

Than explain this:


Ok, so here are MY BELIEFS in regard to the whole Tobi id theories (I will quote myself from other threads).

Why he is Tobi, but is not Tobi and could be Izuna.











Kyuubi matter recognizing Tobi (Tobi being Madara presumption) in the Konoha attack:

the reasons why i don't think it is izuna is because they showed izuna in an actual coffin and the other think is madara hatred being for izuna eyes taken and the possible death on the battlefield fighting blind.

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also if it is true that obito could be madara son or a really close relative the madara uchiha then his chakra nature would be similar in order for the fox to be fooled to think he is madara.

everyone knows that madara was the only one to do so they would think it was madara that controlled the fox like jiriaya thought but obito was the masked man but they say with hashirama senju dna and sharingan eyes you can control the fox well or if you had the mangekyou sharingan.

 

[Chatte]

the reasons why i don't think it is izuna is because they showed izuna in an actual coffin and the other think is madara hatred being for izuna eyes taken and the possible death on the battlefield fighting blind.

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They showed Kakashi dieing, yet has been brought back.
They showed Orochimaru dieing, yet has been brought back.
Two of the most recent contradictory facts that if someone is supposed to be dead in this manga, it doesn't mean it really is. And the most up-to-date possible fact (still not 100% clear): Obito.

Madara hatred for Izuna eyes? Madara was very thankful for that gift and hated the rest of the world because his brother had to make that sacrifice in order for him to get stronger.
It was shown that the interchange was done inside their house not on a batterfield.

 

[New Era]

They showed Kakashi dieing, yet has been brought back.
They showed Orochimaru dieing, yet has been brought back.
Two of the most recent contradictory facts that if someone is supposed to be dead in this manga, it doesn't mean it really is. And the most up-to-date possible fact (still not 100% clear): Obito.

Madara hatred for Izuna eyes? Madara was very thankful for that gift and hated the rest of the world because his brother had to make that sacrifice in order for him to get stronger.
It was shown that the interchange was done inside their house not on a batterfield.

orochimaru never died he gained some type of immmortaility by transferring bodies.
in the data book says that he was sacrificed for his clan so madara did want his eyes but izuna power was taken and i think tobi said he died on the battle field but izuna was in there there house in the coffin

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madara died shortly after so he might have not gotten the chance to get izuna and revive him since he died shortly afterwards but we don't know how he died the izuna theory could have a chance but i think tobi/obito is just lost or being used/manipulated.

 

[natssuu]

Madara died before/during 2nd great ninja war, Obito wasn't alive at that moment.