Why is the rinnegan exclusive

[Gerkak]

We can't really say whether obtaining EMS is a requirement or not seeing how no one has obtained the EMS except for Indra. I mean the Tablet said that Yin and Yang had to become one, but it says that only after the portion about attaining EMS. TBH, its possible that attaining EMS could also be something that only Indra can do. It could very well be a special bloodline selection much like Torune's micro bugs where only a select few in a clan can achieve. There being only one Indra just makes it really rare.

It could very well be that only Indra is able to reach the true height of the sharingan (EMS) and therefore only he can obtain the rinnengan. Logically speaking Hagoromo did give the tablet to Indra in the first place

Interesting. This might be true. However itachi seemed to imply that madara was not the only one who awakened the EMS. Also Indra could have never awakened EMS since he was the only one with the sharingan at the time. That is unless he had a child and took said child's eyes.

Even if only Indra and his reincarnations could awaken EMS it still does not explain why they can only gain the rinnegan by stealing genetic material from ashura and his reincarnations. Why won't any of ashura's descendants do. Why only his reincarnations? This can only be so if the reverse is the case for example after defeating madara hashirama would take his eyes and awaken the rinnegan.

Another thing to note is that sasuke and madara both of which are indra's reincarnations do not share any close genetic connection besides both being uchiha. Therefore getting EMS cannot be considered a specific bloodline selection. This once again comes back to the question I asked.

 

[Gerkak]

The good tree/fruit doesn't have Byukagan.

The sage said she had both eyes, and that when she ate the fruit she had the juubi's chakra.

She wasn't even human to begin with (prior to fruit)



Obito didn't have full uchiha kekkai genkai

Which is both original eyes, and the clans bloodline limit flowing through your vains.

He still had a little piece of the sage's chakra regardless.

The only difference is that to use inzanagi he has to waste an eye

He can use Gedo mazou to a certain degree

To use rikudou techniques/yin yang techniques he would need to use it through the black rod.

When he got the rinnegan, it didn't matter if he got his other eye or not.

I agree it doesn't

scan?

It doesn't matter whether she was human or not. If she had the byakugan before she ate the fruit then she must have had chakra. If she had chakra then she could have stopped the war without the need to approach a forbidden fruit. Madara and the sage said she gained chakra from the fruit. Which means her byakugan and sharingan came after the fruits consumption.

Everyone loses an eye if they use izanagi not just obito. It is an absolute rule.

He doesn't need the black rod to use in'yoton. Izangi for example is a yin-yang release technique. Obito didn't use any rod when he used it.

 

[VongolaX]

I agree it doesn't

scan?

It doesn't matter whether she was human or not. If she had the byakugan before she ate the fruit then she must have had chakra. If she had chakra then she could have stopped the war without the need to approach a forbidden fruit. Madara and the sage said she gained chakra from the fruit. Which means her byakugan and sharingan came after the fruits consumption.

Everyone loses an eye if they use izanagi not just obito. It is an absolute rule.

He doesn't need the black rod to use in'yoton. Izangi for example is a yin-yang release technique. Obito didn't use any rod when he used it.

The Kaguya parts baffling indeed.
I'll go back and read that part...

Many things regarding her family weren't explained.

Like how Indra was able to use perfect Susanoo without having a brother to transplant his eyes.
(Possibly could be because he had the sage's ocular chakra)

The sage used it and didn't go blind

The Obito I was referring to is the orange mask Obito.

In chapter 606 page 15-16

Madara said he teach him the techniques, but he'll need to use the black rod for it.

Obito when he got the transplanted rinnegan didn't need to use it for the rikudou Justus, but Inyouton he did.

Like when he created that Inyouton staff from black zetsu (black zetsu is the black rod into a humanoid form)

Juubi jinchuuriki automatically gets advance Inyouton techniques.

It's one of those bijuu special ability.

 

[ANiMUS]

Interesting. This might be true. However itachi seemed to imply that madara was not the only one who awakened the EMS. Also Indra could have never awakened EMS since he was the only one with the sharingan at the time. That is unless he had a child and took said child's eyes.

Even if only Indra and his reincarnations could awaken EMS it still does not explain why they can only gain the rinnegan by stealing genetic material from ashura and his reincarnations. Why won't any of ashura's descendants do. Why only his reincarnations? This can only be so if the reverse is the case for example after defeating madara hashirama would take his eyes and awaken the rinnegan.

Another thing to note is that sasuke and madara both of which are indra's reincarnations do not share any close genetic connection besides both being uchiha. Therefore getting EMS cannot be considered a specific bloodline selection. This once again comes back to the question I asked.

Actually, Itachi said that many tried, but he never said any succeeded.

Also, Madara and Sasuke may not have any direct relation, but they share Indra as a common ancestor. Its possible that Indra's descendants all carry the genetic potential to be Indra, but only on extremely rare cases does the trait become dominant. Kinda like a lottery :yeah:

As for the Senju taking EMS eyes and awakening the Rinnengan...... Its possible

 

[Legendary Saiyan]

Maybe the Rinnegan is a mix of the Byakugan and the 9T Sharingan. You know how the Byakugan sees chakra and how it's inverted? Makes sense how Sasuke could see the Limbo

 

[Gerkak]

Actually, Itachi said that many tried, but he never said any succeeded.

Also, Madara and Sasuke may not have any direct relation, but they share Indra as a common ancestor. Its possible that Indra's descendants all carry the genetic potential to be Indra, but only on extremely rare cases does the trait become dominant. Kinda like a lottery :yeah:

As for the Senju taking EMS eyes and awakening the Rinnengan...... Its possible

Hmm. Perhaps. But how come there cannot be 2 Indra's at the same time without the previous indra dying first. For example if madara had not died before sasuke was born sasuke would not have become indra. Also the sage said their chakra kept transmigrating he never said anything about genetics. It goes to show that the ability to become indra and ashura is not dependant on genetics so much as it is dependant on chakra transmigration. Naruto and Hashirama are good examples of this. They are not even from the same clans.

 

[Gerkak]

The Kaguya parts baffling indeed.
I'll go back and read that part...

Many things regarding her family weren't explained.

Like how Indra was able to use perfect Susanoo without having a brother to transplant his eyes.
(Possibly could be because he had the sage's ocular chakra)

The sage used it and didn't go blind

The Obito I was referring to is the orange mask Obito.

In chapter 606 page 15-16

Madara said he teach him the techniques, but he'll need to use the black rod for it.

Obito when he got the transplanted rinnegan didn't need to use it for the rikudou Justus, but Inyouton he did.

Like when he created that Inyouton staff from black zetsu (black zetsu is the black rod into a humanoid form)

Juubi jinchuuriki automatically gets advance Inyouton techniques.

It's one of those bijuu special ability.

Agreed.

Read it again. Obito was talking about COAT which izanagi was based on. The sage himself was never shown to use izanagi.

Madara said obito should use the black rod when using the six paths technique. That is if he wants to use 6POP like nagato. Not when using in'yoton

 

[ANiMUS]

Hmm. Perhaps. But how come there cannot be 2 Indra's at the same time without the previous indra dying first. For example if madara had not died before sasuke was born sasuke would not have become indra. Also the sage said their chakra kept transmigrating he never said anything about genetics. It goes to show that the ability to become indra and ashura is not dependant on genetics so much as it is dependant on chakra transmigration. Naruto and Hashirama are good examples of this. They are not even from the same clans.

Rebirth, to put it simply. The power is in all of the Uchiha genes, but only the one that Indra decides to be reborn as is born with Indra's chakra and potential. So basically Indra decides who is Indra.

 

[Keonramses]

Awesome Stuff Guys, Awesome Stuff.

 

[VongolaX]

Agreed.

Read it again. Obito was talking about COAT which izanagi was based on. The sage himself was never shown to use izanagi.

Madara said obito should use the black rod when using the six paths technique. That is if he wants to use 6POP like nagato. Not when using in'yoton

Okay the inzanagi thing you do have a point, but essentially they are the same Justu.

Inzanagi derieved from coat.

As for the rikudou justu, you're wrong.

Madara never stated Pain rikudou, that's nagato's Justu he created it.

Look up in viz, it stated six path Justus

How can Madara teach him pain rikudou without the six path Justus?

So, you're saying that he can control 6 dead bodies without the 6 path Justus?

That wouldn't make any sense and it would defeat the purpose.

The Inyouton that Obito use pre-juubi was the black rods he shot out of arm to cancel Sasuke's Amatersu.

The other is the staff he created from black zetsu after absorbing Madara's chakra (post juubi).

 

[Gerkak]

Rebirth, to put it simply. The power is in all of the Uchiha genes, but only the one that Indra decides to be reborn as is born with Indra's chakra and potential. So basically Indra decides who is Indra.

Precisely. Now to finally answer the question. Why does only a combination of Indra and ashura awaken the rinnegan? The sage himself does not reincarnate. If all uchiha have the potential to be indra because they have indra genes then they should all have the potential to awaken the rinnegan. The only difference being that uchiha who does become indra has a better chance of awakening it since he/she has both indra's genes and chakra. This isn't the case.

 

[Gerkak]

Okay the inzanagi thing you do have a point, but essentially they are the same Justu.

Inzanagi derieved from coat.

As for the rikudou justu, you're wrong.

Madara never stated Pain rikudou, that's nagato's Justu he created it.

Look up in viz, it stated six path Justus

How can Madara teach him pain rikudou without the six path Justus?

So, you're saying that he can control 6 dead bodies without the 6 path Justus?

That wouldn't make any sense and it would defeat the purpose.

The Inyouton that Obito use pre-juubi was the black rods he shot out of arm to cancel Sasuke's Amatersu.

The other is the staff he created from black zetsu after absorbing Madara's chakra (post juubi).

I agree madara did say rikudo no jutsu. But what is the six paths technique. Deva path, human path etc. Madara told obito to use the rod for them not inyoton. And why would someone use a rod to use shinra tensei. Only if they want to use paths in the same way nagato did. Obito later did the same thing during the war. Nagato did not create the jutsu. It is an ability of the outer path.

Obito also used inyoton to create his zetsu army. He didn't use any rods.

We still don't know whether obito used black zetsu to create the staff or black zetsu receeding from obito's hand was away of showing that obito regained more control of his body.

 

[ANiMUS]

Precisely. Now to finally answer the question. Why does only a combination of Indra and ashura awaken the rinnegan? The sage himself does not reincarnate. If all uchiha have the potential to be indra because they have indra genes then they should all have the potential to awaken the rinnegan. The only difference being that uchiha who does become indra has a better chance of awakening it since he/she has both indra's genes and chakra. This isn't the case.

It probably has to deal with chakra signatures. Chakra signatures are something ppl r born with. I don't know about Hashirama, but Naruto's chakra has been shown to resemble the sun which is Ashura's symbol so Ashura's chakra was probably the same.

Both Madara and Sasuke's Susanoo is the same color in the manga (Sasuke's is only purple in the anime) and their chakra has been noted as very similar. The sharingan is awakened and progresses in response to special chakras. If Ashura+Indra=Hagoromo then it is possible that the merging of the two chakra signatures causes the person's chakra to resemble Hagoromo's and therefore gives birth to the rinnengan.

 

[Gerkak]

It probably has to deal with chakra signatures. Chakra signatures are something ppl r born with. I don't know about Hashirama, but Naruto's chakra has been shown to resemble the sun which is Ashura's symbol so Ashura's chakra was probably the same.

Both Madara and Sasuke's Susanoo is the same color in the manga (Sasuke's is only purple in the anime) and their chakra has been noted as very similar. The sharingan is awakened and progresses in response to special chakras. If Ashura+Indra=Hagoromo then it is possible that the merging of the two chakra signatures causes the person's chakra to resemble Hagoromo's and therefore gives birth to the rinnengan.

I see. Now I understand. Thanks + rep.

Hashirama seems to be the only weird one. Because his chakra was never compared to naruto's. Apart from both being life giving.

Also both ashura and Naruto don't have wood release but hashirama does. Naruto and ashura seem more similar to each other than hashirama is to them.

 

[ANiMUS]

I see. Now I understand. Thanks + rep.

Hashirama seems to be the only weird one. Because his chakra was never compared to naruto's. Apart from both being life giving.

Also both ashura and Naruto don't have wood release but hashirama does. Naruto and Ashura seem more similar to each other than hashirama is to them.

Thanks and yeah, Hashirama was the weird one of the bunch. The only thing we got as far as Similarities between him and Naruto is that monologue from Tobirama in where he said that their personalities are different and they both seem to draw others towards them. Seeing how a person's nature is often reflected in their chakra, this could point to Hashirama also having similar chakra to Naruto.

As far as Hashirama's abilities go I am certain that his special chakra as ashura is what allowed him to utilize mokuton. The power of Ashura's chakra deals with physical energy and vitality. I believe that Ashura's chakra is expressed strictly in Hashirama's and the effects of his chakra.

 

[VongolaX]

I agree madara did say rikudo no jutsu. But what is the six paths technique. Deva path, human path etc. Madara told obito to use the rod for them not inyoton. And why would someone use a rod to use shinra tensei. Only if they want to use paths in the same way nagato did. Obito later did the same thing during the war. Nagato did not create the jutsu. It is an ability of the outer path.

Obito also used inyoton to create his zetsu army. He didn't use any rods.

We still don't know whether obito used black zetsu to create the staff or black zetsu receeding from obito's hand was away of showing that obito regained more control of his body.

Obito with the orange mask(meaning no rinnegan, just uchiha/senju kekkai genkai combined) used rikudou Justus just like how yahiko pain used Deva path (Black rod)

Same way how Madara was able to absorb Sasuke and Hashirama.

Uchiha and senju combined brings happiness (sage's powers)


When he got the rinnegan, he was able to use it like Edo Nagato.
(But decided to use it in the end)

The rikudou pain was never mentioned from Madara, neither did he use it too.

Obito used the rinnegan most to control 7 bijuus via outer path.

Controlling the power of all 7 bijuus is too much chakra conception to use, especially with rikudou Justu on top of that.

The white zetsu creation process was used by connecting Gedo with tree flower by Madara.

Obito just increase the process by giving it bijuu chakra

 

[InvaderRaz]

Rinnegan is the result of the byakugan mutating with the juubi eye

 

[Darkakatsuki]

I agree that kaguya's power split. The uchiha tablet is wrong about how the rinnegan is awakened. I know this because of what the rikudo said. He said that madara awakened the rinnegan because he combined his power(indra) with hashirama's power(ashura). It is the only way for the rinnegan to be unlocked.

You say obito didn't awaken the rinnegan because he didn't have EMS? I disagree. I will use itachi as an example. If itachi had killed sasuke and had taken his eyes and awakened EMS, and later aqcuired hashirama or naruto's cells he still wouldn't be able to awaken the rinnegan because he lacks Indra's chakra. This once again leads back to what the sage said. Only with both ashura and indra's chakra in one body can one awaken the rinnegan. Why it doesn't make sense is because the rinnegan has nothing to do with bloodline inheritence like the sharingan and byakugan but chakra inheritence. But why should be different?

You are blatantly wrong on that one. If you need both the Sage's chakra/dna together to unlock the rinnegan, then Itachi would unlock it based on the scenario you described. Why? Because to get EMS, Itachi needs Sasuke's eyes, and guess what, Sasuke is Indra's reincarnation. So if he adds Naruto's or Hashi's dna like you said, he would have dna and chakra from both the sons, and therefore would awaken rinnegan.