[Discussion] Why is Smoker so weak?

[A v i]

I don't think he's weak and he's not a rival of Luffy any more as he can't match him at this point.

I believe that he's as strong as or a lil stronger than Sanji.

 

[Red Swag]

hes just not at their lvl. IMO hes around sanji lvl.

 

[A v i]

Rank doesn't equal strength not all the Yonkou are the same in power - not all the Admirals are same in power not all the Warlords are the same in power so just because Zoro is currently gaining the advantage of Pica doesn't mean he could beat Vergo. By feats and portrayal Vergo is far ahead of Pica he's the only Elite Executive that has been highlighted by Doflamingo really.

Wtf? What manga have u been reading? Admirals have been clearly portrayed to be near equals.

They have same rank in same crew which means that they are on same general level. Vergo is far ahead of others? where did u pulled that non sense?

Warlords and Yonko are different things. They are neither crew members nor the people that belongs to same organization like admirals so u can't compare them with seats.

By feats however I would have to say Smoker has the edge over Zoro like Yo Momma San said I believe Smoker sits in between Luffy and Zoro in regards to overall fighting capabilities.

What are those feats?

 

[Zorø]

Don't be stupid, I don't know why you even say that. Even you must know that he will be back soon and do some impressive stuff, Oda set him up for something bigger, you have to see that.

I hope when that time comes I still remember this comment so I can make you eat your words. Maybe I should add it to my sig, you've got a reputation of saying stupid things.



Isn't it just as baseless as you putting him above Sanji ?



You can hardly measure anything from Sanji Vs Vergo, they were both in a hurry and neither got serious like Smoker Vs. Vergo.

You can go ahead and add it to youre sig big man if it makes you feel any better about your life I probably wont even be on NB by that time comes so dont count on it.....also of course smoker will get stronger but will I be impressed? No. In the end he will always be a fodder and I doubt he will be stronger than anyone in the M3 by EOS U_U.

 

[Magi]

I agree. Coby is probably stronger than him now lol

 

[TheHokage]

Wtf? What manga have u been reading? Admirals have been clearly portrayed to be near equals.

Near equals maybe but the point isn't that their equals. The point was they aren't equal in strength which is a fact take Akainu and Aokiji for example yes their battle lasted 10 days however it was made quite clear Akainu was stronger thus making the gap in strength.

They have same rank in same crew which means that they are on same general level. Vergo is far ahead of others? where did u pulled that non sense?

Well by feats, hype and portrayal for one thing. Vergo was highlighted as Doflamingo to be his right hand man, he was the first Corazon and could smack Sanji, Smoker and Law around something Pica is not able to and unless you're that much of a Zoro fanboy and believe Zoro is that ahead of Sanji and Smoker it's obvious Vergo was significantly stronger than the other Elite Executives - also Rank doesn't equal strength.

Warlords and Yonko are different things. They are neither crew members nor the people that belongs to same organization like admirals so u can't compare them with seats.

No it's not different yet again you fail to understand the point. Yonkou and Warlords are titles exactly the same as an Elite Executive and I can compare them in this situation you're just cherry picking because you don't have a good enough argument to stand on the point is a title doesn't equal strength just because someone has one title doesn't mean they are as strong as each other Vice Admirals aren't the same level of strength their's people like Garp, Vergo and Smoker then there's people like Maynard there's a clear difference in strength.

What are those feats?

Well for one Smoker has shown greater CoA Haki than Zoro so far and he's shown greater speed feats than Zoro so far are you starting to get the point Zoro has shown nothing as of yet that puts him above Smoker other than a powerful large scale attack which in a fight against someone like Smoker would be useless.

I don't think he's weak and he's not a rival of Luffy any more as he can't match him at this point.

I believe that he's as strong as or a lil stronger than Sanji.

You actually believe that Oda is going to throw a rivalry he's spent over 10 years making you're deluded.

I agree. Coby is probably stronger than him now lol

What a dumbass, Coby is a featless fodder at the moment, this is the problem with the majority of the One Piece fandom they base strength on hype rather than feats Coby has nothing to his name other than being knocked out in one hit by an injured non Gear 2nd Luffy.

 

[Hori 👑]

Because Smoker got cocky when he ate that smoke logia devil fruit. Like any other logia they slack when training because they depend too much on their DF. Also his fighting style is much suited to combat other DF which is why he uses that Kairoseki jittle. Alsoyou guys when Smoker fought Doffy he was not at full power because he didn't have his stick around as Vergo broke it, I'm sure that if he had it, he would have given Doffy a good fight.

 

[A v i]

Near equals maybe but the point isn't that their equals. The point was they aren't equal in strength which is a fact take Akainu and Aokiji for example yes their battle lasted 10 days however it was made quite clear Akainu was stronger thus making the gap in strength.

Do u even know how to read? No one ever said that Pica and Vergo are equal because they share similar position. They are on the same general level for all we know and same goes for admirals. The gap b/w them is negligible and the gap won't increase just because Akainu became F.Admiral. Even Luffy vs Lucci didn't lasted much longer despite of them being clear equals which means that the gap b/w Akainu and Aokiji is even smaller than the gap b/w Lucci and Luffy during NL arc. Regardless my point is that they are on the same general level which was clearly proved by manga and same goes for Jokers team. Vergo and Pica are on the same general level hence both of them are below Zoro who's beating Pica with no problem.

 

[xanonymosx]

Well for one Smoker has shown greater CoA Haki than Zoro so far and he's shown greater speed feats than Zoro so far are you starting to get the point Zoro has shown nothing as of yet that puts him above Smoker other than a powerful large scale attack which in a fight against someone like Smoker would be useless.

and that`s just baseless


as useless as oni take

 

[A v i]

Well by feats, hype and portrayal for one thing. Vergo was highlighted as Doflamingo to be his right hand man, he was the first Corazon and could smack Sanji, Smoker and Law around something Pica is not able to and unless you're that much of a Zoro fanboy and believe Zoro is that ahead of Sanji and Smoker it's obvious Vergo was significantly stronger than the other Elite Executives - also Rank doesn't equal strength.

Rank doesn't equal strength yet you are implying that he's above others just because he has the title called Cora? Don't overlook the fact that a mentally challenged dude that can't even talk properly attained that title after Vergo.hmm

I admit that Vergo might be stronger but he's not on a whole new level. Vergo has nothing that can put a dent on Picas statue for all we know and same goes for Smoker as well as Sanji. You should accept the fact that Zoro is stronger than your fav character and stop fanboying.

Vergo is no match for Law as already proved by manga.

No it's not different yet again you fail to understand the point. Yonkou and Warlords are titles exactly the same as an Elite Executive and I can compare them in this situation you're just cherry picking because you don't have a good enough argument to stand on the point is a title doesn't equal strength just because someone has one title doesn't mean they are as strong as each other Vice Admirals aren't the same level of strength their's people like Garp, Vergo and Smoker then there's people like Maynard there's a clear difference in strength.

Lmao, Yonko and Warlords are clearly different story. They have nothing to do with each other apart from having same title. It makes 0 sense if u compare them with people from same crew.Joker believes that Luffy has grater potential than Law yet he sent Diamante to deal with Luffy despite of knowing the fact that Vergo lost to against Law which would also help me to say that they are on the same level.

As I said above Vergo has shown nothing that can took down Picas statue as easily as Zoro to make me believe that he's on a whole new level. He might be able to beat Pica but it'll be high dif hence they are on the same level.

Well for one Smoker has shown greater CoA Haki than Zoro so far and he's shown greater speed feats than Zoro so far are you starting to get the point Zoro has shown nothing as of yet that puts him above Smoker other than a powerful large scale attack which in a fight against someone like Smoker would be useless.

Grater haki? Lmao, how did u made that conclusion? His haki is good for nothing against Vergo where as Zoro's attack destroyed half of statue something even Luffy's strongest attack till now couldn't do. Even Don Chinjo's most powerful attack with massive help can only destroy a hand of statue where as Zoro casually destroyed half of statue. Imagine the same slash with haki.hmm He don't need speed as long as he has that devastating striking speed. Speed means nothing when your opponent has grater striking speed than u . Smoker didn't show anything on the level of that large scale attack nor his speed is good enough to help him to dodge that large scale attack.

You actually believe that Oda is going to throw a rivalry he's spent over 10 years making you're deluded.

They were never portrayed to be rivals to began with.

Luffy is no match for Smoker back then and similarly Smoker is no match for Luffy now. Simple as that.

 

[ultraChalk]

He fought against 3 shichibukai so far, all of them beat him without much effort. Hancock whooped Smoker's ass in the Marineford war, Law literally humiliated Smoker in Punk Hazard, Doflamingo neg diff Smoker as well

Wasn't Smoker shown as Luffy's rival earlier in the series? Is the rivalry/competition already over? :/

Wrong!

Smoker actually has the most impressive resume of One Piece, more impressive than most other characters. He's faced 3 Shickibukai and walked away alive, has had the closest contact with Dragon in the series and still survived it, survived an encounter with Doflamingo WHILE SEVERELY INJURED, faced off with Mingos second strongest in his crew and walked away without even really trying to win, faced off with Luffy numerous times and beat him numerous times, and faced Law, keeping him on the fence for 90% of their match until he took a stab to the heart, and tied with Ace. That's 4 D's he's encountered, defeating 1 3 times, tying with his stronger brother, and then finally losing to only one of them, after the timeskip.

Not many others have went through and survived what Smoker has gone through! And you are most definitely incorrect about Smoker getting his ass whooped by Hancock. He got kicked twice, and they fought and she didn't beat him but he didn't beat her. That itself is a very impressive display of his real power. She was aiming to kill him, but still couldn't, saying herself 'I've never been so infuriated in all my life'.

Smoker has faced some of the strongest characters of this generation. He's encountered Dragon, beat Luffy, tied w/ Ace, faced off with a raged Hancock, lost to Law on a whim, and Mingo while he was injured, and his greatest subordinate. That's more than what most others can say.

I'd also like to mention that Oda lately has been using Smoker as a hype character. How can you guys not see this? He beats and ties with the main character and his brother and a powerful war lord in part 1, only before losing a few times in part 2. Oda is using him as a hypeman to prove others strength which I dislike. But just you guys wait till he comes back and starts kicking ass, then you'll see his true power...

 

[U mAd]

smoker is relatively weaker then i excepted him to be after the time skip.luffy low diffs him and mid high diffs him.sanji high diffs him..

 

[TheHokage]

Do u even know how to read? No one ever said that Pica and Vergo are equal because they share similar position. They are on the same general level for all we know and same goes for admirals. The gap b/w them is negligible and the gap won't increase just because Akainu became F.Admiral. Even Luffy vs Lucci didn't lasted much longer despite of them being clear equals which means that the gap b/w Akainu and Aokiji is even smaller than the gap b/w Lucci and Luffy during NL arc. Regardless my point is that they are on the same general level which was clearly proved by manga and same goes for Jokers team. Vergo and Pica are on the same general level hence both of them are below Zoro who's beating Pica with no problem. [/FONT][/I]

Okay then tell me how do you come to the conclusion that Pica and Vergo are on a similar level if you are not using the position or title as the basis of your argument. Nothing has ever shown Pica and Vergo to be on a similar level.

and that`s just baseless


as useless as oni take

Not really Smoker was shown beating Vergo in speed who was matching Sanji who is actually faster than Zoro not to mention he was able to keep up with Law who was in his room so my argument isn't baseless what speed feat does Zoro have against an opponent that's not a fodder.

Rank doesn't equal strength yet you are implying that he's above others just because he has the title called Cora? Don't overlook the fact that a mentally challenged dude that can't even talk properly attained that title after Vergo.

I'm not implying anything I'm stating that Vergo is the strongest the Corazon seat has always been slightly more significant than the others.

I admit that Vergo might be stronger but he's not on a whole new level. Vergo has nothing that can put a dent on Picas statue for all we know and same goes for Smoker as well as Sanji. You should accept the fact that Zoro is stronger than your fav character and stop fanboying.

Vergo was shown bending metal walls with the after affect of his Haki hits...and Vergo doesn't need to beat Pica's statue all he has to do is beat Pica and a characters strength isn't based on the destructive power of his attacks lol. Funny you say I'm fanboying yet you're the one with your picture as Zoro...your name as Zoro and I don't have to accept anything Zoro has shown nothing impressive that puts him above Smoker I'm just being logical the person who has been gunning for Luffy's head isn't going to be weaker than the second strongest in the crew do you not see how as a plot point that fails.

Vergo is no match for Law as already proved by manga.

A over confident Vergo isn't a match for Law but as we saw in the Manga Vergo was able to speed blitz Law while Law was in his room.

Grater haki? Lmao, how did u made that conclusion? His haki is good for nothing against Vergo where as Zoro's attack destroyed half of statue something even Luffy's strongest attack till now couldn't do. Even Don Chinjo's most powerful attack with massive help can only destroy a hand of statue where as Zoro casually destroyed half of statue. Imagine the same slash with haki. He don't need speed as long as he has that devastating striking speed. Speed means nothing when your opponent has grater striking speed than u . Smoker didn't show anything on the level of that large scale attack nor his speed is good enough to help him to dodge that large scale attack.

Well considering Smoker's Haki protected him from Law in Law's room during the fight it also helped inflict damage on Vergo who was practically a walking tank, Smoker's Haki feats are far greater than Zoro's who's only Haki feat to date is cutting Monet on the cheek. Again your confusing a characters destructive capability with their overall strength big flashy moves like the one Zoro did works well on large opponents like Pica it wouldn't work well on smaller, faster and more agile opponents like Vergo, Smoker or Sanji.

Again with speed feats including the one's I stated above Smoker was shown being able to dodge practically a point blank cut from Law.

They were never portrayed to be rivals to began with.

Luffy is no match for Smoker back then and similarly Smoker is no match for Luffy now. Simple as that.

No just Smoker vowing to catch and defeat Luffy doesn't count - Smoker and Luffy fighting each other everytime they meet one another doesn't count - you say Smoker was no match for Luffy back then what's the win loss record in their fights again? 2 - 0 to Smoker I believe.

Smoker is a consistent character who appears to fight Luffy and as long as that is his goal and he keeps appearing which he will he'll always be above Zoro as like I said it makes no sense for Smoker who has been chasing after the strongest in the crew since East Blue to be weaker than the second strongest it's like Garp being weaker than Rayleigh.

smoker is relatively weaker then i excepted him to be after the time skip.luffy low diffs him and mid high diffs him.sanji high diffs him..

Yeah that's not true.

 

[VongolaX]

He's not as weak as you think he is

 

[A v i]

Okay then tell me how do you come to the conclusion that Pica and Vergo are on a similar level if you are not using the position or title as the basis of your argument. Nothing has ever shown Pica and Vergo to be on a similar level.

I didn't said that i wasn't using their status as an argument it was you who used used Vergos status to say that he's stronger and it was u who said that rank doesn't equal to strength in same argument. I just pointed out that mistake of yours.

Not really Smoker was shown beating Vergo in speed who was matching Sanji who is actually faster than Zoro not to mention he was able to keep up with Law who was in his room so my argument isn't baseless what speed feat does Zoro have against an opponent that's not a fodder.

Did I said that Zoro is as fast as Smoker/Sanji/Vergo? The battle b/w Smoker and Vergo was CQC so you can't determine his speed form that battle. Regarless,Zoro has faster striking speed than Sanji who managed to match blows with Vergo hence Vergo/Smokers speed can't help them against Vergo. Faster striking speed> Having speed.

I'm not implying anything I'm stating that Vergo is the strongest the Corazon seat has always been slightly more significant than the others.

As I said before being Cora won't make him stronger and there is nothing that implies this. Even if he Vergo is stronger than others there is absolutely nothing that puts him on a whole new level. Once again remember that a mentally challenged dude was 2nd cora.

Vergo was shown bending metal walls with the after affect of his Haki hits...and Vergo doesn't need to beat Pica's statue all he has to do is beat Pica and a characters strength isn't based on the destructive power of his attacks lol.

Don Chinjaos haki has better hype as well as feats than Vergos haki yet his most powerful attack couldn't do shit against statue same goes for Vergo. There is no need for Pica to come out of statue.hmm He can stay inside and play with Vergo until he runs out of juice.

Funny you say I'm fanboying yet you're the one with your picture as Zoro...your name as Zoro

I have never used fanboy thing as an excuse like you.It is you who bought that non sense and stop acting like you are any better than me. Everyone knew that you are posting arguments because you can't stand the fact that Zoro > Smoker.hmm

I don't have to accept anything Zoro has shown nothing impressive that puts him above Smoker

You are yet to show me something from Smoker than can beat 1080 pound cannon.hmm

I'm just being logical the person

Stop joking man.:leaf:

who has been gunning for Luffy's head isn't going to be weaker than the second strongest in the crew do you not see how as a plot point that fails.

It is a canon fact: Zoro's attack did more damage than Luffys attack and anyone with 2 good eyes can see that.

A over confident Vergo isn't a match for Law but as we saw in the Manga Vergo was able to speed blitz Law while Law was in his room.

Stop making excuses: He lost against Law and you should accept manga facts.

Well considering Smoker's Haki protected him from Law in Law's room during the fight it also helped inflict damage on Vergo who was practically a walking tank, Smoker's Haki feats are far greater than Zoro's who's only Haki feat to date is cutting Monet on the cheek.

Lmao, Smoker did significant damage to Vergo so I have no reason to believe that he has better haki feats.


[quoote]
Again your confusing a characters destructive capability with their overall strength big flashy moves like the one Zoro did works well on large opponents like Pica it wouldn't work well on smaller, faster and more agile opponents like Vergo, Smoker or Sanji.[/quote]

WTH? Why do u think they use haki? It is to increase the strength of their attack and Zoro has shown to have great deal of that strength without even using haki. He managed to pull a feat that even some one like Luffy with his haki couldn't. Zoro isn't a DF user to pull large scale attacks with out being a skilled fighter. There is a big difference b/w non DF users that can use large scale attacks and DF users.

Again with speed feats including the one's I stated above Smoker was shown being able to dodge practically a point blank cut from Law.

Once again speed means nothing against Zoro.

No just Smoker vowing to catch and defeat Luffy doesn't count - Smoker and Luffy fighting each other everytime they meet one another doesn't count - you say Smoker was no match for Luffy back then what's the win loss record in their fights again? 2 - 0 to Smoker I believe.

I don't get what you are trying to imply here and nothing explains why they are rivals.

Smoker is weaker than Law who's on the same boat as Luffy hence he's weaker than Luffy. simple as that

Smoker is a consistent character who appears to fight Luffy and as long as that is his goal and he keeps appearing which he will he'll always be above Zoro as like I said it makes no sense for Smoker who has been chasing after the strongest in the crew since East Blue to be weaker than the second strongest it's like Garp being weaker than Rayleigh.

First of all Smoker being similar to Garp is something Oda never implied. If anything it is you who is making this up for the sake of your own argument.

 

[The Great Second Hokage]

Watch your mouth son....smoker is probably the most underrated character in the series so far

 

[TheHokage]

Did I said that Zoro is as fast as Smoker/Sanji/Vergo? The battle b/w Smoker and Vergo was CQC so you can't determine his speed form that battle. Regarless,Zoro has faster striking speed than Sanji who managed to match blows with Vergo hence Vergo/Smokers speed can't help them against Vergo. Faster striking speed> Having speed.

Yes I can determine the speed from that fight Smoker was shown getting the better of Vergo in speed when he punched Vergo in the face sending him flying. To be honest I've seen you putting striking speed as if it's relevant Zoro is slower than Sanji in every way.

Don Chinjaos haki has better hype as well as feats than Vergos haki yet his most powerful attack couldn't do shit against statue same goes for Vergo. There is no need for Pica to come out of statue.hmm He can stay inside and play with Vergo until he runs out of juice.

A half powered king's punched matched Chinjao's headbutt...and Bartolomeo was able to block a full powered one. That's a very ideal situation you've played out in your mind there but you're forgetting Vergo knows Pica he's faster than Pica his Haki would tear Pica apart.

I have never used fanboy thing as an excuse like you.It is you who bought that non sense and stop acting like you are any better than me. Everyone knew that you are posting arguments because you can't stand the fact that Zoro > Smoker.hmm

Everyone? Who's everyone you and the rest of the Zorotard fanbase where you dream about badass one liners and getting lost and being completely irrelevant to the plot until it comes to a fight yeah everyone...also you wouldn't have replied to my original comment if you weren't so butt hurt over my opinion of Smoker > Zoro

You are yet to show me something from Smoker than can beat 1080 pound cannon.hmm

He doesn't need a destructive move...Smoker wouldn't need something that destructive to beat Zoro just good ole Haki. I find it funny how your entire argument of how Zoro is stronger than Smoker is based on the destructive capacity of an attack.

It is a canon fact: Zoro's attack did more damage than Luffys attack and anyone with 2 good eyes can see that.

I don't see how this is relevant to my comment...Luffy>Zoro though.

Stop making excuses: He lost against Law and you should accept manga facts.

He did lose no one's denying that but ignoring important points in the fight such as Vergo being confident to take Law's cut and not trying to dodge is purely deluding yourself. Vergo has the capability of beating Law in speed had Vergo attempted to dodge rather than take the cut the fight may have went differently.

Lmao, Smoker did significant damage to Vergo so I have no reason to believe that he has better haki feats.

Well considering both Sanji and Law used strong attacks on Vergo who brushed them off like it was nothing a normal Haki punch doing damage is quite impressive.

WTH? Why do u think they use haki? It is to increase the strength of their attack and Zoro has shown to have great deal of that strength without even using haki. He managed to pull a feat that even some one like Luffy with his haki couldn't. Zoro isn't a DF user to pull large scale attacks with out being a skilled fighter. There is a big difference b/w non DF users that can use large scale attacks and DF users.
[/FONT][/I]

And the point of this quote was? Well done you've acknowledged Haki makes an attack stronger doesn't change the fact my original point remain someone who has a larger destructive capability isn't necessarily weaker than someone with a lesser destructive capability.

Once again speed means nothing against Zoro.

Oh what is Zoro now Batman? So Kizaru can do nothing against Zoro I mean he has light speed but hell it's Zoro so speed doesn't matter, stop being a delusional fool speed is needed in a fight just as much as strength if someone is faster than Zoro then naturally they have an advantage over him in that aspect.

I don't get what you are trying to imply here and nothing explains why they are rivals.

Smoker is weaker than Law who's on the same boat as Luffy hence he's weaker than Luffy. simple as that

Smoker isn't that much weaker than Law and for all we know Luffy is weaker than Law feats actually indicate this however I never said Smoker was stronger than Luffy. Smoker is at a level he could give Luffy a decent high level fight. It's always been Law>=Luffy>Smoker>Zoro>Sanji in my opinion.

First of all Smoker being similar to Garp is something Oda never implied. If anything it is you who is making this up for the sake of your own argument.

No but the similarities are to obvious to miss a Marine constantly hunting down and fighting the future pirate king across the Grand Line...sound familiar? If Smoker was as irrelevant and weak as you like to believe Oda wouldn't constantly highlight Smoker's resolve to fight Luffy and keep him constantly crossing paths with Luffy.

 

[Bogard]

The notion that Zoro is slow never cease to amaze me. Some of you guys don't seem to know the difference between top speed, striking speed and reaction speed. All what Sanji has over Zoro is his top speed with blue/sky walk, by continuously hiting ground/air to close distances faster. Nowhere in this manga however was Sanji showed to have better striking speed/reaction speed than Zoro. Infact, if we look at feats/hype, Zoro beats him in the category as it stands(dodging light speed attacks preskip, tagging teleporting Kuma with shishisonson, told to move faster than fishmen on Hody's standard underwater postskip), same in terms of attacking speed(shishisonson, flying slashes are faster to cast), but i always like to put them on the same general level because i assume it to be the case considering Sanji's development

 

[Gintõki1]

He is for sure not that weak you're trying to make him look like.
I like him as a character, doesn't matter if he isn't one of the strongest in the series. (not every damn charcater has to be a top tier)

 

[Trollkage]

Smoker is weak because he is not strong