Who got on the defensive here? I don't get these things with defensive or offensive, really. I am bringing a point here, not defensive or offensive. If it is the way you interpret it, it doesn't mean you are right, like you told me that, remember? It's all matter of perception. I could also call you, why on the offensive? Feeling like the defensive is too durable? I mean, you are the one who said to me that you don't spend your time on anime forums because you have better things to do. First of all, did I ask you what are you doing with your life? With your time? Did I need to bring down things like that with hidden message? Look, if you want to say something, say it straight and right, don't come with detours and insinuations, in order to get offensive at some level. I think we are both mature individuals who can have a discussion of such without pleading at such moves, don't you think?
I already told you that you seem a different person from what I've met around, and I'd like to keep my opinion like that. Let's not come down to such things, shall we?
But anyway, that's another part. Let's get moving to our discussion. Hope we have that clear.
The only reason he does it, it's because he was forced to make a promise? Hmm, you seemed to have missed the part
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, as well as the part where
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to take him for the mission and Naruto
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without even thinking twice! This was before Sakura asked him to bring Sasuke back. As well, idea reinforced years later, when he says to her
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.
That promise was more as a part of their bond. Naruto just wanted to see her happy, that's why he promised he will bring him back, however, he had his own reasons to do it.
Sakura's PoaL just enforced this desire to bring Sasuke back.
And I do believe it wasn't an act when Sakura confessed. Why? Because he had just had his confrontation with Pein, who put all his ideals about peace to doubt, as well as, he learned about understanding. That's "why he says, I feel I can understand him more now". "Why he went obsessed with the revenge" so on and so forth.
Because in his confrontation with Pein, Nagato has just explained him why does he do what Naruto considered to be a "take of revenge on Konoha". And Nagato via Pein, explained him about his parents death and what made him come where he was there. Therefore, Naruto understands the reason why Sasuke does what he does.
The whole Pein thing is also a hidden message of understanding Sasuke's action. And in the end, my guess is that, they'll come to an understanding, both Naruto and Sasuke.
And after they're fight, I'm sure that there will be some sort of pain that will bring them together.
Dunno, anyway, that's a guess and a theory of mine. Have many, but won't go further with that since it's not the subject we're treating it here.
That wall thing had another meaning to it. It was about the expression of their feelings towards their common point: Sasuke. But seems like you didn't get it. So we should get past it, I guess.
"Trouncing"? Or "touching?" sorry, but the former is not a word I'm familiar with and I can't form an answer based on that.
If you'd like to explain it to me so that I can come up with one, I'd be really grateful.
As well as the age matter. Some have, some haven't.
It's different to each character. Even if they're in war, it doesn't mean they have to be mature, necessarily.
Look at Naruto, how mature he looked back in Pein Arc, he was starting to really grow and act more to his supposed age, yet, he has regressed to the point where Hinata needed to give him a pep talk. Really now? Do you see how much he has fallen? I consider this highly regressed. And a quite not-so-good writing from Kishi's part, but I see the reasoning behind it, so I guess is OK.
He is still that dense individual who has learned nothing. From there comes Itachi's pep talk. Since you mentioned it, you look at it from a point, but I fairly believe you missed one.
Why Itachi has been able to give him all those pep talks and "see" underneath the underneath? Because Itachi has walked the same footsteps as Naruto had. Itachi is a matured individual who went trough many things similar with Naruto.
He said to him "not to over do it on his own" because he had tried to do everything on his own and failed.
That's why Itachi was able to see through, as you say. Because he had passed through an experience like this and knows what lies ahead. That's why he was the only one able to pep talk him.
Naruto is stubborn and dense about his decisions. So was Itachi, therefore the "his own and failed". He is that ninja because of the experiences he lived.
Whereas Sakura didn't.
As for Sakura lacking the depth, I fairly believe you're wrong again, sorry to call it.
In the given context, I think you missed the Chapter "Path towards Radiance".
Let's take a look at what she thinks.
"Naruto... You saved Konoha. And now you're trying to save the entire shinobi world... You always get with these insurmountable tasks.
But no matter what you say this time, we're going to be together. Not just me, we're going to all fight together this time".
See, here's the interesting part. This can be fairly translated into what Itachi pep talked him into.
And let me make it as clear as possible.
But no matter what you say this time (Sakura) =
Don't over do it yourself (Itachi).
In his meeting with Itachi he was like "No, I will stop it! I already said it, leave everything to me!" therefore, after came the "Don't overdo it on your own".
We're going to be together. We're all going to fight together this time (Sakura) = Don't forget your friends (Itachi)
Itachi saw in him the same thing Sakura saw in him. That he's trying to shoulder everything on his own. She saw that on her own not in Pein Arc, where he did the same mistake and told everyone to back-off, and she listened, but also in Sasuke matter. How he refuses to leave anyone to get involved in his battle with Sasuke, where Konoha 11(well, now 10) told him that they will aid him in Sasuke matter and he was all "No, no, I'm the only one who can fight Sasuke".
So basically, after seeing this, the same things Itachi saw, but in different cases, Sakura took the same decision as Itachi advised Naruto to do. Meaning, no matter what he says, she won't let him fight alone, all of them are going to help him, resulting in the not overdoing it by his own. Sakura has the same resolution Itachi had.
So, sorry, but I strongly disagree to you she has no character depth. Arguably, she has the most character depth in this manga.
I get that no one reacts the same way in the given situations. Hell, I have no problem with that and I've said it million times. I have a problem with people who purely bash and play double standards.
I mean, when it comes to debates we all need to remain a stance of objectivity, not the other way around, or else we'll drop in the previous mentioned, double standard fallacy.
In simpler words, holding a state of opinion for something you favor without admitting it it applies in instances you don't favor. Namely, this whole Sakura vs. Hinata thing. Some are so ok with Hinata's yet they bash on Sakura, but if they'd stop playing double standards, they would see they both have either something to be ok with or something to not be ok with, that can, for either cases, be 'excused' by what caused both of them to act that way, given a certain situation. So, we have the people, who, play those double standards fallacies. "Well, Hinata did this, but she did it because she had her reasons. She's an angel!" to say it like this, in a simple example. Comes it to Sakura? "She did this because she's a bitch, OMG, I hate her!" without actually looking at the cause of the events, like they did with Hinata.
See what I mean here? That's my problem with people! And I gave the simple reason with Sakura vs. Hinata because it's the most vivid one. Of course it can be applied to other characters as well.
Indeed, it's all about opinion and perception. But if you're going to make a statement, be sure before, not to play double standards, as it sure looks quite bad to your own cause.
As for the last part of it, regarding Sakura, I think we already covered that up, didn't we?
And about "she's supposed to be" I'd argue that as well. Yes, she is the heroine of the series. But she's not the typical heroine you'd all expect, and I have my beliefs and facts that back this-up. But that's to be covered in another discussion, I think we should not extend or else, we'll loose ourselves in details.
but this guy dose make a point she is bossy and all of that ,but the thing is that in every anime there is someone like her ,without someone like her the anime world would lose its whole feel so to speak so u see the anime world needs people like her & hinata
