Why Hiruzen can defeat every Hokage except Naruto and Hashirama.

startup98 · Dec 13, 2017

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Believe in the Hype!

Fourth Databook proof!!!

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Translation: Hiruzen earned the title of professor for being a researcher. He was trained by both Hashirama and Tobirama, as the man that would succeed them. At a young age he showed greater talent than Tobirama. Ability in all Five Nature Alterations, Ability in all Hiden (clan techniques), Genjutsu, Ability in all Ninjutsu existing in Konoha which explains his reputation as the professor. His title of Professor is no joke, hence the essence of Hiruzen is his talent with ninjutsu. Everyone in the village is his family member

5 Elements - Not even his full power???

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Since Hiruzen was revived at old age, his chakra and power should be as low as before but wait... Tobirama states that the Hokage have been revived "close to original power" this means Hiruzen was revived weaker then he was alive at old age yet he was able to produce the 5 Elements at such mastery that it was even capable of stalemating the Buddha Statue while the 5 Kage couldn't. Just imagine his Prime.

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Hiruzen knows and could perform all non KKG Hidden Leaf Jutsu which equals = The use of the Ino–Shika–Chō at will with Kage Bunshin

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Broken Ninjutsu versatility

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Hiruzen utilizing the Inuzuka Clan's ability of an enhanced sense of smell to catch the 2 Hokage in complete darkness.

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Hidden Leaf Tech

Bringer of Darkness, Great Clone Explosion
Water Clone Technique
Water Release: Water Colliding Wave
Water Release: Water Dragon Bullet Technique
Water Release: Water Encampment Wall
Water Release: Water Trumpet
Demonic Illusion: Hell Viewing Technique
Earth Release: Double Suicide Decapitation Technique
Earth Release: Earth-Style Wall
Earth Release: Hiding Like a Mole Technique
Earth Release: Multiple Earth-Style Wall (Anime only)
Eight Gates
Evil Sealing Method
Eye Mind Reading
Front Lotus
Lion Combo
Multiple Shadow Clone Technique
One Thousand Years of Death
Shadow Clone Technique
Shadow Imitation Technique
Water Needle
Shadow of the Dancing Leaf
Summoning: Earth Release: Tracking Fang Technique
Wind Release: Great Breakthrough

Sarutobi Clan
Fire Release: Ash Pile Burning
Fire Release: Great Flame Technique
Earth Release Shadow Clone
Earth Release: Double Suicide Decapitation Technique
Earth Release: Earth Dragon Bullet
Earth Release: Earth Flow River
Earth Release: Earth-Style Wall
Fire Release: Fire Dragon Bullet
Fire Release: Fire Dragon Flame Bullet
Roof Tile Shuriken
Shadow Clone Technique
Shuriken Shadow Clone Technique
Summoning Technique (Monkey King: Enma)
Telescope Technique

Izunaka Clan
Beast Human Clone
Dynamic Marking
Fang Passing Fang
Fang Rotating Fang (Manga only) - Capable of crushing stone
Fang Wolf Fang - The power is great enough to dent a Rashōmon gate
Four Legs Technique
Human Beast Combination Transformation: Double-Headed Wolf
Passing Fang

Akimichi clan
Butterfly Bullet Bombing
Calorie Control
Double Human Bullet Tank
Human Bullet Tank
Multi-Size Technique
Partial Multi-Size Technique
Spiked Human Bullet Tank
Super Multi-Size Technique
Super Open Hand Slap

Nara clan
Black Spider Lily
Shadow Gathering Technique
Shadow Imitation Shuriken Technique
Shadow Imitation Technique
Shadow Sewing Technique
Shadow–Neck Binding Technique

Yamanaka Clan
Mind Body Disturbance Technique
Mind Body Switch Technique
Mind Clone Switch Technique
Mind Disturbance Dance Performance Technique (Anime only)
Mind Puppet Switch Cursed Seal Technique
Yamanaka Clan Telepathy

Uchiha Clan
Fire Release: Dragon Flame Release Song Technique
Fire Release: Great Dragon Fire Technique
Fire Release: Great Fireball Technique
Fire Release: Phoenix Sage Fire Technique
Fire Release: Phoenix Sage Flower Nail Crimson
Manipulating Windmill Triple Blades

Uzumaki Clan

Dead Demon Consuming Seal
Five Elements Unseal

OP Summoning Monkey King Enma

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The Third hokage's comrade in arms, the monkey king enma's transformation jutsu Characterized by the hardness of diamond and its at-will extensibility, Kongou Nyoi-Bou is Sandaime's"weapon of choice", so to speak and with it in hand he's made it through a world of war for an extended period of time.
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Enma is capable of using Transformation: Adamantine Staff, which allows him to turn into a extending and expanding staff that is as hard as adamantine, capable of cutting through the Shinju branches easily. By extending in staff form, Enma can even push Kurama out of Konoha rather easily. He is also able to produce various body parts, such as eyes or arms, from the staff. Additionally, Enma can still move on his own in the staff form, allowing him to return to Hiruzen. Enma can even clone himself in his staff form, turning him into any number of smaller staffs that he uses for Adamantine Prison Wall, a move that can even protect against Hashirama Senju's Wood Release techniques.

Durability Feats - Super Kage Bunshin???

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Hiruzen has shown to have excellent durability feats at age 69 with his Kage Bunshin as one of his clones was stabbed by Hashirama with 4 Kunai in the chest yet did not disperse until Hiruzen was done with it. He was also able to hold Orochimaru's soul for an hour long despite being stabbed through the chest by the Sword of Kusangi.

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Dangerous CQC

]Even past his Prime, Hiruzen had showed excellent Close Quarter Combat skills. Moments after sealing parts of his soul away to seal the Edo Hokage and exhausting his remaining Chakra on Kage Bunshin, he was still able to easily disarm Orochimaru from his Sword of Kusangi with great ease and catch him to prepare his sealing Jutsu. He was also able to easily break through the Shinju branches and save Naruto despite Tobirama and Minato unable to get through.

Strong fighters such as Aye couldn't do much against Wood Style from Madara. Only Onoki managed to destroy lots of Wood with his Jinton which even damaged edo-Madara. Tsunade destroying a Wood Clone don't count because it was merely a clone. Same with edo-Madara cutting Hashirama's Wood clone in half don't count. Tobirama failed to destroy all of the Juubi Wood Style with his Water Style Ninjutsu. Minato said he didn't have enough chakra to teleport Naruto away. Which means that Minato couldn't destroy the Wood either. He could only teleport Naruto away. That was his only option. The first time Madara used Wood Style, characters such as Gaara or Dodai were saying that it's GG right now because they can't do anything to that Wood. Only Naruto saved their asses. So you see, Kage level fighters like Tobirama, Minato, Gaara, Aye were powerless against Wood Style. But Hiruzen and a few others managed to cut through the Wood like paper. The only other person who had cut through the Wood so easily was EMS Sasuke with his Susanoo sword.

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Intelligence "The Professor"

Having been around the previous 3 Shinobi World War, Hiruzen's knowledge and experience in all forms of Shinobi combat are unparalleled. Although brief, we only get to see a glimpse of "The Professor"

One great example would include when Hiruzen combined the Reaper Death Seal with Kage Bunshin to try and seal multiple souls at once. This was a genius move because it would help delay the sealing of his own soul enough to go after Orochimaru's soul next.

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The last time we see a glimpse of Hiruzen's intelligence was when he personally engages Obito so that nobody needs to put their lives at risk, taking advantage of the fact that he's already dead to analyse Obito's abilities. By observing Obito's Truth-Seeking Balls with his specialty, the Shuriken Kage Bunshin, he theorizes that they are similar to the Third Tsuchikage's kekkei tōta in that they are a combination of multiple nature transformations. He also postulates that the Truth-Seeking Balls have limits to the duration of their malleability, but his upper body is destroyed immediately after that. He was able to deduce the Truth-Seeking Balls, (a technique that is beyond Shinobi knowledge) in mere seconds after seeing it

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Further Hype and Testimonials

Orochimaru admitting that he would be killed by a 59 year old Hiruzen.

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Danzo in his dying moments admitting inferiority despite possessing Izanagi, Kotoamatsukami and Hashirama's DNA.

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Kabuto, a spy who has spied on and knows all about the Shinobi countries states that an old Hiruzen was stronger then all the 5 Kage at the time. Just imagine his Prime.

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Even with the entire SA and 5 Kage, Shikamaru states that only Hiruzen could contend with Guruguru at the time.

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Considers himself to be the strongest in his group which also included Tobirama. Confident enough to take on the entire Kinkaku and survive.

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Extra Databook Hype

"The sandaime, in particular, was a genius nicknamed the 'Professor,' and was called the strongest of all the Hokage".

the Sandaime was the strongest.

Databook 1, Page 117

The "Professor" revered as the strongest Hokage in history.

Databook 1, Page 119

"History's Strongest", "Genius", etc., there are many words that describe the Sandaime Hokage.

DB2 Pg 84
Konohamaru paragraph:

Konohamaru, descended from Sandaime, who was praised as history’s strongest Hokage.

"Hiruzen in his Prime was able to counter every Leaf Jutsu in Existance including all MS and EMS skills." DB2 Pg 84

Konohamaru paragraph:

Konohamaru, descended from Sandaime, who was praised as history’s strongest Hokage.

He who even holds the affectionate name of "Professor," being well-versed in every jutsu that exists in the village of Konohagakure

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Rikudou Tobi · Dec 14, 2017

Hiruzen doesn't have secret arts, those require special chakra to use. And Hiruzen can't beat Kakashi and Tsunade.
He does have really durable shadow clones though. Non bias fact here.

Clown World · Dec 14, 2017

He beats tsunade and thats it.

Guntah · Dec 14, 2017

Rikudou Tobi said:
Hiruzen doesn't have secret arts, those require special chakra to use. And Hiruzen can't beat Kakashi and Tsunade.
He does have really durable shadow clones though. Non bias fact here.

@bold Was that ever actually really stated?

Avery Namikaze · Dec 14, 2017

He's impressive that's for sure but I doubt he has the speed to keep up with Minato or Tobirama in a serious fight. The only one I'd say he can beat hands down is Tsunade, Kakashi has copied over 1,000 Jutsu himself so he has just as much versatility.

Princess Kaguya · Dec 14, 2017

Hiruzen solos. It's been years and the hype train hasn't stopped.

Rikudou Tobi · Dec 14, 2017

Guntah said:
@bold Was that ever actually really stated?

Yes. But it mostly involves their physical or mental energy.
]

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startup98 · Dec 14, 2017

Rikudou Tobi said:
Yes. But it mostly involves their physical or mental energy.
]
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4th Databook states Hiruzen mastered Secret Techniques. (Hiden)

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Rikudou Tobi · Dec 14, 2017

startup98 said:
4th Databook states Hiruzen mastered Secret Techniques. (Hiden)

4th databook said that Hiruzen does not know any secret arts only summoning jutsu.

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SumnNarutoRelated · Dec 14, 2017

startup98 said:
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Believe in the Hype!

Fourth Databook proof!!!

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Translation: Hiruzen earned the title of professor for being a researcher. He was trained by both Hashirama and Tobirama, as the man that would succeed them. At a young age he showed greater talent than Tobirama. Ability in all Five Nature Alterations, Ability in all Hiden (clan techniques), Genjutsu, Ability in all Ninjutsu existing in Konoha which explains his reputation as the professor. His title of Professor is no joke, hence the essence of Hiruzen is his talent with ninjutsu. Everyone in the village is his family member

5 Elements - Not even his full power???

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Since Hiruzen was revived at old age, his chakra and power should be as low as before but wait... Tobirama states that the Hokage have been revived "close to original power" this means Hiruzen was revived weaker then he was alive at old age yet he was able to produce the 5 Elements at such mastery that it was even capable of stalemating the Buddha Statue while the 5 Kage couldn't. Just imagine his Prime.

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Hiruzen knows and could perform all non KKG Hidden Leaf Jutsu which equals = The use of the Ino–Shika–Chō at will with Kage Bunshin

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Broken Ninjutsu versatility

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Hiruzen utilizing the Inuzuka Clan's ability of an enhanced sense of smell to catch the 2 Hokage in complete darkness.

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Hidden Leaf Tech

Bringer of Darkness, Great Clone Explosion
Water Clone Technique
Water Release: Water Colliding Wave
Water Release: Water Dragon Bullet Technique
Water Release: Water Encampment Wall
Water Release: Water Trumpet
Demonic Illusion: Hell Viewing Technique
Earth Release: Double Suicide Decapitation Technique
Earth Release: Earth-Style Wall
Earth Release: Hiding Like a Mole Technique
Earth Release: Multiple Earth-Style Wall (Anime only)
Eight Gates
Evil Sealing Method
Eye Mind Reading
Front Lotus
Lion Combo
Multiple Shadow Clone Technique
One Thousand Years of Death
Shadow Clone Technique
Shadow Imitation Technique
Water Needle
Shadow of the Dancing Leaf
Summoning: Earth Release: Tracking Fang Technique
Wind Release: Great Breakthrough

Sarutobi Clan
Fire Release: Ash Pile Burning
Fire Release: Great Flame Technique
Earth Release Shadow Clone
Earth Release: Double Suicide Decapitation Technique
Earth Release: Earth Dragon Bullet
Earth Release: Earth Flow River
Earth Release: Earth-Style Wall
Fire Release: Fire Dragon Bullet
Fire Release: Fire Dragon Flame Bullet
Roof Tile Shuriken
Shadow Clone Technique
Shuriken Shadow Clone Technique
Summoning Technique (Monkey King: Enma)
Telescope Technique

Izunaka Clan
Beast Human Clone
Dynamic Marking
Fang Passing Fang
Fang Rotating Fang (Manga only) - Capable of crushing stone
Fang Wolf Fang - The power is great enough to dent a Rashōmon gate
Four Legs Technique
Human Beast Combination Transformation: Double-Headed Wolf
Passing Fang

Akimichi clan
Butterfly Bullet Bombing
Calorie Control
Double Human Bullet Tank
Human Bullet Tank
Multi-Size Technique
Partial Multi-Size Technique
Spiked Human Bullet Tank
Super Multi-Size Technique
Super Open Hand Slap

Nara clan
Black Spider Lily
Shadow Gathering Technique
Shadow Imitation Shuriken Technique
Shadow Imitation Technique
Shadow Sewing Technique
Shadow–Neck Binding Technique

Yamanaka Clan
Mind Body Disturbance Technique
Mind Body Switch Technique
Mind Clone Switch Technique
Mind Disturbance Dance Performance Technique (Anime only)
Mind Puppet Switch Cursed Seal Technique
Yamanaka Clan Telepathy

Uchiha Clan
Fire Release: Dragon Flame Release Song Technique
Fire Release: Great Dragon Fire Technique
Fire Release: Great Fireball Technique
Fire Release: Phoenix Sage Fire Technique
Fire Release: Phoenix Sage Flower Nail Crimson
Manipulating Windmill Triple Blades

Uzumaki Clan

Dead Demon Consuming Seal
Five Elements Unseal

OP Summoning Monkey King Enma

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The Third hokage's comrade in arms, the monkey king enma's transformation jutsu Characterized by the hardness of diamond and its at-will extensibility, Kongou Nyoi-Bou is Sandaime's"weapon of choice", so to speak and with it in hand he's made it through a world of war for an extended period of time.
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Enma is capable of using Transformation: Adamantine Staff, which allows him to turn into a extending and expanding staff that is as hard as adamantine, capable of cutting through the Shinju branches easily. By extending in staff form, Enma can even push Kurama out of Konoha rather easily. He is also able to produce various body parts, such as eyes or arms, from the staff. Additionally, Enma can still move on his own in the staff form, allowing him to return to Hiruzen. Enma can even clone himself in his staff form, turning him into any number of smaller staffs that he uses for Adamantine Prison Wall, a move that can even protect against Hashirama Senju's Wood Release techniques.

Durability Feats - Super Kage Bunshin???

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Hiruzen has shown to have excellent durability feats at age 69 with his Kage Bunshin as one of his clones was stabbed by Hashirama with 4 Kunai in the chest yet did not disperse until Hiruzen was done with it. He was also able to hold Orochimaru's soul for an hour long despite being stabbed through the chest by the Sword of Kusangi.

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Dangerous CQC

]Even past his Prime, Hiruzen had showed excellent Close Quarter Combat skills. Moments after sealing parts of his soul away to seal the Edo Hokage and exhausting his remaining Chakra on Kage Bunshin, he was still able to easily disarm Orochimaru from his Sword of Kusangi with great ease and catch him to prepare his sealing Jutsu. He was also able to easily break through the Shinju branches and save Naruto despite Tobirama and Minato unable to get through.

Strong fighters such as Aye couldn't do much against Wood Style from Madara. Only Onoki managed to destroy lots of Wood with his Jinton which even damaged edo-Madara. Tsunade destroying a Wood Clone don't count because it was merely a clone. Same with edo-Madara cutting Hashirama's Wood clone in half don't count. Tobirama failed to destroy all of the Juubi Wood Style with his Water Style Ninjutsu. Minato said he didn't have enough chakra to teleport Naruto away. Which means that Minato couldn't destroy the Wood either. He could only teleport Naruto away. That was his only option. The first time Madara used Wood Style, characters such as Gaara or Dodai were saying that it's GG right now because they can't do anything to that Wood. Only Naruto saved their asses. So you see, Kage level fighters like Tobirama, Minato, Gaara, Aye were powerless against Wood Style. But Hiruzen and a few others managed to cut through the Wood like paper. The only other person who had cut through the Wood so easily was EMS Sasuke with his Susanoo sword.
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Intelligence "The Professor"

Having been around the previous 3 Shinobi World War, Hiruzen's knowledge and experience in all forms of Shinobi combat are unparalleled. Although brief, we only get to see a glimpse of "The Professor"

One great example would include when Hiruzen combined the Reaper Death Seal with Kage Bunshin to try and seal multiple souls at once. This was a genius move because it would help delay the sealing of his own soul enough to go after Orochimaru's soul next.

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The last time we see a glimpse of Hiruzen's intelligence was when he personally engages Obito so that nobody needs to put their lives at risk, taking advantage of the fact that he's already dead to analyse Obito's abilities. By observing Obito's Truth-Seeking Balls with his specialty, the Shuriken Kage Bunshin, he theorizes that they are similar to the Third Tsuchikage's kekkei tōta in that they are a combination of multiple nature transformations. He also postulates that the Truth-Seeking Balls have limits to the duration of their malleability, but his upper body is destroyed immediately after that. He was able to deduce the Truth-Seeking Balls, (a technique that is beyond Shinobi knowledge) in mere seconds after seeing it

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Further Hype and Testimonials

Orochimaru admitting that he would be killed by a 59 year old Hiruzen.

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Danzo in his dying moments admitting inferiority despite possessing Izanagi, Kotoamatsukami and Hashirama's DNA.

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Kabuto, a spy who has spied on and knows all about the Shinobi countries states that an old Hiruzen was stronger then all the 5 Kage at the time. Just imagine his Prime.

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Even with the entire SA and 5 Kage, Shikamaru states that only Hiruzen could contend with Guruguru at the time.

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Considers himself to be the strongest in his group which also included Tobirama. Confident enough to take on the entire Kinkaku and survive.

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Extra Databook Hype

"The sandaime, in particular, was a genius nicknamed the 'Professor,' and was called the strongest of all the Hokage".

the Sandaime was the strongest.

Databook 1, Page 117

The "Professor" revered as the strongest Hokage in history.

Databook 1, Page 119

"History's Strongest", "Genius", etc., there are many words that describe the Sandaime Hokage.

DB2 Pg 84
Konohamaru paragraph:

Konohamaru, descended from Sandaime, who was praised as history’s strongest Hokage.

"Hiruzen in his Prime was able to counter every Leaf Jutsu in Existance including all MS and EMS skills." DB2 Pg 84

Konohamaru paragraph:

Konohamaru, descended from Sandaime, who was praised as history’s strongest Hokage.

He who even holds the affectionate name of "Professor," being well-versed in every jutsu that exists in the village of Konohagakure

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you never fail me startup. 10/10 thread

SenseiSama · Dec 14, 2017

It was always facts, the only person in shinobi history to surpass his use of ninjutsu were transmigrants. They need the Sage's potential to surpass his power which is quite telling of how strong Optimus Prime Hiruzen was

lImmortal Regis · Dec 14, 2017

Believe in the hype!

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lImmortal Regis · Dec 14, 2017

Rikudou Tobi said:
4th databook said that Hiruzen does not know any secret arts only summoning jutsu.

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Jinrou · Dec 14, 2017

First time i've read over 50% of what's in the spoilers. I'll probably complete it later but i am now a believer in the hype xD. Hiruzen solos.

Guntah · Dec 14, 2017

Rikudou Tobi said:
Yes. But it mostly involves their physical or mental energy.
]
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I imagined this meant they wouldn't be able to use it as easily, not that they wouldn't be able to use it at all. After all, techniques like the Nara's are also derived from Yin, like Genjutsu, and everyone is able to use Genjutsu. Plus, if only they were able to use it, then there would be no distinction in between Hiden Jutsu and Kekkei Genkai.

Tyrance sasuke · Dec 14, 2017

I think this is the confusion here. Hiden jutsu indeed requires special chakra, but the fact is, hiruzen has all the chakra natures, except yin-yang. Nara shadow technique is a yin release technique, but it could be also the addition of special + yin release chakra. But the thing is hiruzen is not ordinary; its clearly not ordinary to master or even possess all 7 chakra natures minus yin-yang release. Lets look at the number of people who has all 7 element, let alone mastery : Orochimaru( no proof he mastered it and hes clearly not "human" according to Ibiki), Kakuzu( he hasnt mastered all the 7 natures, just the 5 elements and through black living creatures which have a sentience of its own according to databook, so it must be the black creatures who had mastered the elements; not necessarily kakuzu himself or he couldve stolen mastered shinobi hearts to get the mastered release directly), Hashirama( no proof he mastered it, Still I'd would assume he did, even then, those nature releases come from his Shinsuusenju, a living being, which is summoned from somewhere and gave him the elements, maybe as a gift), Nagato( has the rinnegan and hence all minus yin element and mastery), Naruto( Prophesied child and all TBB's), Sasuke Sarutobi( Only five chakra element mastery and is hiruzen's father; hiruzen inherited his talent from him), Madara, Rikudou sennin and maybe Kaguya.

Among these individuals, only hiruzen has completely mastered all the elements minus yin-yang, as per the databook which says secret to genjutsu to five elements. All this without a kekkei genkai or implantation or otherworldly summoned being helping him doing it. So its not a stretch to say, hiruzen has special chakra; added by the fact that he can wield a sacred weapon like enma, something which only shinobi with unique chakra and physical traits can do as seen by kisame saying only him does samehada recognize as his true master. The only reason samehada went to bee was not just because of his chakra but because of a " special trait" of bee himself.

Now lets count the people who can use sacred weapons in NV :-
Kisame(A fish, not a human according to Db)
Zabuza( A demon exists inside of him hence his moniker)
Suigetsu( The Db says he is child sent by "the gods" themselves and is a kekkei genkai wielder so has a special trait enabling him to wield it)
Sasuke( A fake kusanagi, but still he is indra avatar so obvious factor here)
Kinkaku and Ginkaku( Rikudou Sennin descendants according to Raikages suspicion)
Madara(Indra avatar)
Obito(Uchiha clan and also a theory he is Asura avatar and has wood element mastery)
Itachi( Never before seen genius, special by all sorts of ridiculous hype, considered special even among uchiha clan)
Seven swordsmen(Obviously not normal because of infamous peculiarities which they are known for)
Rikudou sage(God of shinobi, same as hiruzen)
And then there is hiruzen who has mastered genjutsu, natures and secret techniques and wields the sacred weapon along with the ability to perform all types of jutsu in konoha, could summon the death reaper seal, which by all means could be argued that its a summoning jutsu, but also can be argued, its a hidden jutsu of uzumaki origins, so is him using all types of hidden jutsu really a stretch now? I dont think so. The very fact he can wield a sacred weapon like enma seals the fact he is not normal; also there is the fact he hails from the sarutobi clan; so it wouldnt be a stretch to say he has the special chakra and genetic traits to learn and practice hidden ninjutsu. There is a reason he was considered " The God Of Shinobi" added by the fact he has a freaking crystal ball to see the activities of his village residents.

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So I think its safe to conclude that hiruzen can perform all the jutsu in konoha, let alone hidden ninjutsu; which he, also from a special clan, has enough specialty to do so, and is actually even stronger than hashirama but not Full power naruto, in his prime.

Rikudou Tobi · Dec 14, 2017

Guntah said:
I imagined this meant they wouldn't be able to use it as easily, not that they wouldn't be able to use it at all. After all, techniques like the Nara's are also derived from Yin, like Genjutsu, and everyone is able to use Genjutsu. Plus, if only they were able to use it, then there would be no distinction in between Hiden Jutsu and Kekkei Genkai.

Hiruzen doesn't have special chakra to use such technique. Like Shikamaru said, the secret arts that both of them were using is a semi substance using a ratio of both energy and chakra. The Nara clan's shadow possession is combination of both mental shadow energy and nara clan chakra, just like chouji's clan uses caloric physical energy and their chakra at the same time. Same deal with Hashirama's wood style.

People don't know that Hashirama has both secret art (hiden) and bloodline limit (kkg) at the same time. Hashirama's wood style is a kkg because it uses both water style and earth style at the same time and it's a secret art because it's a semi substance of using both physical energy and senju chakra. I've done a thread on this before.

That's why I've been telling OP that it's impossible to have all of konoha's secret arts because it would include wood style art, shadow possession art, expansion art, insect art, and mind transfer art all at the same time along with his sarutobi clan specialty as well. Maybe even the Hatake, Yūhi, and Shimura clan including such more would be factor into it as well. He would literally have beyond a kekke tota and might as well have a truth seeking orb at that point if he's able to all of that. His chakra signature would be even more mixed than Kabuto and he would have to change his body constantly to manage all of that chakra IF he ever had all the secret arts of the leaf. He'd probably be on Naruto's level or even higher if any of that is true. But seeing as how both the manga and databook said he doesn't know any secret arts, I rest my case here.

lImmortal Regis said:
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Death repear seal is not a secret art otherwise wtf is Orochimaru and Minato doing it for? Please stop.

Tyrance sasuke · Dec 14, 2017

Gudodama requires KKG, which is impossible for hiruzen. And speed is also a factor in this, he wouldnt be more powerful than naruto, if he cant match his speed. He would be near minato's reaction tho, considering he was still considered stronger than minato. You cannot be considered stronger than someone if you cant even react to his attack.

startup98 · Dec 14, 2017

Tyrance sasuke said:
I think this is the confusion here. Hiden jutsu indeed requires special chakra, but the fact is, hiruzen has all the chakra natures, except yin-yang. Nara shadow technique is a yin release technique, but it could be also the addition of special + yin release chakra. But the thing is hiruzen is not ordinary; its clearly not ordinary to master or even possess all 7 chakra natures minus yin-yang release. Lets look at the number of people who has all 7 element, let alone mastery : Orochimaru( no proof he mastered it and hes clearly not "human" according to Ibiki), Kakuzu( he hasnt mastered all the 7 natures, just the 5 elements and through black living creatures which have a sentience of its own according to databook, so it must be the black creatures who had mastered the elements; not necessarily kakuzu himself or he couldve stolen mastered shinobi hearts to get the mastered release directly), Hashirama( no proof he mastered it, Still I'd would assume he did, even then, those nature releases come from his Shinsuusenju, a living being, which is summoned from somewhere and gave him the elements, maybe as a gift), Nagato( has the rinnegan and hence all minus yin element and mastery), Naruto( Prophesied child and all TBB's), Sasuke Sarutobi( Only five chakra element mastery and is hiruzen's father; hiruzen inherited his talent from him), Madara, Rikudou sennin and maybe Kaguya.

Among these individuals, only hiruzen has completely mastered all the elements minus yin-yang, as per the databook which says secret to genjutsu to five elements. All this without a kekkei genkai or implantation or otherworldly summoned being helping him doing it. So its not a stretch to say, hiruzen has special chakra; added by the fact that he can wield a sacred weapon like enma, something which only shinobi with unique chakra and physical traits can do as seen by kisame saying only him does samehada recognize as his true master. The only reason samehada went to bee was not just because of his chakra but because of a " special trait" of bee himself.

Now lets count the people who can use sacred weapons in NV :-
Kisame(A fish, not a human according to Db)
Zabuza( A demon exists inside of him hence his moniker)
Suigetsu( The Db says he is child sent by "the gods" themselves and is a kekkei genkai wielder so has a special trait enabling him to wield it)
Sasuke( A fake kusanagi, but still he is indra avatar so obvious factor here)
Kinkaku and Ginkaku( Rikudou Sennin descendants according to Raikages suspicion)
Madara(Indra avatar)
Obito(Uchiha clan and also a theory he is Asura avatar and has wood element mastery)
Itachi( Never before seen genius, special by all sorts of ridiculous hype, considered special even among uchiha clan)
Seven swordsmen(Obviously not normal because of infamous peculiarities which they are known for)
Rikudou sage(God of shinobi, same as hiruzen)
And then there is hiruzen who has mastered genjutsu, natures and secret techniques and wields the sacred weapon along with the ability to perform all types of jutsu in konoha, could summon the death reaper seal, which by all means could be argued that its a summoning jutsu, but also can be argued, its a hidden jutsu of uzumaki origins, so is him using all types of hidden jutsu really a stretch now? I dont think so. The very fact he can wield a sacred weapon like enma seals the fact he is not normal; also there is the fact he hails from the sarutobi clan; so it wouldnt be a stretch to say he has the special chakra and genetic traits to learn and practice hidden ninjutsu. There is a reason he was considered " The God Of Shinobi" added by the fact he has a freaking crystal ball to see the activities of his village residents.

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So I think its safe to conclude that hiruzen can perform all the jutsu in konoha, let alone hidden ninjutsu; which he, also from a special clan, has enough specialty to do so, and is actually even stronger than hashirama but not Full power naruto, in his prime.

Believe in the Hype!

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davidou · Dec 14, 2017

Avery Namikaze said:
He's impressive that's for sure but I doubt he has the speed to keep up with Minato or Tobirama in a serious fight. The only one I'd say he can beat hands down is Tsunade, Kakashi has copied over 1,000 Jutsu himself so he has just as much versatility.

He solo' d edo Hashirama + edo Tobirama (not using hiraishin and shinsuusenju though)...

Why Hiruzen can defeat every Hokage except Naruto and Hashirama.

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