Why do Uchiha fans think that full Kurama is a real upgrade?

chaos control

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I've talked about this before, but why do people speak as if full Kurama is actually an upgrade or a suitable replacement for RSM (if Naruto lost it)? I see Uchiha fans say stuff like "Naruto lost RSM, but it is fine because he has full Kurama".

No it is freaking not fine because he has full Kurama!

Realistically speaking, getting the other half of Kurama was just about redundant for Naruto. It doesn't actually grant Naruto anything new. No new jutsus. No new anything. All it grants him is more chakara, which is just about redundant for Naruto since he was already a walking chakara tank even with half Kurama. Even with half Kurama, there were very few shinobi that had as much chakara as Naruto, so just getting more chakara didn't do that much for Naruto.

At best, Naruto could do a stronger bijuudama, but in most cases, even a half Kurama bijuudama would suffice. After all, it only took a half Kurama bijuudama to match that of 5 other tailed beasts combined! Heck, even a Shukaku bijuudama would suffice in most cases that actually require a bijuudama.

People who think that full Kurama is a real upgrade are failing to realize something:

This isn't Dragon Ball! This is Naruto! If this was Dragon Ball, then full Kurama would be a significant upgrade since your power in Dragon Ball is generally based on simply how much ki you have. For example, Jiren was such the threat that he was, because he had such colossal amounts of ki!

However, in Naruto, your power is more so based on what specific techniques you have rather than how much chakara you have.

For example, the Uchiha (though their reserves aren't necessarily poor) aren't particularly known for having massive chakara reserves. Why are they so strong then? It is because of the specific things they can do. It is because they can do things like:

incinerate people with a glance
Paralyze/Knock out/Control/Extract information from/ hurt people by simply looking into their eyes and casting genjutsu
warp through spacetime and turn intangible
Control tailed beasts
Summon giant tengu warriors that can fly and slash mountain ranges with the swipe of a blade!


Even with Kaguya (who has more chakara than the juubi as stated by Naruto), her power came more so from her specific techniques rather than the amount of chakara she had. She was so strong because she could:

Shift dimensions in the blink of an eye and control/alter the properties of said dimensions
One shot opponents by literally reducing them to ashes with a single ash bone
Wreck constructs like perfect susanoo with 80 gods vaccum attack
Paralyze people with a single touch
Control the environment (summoning stuff like lightning)
Cast infinite tsukuyomi
Create/Destroy dimensions with an enormous truth seeking ball
Etc...


Now don't get me wrong. Having a lot of chakara helps to enable you to do all that stuff. However, in the end, the chakara reserves alone do not actually grant you the techniques themselves. In other words, if there was a fat hobo who sat on his butt eating donuts 24/7, who for whatever reason had Kaguya level chakara reserves (but no KKG or inborn techniques), then that hobo would still be fodder regardless of how much chakara he had because he wouldn't actually know any techniques (meaning that even Iruka would solo that fodder)!


This all brings me back to my point of how full Kurama is rather redundant for Naruto. Like I said, it is just more chakara and doesn't actually add any new techniques to Naruto's arsenal! The only difference between Naruto with half Kurama and Naruto with full Kurama is:

Before, Naruto could launch rasengan until the cows came home... but now...
He can launch rasengan until two sets of cows come home!!!

Long story short: Full Kurama is not really an upgrade.


RSM gave Naruto some versatility. It gave him some sealing jutsus in the form of magnet release. It gave him a defensive technique (which he lacked) in the form of truth seeking balls (which can be used as shields). The truth seeking balls could also nullify ninjutsu and be used for other supplementary purposes such as pinning down opponents by forming the balls into rods, or allowing allows to use the balls as platforms. RSM allowed Naruto to fly! He could severely amplify his physical strength with the boil release! Etc...

Full Kurama gives him nothing!

P.S: I don't know why some of those Uchiha fans act like RSM is so OP and say that Naruto and Sasuke wouldn't be balanced if Naruto still accessed the RSM we saw in the war. Those who say this are either delusional or lying bastards. Rinnegan is way more OP than RSM (and even more so Sasuke's). Sasuke's rinnegan increased his genjutsu prowess to the point where he could subjugate all 9 bijuus with a glance! Then, the rinnegan's ability to absorb chakara already mitigates like 99% of Naruto's arsenal (since most of Naruto's arsenal is just launching rasengan variants or bijuudama variants at opponents)! Then there are abilities like being able to instakill opponents by pulling out their soul or the ability to control gravity (which can be both an offense and a defense). Then, being able to open dimensional portals could potentially enable Sasuke to throw someone into another dimension and just leave them there to starve if he plays his cards right! Amenotejikara allows Sasuke to literally do stuff like teleporting swords into people or he could make someone get hit with their own attack! The rinnegan offers a variety of powerful abilities! Meanwhile, even for all that I previously listed for RSM, in the end Naruto still has to be able to hit you with it, and the rinnegan grants Sasuke several ways to get around that! So don't give me that "RSM is OP" BS!
 

wanderingcactus

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well you are always welcome to use the "Naruto only needs half Kurama to defeat a fully bijuu charged" Sasuke logic.

You are right, the only thing that chakra is in Narutoverse is what jutsus you are capable of using and how long you can last. It does not really mean that you are all powerful. It just means you can access more powerful jutsus as long as you know them. For the most part, OP techs are mainly restricted to certain people. Having massive amounts of chakra does not make you OP.

We can see that with Nagato. The only time he ever managed to be OP was when he got the Rinnegan. His massive chakra ends up being useless due to his lack of jutsus.

This is why Naruto was not OP in the beginning. While he has Kurama and an ample sized amount of chakra, despite the demon fox restricting it, Naruto cannot do any OP jutsu so he is not OP.

large chakra = longevity or can spam jutsus more and for longer.

power is based on which techs you know and can use.
 

Styles

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You talk like only Uchiha fans say he lost RSM. And even then iirc the real "fans" know he didn't lose RSM. And the ones that do are either trolling since he used it during Boruto.
 

Greatness23

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it is. the already massive tb was halved and it still match 6 other tb. nuff said
 

chaos control

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You talk like only Uchiha fans say he lost RSM. And even then iirc the real "fans" know he didn't lose RSM. And the ones that do are either trolling since he used it during Boruto.

I mainly only see known Uchiha fans saying this. Even if others do say this, Uchiha fans are the ones that really celebrate it.

As for what he uses in Boruto, I believe that this may very well be Kurama chakara only RSM (as opposed to 9 bijuu RSM), but the design is too ambiguous and the techniques that he uses in this form are all stuff he can do in normal BSM.

Quite frankly, it annoys me that Kishi did this with adult Naruto's mode! That was a horrible decision! He should have just kept the war arc designs for Naruto's modes. Then there would be no ambiguity.
 

chaos control

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it is. the already massive tb was halved and it still match 6 other tb. nuff said

That's just one attack though, and not even a new one. Also, when is he ever really going to need a stronger bijuudama than that? A bigger bijuudama is just redundant.

This isn't Dragon Ball. It is Naruto.
 

Invicta

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That is one long-ass tirade. Admirably long, if I can throw in a compliment.

Ps. I'm really bothered by the way you consistently spell Chakra as Chakara as though the two are disparate in meaning.
 
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Uverdore9

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Kurama is a massive upgrade to Naruto like it or not. Sasuke without arm can take on the orange clone without even any outside powerup. What I hate about that fanbase is, they think thier BS fave is the best; when all he has done/accomplished is accumulating brittle powerups over brittle powerups. Yet a base Sasuke without an arm is still beating him in everything. Yet a base Sakura was utterly thrashing clone in fighting capabilities(His intense trouble with Shin). You can't go claming like Kurama doesn't make like a 1000% difference in a 1 Vs 1 fight against a base shinobi.
 

chaos control

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Kurama is a massive upgrade to Naruto like it or not. Sasuke without arm can take on the orange clone without even any outside powerup. What I hate about that fanbase is, they think thier BS fave is the best; when all he has done/accomplished is accumulating brittle powerups over brittle powerups. Yet a base Sasuke without an arm is still beating him in everything. Yet a base Sakura was utterly thrashing clone in fighting capabilities(His intense trouble with Shin). You can't go claming like Kurama doesn't make like a 1000% difference in a 1 Vs 1 fight against a base shinobi.

Full Kurama doesn't really make a difference against most shinobi because half Kurama alone fodderizes most! Also like I said, full Kurama grants no new abilities! It is just more chakara.

Base Sasuke you say? Sasuke is hardly ever in base these days. Base Sasuke is Sasuke with no dojutsu active. Even 3T sharingan disqualifies it from being base Sasuke since it grants the precognition amongst other things.

@Bold: Itachi's eyes are an outside powerup. Sasuke wasn't born with those.

You talk about what you hate about the Naruto fanbase. Well, what I hate about the Uchiha fanbase is that they haughtily chastise every non-Uchiha whose power may not have been entirely trained for, yet Uchihas are handed like 80 - 90% of their massive power on a silver platter just by being a certain race and feeling emotional pain! Uchihas don't work for that crap! It is all genetic! What does Madara even have that doesn't come from some KKG or some rikudou related thing that he got from the juubi? He has katon, shadow clone jutsu, and maybe a few supplementary things like that puppet master seal that he put on Obito's heart or that Uchiha return jutsu that he used with the war fan. That is about it! Look at Madara's jutsu list on the wiki and tell me how many non genetic/ non rikudou things you see on that list? You'll find like 5 things at best out of an extensive list of jutsu!

Same goes for Obito! Like 90% of his fighting throughout the series was based on Kamui, which is once again, due to a KKG that he did not train for! Then there was controlling bijuus/ the mazou, and using wood style, all of which are abilities that stem from genetic traits!

Those who are handed everything by genes have no right to chastise others for doing stuff like eating chakara fruit!

Naruto's intense trouble fighting Shin? Naruto never even fought Shin (unless you are talking ab kid Shin). Naruto was just standing there watching Sasuke fight Shin. There is no way that Naruto could have predicted that Shin would be able to telekinetically move Sasuke's sword from his hand into Naruto's body. How then can it be said that Naruto had intense trouble fighting Shin or was outperformed by Sakura when Naruto never even fought Shin?
 

chaos control

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Who rustles your jimmies?

Nobody. I just want to know why people would think that full Kurama vs half Kurama makes much of a difference when Naruto was already a chakara tank to begin with and when full Kurama adds no new abilities to Naruto's arsenal? Full Kurama is just more chakara at this point, and giving Naruto more chakara is like adding a bottle of water to the Ocean. That is to say... It is redundant!

RSM granted new abilities.
Full Kurama grants nothing but more chakara.

RSM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Full Kurama
 

Jiren

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Half of kurama carried naruto throughout the entire series so full kurama is an upgrade indefinelty the way I see it. Naruto didn't lose rsm either so I dont really see an actual argument about kurama not being an upgrade. Kurama is the strongest tailed beast giving Naruto near infinite chakra reserves.

Everything Naruto has done was cataylsted by kuramas power. All his jutsu get amped by the power of kurama. 99.9% physical jutsus get overpowered by just having a fraction of kuramas power imbedded inside of it. How can anyone not consider kurama a real upgrade is beyond me :lol:
 

salamander uchiha

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Nobody. I just want to know why people would think that full Kurama vs half Kurama makes much of a difference when Naruto was already a chakara tank to begin with and when full Kurama adds no new abilities to Naruto's arsenal? Full Kurama is just more chakara at this point, and giving Naruto more chakara is like adding a bottle of water to the Ocean. That is to say... It is redundant!

RSM granted new abilities.
Full Kurama grants nothing but more chakara.

RSM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Full Kurama

In that case it adds reserves as you've stated but it also allows Naruto to have more concentrated or denser chakra for use of jutsu. At the bare mimimum it would amplify his natural abilities two fold 1/2 Kurama level etc if you catch my drift.
 

chaos control

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In that case it adds reserves as you've stated but it also allows Naruto to have more concentrated or denser chakra for use of jutsu. At the bare mimimum it would amplify his natural abilities two fold 1/2 Kurama level etc if you catch my drift.

I see what you're saying, but who is this increase in chakara going to be relevant against? Half Kurama alone already fodderizes most of the shinobi world. The rikudou tier opponents usually have diverse arsenals of techniques , or at least specific techniques, that render Naruto's denser/increased chakara based attacks redundant (ie. rinnegan users like Momoshiki/Sasuke/Madara can just absorb it whether it's a half Kurama bijuudama or a full Kurama bijuudama, then some opponents have space time techniques that can allow them to really screw Naruto over such as Kamui, amenotejikara, amenominaka, etc... and Naruto's increased reserves won't do crap about that. Then in the Boruto series, we are starting to enter the realm of time freezing and what not which Naruto's reserves won't do jack about!) Do you see what I mean?

Against fodder, half Kurama is more than enough, and against rikudou tier, the increased reserves of full Kurama aren't actually effective against the powerful techniques of Naruto's powerful adversaries.
 

Rikudou Tobi

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People don’t know how to power gauge Kurama as well so they over speculate his power output. I’m sure people are trying to say is that Naruto doesn’t have Rsm but he still .

And since Naruto didn’t use senjutsu in his final clash at VoTe but he used 9 biju chakra to undo IT, it’s speculated that 9 biju chakra is enough since that was all that’s needed along with the rinnegan to cancel kaguya’s jutsu.
 

chaos control

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More chakra, more power.

If this was Dragon Ball then you would be correct. However, let's say that we have a fat hobo who sits and eats donuts 24/7 and knows no jutsus, but for whatever reason he has Kaguya level chakara reserves.

Tell me: Is he strong or is he fodder?
 

InfiniteMugen

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It’s access to almost double the existing chakra he had, considering how much of a chakra tank he was before, he’d theoretically never run out chakra now. It’s a hell of a lot of chakra to have, that’s no understatement. That being said, it is JUST that, more of what he already had
 
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