That's rinne/ms Obito which isn't the obito itachi last saw so that Obito isnt in this, Ms Obito is in this and that's a big difference...both feared each other for a reason
There is no difference, obito did not use the rinnegan again after resealing the bijuu he fought exactly as his MS form did against kakashi, gai, bee and naruto
Yeah and it isn't a point because those are completely different opponents and non of those besides nagato and DSM kabuto stand a chance against obito.
- That was a 30% Itachi that got fooled by Kakashi. We already seen what a 100% Itachi did to Kakashi
Irrelevant, 30% itachi isn't stupider than 100% itachi. Getting fooled has more to do with brains than brawn the 100% itachi you spoke of never fooled kakashi in fact it was kakashi that kept surprising him. He won because he was more powerful. Shikamaru is smarter than sasuke but he would still get rekt.
- Susanoo and Yata Mirror negs hers paper bombs and her paper bomb emissary was a jutsu designed for only Obito in the first place. Still Yata negs
Lmao, her paper bombs explode for 10 mins please show me a video of alive itachi holding susanoo for that long. Yata is featless at least kamui proved its hype but lets assume it is that powerful, itachi doesn't have what it takes to hold out susanoo that long.
- Yeah of course, my point was that Obito's Kamui isnt all powerful like u made it seem. I was showing you how plenty of people can get around it and have even scared Obito even though he has Kamui
Plenty of people? :lol only 3 people have ever countered kamui, JJ madara(TSB projectile), minato(has FTG) and kakashi(who has the same eye power) last time I checked 3 wasn't plenty. Obito was a cautious individual he was never scared shitless by anyone when madara appeared he wasn't grovelling.
- You clearly missed the point of my post. I was again, giving you instances of why Itachi will have a great chance at beating Obito. Then i gave reasons to support my opinion by listing different times Itachi has defeated or got around most if not all of his opponents when they tried to defeat him or trap him
All those instances were when Itachi was vastly superior to the enemy the times he wasn't he had backup from those more often than not more powerful than him(sasuke,naruto and killer bee). Also none of those you mentioned that itachi beat by himself could beat obito so it hardly adds anything. The vast majority were one shotted by genjutsu, something that isn't happening here.
- Im sure reconfigurating KA would've not been that hard of a task if Itachi knew he was going to face Obito one day. Reforming Sasuke was much more important apparently.
Yes it wouldn't be a too hard but it isn't something he can do mid battle. Obito also knew he wasn't going to fight itachi if you give itachi prep the same must be done for obito.
Unfortunately Tobi >> Itachi, between the wood style, Kamui and superior fire techniques Itachi gets wrecked, and Itachi knows it.
Tobi also has at least one Izanagi and an unlimited supply of sharingan thanks to Itachi
There is no difference, obito did not use the rinnegan again after resealing the bijuu he fought exactly as his MS form did against kakashi, gai, bee and naruto
Obito won't need the rinnegan against itachi.
Yeah and it isn't a point because those are completely different opponents and non of those besides nagato and DSM kabuto stand a chance against obito.
Irrelevant, 30% itachi isn't stupider than 100% itachi. Getting fooled has more to do with brains than brawn the 100% itachi you spoke of never fooled kakashi in fact it was kakashi that kept surprising him. He won because he was more powerful. Shikamaru is smarter than sasuke but he would still get rekt.
Lmao, her paper bombs explode for 10 mins please show me a video of alive itachi holding susanoo for that long. Yata is featless at least kamui proved its hype but lets assume it is that powerful, itachi doesn't have what it takes to hold out susanoo that long.
Plenty of people? :lol only 3 people have ever countered kamui, JJ madara(TSB projectile), minato(has FTG) and kakashi(who has the same eye power) last time I checked 3 wasn't plenty. Obito was a cautious individual he was never scared shitless by anyone when madara appeared he wasn't grovelling.
All those instances were when Itachi was vastly superior to the enemy the times he wasn't he had backup from those more often than not more powerful than him(sasuke,naruto and killer bee). Also none of those you mentioned that itachi beat by himself could beat obito so it hardly adds anything. The vast majority were one shotted by genjutsu, something that isn't happening here.
Yes it wouldn't be a too hard but it isn't something he can do mid battle. Obito also knew he wasn't going to fight itachi if you give itachi prep the same must be done for obito.
Im giving you feats of Itachi in his personal battles and why defeating Obito wouldn't be that far-fetched. Thats all. You make it seem like Obito would absolutely destroy Itachi yet the evidence up until now regarding Itachi in battle, has proven that Itachi has found a way to defeat, resist or get around any opponents Jutsu or ability
I'm surprised people would think Obito would absolutely annihilate Itachi when Itachi has yet to be annihilated by anyone of any caliber.
The only people who can neg Itachi is JJ's or Ootsosuki family/benefactors. Obito loses point blank
Im giving you feats of Itachi in his personal battles and why defeating Obito wouldn't be that far-fetched. Thats all. You make it seem like Obito would absolutely destroy Itachi yet the evidence up until now regarding Itachi in battle, has proven that Itachi has found a way to defeat, resist or get around any opponents Jutsu or ability
I'm surprised people would think Obito would absolutely annihilate Itachi when Itachi has yet to be annihilated by anyone of any caliber.
The only people who can neg Itachi is JJ's or Ootsosuki family/benefactors. Obito loses point blank
You just said obito loses point blank as in obito would get murdered.
Evidence? You haven't shown anything substantial, like I said all of itachi's victories are as a result of a vast difference in power and his genjutsu prowess(which I'll say again is useless against obito). His other victories came from the help of those stronger than him.
You want evidence, ok. Obito survived and got around those who assisted itachi against nagato plus kakashi(who has a natural counter against obito), gai and a superior naruto to what itachi encountered. How does that not show obito's adaptability?
Itachi loses more often than not the reasons I have given throughout this thread are clear.
You just said obito loses point blank as in obito would get murdered.
Evidence? You haven't shown anything substantial, like I said all of itachi's victories are as a result of a vast difference in power and his genjutsu prowess(which I'll say again is useless against obito). His other victories came from the help of those stronger than him.
You want evidence, ok. Obito survived and got around those who assisted itachi against nagato plus kakashi(who has a natural counter against obito), gai and a superior naruto to what itachi encountered. How does that not show obito's adaptability?
Itachi loses more often than not the reasons I have given throughout this thread are clear.
Itachi is an uchiha with MS while Tobi is an Uchiha with MS and Hashi/Senju dna. Not only is his Uchiha capability is on par with Itachi, his Senju capability gives him the edge on physical energy, healing, and mokuton.
That and much more
Itachi feared obito as well, he even admitted to needing EMS to beat him.
Normal itachi would be slaughtered by Obito, his low chakra levels and illness would end the fight quickly in obito's favor. Perhaps a healthy itachi would have a higher chance.
I've seen a lot of dumb stuff come out of the versus section so I'm not gonna dwell on the opinions of people from there.
Last time I posted there somebody argued with me that 5th gates Gai has better reaction speed than Minato.
Kishi already portrayed Tobi as the superior character to th point that Itachi had to settle an agreement with him to save the village and this is outside akatsuki.
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Itachi knew who was the stronger man and the stronger man runs Akatsuki.
I've seen a lot of dumb stuff come out of the versus section so I'm not gonna dwell on the opinions of people from there.
Last time I posted there somebody argued with me that 5th gates Gai has better reaction speed than Minato.
Kishi already portrayed Tobi as the superior character to th point that Itachi had to settle an agreement with him to save the village and this is outside akatsuki.
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Itachi knew who was the stronger man and the stronger man runs Akatsuki.
-Itachi assumed Obito was Madara
-This is a buffed, immortal Itachi, not alive
-Any portrayal is under the assumption Itachi had no intel on Obito. DB states Obito didn't use his abilities around akatsuki and there's this:
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I do agree without intel Itachi loses but with intel, this is a debatable match up and I can PM you my reasons.
-Itachi assumed Obito was Madara
-This is a buffed, immortal Itachi, not alive
-Any portrayal is under the assumption Itachi had no intel on Obito. DB states Obito didn't use his abilities around akatsuki and there's this:
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I do agree without intel Itachi loses but with intel, this is a debatable match up and I can PM you my reasons.
Even if he thought he was Madara, Madara is just a legend and doesn't really do much in a one on one battle. You can claim to be whatever dangerous man but that doesn't help your feat in battle, Itachi himself doesn't know what the real madara's capabilities are so what does he have to fear? Edo Itachi still holds some limitations as edo tensei was not brought back in full power just everlasting chakra. So edo Itachi loses that potency in his chakra in comparison to as he is alive. You brought the point that Tobi doesn't use his powers around akatsuki but he uses Kamui in front of akatsuki all the time, so what jutsu/power doesn't he use that Itachi can beat?
We've seen how legendary his kamui can go when it comes to passing through all attacks.
I see itachi winning more times than obito, izanami auto counters izanagi, and obito needed izanagi to avoid ama, it was'nt kamui, what's my reason to back up my claim? If it was kamui, obitos shirt would still have been burnt, and the fact that it was'nt burnt proves its izanagi, and itachis intellect, crow clones, crow summon, shuriken jutsu would give him the win, we already saw how good he is in analysing techniques
Even if he thought he was Madara, Madara is just a legend and doesn't really do much in a one on one battle. You can claim to be whatever dangerous man but that doesn't help your feat in battle, Itachi himself doesn't know what the real madara's capabilities are so what does he have to fear?
He may not have known his exact capabilities but Madara was a legend due to him being the most powerful Uchiha that ever lived. The manga made it clear Madara was a far greater threat than MS Obito.
-Obito used Madara's name to intimidate the alliance into war.
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-Obito told Tsuchikage, compared to his prime, he had grown "weak" and had no "strength" only to threaten them with the power of 7 bijuu in the same sentence.
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Why would Obito have sold himself short here? I'm pretty sure it was to make up for the fact he wasnt on Madara's level, despite claiming to be him. Can you think of a better reason?
-There's also this:
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And this is without knowing Kabuto had "upgraded" Madara, as even Madara himself was surprised and had to check his chest:
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So Obito was essentially panicking over an EMS Madara. I mean, Minato thought Obito was Madara as well, yet he solod him. Madz would've negged him.
Edo Itachi still holds some limitations as edo tensei was not brought back in full power just everlasting chakra. So edo Itachi loses that potency in his chakra in comparison to as he is alive.
I think Itachi is an exception. While alive he had poor stamina due to his illness and he could not use MS without taking a toll on his body. As an Edo, we've seen him spam Susanoo, Amaterasu, and clones without consequences. I'd definitely say Edo Itachi is a tier above his alive counterpart.
You brought the point that Tobi doesn't use his powers around akatsuki but he uses Kamui in front of akatsuki all the time, so what jutsu/power doesn't he use that Itachi can beat?
We've seen how legendary his kamui can go when it comes to passing through all attacks.
He may not have known his exact capabilities but Madara was a legend due to him being the most powerful Uchiha that ever lived. The manga made it clear Madara was a far greater threat than MS Obito.
-Obito used Madara's name to intimidate the alliance into war.
The manga made it clear that they feared a legend, it stated nothing about who was stronger than who because that can be argued. He used Madara's name to declare war but that still didn't stop the alliance from fighting this guy, in fact they all brought out their best to fight this fake madara regardless. Just because he claimed to be "madara," doesn't mean people automatically submit to him, just look here.
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Right off the bat yahiko called him an idiot or criminal and he still threaten Tobi to not visit them again.
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It's not just the hype that got most people worried. When he went to battle against Minato he compared Tobi (or MS Obito as you like to call it) to Madara.
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The only reason why he took that back was because Madara was too old and should be long dead. But besides that, the manga portrayed Tobi to be some kind of Madara copy.
-Obito told Tsuchikage, compared to his prime, he had grown "weak" and had no "strength" only to threaten them with the power of 7 bijuu in the same sentence.
Well obviously that was a lie because never fought Hashirama and he never gained any scars from any battle with Hashirama. He said he'll need the power of 7 bijuus to challenge the whole shinobi world. EMS Madara cannot challenge the whole shinobi world or defeat 7 bijuus, you need some special kind of kekkai genkai to subdue 7 bijuus all at the same time. So he was covering himself with more lies in order to bring out the hachibi and kyuubi.
Why would Obito have sold himself short here? I'm pretty sure it was to make up for the fact he wasnt on Madara's level, despite claiming to be him. Can you think of a better reason?
-There's also this:
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And this is without knowing Kabuto had "upgraded" Madara, as even Madara himself was surprised and had to check his chest:
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Actually no. impure resurrection brings back at the state you are before you die. So he was not scared of EMS Madara, especially after he refused kabuto's cooperation with this line up of powerful men edo itachi being one of them.
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When Madara died he was already implanted with hashirama's tissue and he created a flower tree already to remove the white zetsus
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So what Tobi saw was a younger Madara with already transplanted hashirama cells that he used to cultivate the satue along with a sharingan. That's too much for Tobi to fight let alone the other edo tensei line up that followed behind. Madara with his uchiha power plus Hashirama's tissues is already bad news for Tobi. The only thing kabuto did was perfect it and gave him fake edo rinnegans because Madara died without his eyes.
So Obito was essentially panicking over an EMS Madara. I mean, Minato thought Obito was Madara as well, yet he solod him. Madz would've negged him.
Nope it was not edo EMS Madara. It was Madara with senju dna attached to his body so there is a difference in level
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The bottom middle panel is what he saw. Minato did not solo Tobi, otherwise he would have a hard time dealing with kyuubi without Hiruzen and all the other villagers. On top of that he was restricted to great amounts that he was only fighting with his bare hand and kamui. He didn't repel a single object, use katon, or even a little mokuton to use to help fight in battle. And in the end it was Tobi's deed that got Minato killed anyways.
I think Itachi is an exception. While alive he had poor stamina due to his illness and he could not use MS without taking a toll on his body. As an Edo, we've seen him spam Susanoo, Amaterasu, and clones without consequences. I'd definitely say Edo Itachi is a tier above his alive counterpart.
Itachi is slightly above his sick counterpart but his ability to spam these abilities are pointless when he can slip right past them. We saw amatersu fail and what is Susanoo going to do? It's been proven to pass through it as well.
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That's what the databook says
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Konan and Pain are an exception because they take orders from him but there's no proof he used it around Itachi.
Konan and Pain are not the only exceptions because yes indeed itachi has seen it too and here's the proof.
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He's been observing him the whole time and knows what his sharingan is capable of. The databook could be talking about other akatsuki members besides Pein, konan, and itachi but those who know that Tobi existed before part one already know his ability.
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^ Obito was obviously talking about keeping Kamui a secret because that's what he used to save himself from Amaterasu.
Anyway, this will probably be my last reply here because we're getting a bit off topic, I'll reply to your PM later.
The manga made it clear that they feared a legend, it stated nothing about who was stronger than who because that can be argued. He used Madara's name to declare war but that still didn't stop the alliance from fighting this guy, in fact they all brought out their best to fight this fake madara regardless. Just because he claimed to be "madara," doesn't mean people automatically submit to him, just look here.
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Right off the bat yahiko called him an idiot or criminal and he still threaten Tobi to not visit them again.
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It's not just the hype that got most people worried. When he went to battle against Minato he compared Tobi (or MS Obito as you like to call it) to Madara.
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The only reason why he took that back was because Madara was too old and should be long dead. But besides that, the manga portrayed Tobi to be some kind of Madara copy.
They all assumed Tobi was Madara because, to their knowledge, he was the only rogue Uchiha that had a grudge against the village, could control the Kyubi, and could get past the Konoha barrier undetected. Minato also mentioned Obito's advanced S/T as a reason, not knowing it was an MS technique. Itachi said any Uchiha with MS could control the Kyuubi, according to the Uchiha tablet.
Madara was the most logical possibility with their limited knowledge. Nothing more, nothing less.
Well obviously that was a lie because never fought Hashirama and he never gained any scars from any battle with Hashirama.
I'm aware it was a lie :lol but why did he have to lie?
-Onoki asks Obito why negotiate when Madara shouldn't have to with all his power
-Obito says it's because he's grown weak, a "shell of his former self"
He lied to make up for the fact that EMS Madara >>> MS Obito. It was an excuse and a good one.
He said he'll need the power of 7 bijuus to challenge the whole shinobi world. EMS Madara cannot challenge the whole shinobi world or defeat 7 bijuus, you need some special kind of kekkai genkai to subdue 7 bijuus all at the same time. So he was covering himself with more lies in order to bring out the hachibi and kyuubi.
I'm not saying EMS Madara > MS Obito w/ 7 Bijuu. I'm saying EMS Madara >> MS Obito w/ no summons as adult MS Obito has no summons.
Actually no. impure resurrection brings back at the state you are before you die. So he was not scared of EMS Madara, especially after he refused kabuto's cooperation with this line up of powerful men edo itachi being one of them.
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When Madara died he was already implanted with hashirama's tissue and he created a flower tree already to remove the white zetsus
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So what Tobi saw was a younger Madara with already transplanted hashirama cells that he used to cultivate the satue along with a sharingan. That's too much for Tobi to fight let alone the other edo tensei line up that followed behind. Madara with his uchiha power plus Hashirama's tissues is already bad news for Tobi. The only thing kabuto did was perfect it and gave him fake edo rinnegans because Madara died without his eyes.
Nope it was not edo EMS Madara. It was Madara with senju dna attached to his body so there is a difference in level
Minato did not solo Tobi, otherwise he would have a hard time dealing with kyuubi without Hiruzen and all the other villagers. On top of that he was restricted to great amounts that he was only fighting with his bare hand and kamui. He didn't repel a single object, use katon, or even a little mokuton to use to help fight in battle. And in the end it was Tobi's deed that got Minato killed anyways.
-He did solo Obito 1 on 1; Kurama was out of the picture at the time, but I already know Kurama is too much for Minato anyway.
Adult MS Obito doesn't have a summon, so it's not relevant to our discussion anyway. The fact is Obito lost 1 on 1. Minato was able to warp in front of TSB and warp them away, so I don't see any of the things you listed making a difference. The only thing that might have made a difference was genjutsu.
Konan and Pain are not the only exceptions because yes indeed itachi has seen it too and here's the proof.
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He's been observing him the whole time and knows what his sharingan is capable of. The databook could be talking about other akatsuki members besides Pein, konan, and itachi but those who know that Tobi existed before part one already know his ability.
He said itachi didn't know everything about him so it goes deeper than Kamui because as i provided above, he already seen it before meeting with Tobi
That scan doesn't prove Itachi knew about Kamui, at least the inner workings of it. I mean come on
-Itachi makes it so that Amaterasu lights Obito up
-Obito uses his intangibility to counter it, then says "Thank God he didn't know everything about me or I'd be dead right now"
Obito's clearly talking about his intangibility...unless you're saying Obito didn't use Kamui there, but the databook says it was kamui, so it wouldn't make sense otherwise.
Anyway, I'm done for real here too because this has turned into Madara vs Obito instead of Edo Itachi lmao.
Unfortunately Tobi >> Itachi, between the wood style, Kamui and superior fire techniques Itachi gets wrecked, and Itachi knows it.
Tobi also has at least one Izanagi and an unlimited supply of sharingan thanks to Itachi
pfft please. without spamming intangible, obito is just barely above kakashi's level. also, whose to say that izanami wouldn't work on obito, a jutsu that was made to stomp izanagi. lmao
