Why are people so jelaous

[Milojko]

That is where you're wrong. If Guy was truly stronger than his opponent then he wouldn't be pushed to the point of suicide in the first place. Using a suicide technique at all is basically an admission of defeat. Therefore anybody using a suicide technique can at most draw (if they successfully finish their opponent) or else they lose. They can not win.

If person A forces person B to commit suicide in order to even stand a chance, then person A essentially killed person B, so person A >>>>> person B. The order of death is irrelevant.

By your logic if Gai use 8 gates aganist Iruka , then Iruka is stronger then him .

 

[chaos control]

Being stronger than your opponent means you can overwhelm them with power. Whether or not you die as a result doesn't change that. To win, you must kill your opponent. If your opponent kills themselves and you, then you didn't kill them, so you didn't win. They killed you, so they win.

I am expressing my own standards for victory, you are expressing yours. But idc what yours are, I go by mine.

You clearly overwhelmed your opponent with power if you made them kill themselves. By your logic, a 10 year old with no martial arts training could be stronger than Bruce Lee because a 10 year old could run up to Lee with a bomb strapped to his chest and kill both himself and Lee.

 

[chaos control]

By your logic if Gai use 8 gates aganist Iruka , then Iruka is stronger then him .

Yes that is exactly what I am saying. If Guy was stronger than Iruka then the 8th gate wouldn't be necessary in the first place.

 

[Milojko]

You clearly overwhelmed your opponent with power if you made them kill themselves. By your logic, a 10 year old with no martial arts training could be stronger than Bruce Lee because a 10 year old could run up to Lee with a bomb strapped to his chest and kill both himself and Lee.

just wow , what a logic , how you put bomb's in this shit ? That is not good example at all .

 

[chaos control]

just wow , what a logic , how you put bomb's in this shit ? That is not good example at all .

You clearly don't understand. Strapping a bomb to yourself and bombing someone that way is a suicide technique that people such as terrorists sometimes use in war. Similarly, the 8th gate is also a suicide technique. Suicide bombing yourself to kill an opponent is similar to using the 8th gate to kill an opponent because in both cases you're committing suicide to kill an opponent.

How do you not get this?

 

[Ansatsuken]

If both of your deaths are guaranteed before execution, then it's a draw.

That's how combat works.

Yeah like fighting game

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[Monxstaa]

Lol madara fans are getting salty all over again , de ja vu hits harder when animated :Sparks:. Anyway eight gates hype was too much, kishi was not about to let it look like it was something someone could tank. Gai is officially the best taijiysu user, manga facts as stated by madara himself, madara fans can't deny their fave's words :bdpf:.


On a serious note, people don't like the fact that madara could easily make the seventh gate look like a joke while he gets beaten by the gate of death, it may be due to Madara's fame and prestige as being a juubi Jin with SM hashirama's power, rinnegan, and Madara's own incredibly sensing abilities should be more than enough to keep up with the eighth gate. Which they forget that madara was able to track gai's movements via the rinnegan and sensing, however, Seikizou (evening elephant) hits from multiple directions extremely quickly that madara couldn't defend from as they were blind spots. Also the night gai bends the air pressure which affected Madara's staff so madara could defend from that. Also the force of gai's strikes stunned madara due to momentum. But this is just a serious explanation.

yo i just wanna say i hate all sasuke fan but you are an exception i swear nearly every thread you reply on is PURE LOGIC xD and you destroy them xD

 

[Kushina san]

Normally I do not consider the techniques of suicide, like the C0 and shiki Fuujin....

Mmh so, i don't care xd

 

[Narutobirama]

Nope. In this case gai kills his opponent before dying and therefore completes the objective while he is still alive, everything that happens right after is irrelevant. The point of VS matches or combats in general is to kill/eliminate/beat the other person, there is no rule of "staying alive".

Not in narutobase, we don't do that gay shit. Besides it is ultimately your decision, it's up to what rules the debaters agree on in the very beginning , which in this case I personally don't

VS matches are made in order to know which one of two characters is stronger, not which one can stay alive.

I consider a draw if two people kill each other. If one person kills the other then dies because of their own power, then the other person didn't kill them.

When I said, according to most rules, I meant in general on internet, not Narutobase. In general, rules are, unless stated otherwise, if both die, even if one dies later, it is considered a draw.

So, if Sasori poisoned Asuma but Asuma managed to kill Sasori, before he dies of poison, he would not be a winner. It would be a draw.

If Deidara used his suicide technique against Asuma, it would not be a win for Asuma, just because Deidara died in explosion before the explosion reached Asuma. It would be a draw.

If Minato uses reaper death seal to kill Obito, Minato is not a winner, even if he somehow manages to postpone his death for a few seconds after Obito dies.

If two fighters kill each other but the second one dies a few minutes later, it is a draw.

If a fighter kills another fighter but he dies because of his wounds a few days later, it is still a draw.

Not being able to kill someone without dying, whether person dies because of wounds or his own decision, is a draw.

Of course, unless stated otherwise. I have quite a lot of experience with debating, so I am quite familiar with the most commonly set rules which apply when it is not stated otherwise.

 

[Milojko]

You clearly don't understand. Strapping a bomb to yourself and bombing someone that way is a suicide technique that people such as terrorists sometimes use in war. Similarly, the 8th gate is also a suicide technique. Suicide bombing yourself to kill an opponent is similar to using the 8th gate to kill an opponent because in both cases you're committing suicide to kill an opponent.

How do you not get this?

Pal , sorry for waiting this long but I couldn't answer quicker , everybody could use bomb and kill somebody , but bomb is not part of your power , on other side few people can awaken 8 gates through hard work and a lot time is needed for that , many years. You can't compare those two things.

 

[salamander uchiha]

I liked Guy and his 8 Gates Technique. He would solo my fave if my fave didn't go into his RSM Mode easily.

Still can't tank guys thai jutsu or speed.

 

[chaos control]

Pal , sorry for waiting this long but I couldn't answer quicker , everybody could use bomb and kill somebody , but bomb is not part of your power , on other side few people can awaken 8 gates through hard work and a lot time is needed for that , many years. You can't compare those two things.

I see your point and I thought about that (although it could be argued that you still need the skill or knowledge about how to set off the bomb which not everybody has). Nevertheless, I don't want to spend too much time on that analogy.

My ultimate point is basically this: A stronger person can actually truly win a battle and live to fight another day. It is like your Guy vs Iruka example. We all know that Guy >>>>>>> Iruka. If they were to fight Guy wouldn't have to even go 8 gates.

Here is a better example than the bomb analogy.

Do you remember when Vegeta exploded himself against Buu in DBZ? Had Buu died (which he did not), would that make Vegeta stronger in your eyes? To me, the answer is no. Here is why:

Consider a few questions:

1. Why did Vegeta resort to self destructing in the first place?

Answer: It was because he could not beat Buu. Why didn't Vegeta just finish Buu with his strongest final flash or big bang attack or galick gun? It is because as I said before, none of that would work. He simply could not beat Buu!

Do you see what I am getting at here? Suicide techniques are things you go for when you truly and utterly just can't beat a person. In other words, that other person is stronger.

It is true that suicide techniques may give a person the power to kill their opponent (at the cost of their own life). However, in terms of pure combat analysis and pure versus matches, what is the point of considering it a win if you yourself don't live?

You see, when I think of versus matches, I think of competitions of pure self defense (where you are trying to kill your opponent for the sole purpose of staying alive yourself). Basically, the combatants are fighting each other solely because their opponent is trying to kill them (not to save the world, not for pride or glory or any other reason). Of course, if you don't stay alive yourself, then that defeats the whole purpose! If you commit suicide in a battle, then you ultimately failed in your goal of staying alive and surviving the threat that is your opponent.

With your argument of "If your opponent dies before you do then you win", you are more so looking at matches as if they are sporting events with technicalities. In other words, you are basically looking at it as if it were a boxing match where it holds true that if Mike Tyson punches an opponent so hard that it knocks Tyson out in addition to the opponent, then as long as the opponent hits the ground first then Tyson still wins despite being knocked out himself. That is how your argument looks at it.

My perspective doesn't include such "who died first" technicalities. My perspective is completely a mater of life and death. You are just fighting only to live, so if you use a suicide technique then you have failed and therefore lost the battle (or got a draw if you successfully finished your opponent).

Just in case you say something about this, let me clarify something:

There is a difference between simply dying after the battle and being defeated by your opponent. You are defeated if you die because of anything that your opponent did to you during the battle. Even if it is a suicide technique, you still only used that suicide technique because your opponent was beating you up or dominating you before that. Therefore you still died due to things that your opponent did to you. In other words, your opponent still killed you even if it was your own power.

Conversely, simply dying at a later point than the battle is when you die due to a cause that has absolutely nothing to do with the events of the battle or anything that your opponent did to you. For example, if Joe and Bob (I often use random names in examples) are fighting and Joe kills Bob, and then a minute after Bob dies, a drive by shooting randomly takes place and Joe gets killed, then that would be an example of Joe simply dying after the battle. Joe still won his battle against Bob. He just died due to some other random circumstance.

Anyway, that is why I say that you can't win with suicide techniques (at least not in true battles of life/death or self defense).

I will give you this however:

You can win a sporting event on a technicality with a suicide technique. That I do acknowledge.