Who're you voting for?
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~WastelandSociety~
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If I wanted to vote it'll be Trump.
Though since he acts like an 14 year old idiot that doesn't know how to talk , I won't be voting.
Hillary is too corrupted for my taste.
But seeing how idiotic people can be, especially now Obama is supporting her,she'll be President next so there's no debate on who's going to win.
Though since he acts like an 14 year old idiot that doesn't know how to talk , I won't be voting.
Hillary is too corrupted for my taste.
But seeing how idiotic people can be, especially now Obama is supporting her,she'll be President next so there's no debate on who's going to win.
Lightbringer
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I'm aware of the Nixon war on drugs operation, but no, the prison rates had a stark rise once Bill stepped in. Even if you're not blaming the Clintons, then what did they do to amend the situation? Nothing, they just made it worse.
So she gave support to Bush to wage war on Iraq? No ifs, ands, or buts. That was a stupid move. No excuse is going to change that. Even Hillary Clinton herself stated that it was a mistake. What exactly are you arguing here?
And like I said, she has had other foreign blunders as well. Iraq was just one among many. Not only that but she was mentored by Henry Kissinger who is a downright war criminal and the worst Secretary of State in U.S. history.
Are you being serious right now? What do you think Goldman Sachs do? They indulge in investment banking and have been on federal trials for scamming people. And Hillary took money from those firms. Coincidence? Without the Glass-Steagall Act, the banks were allowed to grow to enormous proportions and are now under the "too big to fail" category. The Glass-Steagall Act was originally instituted in order to combat another depression. And to this day, Hillary Clinton refuses to support its re-implementation. You're trying to make an excuse for something that is inexcusable.
That was only an excuse Hillary gave in order pass the Bankruptcy Bill with a clear conscience. No women groups agreed with her view at that time and Elizabeth Warren criticized her heavily for it, stating that the improvised bill was not much different. And the only reason Hillary opposed it later in 2005 was to save face and was at the point where the vote was almost unanimously against the bill. So her voting for it would only damage her more.
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No, no, no, no. The email controversy is an entirely separate case from having a private server in your room. When it was just the emails, yes that was just a case made by the Republicans against Hillary in order to find some sort of dirt against her. But a private server is something on a whole different scale of scandalous. Not only that but her emails were wiped out. Over 30,000 of them. Her excuse was because it was "personal." She was not allowed to do this. There was obviously something she was hiding that would get in her serious trouble.
Bernie Sanders is going to make the case against Hillary Clinton to the super-delegates at the Democratic Convention, that she is at risk of being indicted because of her emails. Bernie Sanders also stated that the email scandal was a serious issue months before but wasn't going to politicize the issue. He explained that.
Did Bernie drop out and endorse Hillary? No. The only reason Bernie is supporting Hillary is to stop Trump. He even stated that he would do anything to stop him. I can understand that, but that doesn't mean I'm going to support Hillary.
Hillary Clinton was promoting the TPP moths before she flipped to "oppose" it. She even called the TPP a "gold standard." I don't believe for a second she is genuinely opposing it, but again, is doing it for the votes because she knows how much the people are against it. Not only that, but even though Hillary "opposes" it, she herself still says that the TPP just needs to be improved upon and refined, whereas Bernie Sanders wants to just do away with it completely.
She was criticizing Bernie Sanders for opposing the TPP and when she flipped she stated that unlike Bernie Sanders, she opposed the TPP after she read it. So that means she supported the TPP without even knowing what it was about. But that's not true either given her statements about it.
Her own words:
"This TPP sets the gold standard in trade agreements to open free, transparent, fair trade, the kind of environment that has the rule of law and a level playing field," Clinton said. "And when negotiated, this agreement will cover 40 percent of the world's total trade and build in strong protections for workers and the environment."
"It will cover 40 percent of the world's total trade and establish strong protections for workers and the environment. Better jobs with higher wages and safer working conditions, including for women, migrant workers and others too often in the past excluded from the formal economy will help build Asia's middle class and re-balance the global economy."
So she's either lying or incompetent or both. Either way, it's even more reason as to why I don't want her to be president.
Trump and Hillary are both on the same plateau of unscrupulous. And in my eyes, given her past, she's not gonna do much better than Trump.
Now it seems to me that all you're doing is given the same excuses she gives in order to justify her nefarious actions. Yes, all humans make mistakes, but she makes mistakes on a daily basis on a nationwide scale. She does not have good judgement and I believe that is the most important quality for a president.
As for Stein. Well, I'd rather try voting for someone I believe in rather than voting for someone who is deliberately going to make the country worse.
Times have changed since 2012 and people are more politically active. Bernie Sanders had enormous support from the people and got to this stage when he was just a nobody with virtually no media coverage. If it weren't for voter suppression and election fraud instituted by the DNC and the Clinton Campaign, then he would have won the nomination. There are federal lawsuits being filed against the Clintons for election fraud.
So if Bernie managed to get this far, I can believe Jill Stein might be able to do the same, especially since she is in line with Bernie's talking points and is already starting to get support from Bernie's supporters. When people see two shit candidates and one electable one, I think the choice might be a bit more clear.
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Tarkatower
Active member
I decided I will not be voting in this election. Currently I prefer Clinton since her policies and her stances coincide more with what I like... even though I probably like Trump more.
Lightbringer
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Uzumaki Macho
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Would you vote for Hillary Clinton if it's obvious on Election Day that Jill Stein can't win? Also, which state do you live in?
Lightbringer
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I'm on the fringe. I have not made my decision yet. I was originally going to support Clinton to make sure Trump doesn't step in, but currently I honestly don't believe she's going to do much better than he is. If Jill Stein can't make it, then I probably will just not vote altogether.
Voting for the "lesser" evil will inevitably give rise to the greater evil given power and time. You have to take into account that much of what Donald Trump is saying is feasibly impossible to do. He will never build a wall, bring back torture worse than "waterboarding," mass deport illegal immigrants, etc. No matter how he tries. He's just stupid and incompetent.
But Hillary on the other hand is smart and she knows how to play the system for her own benefit. She has done this already, but imagine how much more she could do with the power as president? She is a corporate lackey and even her son in law, married to Chelsea Clinton, worked for Goldman Sachs for 8 years.
There is not much compromise between the two candidates. Like I said in a previous comment. Trump represents instability and chaos, whereas Clinton represents an oligarchy. That's like choosing between communism and fascism as analogies go. One is not really better than the other. Both are awful choices and both will most likely lead to economic ruin.
I live in PA.
[video=youtube;OB0XtrBHyo4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB0XtrBHyo4[/video]
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SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO
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Jill Stein has never held any significant elected office, only thing in her resume is being a member of a town meeting in Massachusetts, she lost the bid for governor of Massachusetts not once but twice and she lost in the presidential election back in '12, voting for her is a waste.
Lightbringer
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You don't have to be a politician to know how politics work. George Washington was never a politician. He was a general and yet he turned out to be one of the greatest presidents in history. Then you have FDR who was never in congress. There are more examples of this. Just because they're not politicians does not mean they can't make a great president.
Well I'm sorry you see it that way.
Like I said, voting for the "lesser evil" inevitably gives rise to the greater one given power and time. Hillary represents the oligarchy whereas Trump represents chaos and instability. Both are not good options in any way.
You're asking me to pick my poison between the two. I'd rather hope for the cure.
And if either of them gets elected, then at least I can have a clear conscience knowing that I did not succumb to voting for either of the two out of some warped notion of necessity.
Hillary is currently having federal lawsuits filed against her for election fraud.
Why would I vote for a person who spat on democracy? She was not chosen by the people, the establishment chose her. That's not how democracy works. We are at the point where the people have little power to vote in the right figures and by giving up will only make it worse.
I don't understand how you can't see that?
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SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO
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Ideas are gray, but real life is green, the political reality is that everyone in the Democratic party, including Sanders, is ready to rally behind Hillary, and there are even talks of Elizabeth Warren being her running mate. History and posterity will mark Stein supporters as either those nuisances who didn't make a mark when Hillary gets elected or those dissenters who helped Trump win, either way Stein and her supporters loses.
Lightbringer
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Great, I don't care what history will make of it. Voting for Stein is the morally right thing to do.
Elizabeth Warren, even though she has done good things in the past, has proven to be just another politician by never endorsing Sanders whose political ideology is almost 100% in line with hers. Elizabeth Warren also heavily criticized Clinton in the past. Her endorsing Clinton only makes me lose respect for her and does not sway my vote.
The president is not obliged to listen to their VP. Just look at Obama and Joe Biden. Even if Elizabeth Warren plans to somehow integrate her progressive ideals, Hillary Clinton does not have to comply, nor is there any indication that she will. Hillary will just use Warren as a novelty just like she used Barack Obama in her talking points.
You don't have to be a politician to become a great president. Just look at George Washington. Even FDR was never in congress. Both are known to be some of the greatest presidents in history. There are more examples of this.
SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO
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From what I've seen in the current generation of young voters is that they tend to follow what is "hip", Sanders when he had a fighting chance was the hipster's choice for Democratic Presidential Nominee, and when Bernie showed his political maturity and is going to rally behind Clinton many of his young supporters don't find him so hip anymore so they find a new hipster flavor of the month in the person of Jill Epstein, young voters needs to stop being hip and be mature for a change.
Lightbringer
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That's the silliest argument I've heard.
People didn't vote for Sanders because he was "hip." It's because his policies made sense and gave us hope. College debt is the second largest factor for household debt in the U.S. and Sanders was the first to say that he would make colleges tuition free.
He was the first candidate to have the balls to up against Wallstreet which have sway over our government and the economy.
He did not take money from super PACs or firms like Hillary Clinton and has had a consistent record throughout his life of fighting for equality, unlike Hillary, who flipped on almost every issue when it was convenient for her.
He was the first candidate to even let the BLM movement speak at his rally whereas every other politician simply dismissed them or threw them out.
He was the only candidate to argue for a single-payer universal healthcare system.
No, he gained a movement because people are tired of the current system of government and he was the only person willing to fix it.
Jill Stein has a grass-roots record, is in a party which does not take money from firms or super PACs, and has the same political ideology as Bernie Sanders.
Saying that people vote for Sanders because it's "hip" means you know nothing.
SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO
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What made you recant your previous statement?
Never too late to follow your first instincts.
Lightbringer
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I already stated this in a previous comment on this page by the way. I originally intended to support Hillary to ensure that Donald Trump does not take the presidency.
But that was before I knew of Jill Stein.
That was also before the TPP deal came into play. Once I started seeing that she was in favor of it, new information came into light which made me believe that she is not much better than Trump.
The biggest reason I would have voted for Hillary over Trump is the fact that I believed she would help combat climate change. But I no longer believe this is the case. She promoted fracking and even still supports it, she took money from big oil, along with a few other reasons.
SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO
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You have until November, never too late to change your mind again and give Hillary a chance.
Lightbringer
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No, I probably won't.
You know what's not mature? Voting for a corrupt individual.
You know how change does not happen? By falling in line, especially when there was voter fraud. That's a serious issue of suppressing the voice of the people. There is no justification for this.
If you're telling me I'm hip for not bending to the establishment's will, then I guess the founding fathers were hip for starting a revolution when they felt cheated.
SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO
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Lightbringer
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If I told you to choose between being burned alive, being shot, or having a 30% chance to survive then which choice would you choose?
Are you going to be conflicted?
[video=youtube;RgglPvcLQG0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgglPvcLQG0[/video]
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