Who was the Greatest Hokage

[KisuneUchiha]

Danzo. He has the best genjutsu

Danzo was not officially Hokage he was just a Hokage candidate...or replacement XD

 

[Faceless VoiD]

Minato, just because his my favorite...

 

[KingHashirama]

Right, destroying a democratic rule, putting his overtly paranoid, oppressive, single-minded brother in-charge benefited the Uchiha Clan greatly. Then distributing tailed beasts and keeping the strongest by putting them into vessels to create weapons that do nothing but aid the Hokage in strengthening the village's hold, sure are merits of a great leadership. Raikage made very similar comments before Bee. He basically called him a weapon for Kages to exploit, who do not hold any value beyond this.

The fourth world-war and all the espionage and terrorist activities were carried out to gain supremacy over the other village and snatch the tailed beasts from under the hold of other villages. Mist village used Rin to destroy Konoha, Raikage and Bee attacked Konoha for its acquisition etc etc. And you are telling me he isn't responsible for the direct repercussions of this system and his brother's disgusting policies. I get that Hashirama's goggles are glued tight, but you cannot be this ridiculous? The man sparked an arms-race, knew the darkness in his brother's heart yet did nothing to give back to the Uchiha Clan who trusted him by ousting their own leader? Your lunacy is amazing.

The Uchiha did not revolt because they wanted peace, which is why Madara was thrown out of the clan. They accepted their oppression for more than fifty years, yet Tobirama's long set system had its ripples that emerged in shape of Hizuren, Elders, and Danzo. All of them, Ironically, stood by his Gospel. It was not up to Hashirama to decide who should and shouldn't be Hokage. The Uchiha Clan could have selected one of their own, but the system of Jounin Council, the elders, and Tobirama himself draw a wall around them to completely hinder their political control. The man was utterly disgusting.

A good leader is someone who cares for his people and promotes equality who serve under the banner of Nation. Hashirama, Tobirama, and Hizuren failed drastically; each because of their own glaring frailties and appalling short-comings. As for my opinions that contradict the manga, then it's called story interpretation and analysis based on given facts. If you deny these, then your lunacy has no bounds. Believe whatever you want.

Tobirama's election:

Hashirama had no say in it, if he did Madara would've became the second Hokage.

Spoiler

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Its always been about the people. However, if Hashirama had stopped Tobirama from becoming Hokage then he would've been a dictator. But as Madara states Tobirama was the second choice of the people.

Tailed beasts:

I need scans and proof of where :

- Hashirama used jinchurikis in battle
- Used tailed beasts in battle
- forced Mito to become the kyuubi's jinchuriki.
- Scan of where he hadn't given out the tailed beasts by that point.

What the manga states about this matter:

- Mito chose to become the jinchuriki of the 9-tails, to aide Hashirama. So did you expect Hashirama to give away his wife?

Spoiler

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On top of that he let Kyuubi roam free, until a certain uchiha decided to attack....

Spoiler

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- Mito didn't fight a single battle when she became the jinchuriki... nor did Hashirama use her for anything .. but you took the time to compare Hashirama's relationship to Mito's jinchuriki to that of how Ay treated Killer B, however no scans show that. Hashirama considered her his wife, not a weapon.


4th Ninja war:


- Funny you talk about supremacy, when the reason he spread them out in the first place was to stop this supremacy bullsh*t that had been going since he was a kid. The supremacy you talk about is nothing new. It has always been there. In fact it was even more brutal then it was after Hashirama. Time to start reading the Hashirama flashbacks. Now as I recall, its stated that he actually achieved peace with the negotations. Now the first ninja war was after him. Was it his fault tho? I give you candy to eat, because I believe you deserve it, but instead of enjoying it .. you go out and try to steal more. I'm the one at fault here? Or are you?

Tobirama's actions:

Funny that you say Tobirama had darkness in his heart. Even though under his time Uchiha weren't treated bad. In fact under his time they were made the police. Now yes it was due to him being cautious. But did the Uchiha complain of this? no. Because they understood, that it was the result of Madara's actions. Are you telling me he shouldn't have been careful? (Not saying I support his actions.) But hey you know what I agree he made a mistake on that part. But the thing is that mistake didn't have any consequences. Even the Uchiha loved him as a Hokage. Unless you can show me where a Uchiha insults Tobirama. Or a coup under Tobirama's reign.

Also another thing is, he never went to attack the uchiha nor did he insult them. He was being cautious............ so no hes not a bad hokage. Especially since the very same Uchiha respected him.


Uchiha coup:

Highly, misunderstood on your part. The thing that led to the coup was the blame they got for Kurama's attack. On top of that Danzo. So no Tobirama has no part in this. Unless your someone who likes to put blame on people , even their actions don't have anything to do with it.

"they wanted peace", and who said Konoha wanted war? Danzo didn't follow Tobirama's will. Tobirama never insulted or abused the Uchiha. Nor did he put the blame of Madara's actions on the Uchiha. On top of that your blaming the actions of Hiruzen and Danzo, who are a insult to Tobirama's beliefs..... on Tobirama? You turning out to be a criminal, even though your parents taught you to be a good man , is your parents fault? wtf is with this logic.

Also, Kagami had no problem with Hiruzen becoming Hokage. In fact no Uchiha had a problem with Hiruzen, even Fugaku respected Hiruzen.


Good leader:


And I suppose you believe Minato is that good leader? The same guy who wanted to die with his wife, instead of being Hokage and transforming the system.. is the good leader? oh really?


Hiruzen was a ok-good leader in his first term as Hokage.

Hashirama, the man who made peace. The man who stopped the period of feudal wars, the most devastating period known isn't a good leader? The man who said he will kill even his own family if they tried to mess with the shinobi of the village isn't a good leader? The man who said this, "The fellow countrymen of the Konoha make up each part of my body… those of the village believe in me, and I believe in them… That's what it means to be Hokage!" I'm sorry but you sound mad dumb bro.

Tobirama, was elected by the people. Had no problems in the village during his reign. Established a form of society to benefit the village, wasn't a good leader?

Tsunade, was a good leader without a doubt. Even among the Gokage, shes the best leader.

 

[Ababeel]

Hiruzen.....he is the longest reigning hokage for a reason...he's been able to protect the village without dying longer than any other
and in terms of power, atleast in his prime he was second only to Hashirama
Hiruzen has power comparable to Hashirama, a reign that lasted longer than all the hokages combined (including Tsnuade)...heck, longer than the age of any of the past hokages

I give Minato alot of props for dying a hero but his reign lasted way too short.
Hashirama would be a shoe-in for this being all his ideal, being the most power shinobi in history since the SoT6P
Tobirama was pretty powerful, set up alot of the structures in Konaha but died way too early

Hiruzen survived 2 world wars, achieved unmatched levels of power and cunning earning him the titles "The God of all Shinobi" and "The Professor" and raised 3 of the most powerful/legendary shinobi and left behind a strong legacy

Hiruzen in his prime is not second to Hashi, Hashi IS the one second to Hiruzen. That's because heiruzen is stronger than
him. IF you want to ignore that because the luck if feats, then it's not fair to apply this to the other Hokages either.

you said Hiruzen survived 2 war, but actually he only was in 1 war, the 2nd War the sannin who were fighting
and on the 3rd war it was Minato who brought victory to konoha, no where stated that Hiruzen was participating on the war.

Although Minato died to short, but his legacy (Naruto) continued after him because of what he did!

anyway, I give a lot of credits in this regard to Hashi because he was the one who established the village.
so, perhaps he is the greatest hokage.

 

[KingHashirama]

Hiruzen in his prime is not second to Hashi, Hashi IS the one second to Hiruzen. That's because heiruzen is stronger than
him. IF you want to ignore that because the luck if feats, then it's not fair to apply this to the other Hokages either.

you said Hiruzen survived 2 war, but actually he only was in 1 war, the 2nd War the sannin who were fighting
and on the 3rd war it was Minato who brought victory to konoha, no where stated that Hiruzen was participating on the war.

Although Minato died to short, but his legacy (Naruto) continued after him because of what he did!

anyway, I give a lot of credits in this regard to Hashi because he was the one who established the village.
so, perhaps he is the greatest hokage.

Manga scan for the bold.

 

[Ababeel]

Manga scan for the bold.

oh come on, you know it does exist, but never mind

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another translation

「三代目は　特に歴代の中でも最強と言われポロフェッサーと呼ばれた天才だったんだぞ！」
"The sandaime, in particular, was a genius nicknamed the 'Professor,' and was called the strongest of all the Hokage".

from the Databook


Databook 1, Page 117
"プロフェッサー"と崇められる歴代最強の火影

The "Professor" revered as the strongest Hokage in history.


Databook 1, Page 119
"歴代最強""天才"など,三代目火影を形 容する言葉はに満ちている.

"History's Strongest", "Genius", etc., there are many words that describe the Sandaime Hokage.



DB2 Pg 84
Konohamaru paragraph:
歴代最強の火影と謳われた、三代目� �血を継ぐ木ノ葉丸。“木ノ葉崩し”� ��より敬愛する祖父を失い、その心は 悲しみに覆われる。だが必ずや里を� �る大樹に成長するであろう。果てぬ� ��標の祖父を目指して・ ・・！！

Konohamaru, descended from Sandaime, who was praised as history’s strongest Hokage

enough for you?
there is absolutely nothing stated "except Hashi" lol

 

[KingHashirama]

oh come on, you know it does exist, but never mind

You must be registered for see links

another translation

「三代目は　特に歴代の中でも最強と言われポロフェッサーと呼ばれた天才だったんだぞ！」
"The sandaime, in particular, was a genius nicknamed the 'Professor,' and was called the strongest of all the Hokage".

from the Databook


Databook 1, Page 117
"プロフェッサー"と崇められる歴代最強の火影

The "Professor" revered as the strongest Hokage in history.


Databook 1, Page 119
"歴代最強""天才"など,三代目火影を形 容する言葉はに満ちている.

"History's Strongest", "Genius", etc., there are many words that describe the Sandaime Hokage.



DB2 Pg 84
Konohamaru paragraph:
歴代最強の火影と謳われた、三代目� �血を継ぐ木ノ葉丸。“木ノ葉崩し”� ��より敬愛する祖父を失い、その心は 悲しみに覆われる。だが必ずや里を� �る大樹に成長するであろう。果てぬ� ��標の祖父を目指して・ ・・！！

Konohamaru, descended from Sandaime, who was praised as history’s strongest Hokage

enough for you?
there is absolutely nothing stated "except Hashi" lol

There is nothing stated "Except Hashi"?

As for the Databooks, they go on what the manga provides. Tobi is called Madara why? because in the manga Obito was Madara at that time.

However, in the war it was made clear. That most people didn't believe in Hashirama's powers. He was myth, a fairytail. Pffft, Hiruzen tought it was rude to simply say that someone was stronger then Hashirama.

Keep in mind also, Dan states only Hashirama can stop Madara. If Hiruzen was regarded stronger he would've been able to also. On top of that, Suigetsu only recognized Hashirama as the God of Shinobi, not Hiruzen. Hashirama stayed the god of shinobi even after his death... while Hiruzen was only called so during his "prime"....

 

[Ababeel]

There is nothing stated "Except Hashi"?

As for the Databooks, they go on what the manga provides. Tobi is called Madara why? because in the manga Obito was Madara at that time.

However, in the war it was made clear. That most people didn't believe in Hashirama's powers. He was myth, a fairytail. Pffft, Hiruzen tought it was rude to simply say that someone was stronger then Hashirama.

Keep in mind also, Dan states only Hashirama can stop Madara. If Hiruzen was regarded stronger he would've been able to also. On top of that, Suigetsu only recognized Hashirama as the God of Shinobi, not Hiruzen. Hashirama stayed the god of shinobi even after his death... while Hiruzen was only called so during his "prime"....

it foes not really matter, what we have so far is the fact that Hiruzen is the strongest. There is absolutely no statement to make Hashi is the strongest, but we do have a statement to put above the Gokage all together, and
we know he was the strongest during his area which proved that he's also stronger than Tobirama, That's it.

we don't know which people did not beleive in his power, because if they all though that was nonsense about his
power they would not have called his the god of shinobi!

- Not necessarily, that's only A>B>C logic which is wrong.
it does not matter either if suigetsu recognized hashi as such, because that does not change the fact that
Hiruzen has the title as well, also, Hashirama is in his prime even as an edo, but Hiruzen is an old man, the same one
who thought he can't even defeat Oro.

anyway, I have put the proofs, it's up to you if you want to take it or not.

Thanks. =D

 

[KingHashirama]

it foes not really matter, what we have so far is the fact that Hiruzen is the strongest. There is absolutely no statement to make Hashi is the strongest, but we do have a statement to put above the Gokage all together, and
we know he was the strongest during his area which proved that he's also stronger than Tobirama, That's it.

we don't know which people did not beleive in his power, because if they all though that was nonsense about his
power they would not have called his the god of shinobi!

- Not necessarily, that's only A>B>C logic which is wrong.
it does not matter either if suigetsu recognized hashi as such, because that does not change the fact that
Hiruzen has the title as well, also, Hashirama is in his prime even as an edo, but Hiruzen is an old man, the same one
who thought he can't even defeat Oro.

anyway, I have put the proofs, it's up to you if you want to take it or not.

Thanks. =D

Clearly you did not read my post. And A>B>C logic wrong? not when it comes to the top characters its not. If Hiruzen can't even take on Madara what makes you think he can take on Hashirama?

Did you also just ignore what i said? That Hiruzen's hype was put down by Dan, and on top of that it was built in a time where Hashirama's powers were said to be a simply myth..... Did you also ignore the part where i said that Suigetsu only recognized Hashirama as the God of Shinobi.

Hashirama is in his prime? scan please. Because Hashirama died as a grandfather. Grandfather doesn't = prime, in this manga.

 

[Son Ryuto Uzumaki]

@bold, no. It was always Hashirama's idea to form the village. Hence why Tobirama stated Hashirama is the one who founded the village.

Hiruzen was not the dream of the First and the Second. Also, Hashirama was already dead when Hiruzen became Hokage. So only Tobirama picked him to be Hokage.


As Hokage the greatest would be:

-Hashirama senju - establishment of the ninja world

- Tobirama Senju - implanting the structure

- Tsunade Senju - Medical laws for ALL the shinobi world.

No it was Tobirama's Idea to make the ninja system while Hashirama vented his emotions manga 622 page 12. And yes Hiruzen was their dream one who they thought would make true peace its in the episodes around when Hiruzen died in the first arc. and I said Tsunade don't count

 

[Oksus]

Hashirama - Strongest
Tobirama - Smartest
Hiruzen - Most beloved = which I find makes him the best Hokage.
Minato - Overall Best
Tsunade - Most female ? xD

 

[KingHashirama]

No it was Tobirama's Idea to make the ninja system while Hashirama vented his emotions manga 622 page 12. And yes Hiruzen was their dream one who they thought would make true peace its in the episodes around when Hiruzen died in the first arc. and I said Tsunade don't count

@ Bold, go watch that episode, it never happened.

- I provided Tsunade because shes better then Minato and Hiruzen

@ underlined, Tobirama wanted to make rules, not a village. Hashirama said to make a alliance. The village wasn't even mentioned by Tobirama.

This is where Hashirama comes up with the idea of the village:

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[Son Ryuto Uzumaki]

Ignorant.
He was the one who ordered Itachi to finish off the Uchiha Clan and saved Konoha from killing off the Uchiha if they were to ever attack the village. He also had the longest reign of any Hokage, which means his reign was probably one of the best.
Orochimaru only had the balls to fight an old Hiruzen so he'd have the advantage.

He had the longest reign as hokage because he never went to the frontline after he became Hokage which all the other Kages had Done and no it was Donzo with the Uchiha massacre.

 

[Son Ryuto Uzumaki]

@ Bold, go watch that episode, it never happened.

- I provided Tsunade because shes better then Minato and Hiruzen

@ underlined, Tobirama wanted to make rules, not a village. Hashirama said to make a alliance. The village wasn't even mentioned by Tobirama.

This is where Hashirama comes up with the idea of the village:

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No it was still Tobirama who brought structure with Democracy will Hashirama wanted a One sided vote for Madara to be Hokage, man what are you talking about when Hiruzen was a little boy looking at the Village when Tobirama and Hashirama looked at him and told him that he would be the future hokage

 

[Son Ryuto Uzumaki]

Enough with the people pulling up scans with them saying how Hiruzen is the strongest hokage ever because we know thats not true the people who lived in his era knew not true War or Power

 

[-Punk-]

Minato is the best hokage no diff.

 

[H a n]

None of them are greatest. All of them made mistakes.

First failed to kill off Madara.

Second put the Uchiha in a different part of the village and provoked them into wanting to betray the village. Also made Edo's.. Like really bad since it leads to the third dying and they are the power house for the war.(Madara.)

Third allowed the Uchiha clan to get slaughtered.. Like what kind of kage allows such a thing. Should have sat down and talked it out.

Fourth.. Rin and Obito were both genin/ chunnin (Forgot which one.) So... he should have been with his team instead of being all over the battlefield, leading to Obito dying and Madara finding him. Creating a villain.

Tsunade the only one that has not messed up. She has done nothing but positive for the village(Don't go saying she let Pain blow up the village because it is no way she could have stopped that crap.)She made it to the point that each team has a medic ninja. She is a role model for Naruto that is doing most of the work as it is.

Danzo. .Well we know he messed up. He killed his fair share of Uchiha.

I choose Tsunade.(Haters gonna hate. I like the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. I am not a big fan of Tsunade but she wins this. Fanboys just hiding from the truth. Best kage don't have to be the strongest. kage..)

 

[Minator93]

For now its Hiruzen U_U

Hashirama was great, his vision, his ideology but he reign was short because we see that Tobirama was made the second Hokage before Hashirama dies meaning he took over. Why? Clearly he was the brains and created a system for everyone to follow. It was as Tobirama said that Hashirama was naive and Madara dangerous.

Now Tobirama is arguably the greatest but wouldn't take the top spot because of what Hiruzen achieved. Hiruzen lead Konoha to victory in all the past world-wars. He was a fighting force/leader in field in the first war. Tobirama as a Hokage needed to enter the war because he didn't have the man-power or trained shinobis under his command and he died in the midst of war and Hiruzen was left with overwhelming responsibility of everyone at an young age.

Hiruzen not only won the 1st war but made sure that if the situation ever arrived that Leaf will be prepared. He was feared as the God of Shinobi and was said to be even greater than Hashirama in his absolute Prime. It was his vision that Konoha won the next two wars before being invaded. He always reaminied in the village for its protection and protected it like his own offspring and hence he was the village's beloved father.

The invasion of the leaf happened when he was retired [Kyuubi incident] or when he was very old[Oro] or when he was [dead] not in his main time!! Had Minato survived the kyuubi incident the other invasions would have never happened but he didn't. So during his time he not only won all the world wars but made sure that the leaf was untouched!! It was only when he was retired, very old and after his death leaf was attacked. No one dared to touch the village during his prime.

So its Hiruzen!!

 

[Tobby17]

look at the poll, and you know the amount of Minatards on Narutobase is off the charts. Seriously, what did Minato do as Hokage apart from dying???.. He protected the village, sure, but he also made his son the Kyuubi's Jinchuuriki and made his life miserable as a kid, leading to his son being discriminated and pushed aside by most. Moreover it is your duty as Hokage to protect the village, Hashirama did the same, yet ppl still claim he's the worst????

secondly, the amount of Tobirama bashing in this thread is just f*cking stupid, the Uchihas are paranoid if anything, and they do have bipolar tendencies. For ppl who claim that Uchihas were ''kicked out'' of the village, think again. The Uchihas had their own quaters in the village, but so did the Hyuga clan. Was the Hyuga clan also discriminated against?, did they plan a coup??. Moreover the Uchihas had a special position in the village, where they could use the power in their eyes specially for the sake/good of the village. So blaming Tobirama for their massacre (which was mainly bcoz they did plan a coup which Tobirama suspected) is uncalled for. If anything, Hiruzen should take the blame, it happened during his time, after the Uchihas were ''discriminated'' because of the 9 tails attack which has NOTHING to do with Tobirama.

Tobirama wasn't a saint, and I'm not trying to portray him as one, but Minato isn't perfect either as you all are trying to make him out to be, neither was he the best Hokage, Tobirama did more for the village than Minato did

 

[KingHashirama]

No it was still Tobirama who brought structure with Democracy will Hashirama wanted a One sided vote for Madara to be Hokage, man what are you talking about when Hiruzen was a little boy looking at the Village when Tobirama and Hashirama looked at him and told him that he would be the future hokage

So your gonna deny manga facts? Ok so Tobirama brought in democracy good for him. But here is the thing, Hashirama was a political genius while Tobirama wasn't. Hashirama was actually able to create peace, while Tobirama wasn't.

Man idk wth your talking about, cause noone looked at him and said that.