Who was the Greatest Hokage

[A$AP Wap]

According to you the Uchiha massacre was a good thing. It was necessary but a better Hokage would have stopped the Coup without the massacre

I'm just speaking in that respective Hokage's point of view.
...and I'm not sure anyone could have stopped the coup without bloodshed. If the Uchihas were going to try and destroy Konoha, Konoha would have to fight back in some way shape or fashion, so killing the Uchiha off would've been done either way in the end.

 

[Saiyan Kammy]

Hashirama .

 

[MinatoTheYellowFlash]

The best and my favorite!!!
This Man!!!

Spoiler

Kept the village safe for 50+ years.

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And because of the "Will of Fire" and his compassionate personality!

Spoiler

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That shet is way overdue and lame :|
He has done jack sh!t but seal Orochi's hands xD
He was sand to know many jutsu and use flucking shuriken on a half sage, he's last.

 

[GrayParadise]

They're all equal.
But Tobirama has the most impressive resume.

 

[KingHashirama]

Who was the greatest hokage we know that it was originally Tobirama's ideal to form the village and its Structure, It became Hashirama's dream to make the Village to put an end to War, Hiruzen was the Dream of both Hashirama and Tobirama, they told him when he was a little boy that he was going to become the Hokage but when he was the Hokage he was shity, Minato was a One man Army so all enemies feared him so he would have but an end to the wars Hiruzen allowed but his life was given to protect the village and his family. So who was the Greatest

@bold, no. It was always Hashirama's idea to form the village. Hence why Tobirama stated Hashirama is the one who founded the village.

Hiruzen was not the dream of the First and the Second. Also, Hashirama was already dead when Hiruzen became Hokage. So only Tobirama picked him to be Hokage.


As Hokage the greatest would be:

-Hashirama senju - establishment of the ninja world

- Tobirama Senju - implanting the structure

- Tsunade Senju - Medical laws for ALL the shinobi world.

 

[Crossroads]

I didn't say power? Minato is awesome yes, but did he lay down the foundation for shinobis and their villages? Hashirama was the first and most important. Don't think I'm hating either, Minato is obviously my fav.

"his feats seem a little underwhelming when compared to Hashi" - Avery Namikaze

Because people on this website are talking about political leadership when they address the word "feat".

No.

I always agree with some of the things you post in all your posts, but you ruin it by posting dumb shit like Hashirama wasn't a good leader, and Tsunade did a better job than Tobirama.

It's
Hashirama > Tobirama > Hiruzen > Minato > Tsunade
(Wow. They get worse as they pick new Hokage every time)

Why?

• Hashirama was respected by all and saved the village from Madara and was hailed as the God of all Shinobi.
  
• Tobirama actually did something about the Uchiha and stopped them from planning to cause a ruckus in Konoha.
  
• Hiruzen finished off Tobirama's job and had Itachi kill off the rest of the clan before they started the ruckus.
  
• Minato was a good Hokage, but he died protecting the village, which Hashirama did, but stayed alive in the process. Not to mention Hashirama fought an EMS User, Perfect Susano'o, AND Kurama. Minato just fought his 14-Year old, inexperienced former student along with Kurama.
  
• Tsunade did a complete shit job as Hokage. If she was so good, why did she let Pain fodderize all of Konoha and almost get solo'd by a single Path of Pain? She had to leave it to Naruto to beat Pain, but without Minato, he would've failed.

EDIT: You could probably say Minato > Hiruzen, but that's about it.
That would make the list:
Hashirama > Tobirama > Minato > Hiruzen > Tsunade

1. First and foremost, Hashirama was revered as the God of Shinobi. And protecting the village from Madara was probably the only good politcal leadership argument he has. He was respected because he was powerful, but that doesn't necessarily make him a good leader, as power isn't everything. (Though it's probably the second largest factor)

Hashirama could have settled his non-violence agreement with the villages in other ways, not boosting their military power like a complete buffoon.

2. Tobirama despised the Uchiha as a whole, whether he accepts that or not matters not, his personal liking to a select few in the clan doesn't justify the fact that he saw the Uchiha clan as a nuisance. The Coup might have never happened if it weren't for Tobirama's rule, and Tobirama also stripped democracy from the election of Hokage, making it an Elder selection. And as we've seen from the Manga, the Elder's aren't so wise.

3. Hiruzen is almost as bad as Hashirama, he let Danzo do all his dirty work, he let Orochimaru escape, he let un-allied villages into his home village (Chuunin Exams, God that was so damn stupid) He let Danzo have too much word in the Uchiha Coup, pretty much doing his job.

4. The only reason Minato is placed at my #1 spot is because he reigned with no shown negative effects, and died protecting his village.

5. I used to think this way as well, when I didn't look at the big picture. Tsunade's only down side to being Hokage was relying on Naruto to defend the village, that's it. When honestly, Tobirama, Hiruzen, and possibly even Minato couldn't have taken down Pain either. Tsunade made actual peace with Suna, and is loved by her village, and has shown no negative political leadership other than not being able to defeat Pain, which is only something that could be done by 1 other Kage for sure.

I really think you should reevaluate what makes someone a good leader.

 

[A$AP Wap]

That shet is way overdue and lame :|
He has done jack sh!t but seal Orochi's hands xD
He was sand to know many jutsu and use flucking shuriken on a half sage, he's last.

Ignorant.
He was the one who ordered Itachi to finish off the Uchiha Clan and saved Konoha from killing off the Uchiha if they were to ever attack the village. He also had the longest reign of any Hokage, which means his reign was probably one of the best.
Orochimaru only had the balls to fight an old Hiruzen so he'd have the advantage.

 

[shelke]

Other than Minato and Tsunade all of them were bastards. Hashirama's tailed-beast free-for-all distribution plunged the world into chaos. He never managed to alter his brother's paranoia and extreme political ideals. He destroyed the democratic system by selecting his brother and that was the onslaught of the poor political system within the village.

Tobirama was paranoid beyond belief and a terrible choice for leadership given his contentions and lack for spirit to actually reconcile with a Clan who left all behind for a peaceful existence. His disgusting mindset to keep the surveillance produced brilliant minds like Danzo and Hizuren who did worse if not more than himself. His political infrastructure to maintain a dictatorial rule was solely done to keep Uchiha Clan out of power. He didn't fully accept peace, nor did he save Hyuga Clan's branch from their terrible oppression.

Both clans were oppressed and when Hizuren took charge, he never halted the surveillance, let Uchiha Clan get massacred from which Danzo greatly benefited. Let him carry out utterly despicable terrorist acts by murdering whomever he felt necessary so he could crawl his way up to Hokage seat. Not to mention how he treated and recruited Root Members. He let a mass murderer walk free and never eased the plight of the branch family.

If all these mishaps, intolerable oppressive acts, and tyrannical rule translates into good leaders then I would question the ethics of the person making such a claim.

 

[Crossroads]

Other than Minato and Tsunade all of them were bastards. Hashirama's tailed-beast free-for-all distribution plunged the world into chaos. He never managed to alter his brother's paranoia and extreme political ideals. He destroyed the democratic system by selecting his brother and that was the onslaught of the poor political system within the village.

Tobirama was paranoid beyond belief and a terrible choice for leadership given his contentions and lack for spirit to actually reconcile with a Clan who left all behind for a peaceful existence. His disgusting mindset to keep the surveillance produced brilliant minds like Danzo and Hizuren who did worse if not more than himself. His political infrastructure to maintain a dictatorial rule was solely done to keep Uchiha Clan out of power. He didn't fully accept peace, nor did he save Hyuga Clan's branch from their terrible oppression.

Both clans were oppressed and when Hizuren took charge, he never halted the surveillance, let Uchiha Clan get massacred from which Danzo greatly benefited. Let him carry out utterly despicable terrorist acts by murdering whomever he felt necessary so he could crawl his way up to Hokage seat. Not to mention how he treated and recruited Root Members. He let a mass murderer walk free and never eased the plight of the branch family.

If all these mishaps, intolerable oppressive acts, and tyrannical rule translates into good leaders then I would question the ethics of the person making such a claim.

Oooooooooohh kill em.

I agree 100%.

 

[A$AP Wap]

"his feats seem a little underwhelming when compared to Hashi" - Avery Namikaze

Because people on this website are talking about political leadership when they address the word "feat".

No.



1. First and foremost, Hashirama was revered as the God of Shinobi. And protecting the village from Madara was probably the only good politcal leadership argument he has. He was respected because he was powerful, but that doesn't necessarily make him a good leader, as power isn't everything. (Though it's probably the second largest factor)

Hashirama could have settled his non-violence agreement with the villages in other ways, not boosting their military power like a complete buffoon.

2. Tobirama despised the Uchiha as a whole, whether he accepts that or not matters not, his personal liking to a select few in the clan doesn't justify the fact that he saw the Uchiha clan as a nuisance. The Coup might have never happened if it weren't for Tobirama's rule, and Tobirama also stripped democracy from the election of Hokage, making it an elder selection. And as we've seen from the Manga, the Elder's aren't so wise.

3. Hiruzen is almost as bad as Hashirama, he let Danzo do all his dirty work, he let Orochimaru escape, he let un-allied village into his home village (Chuunin Exams, God that was so damn stupid) He let Danzo have too much word in the Uchiha Coup, pretty much doing his job.

4. The only reason Minato is placed at my #1 spot is because he reigned with no shown negative effects, and died protecting his village.

5. I used to think this way as well, when I didn't look at the big picture. Tsunade's only down side to being Hokage was relying on Naruto to defend the village, that's it. When honestly, Tobirama, Hiruzen, and possibly even Minato couldn't have taken down Pain either. Tsunade made actual peace with Suna, and is loved by her village, and has shown no negative political leadership other than not being able to defeat Pain, which is only something that could be done by 1 other Kage for sure.

I really think you should reevaluate what makes someone a good leader.

• Hashirama founded Konohagakure and influenced other leaders to form villages. He was the one who started the Shinobi government and started the whole thing off, so I don't see why you're acting as if he did bad. The only thing that wasn't explained was his death.
  
• That's your opinion that the elders weren't so wise. It was Shisui's Sharingan that Danzo used to take control over the Elder's decisions most likely. Tobirama actually did something to keep the Uchiha Clan from plotting against Konoha.
  
• Stopped reading when you said Hiruzen was bad as you thought Hashirama was. Hiruzen had the longest run, and probably one of the best runs because he lived so long and was known by everybody.
  
• Minato had the shortest reign as Hokage and was a better Jonin than Hokage. If it wasn't for his Jonin popularity, he wouldn't have become such a well-known Hokage. In my opinion, he should've stayed Jonin Ranked, but Kage leveled skill wise.
  
• Your thing about Tsunade... If you can't protect your own village, how could you be called the leader? If you have to rely on other people to protect what you have power over, you shouldn't even be in power.

 

[iNotorious]

Other than Minato and Tsunade all of them were bastards. Hashirama's tailed-beast free-for-all distribution plunged the world into chaos. He never managed to alter his brother's paranoia and extreme political ideals. He destroyed the democratic system by selecting his brother and that was the onslaught of the poor political system within the village.

Tobirama was paranoid beyond belief and a terrible choice for leadership given his contentions and lack for spirit to actually reconcile with a Clan who left all behind for a peaceful existence. His disgusting mindset to keep the surveillance produced brilliant minds like Danzo and Hizuren who did worse if not more than himself. His political infrastructure to maintain a dictatorial rule was solely done to keep Uchiha Clan out of power. He didn't fully accept peace, nor did he save Hyuga Clan's branch from their terrible oppression.

Both clans were oppressed and when Hizuren took charge, he never halted the surveillance, let Uchiha Clan get massacred from which Danzo greatly benefited. Let him carry out utterly despicable terrorist acts by murdering whomever he felt necessary so he could crawl his way up to Hokage seat. Not to mention how he treated and recruited Root Members. He let a mass murderer walk free and never eased the plight of the branch family.

If all these mishaps, intolerable oppressive acts, and tyrannical rule translates into good leaders then I would question the ethics of the person making such a claim.

Shelke soloed the thread! I couldn't have said it better it myself!

 

[Crossroads]

• Hashirama founded Konohagakure and influenced other leaders to form villages. He was the one who started the Shinobi government and started the whole thing off, so I don't see why you're acting as if he did bad. The only thing that wasn't explained was his death.
  
• That's your opinion that the elders weren't so wise. It was Shisui's Sharingan that Danzo used to take control over the Elder's decisions most likely. Tobirama actually did something to keep the Uchiha Clan from plotting against Konoha.
  
• Stopped reading when you said Hiruzen was bad as you thought Hashirama was. Hiruzen had the longest run, and probably one of the best runs because he lived so long and was known by everybody.
  
• Minato had the shortest reign as Hokage and was a better Jonin than Hokage. If it wasn't for his Jonin popularity, he wouldn't have become such a well-known Hokage. In my opinion, he should've stayed Jonin Ranked, but Kage leveled skill wise.
  
• Your thing about Tsunade... If you can't protect your own village, how could you be called the leader? If you have to rely on other people to protect what you have power over, you shouldn't even be in power.

I'm not going to discuss this any farther, shelke pretty much solo'd this thread.
(And your thought process is pretty comical)

 

[Snape Uchiha]

Other than Minato and Tsunade all of them were bastards. Hashirama's tailed-beast free-for-all distribution plunged the world into chaos. He never managed to alter his brother's paranoia and extreme political ideals. He destroyed the democratic system by selecting his brother and that was the onslaught of the poor political system within the village.

Tobirama was paranoid beyond belief and a terrible choice for leadership given his contentions and lack for spirit to actually reconcile with a Clan who left all behind for a peaceful existence. His disgusting mindset to keep the surveillance produced brilliant minds like Danzo and Hizuren who did worse if not more than himself. His political infrastructure to maintain a dictatorial rule was solely done to keep Uchiha Clan out of power. He didn't fully accept peace, nor did he save Hyuga Clan's branch from their terrible oppression.

Both clans were oppressed and when Hizuren took charge, he never halted the surveillance, let Uchiha Clan get massacred from which Danzo greatly benefited. Let him carry out utterly despicable terrorist acts by murdering whomever he felt necessary so he could crawl his way up to Hokage seat. Not to mention how he treated and recruited Root Members. He let a mass murderer walk free and never eased the plight of the branch family.

If all these mishaps, intolerable oppressive acts, and tyrannical rule translates into good leaders then I would question the ethics of the person making such a claim.

Shelke is probably my favorite person on this base. Great post as usual.

 

[KingHashirama]

Other than Minato and Tsunade all of them were bastards. Hashirama's tailed-beast free-for-all distribution plunged the world into chaos. He never managed to alter his brother's paranoia and extreme political ideals. He destroyed the democratic system by selecting his brother and that was the onslaught of the poor political system within the village.

Tobirama was paranoid beyond belief and a terrible choice for leadership given his contentions and lack for spirit to actually reconcile with a Clan who left all behind for a peaceful existence. His disgusting mindset to keep the surveillance produced brilliant minds like Danzo and Hizuren who did worse if not more than himself. His political infrastructure to maintain a dictatorial rule was solely done to keep Uchiha Clan out of power. He didn't fully accept peace, nor did he save Hyuga Clan's branch from their terrible oppression.

Both clans were oppressed and when Hizuren took charge, he never halted the surveillance, let Uchiha Clan get massacred from which Danzo greatly benefited. Let him carry out utterly despicable terrorist acts by murdering whomever he felt necessary so he could crawl his way up to Hokage seat. Not to mention how he treated and recruited Root Members. He let a mass murderer walk free and never eased the plight of the branch family.

If all these mishaps, intolerable oppressive acts, and tyrannical rule translates into good leaders then I would question the ethics of the person making such a claim.

So it was Hashirama's distribution that plunged the world into chaos? Because the manga says the world was in worst chaos then currently, and when Hashirama came along he established peace for the first time in a long time. As for your "free for all" argument. That was the smartest political move he made. If Konoha had kept all the tailed beasts , what was stopping people like Danzo to start going dictator mode? Do you believe people were gonna believe Konoha in their regards to peace? He selected his brother? which manga are you reading?? Madara himself stated Tobirama was next best choice the people were gonna pick for Hokage. Hashirama didn't have to pick Tobirama, the people picked him. Blaming the decisions of other idiots on the person who according to the manga said created peace.. is pretty unlogical.

Tobirama yes was wrong on the whole Uchiha surveillance. However, we have yet to see an Uchiha say Tobirama was a bad Hokage. NO UCHIHA REVOLTED UNDER TOBIRAMA'S REIGN. All the revolt started under Hiruzen's reign, where Danzo was f*cking things up. So bad logic there also.


As for Minato.. what your telling me is, Minato was a good hokage, because he was in office for short and chose to kill himself so he can die with his wife? is that why? He could've easily made Naruto the jinchuriki later on, and would've still served as Hokage and took control of some leadership. He showed no leadership qualities under his reign.


Tsunade, no flaws to her. She didn't do anything bad, people who complain about Sasuke's agenda. Simply don't know what a missing -nin and a kidnapped nin are.


Most of your post is derived on your delusional opinions that contradict the manga , and on top of that you put the blame on people who weren't even responsible for the things that happened.

 

[Xlad]

Spoiler

Other than Minato and Tsunade all of them were bastards. Hashirama's tailed-beast free-for-all distribution plunged the world into chaos. He never managed to alter his brother's paranoia and extreme political ideals. He destroyed the democratic system by selecting his brother and that was the onslaught of the poor political system within the village.

Tobirama was paranoid beyond belief and a terrible choice for leadership given his contentions and lack for spirit to actually reconcile with a Clan who left all behind for a peaceful existence. His disgusting mindset to keep the surveillance produced brilliant minds like Danzo and Hizuren who did worse if not more than himself. His political infrastructure to maintain a dictatorial rule was solely done to keep Uchiha Clan out of power. He didn't fully accept peace, nor did he save Hyuga Clan's branch from their terrible oppression.

Both clans were oppressed and when Hizuren took charge, he never halted the surveillance, let Uchiha Clan get massacred from which Danzo greatly benefited. Let him carry out utterly despicable terrorist acts by murdering whomever he felt necessary so he could crawl his way up to Hokage seat. Not to mention how he treated and recruited Root Members. He let a mass murderer walk free and never eased the plight of the branch family.

If all these mishaps, intolerable oppressive acts, and tyrannical rule translates into good leaders then I would question the ethics of the person making such a claim.

Yep, Hashirama was a retard in terms of political matters. This is practically why I don't consider them so great anymore, tbh.

 

[Crossroads]

Yep, Hashirama was a retard in terms of political matters. This is practically why I don't consider them so great anymore, tbh.

I laugh at anyone who calls Hashirama or Hiruzen good Hokage's..

 

[KingHashirama]

Yep, Hashirama was a retard in terms of political matters. This is practically why I don't consider them so great anymore, tbh.

enlighten us on what he should've done. Not make peace? Make Konoha the strongest nation? Not make the village? Let idiots like Madara use the tailed beasts? Enlighten us oh great one.

 

[shelke]

So it was Hashirama's distribution that plunged the world into chaos? Because the manga says the world was in worst chaos then currently, and when Hashirama came along he established peace for the first time in a long time. As for your "free for all" argument. That was the smartest political move he made. If Konoha had kept all the tailed beasts , what was stopping people like Danzo to start going dictator mode? Do you believe people were gonna believe Konoha in their regards to peace? He selected his brother? which manga are you reading?? Madara himself stated Tobirama was next best choice the people were gonna pick for Hokage. Hashirama didn't have to pick Tobirama, the people picked him. Blaming the decisions of other idiots on the person who according to the manga said created peace.. is pretty unlogical.

Tobirama yes was wrong on the whole Uchiha surveillance. However, we have yet to see an Uchiha say Tobirama was a bad Hokage. NO UCHIHA REVOLTED UNDER TOBIRAMA'S REIGN. All the revolt started under Hiruzen's reign, where Danzo was f*cking things up. So bad logic there also.


As for Minato.. what your telling me is, Minato was a good hokage, because he was in office for short and chose to kill himself so he can die with his wife? is that why? He could've easily made Naruto the jinchuriki later on, and would've still served as Hokage and took control of some leadership. He showed no leadership qualities under his reign.


Tsunade, no flaws to her. She didn't do anything bad, people who complain about Sasuke's agenda. Simply don't know what a missing -nin and a kidnapped nin are.


Most of your post is derived on your delusional opinions that contradict the manga , and on top of that you put the blame on people who weren't even responsible for the things that happened.

Right, destroying a democratic rule, putting his overtly paranoid, oppressive, single-minded brother in-charge benefited the Uchiha Clan greatly. Then distributing tailed beasts and keeping the strongest by putting them into vessels to create weapons that do nothing but aid the Hokage in strengthening the village's hold, sure are merits of a great leadership. Raikage made very similar comments before Bee. He basically called him a weapon for Kages to exploit, who do not hold any value beyond this.

The fourth world-war and all the espionage and terrorist activities were carried out to gain supremacy over the other village and snatch the tailed beasts from under the hold of other villages. Mist village used Rin to destroy Konoha, Raikage and Bee attacked Konoha for its acquisition etc etc. And you are telling me he isn't responsible for the direct repercussions of this system and his brother's disgusting policies. I get that Hashirama's goggles are glued tight, but you cannot be this ridiculous? The man sparked an arms-race, knew the darkness in his brother's heart yet did nothing to give back to the Uchiha Clan who trusted him by ousting their own leader? Your lunacy is amazing.

The Uchiha did not revolt because they wanted peace, which is why Madara was thrown out of the clan. They accepted their oppression for more than fifty years, yet Tobirama's long set system had its ripples that emerged in shape of Hizuren, Elders, and Danzo. All of them, Ironically, stood by his Gospel. It was not up to Hashirama to decide who should and shouldn't be Hokage. The Uchiha Clan could have selected one of their own, but the system of Jounin Council, the elders, and Tobirama himself draw a wall around them to completely hinder their political control. The man was utterly disgusting.

A good leader is someone who cares for his people and promotes equality who serve under the banner of Nation. Hashirama, Tobirama, and Hizuren failed drastically; each because of their own glaring frailties and appalling short-comings. As for my opinions that contradict the manga, then it's called story interpretation and analysis based on given facts. If you deny these, then your lunacy has no bounds. Believe whatever you want.

 

[HBKJames]

Hiruzen.....he is the longest reigning hokage for a reason...he's been able to protect the village without dying longer than any other
and in terms of power, atleast in his prime he was second only to Hashirama
Hiruzen has power comparable to Hashirama, a reign that lasted longer than all the hokages combined (including Tsnuade)...heck, longer than the age of any of the past hokages

I give Minato alot of props for dying a hero but his reign lasted way too short.
Hashirama would be a shoe-in for this being all his ideal, being the most power shinobi in history since the SoT6P
Tobirama was pretty powerful, set up alot of the structures in Konaha but died way too early

Hiruzen survived 2 world wars, achieved unmatched levels of power and cunning earning him the titles "The God of all Shinobi" and "The Professor" and raised 3 of the most powerful/legendary shinobi and left behind a strong legacy

 

[Son Ryuto Uzumaki]

For Me its Tobirama>Hashirama>Minato>.............................Hiruzen I thought I said Tsunade was not included. For Me First It was Tobirama's dream and he is the one who invented damn near everything he helped form and structure every village's foundation He didn't get the chance to finish because he sacrificed himself for his crew and village. Next is Hashirama he just wanted everyone to be equal,happy and free. Next is Minato because he was like Hashirama and Tobirama combined he was make structure along with the vision of Peace while knowing what had to be done along the road of peace. Hiruzen I'm done he uh, he uh made piece of shit decisions