I saw Sasuke since he was able to summon Manda with no chakra and reverse summon himself in a random location as fast as he did. The fight was completely fair but the moment Sasuke should have lost he won.
Naruto's was slightly more reasonable IMO because the fox has always pulled those kinda stunts with Naruto.
I saw Sasuke since he was able to summon Manda with no chakra and reverse summon himself in a random location as fast as he did. The fight was completely fair but the moment Sasuke should have lost he won.
Naruto's was slightly more reasonable IMO because the fox has always pulled those kinda stunts with Naruto.
Sasuke defeated deidara before deidara went for suicide explosion. So i think it was a legit fight and deidara accepted his defeat which is why he went as far as to suicide.
Anyways, We all know obito needed sasuke so he would have saved sasuke anyway.
And sasuke was low on chakra and not out of chakra .
Naruto vs pain fight was too much plot shield , we all know in a fair fight, 6pop > SM Naruto
But if we have to ask same thing about 3t sasuke vs deidara, we all can agree , 3t sasuke > deidara.
Kurama solos plot.Now about Sasuke and asspulls i mean come on,the whole concept of Uchiha powers is dat pain of loss...so i guess they can asspull as much as they want
There's no doubt that both of them had plot to help them since they're 2 of the main characters. The question is, who got more of a plot boost?
Naruto:
In the invasion of Pain arc, Deva Path lost his powers until later in the fight. This would be plot, but Naruto had proved that he could withstand and beat Deva Path in base mode, let alone SM. So, jury's still out on whether or not it would make a difference. However, it certainly would be more difficult.
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Naruto had info on Pain's abilities. This is true, but he clearly didn't know everything. He certainly didn't know about Deva, Human Path, and Asura Path, at all. On top of this, he clearly didn't know which path had which power. This means he had to think on the fly.
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Some have actually said that Human Path sacrificing itself to save Animal path was a plot advantage for Naruto since Animal Path is "useless." Let me ask you this. What sounds more useful against a guy who has you hopelessly outmatched in speed. The ability to kill someone by touching them even though they're much faster than you and don't have to touch you to attack, or the ability to summon multiple, diverse monsters? Clearly the later.
"Animal path didn't use the chameleon." Does anyone really think that this would make a difference? Naruto clearly doesn't need to see his opponents in SM.
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It was plot that Hinata and Kurama helped Naruto. It's plot that Hinata helped Naruto, but anger triggers the 9 tails. It's plot that Kurama didn't take control of Naruto sooner. Naruto lost it when confronting Orochimaru for manipulating Sasuke. Pain made him loose the his primary father figure and Kakashi. I think he was madder than he was at Orochimaru.
As for getting pinned, that was actually plot.
Pain threw Pa at Naruto after he killed him, and Naruto caught him.:| Naruto decided that catching a frog that's already dead is more important than preparing to defend himself and Pain relying on dirty tricks. Yeah, that's plot.
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Minato helping Naruto. Yeah, that's plot. But the only one it'd save is the villagers and Pain. It didn't really help Naruto at all. It just let him show off how strong he is in SM and base mode against Pain.
So there were things in plot that helped Naruto, but there were things in plot that hurt Naruto. Now for Sasuke Vs Deidera.
Deidera had the plot advantage of being the rival of Itachi and had techniques to counter sharingan. That's all the plot did against Sasuke that I know of.
Deidera had an earth style. Sasuke had a lighting style to counter it. I consider this plot, but it could be said that it was likely that Deidera was an earth style anyway, but that doesn't excuse the fact that Sasuke just happened to have the exact jutsu to neutralize it.
Deidera got him.
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Sasuke would not have been able to survive C4 without chidori stream. It was the only jutsu that could neutralize c4. That's plot.
Also, there's this.
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Sasuke saved himself by summoning Manda and using him as a shield. Here's what's wrong with this. He was nearly out of chakra.
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Yet, he managed to summon Manda. If I recall, summoning larger creatures is a real drain on chakra. Jiraya has immense chakra. Yet, when his power was cut in half when drugged, he couldn't summon Gamabunta until he recovered somewhat. Yet, Sasuke can summon Manda while having near to no chakra left? That there is just plot.
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Over all, Naruto's fight had some plot to his advantage, but it had plot to his disadvantage which evens it out. Sasuke had a lot of plot as well. Sasuke's fight was greater than or equal to Naruto's fight in plot advantages. Poll your thoughts and comment.
Your smart man, you debunked all the plotshield arguments for Naruto but failed to do so for Sasuke. Most of the readers will vote for Sasuke simply because of the way you wrote this.
Oh and on top of that, you count the ma and pa incident als a plot against Naruto. But Obito hiding boms for Deidera is not a plot against Sasuke? LOL
Sasuke would have killed Deidara much earlier if it weren't for plot so, I'm going to say Naruto v Pain.
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You can argue on these points but the 2nd is irrefutable in my opinion. He uses chidori nagashi later on so, he had sufficient chakra levels to chidori Deidara in the face if he wished it. Deidara was saved by plot.
Sasuke also implies that he had another counter to Deidara's doton. Saying Raiton > Doton is the only reason that he won is unsubstantiated considering.
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Also, Deidara had the plot-related ability to counter Sharingan genjutsu due to fighting Itachi. He even thanks him for it. It's biased to say that Doton < Raiton is a plot advantage when Deidara had a similar advantage.
I always thought that Sasuke was able to summon Manda using Orochimaru's chakra. It's an assumption and I could be wrong but that's what I thought of it, personally.
Bottom line, Sasuke won because he was better than Deidara.
How can anybody get more plot shield then the main character ? If naruto dies show is over . Doesnt matter how strong the enemy or how bad the situation Naruto will prevail . The show can continue without sasuke . Naruto has the ultimate MAIN CHARACTER PLOT SHIELD !! why compare ?
Your smart man, you debunked all the plotshield arguments for Naruto but failed to do so for Sasuke. Most of the readers will vote for Sasuke simply because of the way you wrote this.
Oh and on top of that, you count the ma and pa incident als a plot against Naruto. But Obito hiding boms for Deidera is not a plot against Sasuke? LOL
Thanks, for the suggestions, but it was late by the time I got to Sasuke, and I didn't think there were any significant plot shields for Deidera or Sasuke other than what I stated because of it.
In this case I'm going with Sasuke vs Deidara. There is just no way that he should have been able to summon Manda with what little chakra he had left. Like the OP points out Jiraiya who despite having large chakra reserves was unable to summon Gamabunta when he was drugged and yet Sasuke can summon Manda? It makes no sense.
