who didn't like civil war ?

Cfighter

Active member
Veteran
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
4,514
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Agreed with some of it. But how do you think Thanos could fit in a story revolving Cap and Bucky? The most they could have done is adding a small mid/post-credit scene which is relatively trivial if he would be properly introduced in subsequent films before the Infinity War
Again, spoilers below.

They didn't need to incorporate Thanos. Or even the infinity stones. What I meant by progressing the overall plot was to take any kind of risks. Kill characters, break the Avengers up for good. Make it so that by the end of this film, every film afterwards would drastically change in regards to the overarching plot. But this film did nothing in regards to progression, it just looped in a circle thus wasting our time.

Btw, +rep for reading. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Alfred Pennyworth

nefraiko

Active member
Regular
Joined
May 22, 2013
Messages
721
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Again, spoilers below.

They didn't need to incorporate Thanos. Or even the infinity stones. What I meant by progressing the overall plot was to take any kind of risks. Kill characters, break the Avengers up for good. Make it so that by the end of this film, every film afterwards would drastically change in regards to the overarching plot. But this film did nothing in regards to progression, it just looped in a circle thus wasting our time.

Btw, +rep for reading. :)
I also agree with you : the movie was epic when it comes to visual effects, the acting and all the technical stuff, nothing to say.

but the story and the lie they used to market the movie (civil war, it's going to be a war so be prepared for shit because nothing will ever be the same). that's a BIG lie, and also the spiderman character witch they screwed up monumentally imo
this really ruined it to me.

BUT I would still watch the movie and enjoy it, I just was really disappointed.

Oh and also, from a movie pov and not a comics pov, what did you think of vision ? ok so they introduce the perfect being in age of ultron, who goes hermit at the end of a movie and meditate about the truth ---> and guess what ? the civil war's vision reads in a book to cook (seriously ? the perfect computer ? the organic version of google ?) and makes miscalculations ?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cfighter

Cfighter

Active member
Veteran
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
4,514
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
I also agree with you : the movie was epic when it comes to visual effects, the acting and all the technical stuff, nothing to say.

but the story and the lie they used to market the movie (civil war, it's going to be a war so be prepared for shit because nothing will ever be the same). that's a BIG lie, and also the spiderman character witch they screwed up monumentally imo
this really ruined it to me.

BUT I would still watch the movie and enjoy it, I just was really disappointed.

Oh and also, from a movie pov and not a comics pov, what did you think of vision ? ok so they introduce the perfect being in age of ultron, who goes hermit at the end of a movie and meditate about the truth ---> and guess what ? the civil war's vision reads in a book to cook (seriously ? the perfect computer ? the organic version of google ?) and makes miscalculations ?
Honestly I didn't mind Vision, but that's only because I knew the second he showed up in Ultron that he was going to be nerfed in Civil War. He's essentially a god compared to the Avengers, so they wrote themselves into a wall just by bringing him into the movies to begin with. So unless they had him disappear like the Hull and Thor, I knew in Civil War he wasn't going to do much at all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: nefraiko

nefraiko

Active member
Regular
Joined
May 22, 2013
Messages
721
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Honestly I didn't mind Vision, but that's only because I knew the second he showed up in Ultron that he was going to be nerfed in Civil War. He's essentially a god compared to the Avengers, so they wrote themselves into a wall just by bringing him into the movies to begin with. So unless they had him disappear like the Hull and Thor, I knew in Civil War he wasn't going to do much at all.
yes you are right, they can make him do nothing but their are tons of ways in wich this skynet bro can do nothing : as the hermit he has become at the end of age of ultron I could have been perfectly ok if he just stood their "analyzing" and acting from time to time, raarely but he screwed up big time in the movie, that's not acceptable for his character imo.

I LOVE vision from age of ultron, and I LOVED how he analyzed the situation objectively when all the heroes were debating the matter around the table, the actor is amazing, I just love him. but the writers did fail on his character for what came after in the movie. imo.

thanks for the rep :D
 

Jinbei

Active member
Elite
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
8,952
Kin
5💸
Kumi
1,027💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
Having read the comics, I went in with really high expectations but the movie wasn't able to deliver that much for me. It was a fantastic movie nonetheless, it's just I found the comic storyline better and so many important factors were left out. ( I.e, Spidey's moral conflict, Superhuman Registration act vs Sokovia Accords, the AMAZING finale from the comics )

I don't know, if you haven't read the comics, this movie should be unbelievable in it's own right. However, after reading them, I felt the movie was only "very good", which is still great for a movie anyway. xD
 

paratise

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Feb 28, 2013
Messages
16,197
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
There are things that did not sit well with me:

-About the dude Zemo put upside down over that bucket, water was not even reaching his mouth, how did he get drowned?

-Why did not Romania signed the Sokovia deal? EU's borders do not work like rest of the World, a deal which heavily revolves around sovereignity of borders should be signed by all EU states not some of them.

-How did Tony Stark use a child fighter in a very dangerous battle, that is a pretty lawless and immoral thing to do, esp. considering his stance was against both of these things.

Imo the movie was entertaining, i do not think majority of audience goes MCU movies for depth nor comics can be adapted truly accurately, even this movie was very long (2.5 hours). MCU builds its own universe in a different medium than comics do.

Overall, i enjoyed it, effects and acting jobs were very good, i loved introduction of Black Panther, humor was decent; the seriousness of supernatural adult men and women fighting in shiny/colorful tights can not go so far afterall. Fights were orchestrated great as well, i esp. liked Cap & Bucky vs Iron Man, airport fight and anything with Black Widow & T'challa.
 

Ansatsuken

Active member
Supreme
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
27,345
Kin
4,798💸
Kumi
649💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
There are things that did not sit well with me:

-About the dude Zemo put upside down over that bucket, water was not even reaching his mouth, how did he get drowned?

-Why did not Romania signed the Sokovia deal? EU's borders do not work like rest of the World, a deal which heavily revolves around sovereignity of borders should be signed by all EU states not some of them.

-How did Tony Stark use a child fighter in a very dangerous battle, that is a pretty lawless and immoral thing to do, esp. considering his stance was against both of these things.

Imo the movie was entertaining, i do not think majority of audience goes MCU movies for depth nor comics can be adapted truly accurately, even this movie was very long (2.5 hours). MCU builds its own universe in a different medium than comics do.

Overall, i enjoyed it, effects and acting jobs were very good, i loved introduction of Black Panther, humor was decent; the seriousness of supernatural adult men and women fighting in shiny/colorful tights can not go so far afterall. Fights were orchestrated great as well, i esp. liked Cap & Bucky vs Iron Man, airport fight and anything with Black Widow & T'challa.
Who was the child fighter there?
 

Ansatsuken

Active member
Supreme
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
27,345
Kin
4,798💸
Kumi
649💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
I wouldn't say that I didn't like the movie, but I absolutely had more things that I disliked than I liked. I am not a fanboy of one thing or the other. I am a fan of movies, and quality storytelling. I could easily praise this movie for this or that, like so many other people have done already - but I destroyed Batman v Superman, so its only fair to me that I treat this film as any other. Spoilers down below for those who haven't seen the movie. Also, I wrote a lot. So be prepared for a LOT of writing.

First of all I need to get a few things straight: I don't read comics but I have a general understanding of certain storylines and characters. I sincerely believe that Marvel hasn't released a "bad" movie yet - just movies that are worse than the others. And finally what I did like about this movie, I LOVED. Anyway, you asked why some people do not like it, so I will only explain why I don't like it and not the few bits that I do.

So let's start with the "Civil War" part of the movie thats called, you know, Civil War. I am completely aware of things that happen behind the scenes of these movies - things that most movie goers, and even comic lovers aren't. I know that Marvel sold off characters in the past and have been trying to require them, which is why certain characters aren't in their movies - meaning I know how Spiderman came into this movie and why he had a very small, cameo-like role. I know HOW and WHY the Civil War storyline was integrated into this film, and I understand that it was intended, and IS a Captain America movie first and a Civil War movie second. However, the Civil War aspect of this movie was completely tacked on, went nowhere, and ultimately only really served to lengthen the runtime because it added virtually nothing to the actual story being told here. The Airport fight was VERY fun, but you could take it out of the movie and noting would change. At all.

Speaking of the actual story being told, lets talk about the real story here - being the Captain America events. Namely the Villain. Let's talk about the villain. This villain, Zemo, was a complete and utter middle finger to fans of these movies on all fronts. I UNDERSTAND his character motives; I got where he was coming from, his logic was sound, but everything else about him was a waste of time and completely ludicrous. This is a normal man who managed to outwit the Avengers. Sure, this normal man had special training but at the end of the day he was just an average joe looking for some vengeance. You serious right now? The Avengers are completely torn apart by the workings of a single man? Oh wait, I'm sorry. They weren't torn apart by a man - they were torn apart by each other. Again.

That brings me to my next topic point: this is the third F*cking movie where the main goal/plan of the villain is to have the Avengers fight each other. It was a gimmick that worked in the Avengers because that was the whole premise of the movie. But in Age of Ultron, what was Ultron's first plan of attack? Scarlet Witch, have them fight each other. I rolled my eyes then, and thankfully it didn't work out that way, but I sure as shit rolled my eyes when we saw this same old cop-out for the THIRD time. Because that's what this is at this point - from a story telling perspective, this is a cop-out. It's lazy. Don't be surprised if in Infinity War everyone starts fighting each other again.

Look at that, yet another segway! Infinity War. This is the event we have been building towards since the Avengers. Its unknown if this was Marvel's end-game from the start, but it sure was as soon as they released the Avengers. We have had 12 stellar movies before Civil War. A dozen films setting up the world we've come to know. Now its time to go bolder, to start exploring more and more, to really start introducing the larger storyline ahead for our heroes. Too bad Civil War does NOTHING ABOUT THIS. This is actually my BIGGEST issue with Civil War - its not necessarily the film itself. Despite everything you just read, I could have easily overlooked EVERYTHING if Civil War did anything to address the larger hand at play. Look, if we just wanted film after film of superhero films with an occasional team up then thats fine. But that is not what Marvel set out to do - that is not what we were promised and that is NOT what we have gotten in the past. What Marvel set out to do was nothing new, but it certainly was ambitious and it certainly paid off - Marvel set out to create a Cinematic Universe. You may have heard this term, but what does it actually mean? Well in theory, it essentially means being able to create multiple films that all interconnect which allows the studio to tell a much longer, larger story throughout individual components. Very similar to a TV show, which has an overarching plot told over the course of seasons at a time. Same concept, just in film - we were promised the build up to Infinity War, which understandably takes time to set up; you need to introduce the entire universe of characters, make us care about everyone, introduce us to the stones, etc. Civil War is the THIRTEENTH FILM. Thirteen. Infinity war is coming in TWO YEARS! We will be getting NINE MOVIES crammed into those two very short years, and Civil War still is acting like its own isolated film. You could watch Civil War first out of the entire film slate and still be able to keep up with things. We should NOT be doing this at this stage, every film from here on out SHOULD be all connected and really be pushing the Infinity War story line. Two years left, and we haven't truly been introduced to Thanos or any of his shenanigans. And yes, I know that Thor 3 and Guardians of the Galaxy 2 will likely have a hand in that, but Civil War should have also taken bolder steps to really pushing the story forward.

Which brings me to my final ranting topic point: the lack of balls this movie had. Now I already kind of sort of touched upon this in the rant I just did above, but what equally pisses me off about this film is the lack of risks it took. This is a very, VERY easy going film, that touches upon some subject matter that almost DEMANDED for some serious change. By the end of this movie, NOTHING had changed from the beginning. Rhodes was crippled, but Tony gave him a fancy new robot-leg thingy, kinda similar actually to Batman in The Dark Knight Rises, so he'll be coming back in some way. Look, I could go off on a whole other essay analyzing the strong character motives and character story arcs this film told; specifically the final fight between Tony, Steve and Bucky. But just to keep it short, that fight was the true highlight of the film. The Airport fight was fun, but it had zero content underneath it. The Tony v Cap fight, now that was truly amazing because of everything that fight stood for, and why they were fighting to begin with. And honestly, the fact that no one died during that fight was the biggest waste of potential any of these films have EVER had - and thats saying a lot considering how disappointed I was in Age of Ultron. Moving beyond that one fight (as again, I could write for days on that fight), by the end of the film Tony is bruised up, Bucky puts himself on ice (which is another aspect of this film wasting your time), the Avengers are all in prison but its ok because Steve busts them all out and sends Tony a letter saying if he ever needs them they got his back. Everything tied up in one nice little bow. Disappointed isn't strong enough of a word to describe how I felt at the end of the movie.

This is more or less how I feel about the movie in regards to why I strongly disliked it. For anyone who actually read all that, you deserve to be given rep points so let me know and I'll happily rep you for reading my opinion. And again, I feel I should reiterate: I ranted for days above, but what I liked about the film (yes, believe it or not I did actually enjoy a lot of this film) I LOVED. Namely, everything on a technical level of this film (the acting, the writing, the directing, the cinematography, the choreography, etc) was damn near flawless. Its just the story, the story telling, and how they didn't take any risks that gets me so frustrated with this film.
I read all your points and can agree with it.

Actually the plot of this Civil War is not strong enough and also they seem to forgot about Infinity War build up.

The killing of Tony's parents look like an asspull to me for the last feud in movie to happen bcus as what I remember(in Iron Man movies) Tony never gave us a glimpse on how his parents die.

I said about Vision get a wrong treatment in other thread and I'm glad other people saw it.


Spiderman.
I get the idea but want to be sure, lol

And what is wrong with it as Spiderman not just a normal teenager.

He fight with this moto inside his head "With great power comes great responsibility"
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Cfighter

Uzumaki Death god

Active member
Regular
Joined
Oct 21, 2015
Messages
1,107
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
guys I don't mind it to not follow the comics story I just want them at least to respect the traits of the characters, those traits that made us like the heroes in the first place so they had to make a movie about it. as much as the previous spiderman's movies could screw up at sometimes they still respected how the person of spiderman is.

the movie doesn't have to follow the comics 100% that's for sure I agree ! but it has to keep logical and be judged on it's own story that's what I did.

first : not enough build up for a civil war.
second : incoherences and asspulls
third : wrong scenario choices, misuse of comics' raw story material

that's my opinion you can disagree but don't hate please :p
How is it an asspull if that was set up in literally the opening scenes of the movie?
 

Chakra Wizard

Active member
Elite
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Messages
8,958
Kin
14💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
I wouldn't say that I didn't like the movie, but I absolutely had more things that I disliked than I liked. I am not a fanboy of one thing or the other. I am a fan of movies, and quality storytelling. I could easily praise this movie for this or that, like so many other people have done already - but I destroyed Batman v Superman, so its only fair to me that I treat this film as any other. Spoilers down below for those who haven't seen the movie. Also, I wrote a lot. So be prepared for a LOT of writing.

First of all I need to get a few things straight: I don't read comics but I have a general understanding of certain storylines and characters. I sincerely believe that Marvel hasn't released a "bad" movie yet - just movies that are worse than the others. And finally what I did like about this movie, I LOVED. Anyway, you asked why some people do not like it, so I will only explain why I don't like it and not the few bits that I do.

So let's start with the "Civil War" part of the movie thats called, you know, Civil War. I am completely aware of things that happen behind the scenes of these movies - things that most movie goers, and even comic lovers aren't. I know that Marvel sold off characters in the past and have been trying to require them, which is why certain characters aren't in their movies - meaning I know how Spiderman came into this movie and why he had a very small, cameo-like role. I know HOW and WHY the Civil War storyline was integrated into this film, and I understand that it was intended, and IS a Captain America movie first and a Civil War movie second. However, the Civil War aspect of this movie was completely tacked on, went nowhere, and ultimately only really served to lengthen the runtime because it added virtually nothing to the actual story being told here. The Airport fight was VERY fun, but you could take it out of the movie and noting would change. At all.

Speaking of the actual story being told, lets talk about the real story here - being the Captain America events. Namely the Villain. Let's talk about the villain. This villain, Zemo, was a complete and utter middle finger to fans of these movies on all fronts. I UNDERSTAND his character motives; I got where he was coming from, his logic was sound, but everything else about him was a waste of time and completely ludicrous. This is a normal man who managed to outwit the Avengers. Sure, this normal man had special training but at the end of the day he was just an average joe looking for some vengeance. You serious right now? The Avengers are completely torn apart by the workings of a single man? Oh wait, I'm sorry. They weren't torn apart by a man - they were torn apart by each other. Again.

That brings me to my next topic point: this is the third F*cking movie where the main goal/plan of the villain is to have the Avengers fight each other. It was a gimmick that worked in the Avengers because that was the whole premise of the movie. But in Age of Ultron, what was Ultron's first plan of attack? Scarlet Witch, have them fight each other. I rolled my eyes then, and thankfully it didn't work out that way, but I sure as shit rolled my eyes when we saw this same old cop-out for the THIRD time. Because that's what this is at this point - from a story telling perspective, this is a cop-out. It's lazy. Don't be surprised if in Infinity War everyone starts fighting each other again.

Look at that, yet another segway! Infinity War. This is the event we have been building towards since the Avengers. Its unknown if this was Marvel's end-game from the start, but it sure was as soon as they released the Avengers. We have had 12 stellar movies before Civil War. A dozen films setting up the world we've come to know. Now its time to go bolder, to start exploring more and more, to really start introducing the larger storyline ahead for our heroes. Too bad Civil War does NOTHING ABOUT THIS. This is actually my BIGGEST issue with Civil War - its not necessarily the film itself. Despite everything you just read, I could have easily overlooked EVERYTHING if Civil War did anything to address the larger hand at play. Look, if we just wanted film after film of superhero films with an occasional team up then thats fine. But that is not what Marvel set out to do - that is not what we were promised and that is NOT what we have gotten in the past. What Marvel set out to do was nothing new, but it certainly was ambitious and it certainly paid off - Marvel set out to create a Cinematic Universe. You may have heard this term, but what does it actually mean? Well in theory, it essentially means being able to create multiple films that all interconnect which allows the studio to tell a much longer, larger story throughout individual components. Very similar to a TV show, which has an overarching plot told over the course of seasons at a time. Same concept, just in film - we were promised the build up to Infinity War, which understandably takes time to set up; you need to introduce the entire universe of characters, make us care about everyone, introduce us to the stones, etc. Civil War is the THIRTEENTH FILM. Thirteen. Infinity war is coming in TWO YEARS! We will be getting NINE MOVIES crammed into those two very short years, and Civil War still is acting like its own isolated film. You could watch Civil War first out of the entire film slate and still be able to keep up with things. We should NOT be doing this at this stage, every film from here on out SHOULD be all connected and really be pushing the Infinity War story line. Two years left, and we haven't truly been introduced to Thanos or any of his shenanigans. And yes, I know that Thor 3 and Guardians of the Galaxy 2 will likely have a hand in that, but Civil War should have also taken bolder steps to really pushing the story forward.

Which brings me to my final ranting topic point: the lack of balls this movie had. Now I already kind of sort of touched upon this in the rant I just did above, but what equally pisses me off about this film is the lack of risks it took. This is a very, VERY easy going film, that touches upon some subject matter that almost DEMANDED for some serious change. By the end of this movie, NOTHING had changed from the beginning. Rhodes was crippled, but Tony gave him a fancy new robot-leg thingy, kinda similar actually to Batman in The Dark Knight Rises, so he'll be coming back in some way. Look, I could go off on a whole other essay analyzing the strong character motives and character story arcs this film told; specifically the final fight between Tony, Steve and Bucky. But just to keep it short, that fight was the true highlight of the film. The Airport fight was fun, but it had zero content underneath it. The Tony v Cap fight, now that was truly amazing because of everything that fight stood for, and why they were fighting to begin with. And honestly, the fact that no one died during that fight was the biggest waste of potential any of these films have EVER had - and thats saying a lot considering how disappointed I was in Age of Ultron. Moving beyond that one fight (as again, I could write for days on that fight), by the end of the film Tony is bruised up, Bucky puts himself on ice (which is another aspect of this film wasting your time), the Avengers are all in prison but its ok because Steve busts them all out and sends Tony a letter saying if he ever needs them they got his back. Everything tied up in one nice little bow. Disappointed isn't strong enough of a word to describe how I felt at the end of the movie.

This is more or less how I feel about the movie in regards to why I strongly disliked it. For anyone who actually read all that, you deserve to be given rep points so let me know and I'll happily rep you for reading my opinion. And again, I feel I should reiterate: I ranted for days above, but what I liked about the film (yes, believe it or not I did actually enjoy a lot of this film) I LOVED. Namely, everything on a technical level of this film (the acting, the writing, the directing, the cinematography, the choreography, etc) was damn near flawless. Its just the story, the story telling, and how they didn't take any risks that gets me so frustrated with this film.
To each their own, man, but I just have to disagree with a lot of this. For one, when have any of the films that didn't involve Thor or Guardians of the Galaxy contributed to the buildup to Thanos' grand entrance and the Infinity War, even if we are in Phase Three? He has to be solar systems, if not galaxies away, so his vow at the end of Ultron is at least a few movies away from being important (at least until Guardians 2). Besides, there are two more infinity stones left, so he could easily be searching for those first before he comes into play for real.

Also, how is this film not a game-changer even beyond that reasoning? The Avengers are absolutely divided, even if they aren't on totally bad terms. Half of them are on the run, and whether it was voiced in the film's ending or not, the Accords didn't just go away after Cap and Widow and the others went AWOL, so Tony and Vision and Rhodey (if he's still active at this point) are still on government orders until the Infinity War begins, at which point they either send them to fight or they're forced to do the same thing Cap did. Believe me, a lot has changed as far as the overall universe and dynamics go, and besides, as far as the big picture, the revelation that HYDRA was controlling S.H.I.E.L.D. could be said not to have a big lasting effect based on what your issue was (not to mention the Guardians are the only ones who even know Thanos exists besides Loki, so how could they have snuck him into the film in some way?). I also don't disagree that Zemo was just a tool in this film, but I had no issue with it personally. The guy's not dead, so he's probably got secrets, maybe even connections we don't know about yet. And on the note, revealing Bucky's state of the end of the film was by no means a waste of time, firstly because it was a mid-credit scene (so how could it logically waste our time) and secondly because it also gave us a first glance at Wakanda and where T'Challa's mindset will be when his movie comes around (I personally don't doubt for a second Cap's worries won't come true).

Now the part I really did have trouble digesting was the lack of risks you said the film had. First of all, as I said, the team isn't exactly on bad terms, but they're certainly divided, so a lot of stuff will have to be fixed by the Infinity War does start. And why SHOULD anyone have to die in this movie to begin with? Did Cap die in the comics at the end? Yes, but that Civil War was an enormous story arc. This is one big event in an ongoing storyline leading up (as you said) to the war with Thanos. No one should be dying just yet because everyone currently in play has a potential part in coming events. When the war starts, I don't mind for a second if key players start dying (I personally think it'll be Cap since he's the man out of his own time and all, not to mention the one with the most martyr-esque qualities) but this isn't the time or place for it, man. Like you said, we got nine movies left, so the buildup is still...well, building up.


Anyway, that's my two cents. I (not really) anxiously await my +rep. xd
 
Top