Whenever Sakura Tries To Help...

Melanee

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Because of her incompetence.

While I am armed in the service, I am responsible for anything my assigned weapon kills. I am armed, it is my weapon. If someone else were to use my weapon to kill someone - I would be put on trial by a court martial. If another individual (other than myself) were to be seen holding that weapon by the 'right' (or wrong, in my case) officials - it could end my career.

There are some circumstances/conditions where this concept is not actively enforced - but you're still responsible for your weapon.

Trying to argue that it was "Sasuke who poisoned him" is implying that it was Sasuke who poisoned the kunai and it was his intention to poison Naruto.

It was sort of Naruto's fault for getting hit, but unintentionally Sakura's fault for putting herself in danger. However, I have a feeling Kishimoto was trying to use humor and failed. Sakura wanted to do this solo for a reason so Naruto (though he did save her life) actually got in the way. Yes, she failed to go through with killing him, but the only life to lose would have been her own. She did not expect anyone to interfere.

If she was with a team and it happened, then I agree, but she planned to kill hi alone or she would not have incapacitated the others.

That's obviously your opinion, not the opinion of many others.

That's all NB haters use lately. I have asked over and over for someone to give me a good reason and they always say Sasuke this, weak that, Hinata took her man (Naruto) etc... it's what I see and read, not what I think.
 

Fanta

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Because of her incompetence.

While I am armed in the service, I am responsible for anything my assigned weapon kills. I am armed, it is my weapon. If someone else were to use my weapon to kill someone - I would be put on trial by a court martial. If another individual (other than myself) were to be seen holding that weapon by the 'right' (or wrong, in my case) officials - it could end my career.

There are some circumstances/conditions where this concept is not actively enforced - but you're still responsible for your weapon.

Trying to argue that it was "Sasuke who poisoned him" is implying that it was Sasuke who poisoned the kunai and it was her intention to poison Naruto.

Trying to argue that it was "Sakura who poisoned him" is implying that it was Sakura who poisoned the kunai and it was her intention to poison Naruto.

Just contradicted your own argument.
 

Aim64C

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Yeah, Kishi already said in Jump Festa 2013 he is going to be developing Sakura pretty soon. Gonna be funny to see what the haters come up with when she gets her development.

He said the same thing back in 2012. The "Kishi is going to develop Sakura" talk and quote has been floating around for well over a year.

The problem is that he can't develop her character as a main character. She has no plot significance - which makes working her character development into the plot very, very difficult for Kishimoto (who is constrained by what he can put into panels... though, he's not the greatest author, in terms of plot, to begin with). If he were writing a book series, where pages (and dialogue/events) are cheap, it would be a different story. A lot of the side characters would be developed much like many great works of fan-fiction have elaborated upon the side characters (such as: "Destiny is a Hazy Thing" or other 500K+ word novelizations).

Sakura's character was stuck in as a compromise for the producers who wanted a tsundere aspect to Naruto. Which is why her character has always been kind of 'there' and poorly developed in comparison to many other characters. Sai is, likely, similar to the other character he originally wanted alongside Naruto and Sasuke for Team 7 (judging from the pilot series of Naruto, where a painter was one of the first friends Naruto made; the personal background of the painter in the pilot series and Sai are considerably similar, though Sai's is more 'ninja-fied').

She's simply never going to get the significant development people are looking for in her character. Kishimoto is not the best author, to begin with, and he's got something of a mental block when it comes to rendering her character (as I said, likely because she was inserted at the insistence of publishers).

Which is all kind of sad - because her character has much more potential than it has really been allowed to achieve.
 

Fanta

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He said the same thing back in 2012. The "Kishi is going to develop Sakura" talk and quote has been floating around for well over a year.

The problem is that he can't develop her character as a main character. She has no plot significance - which makes working her character development into the plot very, very difficult for Kishimoto (who is constrained by what he can put into panels... though, he's not the greatest author, in terms of plot, to begin with). If he were writing a book series, where pages (and dialogue/events) are cheap, it would be a different story. A lot of the side characters would be developed much like many great works of fan-fiction have elaborated upon the side characters (such as: "Destiny is a Hazy Thing" or other 500K+ word novelizations).

Sakura's character was stuck in as a compromise for the producers who wanted a tsundere aspect to Naruto. Which is why her character has always been kind of 'there' and poorly developed in comparison to many other characters. Sai is, likely, similar to the other character he originally wanted alongside Naruto and Sasuke for Team 7 (judging from the pilot series of Naruto, where a painter was one of the first friends Naruto made; the personal background of the painter in the pilot series and Sai are considerably similar, though Sai's is more 'ninja-fied').

She's simply never going to get the significant development people are looking for in her character. Kishimoto is not the best author, to begin with, and he's got something of a mental block when it comes to rendering her character (as I said, likely because she was inserted at the insistence of publishers).

Which is all kind of sad - because her character has much more potential than it has really been allowed to achieve.

First of all Kishimoto said that he wanted to develop Kakashi first which he is doing now. Also, don't know if you've seen it but Chatte made a thread on potentional character development for Sakura in which she might somehow be related to Senju. You should check it out.
 

Aim64C

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Trying to argue that it was "Sakura who poisoned him" is implying that it was Sakura who poisoned the kunai and it was her intention to poison Naruto.

Just contradicted your own argument.

... You... don't really understand the concept of logic, do you?

Sakura -did- poison the kunai.

Sakura's -intent- was not to poison Naruto. However, her failure to follow through on her intent to poison Sasuke directly caused the events that led to Naruto being grazed by the Kunai that she lost control of and had poisoned.

Her actions were instrumental and necessary in the poisoning of Naruto.

She -knew- Sasuke would be there. She -knew- he was likely to kill each and every one of them if given the opportunity. She -knew- there were others with her that would be at risk if she failed.

If she were under my command - she'd have received a hell of an ass beating. What if Sasuke had incapacitated her and she was rendered unconscious? Surely - if she's planning to poison someone who trained under a snake-loving scientist... she'd use some pretty potent stuff. Who would be curing people if the weapon she'd coated in this stuff went out of control?

There were numerous gaps in her decision making that she is personally responsible and accountable for. The only reason I wouldn't strip her of her weapon qualifications and demote her back to conception is because I know she already knows better and merely needs to be ... motivated ... to be more responsible. She's a valuable asset who decided to act stupid - not a stupid person given a weapon.
 

Melanee

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... You... don't really understand the concept of logic, do you?

Sakura -did- poison the kunai.

Sakura's -intent- was not to poison Naruto. However, her failure to follow through on her intent to poison Sasuke directly caused the events that led to Naruto being grazed by the Kunai that she lost control of and had poisoned.

Her actions were instrumental and necessary in the poisoning of Naruto.

She -knew- Sasuke would be there. She -knew- he was likely to kill each and every one of them if given the opportunity. She -knew- there were others with her that would be at risk if she failed.

If she were under my command - she'd have received a hell of an ass beating. What if Sasuke had incapacitated her and she was rendered unconscious? Surely - if she's planning to poison someone who trained under a snake-loving scientist... she'd use some pretty potent stuff. Who would be curing people if the weapon she'd coated in this stuff went out of control?

There were numerous gaps in her decision making that she is personally responsible and accountable for. The only reason I wouldn't strip her of her weapon qualifications and demote her back to conception is because I know she already knows better and merely needs to be ... motivated ... to be more responsible. She's a valuable asset who decided to act stupid - not a stupid person given a weapon.

When you think about it, rules are rather lax in Naruto. They all get away with stuff that would be seriously punishable if it happened in our world.
 

Shura

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she got 1 panel this entire chapter. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. although it's one too many if you ask me.

I agree, I can't take much more of her than one panel. And even that is too much. U_U
 

Aim64C

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When you think about it, rules are rather lax in Naruto. They all get away with stuff that would be seriously punishable if it happened in our world.

People get away with it all the time in the real world, too.

It doesn't change the fact that it's their responsibility.

Edit:

Actually - a huge part of leadership is -not- getting your subordinates in trouble with the higher rungs of authority unless unavoidable or necessary. -You- kick their ass in gear and keep infractions off of their permanent record when possible (and not irresponsible on your part).

You'll find few people in the military with more than four years of service who have not 'gotten away' with a career ending blunder. Someone kept the bullshit from hitting the brass (maybe even took some of the heat for the blunder) and knocked some sense into whoever made the mistake.

Generally, if people are getting in serious trouble in the military... either their leadership sucks, or the person is a shit bag that no one wants to keep around (and they'll run the paperwork train up his/her ass).
 
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Melanee

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People get away with it all the time in the real world, too.

It doesn't change the fact that it's their responsibility.

Really sad but true... though I would hope we are a bit stricter than that. I feel if our world had stricter rules it would be a better place. I feel we get away with a lot but if we try to become harsher, people will simply rebel.

I agree even as a Sakura fan and I see your point. I'm not sure if Kishimoto was aware of it or thought he was making her look good in readers eyes. I didn't think much of her though he heart was in the right place. She is supposed to be logical, one of the smartest and she really went and dropped her IQ level.
 

paratise

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Because of her incompetence.

While I am armed in the service, I am responsible for anything my assigned weapon kills. I am armed, it is my weapon. If someone else were to use my weapon to kill someone - I would be put on trial by a court martial. If another individual (other than myself) were to be seen holding that weapon by the 'right' (or wrong, in my case) officials - it could end my career.

There are some circumstances/conditions where this concept is not actively enforced - but you're still responsible for your weapon.

Trying to argue that it was "Sasuke who poisoned him" is implying that it was Sasuke who poisoned the kunai and it was his intention to poison Naruto.
Well...Narutoverse does not work with the laws of our countries nor it is not 100% parallels with our army systems; so consequences of some actions might differ; as well as the ethic and view on those said actions.
 

Aim64C

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Really sad but true... though I would hope we are a bit stricter than that. I feel if our world had stricter rules it would be a better place. I feel we get away with a lot but if we try to become harsher, people will simply rebel.

If you revisit my edit to my post - you'll see a little more about this.

Stricter rules don't necessarily improve things. They usually only serve to make micro-politics worse. I've been under a few different commands - and each one has its own political climate. In the aviation communities, I noticed a lot of 'tribal warfare' between the different shops that service the aircraft (warfare is a bit extreme... but rivalry with attempts to exploit each others' personnel is more accurate). In security - it has been a lot of dog-eat-dog; make yourself look good by reporting on the errors of others. In logistics, it was like a capitalist commune of sorts... individual 'political' goals with varying overlaps within the shop.

When you make things more strict - you give people more methods to exploit the political sitution. The military is -very- strict on cases of rape and sexual assault (and since everyone is briefed routinely on the rules - those are often exploited as they heavily favor the allged victim) - and the integration of women into many communities they have long been denied entry to has had some rather unintended consequences. Females will leverage rape/assault against males... and some females are wrongly surrounded by rumors that she has utilized such strategies in the past (often groups of males enacting a sort of 'defense' against those strategies).

That's not to agree or disagree with women being there - just that being very strict on the rules and introducing new political machinations has an affect that is not always what one would expect.

It's the same in laws and governments. Seat-belt laws in my state are mostly used to generate additional fines and revenue (in fact, the way the law is written, a stop cannot be made for failure to wear a seat-belt... it can -only- be in connection with a different infraction). Small-town cops will nail out-of-state drivers (your plate identifies you) for going even slightly over the speed limit. You're not going to drive back to contest your fine - it's cheaper to pay whatever it was and be done.

When police do the 'checkpoints' along the highway to look for drunk drivers - they may net 2 or 3 over the course of a 6-hour operation. They'll rack up 30 head-light/tail-light infractions, 15 seat-belt, 25 turn-signal, etc - all of which are fines that generate revenue.

People, generally, don't act and live based on all of the laws they are subject to. Strict rules/laws tend to only give more opportunities for those who have time to read through all the damned things to exploit the rest of the population.

I agree even as a Sakura fan and I see your point. I'm not sure if Kishimoto was aware of it or thought he was making her look good in readers eyes. I didn't think much of her though he heart was in the right place. She is supposed to be logical, one of the smartest and she really went and dropped her IQ level.

Sakura is a difficult character for me. In principle - she's got a lot of potential and can be a great character (even if she's not someone I see developing a romance with Naruto). And I can't tell if Kishimoto just has no idea what he's doing when he writes her character... or if she's supposed to be the Naruto equivalent of Krillin.
 

Fanta

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... You... don't really understand the concept of logic, do you?

Sakura -did- poison the kunai.

Sakura's -intent- was not to poison Naruto. However, her failure to follow through on her intent to poison Sasuke directly caused the events that led to Naruto being grazed by the Kunai that she lost control of and had poisoned.

Her actions were instrumental and necessary in the poisoning of Naruto.

She -knew- Sasuke would be there. She -knew- he was likely to kill each and every one of them if given the opportunity. She -knew- there were others with her that would be at risk if she failed.

If she were under my command - she'd have received a hell of an ass beating. What if Sasuke had incapacitated her and she was rendered unconscious? Surely - if she's planning to poison someone who trained under a snake-loving scientist... she'd use some pretty potent stuff. Who would be curing people if the weapon she'd coated in this stuff went out of control?

There were numerous gaps in her decision making that she is personally responsible and accountable for. The only reason I wouldn't strip her of her weapon qualifications and demote her back to conception is because I know she already knows better and merely needs to be ... motivated ... to be more responsible. She's a valuable asset who decided to act stupid - not a stupid person given a weapon.

If your trying to say it was partially her fault then I agree with you but Sakura didn't poison him by her hand.

Also you got to consider than she thought nobody else was there but her and Sasuke, that's why she gassed everyone and confessed to Naruto so they wouldn't come.
 
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