What we forget or not understand..

[KingHashirama]

READ WITHOUT FANBOYISM OR HATRED!!!!​

UNNAMED NINJA/ not shown​

This includes me also, and i tend to do this often to. See we get this mentality that the people who have been shown on screen are the strongest people. For example, the Akatsuki or people from other villages are the strongest people. And then we tend to compare them to legends like Madara/Hashirama/Tobirama/Hiruzen and etc. But in reality. There have been many stronger people in the Naruto-verse than the Akatsuki. I mean hell Kakuzu wasn't even a big shot back in the days.. rofl. But fans want to put someone like him on that Hokage level sometimes.


There have been many many strong shinobi who haven't gotten screen time. In Hashirama's era, do people really believe Tobirama and Madara were the only stronger people besides them? . Hellooo.. the other freaking Kages..

Also,
- Sasuke Sarutobi

- unnamed Kages

- Sakumo

- So on.


Now why do i think this is important? because before you guys start to claim so and so ninja is better than so and so.. you need to look at their status in the shinobi world and where they stand, not simply look at their powers.

Generation skill gap:
​

I mean hell lets just look at the skill difference between Sasuke and Madara.. Madara is on a whole another level compared to Sasuke when it comes to Base skills. See people want to deny that the previous generation characters are stronger than the younger generations, because their favorites are part of the younger. So, the fans will tend to give all these scans, that are made for the younger generation's hype and so on. But in reality, the younger generations are the weakest generations.


FOR EXAMPLE : HOKAGES

Let me just use Minato. Remember how the fans sometimes claim the third hokage was afraid of Minato's coffin the most, and that he was the more dangerous one?... Yea well its not true.

Spoiler

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Him saying " of all the people, for him to summon those 2".. Easily puts Nidaime and Shodaime above any other konoha ninja we know of (Madara isn't considered a Konoha ninja).<<<< Now that was Hiruzen comparing them to the past. (Hiruzen fans or people who want to counter this.. don't bring up the whole "Hiruzen then told them he will defeat them"... cause i really have no care for that, seeing as he died from them.)


The chakra power gap/skills gap:

- Chakra power:

Spoiler

Hiruzen fully enraged, managed to put a small crack on the roof.

Spoiler

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Tobirama cracks a whole wall with just patting it...

Spoiler

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Hashirama cracks a whole room but just standing their and raising the chakra to only a certain extent..

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Minato and Tsunade.. ain't even close. (sorry to the minato fans.. but especially Minato) .. Again showing how the power gets weaker along the generations.

- Skills (something most of you will rant on I promise this)

Spoiler

Generation wise not Hokage title wise:

- Hashirama, God of shinobi/Ultimate Shinobi/Tons of scrolls/Master in all shinobi aspects/ Medical ninjutsu... basically the perfect package.

- Tobirama, Scientist/Master in shinobi aspects/ Wide range of jutsu... again a good all rounder ninja.

- Hiruzen, masters all shinobi aspects/ just weaker in power.. but still a good all rounder ninja.

- Tsunade, Master in Taijutsu/Scientist/ Medical ninjutsu specialist

- Minato, advanced in seals/specialist in blitz style fighting..


Skills wise and etc Minato is the weakest (Edo Minato I really have 0 relevance for). See most of you will rant on Tsunade being weaker than Minato, however Sanin are more legendary than the Konoha's yellow flash. Its not really my fault.. but just a manga fact. See when people judge Tsunade they will judge her on her ability to fight, but we completely forget she is the best poison/elixer maker in the manga, and the more respected one here.. I really don't care if Minato can beat Tsunade low-diff or "GG" her or anything else you guys want to say.. I simply care for which one has better skills.

Purpose:​

I simply wanted to say that we tend to forget these things when we judge characters. I'm not telling you to follow them, or anything. But simply putting it out there. If you wanna insult and etc that is your choice I really do not care. If you want me to elaborate on somethings feel free to ask.

Also, for the ones that will try to sound like they are cool by asking the question " So what is the point or what are we supposed to discuss".. everything written in the thread is up for discussing.

 

[Ganta]

Ok but you see we use logic and proof here. Anyone can say that the 1st mizukage was Op

 

[KingHashirama]

Ok but you see we use logic and proof here. Anyone can say that the 1st mizukage was Op

What logic? Logic of that only characters that are shown have strong powers and others don't? I hope you do realize Kishimoto can't just show every single character.. that is just unrealistic writing right there. In every shonen manga there are characters who are stronger than the ones that the story is around.. but they are never shown.

For example, in Bleach the first generation Gotei 13 > Current Gotei 13.. But we never met all of their members..

 

[Sir Blades]

Hiruzen God of Shinobi MANGA PHAX NUFF SAID.
But yeah i agree with what you say.

 

[- J AV -]

I honestly disagree that tsunade is better than minato,,,,,, in my opinion Minato is better than Tsunade,,

otherwise I am OK with what you said

 

[Ganta]

What logic? Logic of that only characters that are shown have strong powers and others don't? I hope you do realize Kishimoto can't just show every single character.. that is just unrealistic writing right there. In every shonen manga there are characters who are stronger than the ones that the story is around.. but they are never shown.

For example, in Bleach the first generation Gotei 13 > Current Gotei 13.. But we never met all of their members..

Ok but if there is now proof of their strenght how can debate? Just imagine things? This thread is illogical

 

[itachi4real]

I just read the rest and ur seriously underrating minato bruh

 

[KingHashirama]

Exactly....same goes for the sage. I bet u he prolly had people as strong or close to his strength back then. It shows u on blood prison with them talking about how the box was back when the sage was living

Well only problem with that is the fact that during Sage's time there really weren't shinobi. I mean chakra was unknown. See if you look at it from a bird's-point of view, you can see that Naruto world kind of "restarts" from the following points.

-Rikudou starts a whole different world

- People start getting weaker

- Hashirama restart of the shinobi world (his senju clan is hyped up as the strongest senju clan of all time.. so can't really go against that)
- People start getting weaker

- Naruto will restart the world

- People will start getting weaker.

Hiruzen God of Shinobi MANGA PHAX NUFF SAID.
But yeah i agree with what you say.

Rofl.

Ok but if there is now proof of their strenght how can debate? Just imagine things? This thread is illogical

Simply don't compare them to others.... I mean people want to use people like Sakumo in VS threads when they know they shouldn't. But according to the manga he is stronger than the Sanin... nothing has ever contradicted that. Hiruzen's hype has been contradicted and many other things..

Its basically going with the manga.. or using your own logic to manipulate the manga.

I just read the rest and ur seriously underrating minato bruh

Not really. I'm simply not going off of flashy things .

I mean I did say that fights do not matter to me.

 

[RikudoKami]

Minato has a far better and versatile arsenal than Tsunade. Minato deserves his hype, he alone can be the Key factor in taking down a God tier opponent, and his generation started the power slide from previous to now, excluding A and himself.

Naruto is only "powerful" because he is the title character. Sasuke is only powerful because of who aligned himself with throughout these last few years. Konoha would have made him a clown.

 

[KingHashirama]

Minato has a far better and versatile arsenal than Tsunade. Minato deserves his hype, he alone can be the Key factor in taking down a God tier opponent, and his generation started the power slide from previous to now, excluding A and himself.

Naruto is only "powerful" because he is the title character. Sasuke is only powerful because of who aligned himself with throughout these last few years. Konoha would have made him a clown.

- Hype that is irrelevant to the past generations = irrelevant when compared to the Hokages.

- He has immense fighting prowess I already stated that. But as I said he specialized in quick attacks.. not much when it comes to skills. Also, Hiruzen's generation started the powerslide. . Ay also seems weaker when compared to the other Raikages..

- MS 14 year old Obito is not god teir for gods-sake.. there are plenty of people who could beat him.

 

[Avinash012]

We barely know anything about those characters ,

U shouldn't say that Madara is better than Sasuke ,Sasuke is 17y old kid but what about Madara.?

If u have any proof to say that 17Y old Madara better/stronger than Sasuke then we talk about it.

Having chakra that can crack wall's won't make any difference in a battle,It is not something u can achive through skill/talent.
Hashirama blessed with strongest chakra & KKG in the series,He got healing abilities that dosen't mean that he is a madic.
When Hashirama/Tobirama born in a fodder clan & managed to surpass Orochimaru/Jiraya then we can talk about prv generations > current one's.

U have no proof to say that Tobirama,Tsunade and Sarutobi are more skilled than Minato.
From what we have seen Minato's fighting style mainly depends on FTG & one shoted movements but that dosen't mean that he is a fodder taijutsu user /can't fighting using weapons such as sword.
Do u really think Kishi would use same word more than once just for fun.?
Tsunade,Jiraya,Kakashi and 4th Rikage all these characters have been praising him for his skill as a shinobi do u think someone with one/jutsu's deserves all that hype.?
he did created his own FTG & improved it to next level,no need to mention about Rasengan but he recives no credit for it from ur side.
Also Minato is youngest of all Hokage's ,even if he is weaker/not on others level how can u compare someone who died during his 20's (B/W 21 and 25) with the people who reached their primes.?
Despite of born in a fosser family ,Minato achived more than what all of them did at that age if u ask me.
Minato born with most potential among the Hokages.

Also u have no proof to say that 3rd Rikage is stronger than 4th Rikage ,Ok let us say that 3rd > 4th .
3rd Rikage is arguably stronger than past 2 Rikage's which is clearly against ur argument.

3rd Kazekage is the strongest of them all once again it is against what u have mentioned in ur thread.

Sorry but u haven't accomplished anything from making this thread,only thing I can clearly see in ur thread is that ur trying so hard to degrade Minato.

 

[NinjaP00PandPEEJutsu]

If he wasn't edo'd for the war he wasn't strong.

Besides those who had a reason to be absent of course.

 

[Solo]

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#MangaFacts.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

The underlying minato hate. Iol

Ot: all of that is nice but it can't help you in a vs thread. I've said this to you plenty of times but you seem to never understand.

WITHOUT FEATS HYPE IS NOTHING.

It becomes simple hearsay. Tall tales passed around a fire to inspire the next generation.

Ex: iruka calling hiruzen God of shinobi.

 

[Wabbit]

Not sure if the thread was all about Tsunade is better than Minato or Power gap b/w generation.Past generations lived in era of wars and great shinobi wars.The clans like senju who have hyped as masters of thousands of jutsus and Uchihas and Uzumaki etc are all almost extinct.Now most of left are all who specialise in single jutsu like ino-shika-cho..

 

[-Sky-]

Well , the strongest Kazekage in the Sand Village's history was the 3rd , yet Sasori , an Akatsuki member , defeated him . Along with that , all of the Akatsuki members bar Hidan are at Sasori's level . Kakuzu failed in an assassination attempt of the First Hokage , but he was the God Damn First Hokage that's why . Hashirama is without a doubt the strongest Kage in NV history .

The 4th Mizukage was a mere puppet of the Akatsuki .

Also, Madara and Hashirama were considered the strongest of their generation , so assuming random kages are at their level is illogical . The only clan that could combat the Senju was the Uchiha, and vice versa . It was well known that other clans were far from their level .

Also , I'm not going to mark Minato off as weak just because he hasn't been shown to crack stuff . Power isn't everything .

One more thing : Kabuto only resurrected a few Kages . While those Kages resurrected were powerful , they were by no means anywhere close to Hashirama and Madara . Furthermore , Madara fodderized the Second Tschukage and a young Onoki .

The Akatsuki are incredibly powerful and are without a doubt Kage level . Also , the current generation is still very young, they are teenagers . The Sannin are past their 50's . Unfair comparison , yet Naruto and Sasuke have surpassed the Sannin. Another example is Chouji . He unlocked BM , the top tier power of his clan , at a mere 16 years old . Even his father had not yet accomplished that feat .

These off-screened characters just can't be held in any regard really .

 

[KingHashirama]

Well , the strongest Kazekage in the Sand Village's history was the 3rd , yet Sasori , an Akatsuki member , defeated him . Along with that , all of the Akatsuki members bar Hidan are at Sasori's level . Kakuzu failed in an assassination attempt of the First Hokage , but he was the God Damn First Hokage that's why . Hashirama is without a doubt the strongest Kage in NV history .

The 4th Mizukage was a mere puppet of the Akatsuki .

Also, Madara and Hashirama were considered the strongest of their generation , so assuming random kages are at their level is illogical . The only clan that could combat the Senju was the Uchiha, and vice versa . It was well known that other clans were far from their level .

Also , I'm not going to mark Minato off as weak just because he hasn't been shown to crack stuff . Power isn't everything .

One more thing : Kabuto only resurrected a few Kages . While those Kages resurrected were powerful , they were by no means anywhere close to Hashirama and Madara . Furthermore , Madara fodderized the Second Tschukage and a young Onoki .

The Akatsuki are incredibly powerful and are without a doubt Kage level . Also , the current generation is still very young, they are teenagers . The Sannin are past their 50's . Unfair comparison , yet Naruto and Sasuke have surpassed the Sannin. Another example is Chouji . He unlocked BM , the top tier power of his clan , at a mere 16 years old . Even his father had not yet accomplished that feat .

These off-screened characters just can't be held in any regard really .

The 3rd Kakekage is the same as the third Hokage, they have the hype from people who did not see the first generation of the Kages in battle. I mean sure you can deny that first generation Kages aren't the strongest.. maybe because your favorite kage lies in the other ones. But its really the same as First generation Gotei 13 being the strongest of all time in Bleach.

Also, Madara wasn't even considered strongest. It was only Hashirama. Because the way they talk about Hashirama in the past , hints that there was a big gap between Madara and Hashirama. Which is further proved by Madara needing part of Hashirama's powers to be the current OP Madara.

Oh see but here is the thing, Naruto's generation is the one that is going to set the standards for being the "strongest" for the genearations that will follow them, hence they surpassed the Sanin, But did Minato surpass Jiraiya? nope. Shikamaru = not the strongest Nara, Ino = not the strongest Yamanaka .. I can keep going.


Did anyone else surpass Madara? Nope

Did anyone else surpass Hashirama? nope

Did Kakashi surpass Sakumo? Nope

Did Minato surpass Jiraiya ? Nope

Did Shizune surpass Tsunade? Nope

Did Kabuto surpass Orochimaru? Nope

Did the Sanin surpass the Third? Nope

The list keeps going on and on and on

Not sure if the thread was all about Tsunade is better than Minato or Power gap b/w generation.Past generations lived in era of wars and great shinobi wars.The clans like senju who have hyped as masters of thousands of jutsus and Uchihas and Uzumaki etc are all almost extinct.Now most of left are all who specialise in single jutsu like ino-shika-cho..

Read the bold red words on top, if you had followed them you wouldn't have been biased enough to ask Tsunade and Minato crap. Because I can say that whenever I want.

The thread I said is about everything in the thread.

The underlying minato hate. Iol

Ot: all of that is nice but it can't help you in a vs thread. I've said this to you plenty of times but you seem to never understand.

WITHOUT FEATS HYPE IS NOTHING.

It becomes simple hearsay. Tall tales passed around a fire to inspire the next generation.

Ex: iruka calling hiruzen God of shinobi.

If you believe it is hate to state facts and look at things from a neutral point.. then keep believing I can't change your opinion on that.

Hype if not proven wrong means everything. Hence why its made. The word "hype" is used for people who's "hype" has been contradicted, like Hiruzen.

Iruka didn't called Hiruzen God of Shinobi.

We barely know anything about those characters ,

U shouldn't say that Madara is better than Sasuke ,Sasuke is 17y old kid but what about Madara.?

If u have any proof to say that 17Y old Madara better/stronger than Sasuke then we talk about it.

Having chakra that can crack wall's won't make any difference in a battle,It is not something u can achive through skill/talent.
Hashirama blessed with strongest chakra & KKG in the series,He got healing abilities that dosen't mean that he is a madic.
When Hashirama/Tobirama born in a fodder clan & managed to surpass Orochimaru/Jiraya then we can talk about prv generations > current one's.

U have no proof to say that Tobirama,Tsunade and Sarutobi are more skilled than Minato.
From what we have seen Minato's fighting style mainly depends on FTG & one shoted movements but that dosen't mean that he is a fodder taijutsu user /can't fighting using weapons such as sword.
Do u really think Kishi would use same word more than once just for fun.?
Tsunade,Jiraya,Kakashi and 4th Rikage all these characters have been praising him for his skill as a shinobi do u think someone with one/jutsu's deserves all that hype.?
he did created his own FTG & improved it to next level,no need to mention about Rasengan but he recives no credit for it from ur side.
Also Minato is youngest of all Hokage's ,even if he is weaker/not on others level how can u compare someone who died during his 20's (B/W 21 and 25) with the people who reached their primes.?
Despite of born in a fosser family ,Minato achived more than what all of them did at that age if u ask me.
Minato born with most potential among the Hokages.

Also u have no proof to say that 3rd Rikage is stronger than 4th Rikage ,Ok let us say that 3rd > 4th .
3rd Rikage is arguably stronger than past 2 Rikage's which is clearly against ur argument.

3rd Kazekage is the strongest of them all once again it is against what u have mentioned in ur thread.

Sorry but u haven't accomplished anything from making this thread,only thing I can clearly see in ur thread is that ur trying so hard to degrade Minato.

Funny that you want proof, but you can't show me proof to say Minato was more skilled. "Minato achieved more than what all of them did at that age"... uh he sure didn't become the strongest and the most feared man in the world. =]. He also, didn't create a new branch of shinobi ... What did he accomplish? Stopping a war with other's help?

"Minato born with most potential among the Hokages".. I see reading that Minato hype, even though the strongest Hokage is Hashirama by far. Wonder who was born with the most potential. On top of that the hype you speak of is when Tsunade and Jiraiya talked about Minato as if he were a kid to them and compared him to the younger generations. Did any of them say " Oh minato was beyond the previous Hokage".. cause he freaking wasn't.

The fact is you want proof from me, but can't provide proof yourself. Either give proof before demanding proof or just shut up and stop being hurt? As I already said in the red words, read the thread without using fanboyism.


3rd Kazekage is said to be the strongest. But are you trying to say that if Minato was hit by Sasori's poison he would survive? Cause the anime clearly shows the motives for Sasori's poison was to assassinate the 3rd Kazekage.


I mean hell you can simply wait and find out yourself.. You say i'm degrading Minato, when I simply stated the facts about him.. his potential is irrelevant to me. But funny that you yourself degrade Tsunade who is considered more legendary than Minato..

 

[Xāvî1]

Tsunade is a fodder compared to minato and his feats...

 

[KingHashirama]

Tsunade is a fodder compared to minato and his feats...

Yup countering the best poisons in the manga like they nothing sure is fodder.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

If you believe it is hate to state facts and look at things from a neutral point.. then keep believing I can't change your opinion on that.

Hype if not proven wrong means everything. Hence why its made. The word "hype" is used for people who's "hype" has been contradicted, like Hiruzen.

Iruka didn't called Hiruzen God of Shinobi.

I put "ot:" for a reason. Everything before it (the one sentence about minato) was my opinion. (Fanboying as you do nicely called it) Not that I let it cloud or obscure my take on your thread. I simply got it out of the way before I got into things.

Ot: No hype or "hearsay" to be more exact means nothing.
Chances are the people giving them these accolades these ridiculous accomplishments never actually seen them do it.

U can't sit hiruzen, kakashi or any hokage for that matter down and tell them to do 1000 techniques. I doubt that many techs have been shown so far in the manga. But by hype the people listed are supposed to be able to do it.

Hype meaning: promote or publicize (a product or idea) intensively, often exaggerating its importance or benefits.

There you have it. One cannot pass off hype as fact because it goes against the meaning of hype. If it is fact( in this case being proven in the manga and not word of mouth) it's no longer hype but feats.