What Was Kishi's Worst War Arc Ass Pull?

[SupremeWater]

DSM Kakashi gave me cancer.

Nasty Hater

 

[MrLukyso]

DMS Kakashi was bad, but BZ and Kaguya were disgusting and ruined the final Arc.

 

[Rikodou Mode]

Minato, Izanami and BZ were the worst

 

[End of Days]

Izanami was conveniently tailor made for sage mode kabuto with zero foreshadowing.

Wireless susanoo, dear god do I need to say anything.

Madara magically being able to use kamui while obito couldn't even though absorbing and phasing are the same jutsu.

Sakura getting a powerup that supposedly requires three years yet we never see any shred of hint before the chapter, and oh it conveniently comes around when sasuke kun comes.

 

[Narutimate Storm]

Minato, Izanami and BZ were the worst

How was minatos the worst?

 

[Rikodou Mode]

How was minatos the worst?

Naruto learning SM and taming Kurama should have remained his achievements, it separated him from the rest of the shinobi including the Kage. When Minato came out with SM and KCM I knew Kishi stopped giving a shit.

 

[Narutimate Storm]

Naruto learning SM and taming Kurama should have remained his achievements, it separated him from the rest of the shinobi including the Kage. When Minato came out with SM and KCM I knew Kishi stopped giving a shit.

Why would you expect minato to not have sage mode, when jiraya be his teacher? Why would jiraya not to teach minato? Minato lived 24 years. That is 8 more years than narutos age of learning sage mode. And minato knew and trained with jiraya far longer than naruto ever did. Naruto surpassed both jiraya and minato, so his achievements surpass theirs. So i dont see any problem. Minato learned it first, so maybe you should to be complaining that naruto steals ohers achievements U_U

Minato also seal kurama i to himself before naruto. So minato was a jinchuuriki first. Minato fought with kurama inside the reaper stomach for 17 years. He probably obtain kcm sometime during that time. Naruto only trained one day and got all that power. Narutos achievements are the ones that dont make sense, his power was all handed to him.

Naruto isnt unique. Kage bunshin - naruto stole it. Rasengan - comes from minato. Kurama - given to him by minato. Sage mode - jiraya and minato inew it first. So you cannot act like naruto is one of a kind, only thing that make naruto special is that he is Ashura. That only reason why he accomplished anything. Nothing naruto has is original. Naruto was not the first sage or perfect jinchuuriki to exist.

 

[Rikodou Mode]

Why would you expect minato to not have sage mode, when jiraya be his teacher? Why would jiraya not to teach minato? Minato lived 24 years. That is 8 more years than narutos age of learning sage mode. And minato knew and trained with jiraya far longer than naruto ever did. Naruto surpassed both jiraya and minato, so his achievements surpass theirs. So i dont see any problem. Minato learned it first, so maybe you should to be complaining that naruto steals ohers achievements U_U

Minato also seal kurama i to himself before naruto. So minato was a jinchuuriki first. Minato fought with kurama inside the reaper stomach for 17 years. He probably obtain kcm sometime during that time. Naruto only trained one day and got all that power. Narutos achievements are the ones that dont make sense, his power was all handed to him.

Naruto isnt unique. Kage bunshin - naruto stole it. Rasengan - comes from minato. Kurama - given to him by minato. Sage mode - jiraya and minato inew it first. So you cannot act like naruto is one of a kind, only thing that make naruto special is that he is Ashura. That only reason why he accomplished anything. Nothing naruto has is original. Naruto was not the first sage or perfect jinchuuriki to exist.

There's no evidence of him fighting with Kurama in the reaper's belly.

There was no backstory of him unlocking KCM, that power was handed to him out of nowhere. And what's the point of giving a character SM if they can't even use it, it was plot no jutsu so that Naruto could fight JJ Obito. U_U

He was already given Rasengan from Minato, Kage Bunshin from Tobirama, and healing similar to Hashirama but each of those Kages had their own attributes unique to them. Taming Kurama should have been Naruto's.

 

[ultraChalk]

I don't get why BZ one shotting Madara isn't everybodies #1

That was the ass pull that bought me closest to stop reading Naruto and I would regard myself as the biggest naruto fan at that point in time

 

[Floydical]

Why would you expect minato to not have sage mode, when jiraya be his teacher? Why would jiraya not to teach minato? Minato lived 24 years. That is 8 more years than narutos age of learning sage mode. And minato knew and trained with jiraya far longer than naruto ever did. Naruto surpassed both jiraya and minato, so his achievements surpass theirs. So i dont see any problem. Minato learned it first, so maybe you should to be complaining that naruto steals ohers achievements U_U

Minato also seal kurama i to himself before naruto. So minato was a jinchuuriki first. Minato fought with kurama inside the reaper stomach for 17 years. He probably obtain kcm sometime during that time. Naruto only trained one day and got all that power. Narutos achievements are the ones that dont make sense, his power was all handed to him.

Naruto isnt unique. Kage bunshin - naruto stole it. Rasengan - comes from minato. Kurama - given to him by minato. Sage mode - jiraya and minato inew it first. So you cannot act like naruto is one of a kind, only thing that make naruto special is that he is Ashura. That only reason why he accomplished anything. Nothing naruto has is original. Naruto was not the first sage or perfect jinchuuriki to exist.

Minato did not have SM before he sealed Kurama in himself and Naruto. If he did, he would have used it against Tobi or in his fight with Kurama. Even if he could train while in the reaper's belly, that does not explain how he had SM to start with. Minato did not have the chakra reserves Naruto had, he would not have qualified well for the training in the first place.

 

[iKaras]

2 if not def 5.

8 for me is Madara using Izanagi like a week after his death.

 

[Tarinth]

Definitely Obito suddenly being able to teleport back into the real world. Since when did people
get their chakra supplies automatically rejuvenated after dying? Heck, why did they turn into kids?
And why can they still use jutsu? I mean, why couldn't ghost Minato do some teleportation into
a tree, and be a tree shinobi that protects his son while we're at it.

And then, sudddenly manifesting PS without having had any practice with susanoo at all. It's just too much BS,
and this is from someone who really enjoyed that. I liked it but I knew it was total trash.

BZ one-shotting Madara is a close second.

 

[Gold Lightning]

Minato did not have SM before he sealed Kurama in himself and Naruto. If he did, he would have used it against Tobi or in his fight with Kurama. Even if he could train while in the reaper's belly, that does not explain how he had SM to start with. Minato did not have the chakra reserves Naruto had, he would not have qualified well for the training in the first place.

Learn how to read the manga for goodness sake, because I'm tired of explaining this over and over again. First of all, tell me where it is said that you need Naruto's level of chakra to master sage mode. Because jiraya has sage mode and his chakra is no where near Narutos. It's said you need enormous chakra reserves to be able to learn senjutsu, and that's what Minato has. Naruto has abnormally large chakra due to the nine tails. Doesn't mean that you need Jinchuuriki level chakra to learn sage mode. You seem to know minatos exact chakra capacity, so explain to me how you know this.

Secondly, explain to me how you'd possibly know what Minato did and did not have before sealing kurama inside himself. Tell me how many alive Minato feats do we have in the manga, because he has very little, so for you to come to such a conclusion is pretty stupid. Minato also didn't use shadow clones in all of his alive appearances, does that mean he did not know it when alive. Let me guess, he learned it after he died right, or was that an ass pull too. Since Minato didn't use shadow clones against Tobi, that constitutes to not having it right .

Lastly, show me where Minato had the opportunity to use sm against Tobi. You know it takes a while to prepare right? You know Minato didn't have time right? You know Minato was in a hurry right? You know the village, his wife and son were in danger right? You realise that Minato didn't need to go all out to stop Tobi right Lol. Did you not read the fight in the manga? Minato stomped him, made him eat dirt, put hm on his backside, ended the fight in minutes, and didn't even take any damage. Explain to me why sm would be needed against such an inferior opponent?

Morons everywhere, wow.

 

[Floydical]

Learn how to read the manga for goodness sake, because I'm tired of explaining this over and over again. First of all, tell me where it is said that you need Naruto's level of chakra to master sage mode. Because jiraya has sage mode and his chakra is no where near Narutos. It's said you need enormous chakra reserves to be able to learn senjutsu, and that's what Minato has. Naruto has abnormally large chakra due to the nine tails. Doesn't mean that you need Jinchuuriki level chakra to learn sage mode. You seem to know minatos exact chakra capacity, so explain to me how you know this.

Secondly, explain to me how you'd possibly know what Minato did and did not have before sealing kurama inside himself. Tell me how many alive Minato feats do we have in the manga, because he has very little, so for you to come to such a conclusion is pretty stupid. Minato also didn't use shadow clones in all of his alive appearances, does that mean he did not know it when alive. Let me guess, he learned it after he died right, or was that an ass pull too. Since Minato didn't use shadow clones against Tobi, that constitutes to not having it right .

Lastly, show me where Minato had the opportunity to use sm against Tobi. You know it takes a while to prepare right? You know Minato didn't have time right? You know Minato was in a hurry right? You know the village, his wife and son were in danger right? You realise that Minato didn't need to go all out to stop Tobi right Lol. Did you not read the fight in the manga? Minato stomped him, made him eat dirt, put hm on his backside, ended the fight in minutes, and didn't even take any damage. Explain to me why sm would be needed against such an inferior opponent?

Morons everywhere, wow.

First of all, learn to have respect for other members on a forum. Just because you disagree with him or her does not give you the right to treat people so poorly. Only people that have earned that level of disrespect should be treated that way, not someone who refrains from insults when dealing with average members.

You find my positions laughable but I find yours truly naïve.

To begin, I wasn't talking about Naruto's Jin chakra, I'm talking about his normal chakra. Its only because of his base levels of chakra that he qualified for Senjutsu. He was only able to use shadow clones to the degree he showed due to his high normal levels of chakra. Against Gaara in part one and during his Wind manipulation training in part 2 he created close to a hundred or more clones at once without accessing Kurama's reserves. Jiraiya certainly had a lot of chakra himself, but not as much as base Naruto at his age. Minato was not known for having high levels of chakra and that is why he was not given SM in the original story, it was added with the war.

I don't get your argument regarding his lack of feats. If anything, his lack of feats IMPLIES his lack of SM. Not using shadow clones in combat gives one reason to believe his chakra levels were not high enough for Senjutsu training.

Inferior opponent? What are you talking about buddy? Minato and Tobi were equals. Minato explicitly stated how strong Tobi was and that he feared his very existence. Don't even think for a moment that Minato didn't have the time to use SM. He was able to separate Naruto from Tobi and get him to a safe spot away from the village. If he had SM, he would have entered SM at that time while he was away from Tobi. Yet he didn't do it, again adding to the evidence that he did not have it.

All this evidence points to him not having SM before he was an edo, that's until Kishi changed it. Kishi randomly gave it to him in the war because as an edo he'd have the chakra needed for it. The BM he gave Minato was added as well, more ways to improve Minato's ability to aid the alliance against Obito. Yet it was not part of the original character of Minato. Again, if Kishi actually intended for him to have those modes before the war, he would have used them in his life and death struggle against Tobi and the Kyuubi.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

Obito coming back as a ghost and possessing Kakashi.

 

[Lariatoo]

Kakashi's was the one that pissed me off the most, but in terms of coming out of nowhere its together with Izanami...

 

[Gold Lightning]

First of all, learn to have respect for other members on a forum. Just because you disagree with him or her does not give you the right to treat people so poorly. Only people that have earned that level of disrespect should be treated that way, not someone who refrains from insults when dealing with average members.

You find my positions laughable but I find yours truly naïve.

To begin, I wasn't talking about Naruto's Jin chakra, I'm talking about his normal chakra. Its only because of his base levels of chakra that he qualified for Senjutsu. He was only able to use shadow clones to the degree he showed due to his high normal levels of chakra. Against Gaara in part one and during his Wind manipulation training in part 2 he created close to a hundred or more clones at once without accessing Kurama's reserves. Jiraiya certainly had a lot of chakra himself, but not as much as base Naruto at his age. Minato was not known for having high levels of chakra and that is why he was not given SM in the original story, it was added with the war.

I don't get your argument regarding his lack of feats. If anything, his lack of feats IMPLIES his lack of SM. Not using shadow clones in combat gives one reason to believe his chakra levels were not high enough for Senjutsu training.

Inferior opponent? What are you talking about buddy? Minato and Tobi were equals. Minato explicitly stated how strong Tobi was and that he feared his very existence. Don't even think for a moment that Minato didn't have the time to use SM. He was able to separate Naruto from Tobi and get him to a safe spot away from the village. If he had SM, he would have entered SM at that time while he was away from Tobi. Yet he didn't do it, again adding to the evidence that he did not have it.

All this evidence points to him not having SM before he was an edo, that's until Kishi changed it. Kishi randomly gave it to him in the war because as an edo he'd have the chakra needed for it. The BM he gave Minato was added as well, more ways to improve Minato's ability to aid the alliance against Obito. Yet it was not part of the original character of Minato. Again, if Kishi actually intended for him to have those modes before the war, he would have used them in his life and death struggle against Tobi and the Kyuubi.

nope, kishi didn't randomly give it to him in the war. That's just what you yourself wants to believe because you can't comprehend it. It was hinted in the past. When Fukasaku said that Naruto had surpassed his predecessors (referring to Minato and Jiraya's silhouettes). He was talking about senjutsu of course.

Naruto has large chakra because of the seal minato constructed for him. The seal was made in a way that leaked small portions of nine tails chakra and blended with narutos own. So yes it's still the nine tails chakra that gives naruto so much stamina. Everything to do with chakra is because of the ninetails influence. Look at the databook description of odama rasengan:
the chakra consumption is also incredible, proportionately to its might. One could say this is a jutsu for no one except Naruto, who possesses Kyuubi's nigh-inexhaustible supply of chakra.
Remember when naruto used this technique for the first time? His eyes went fox like, which means he couldn't even use the technique without fueling from the ninetails. This is the size of narutos odama rasengan while using the nintails chakra:

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Now compare this to minatos base rasengan:

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See that, minato's is even larger just from using his own chakra. While naruto's is smaller even after using nine tails chakra. So don't tell me nonsense about minato not having large chakra. Again, show me how you came to the conclusion that minato doesn't have large chakra? Naruto couldn't even summon bunta without the nine tails chakra before. Yet minato could with his own chakra.

You keep saying minato wasn't known for having large chakra, I'm still waiting for you to provide where you got that conclusion from. I'll wait for you to provide manga evidence of this. You act as if minato appeared in the story as much as jiraya and naruto did?? Are you forgetting that minato was a big secret for most of this manga. Especially when naruto was unaware of who he was, no one was allowed to mention about narutos past and parents. Minatos only battle appearances were against Ay and Bee, and Obito. And each of those didn't last long at all. Just because he didn't show all this techniques doesn't mean he didn't have it. Kakashi didn't use mangekyou against hidan and kakuzu, does that mean he forgot he had it? No it doesn't.

Minato saved his son from Obito. Minato was worried about kushina and said himself "he has to hurry". Minato saves kushina and kushina tells him that the village is under attack. Minato then teleports to the village to save it. So tell me at what point did minato have time to enter sage mode. Tell me how sage mode benefitted minato? He could handle the nine tails without it and he knew he could beat obito without it, so why use it.

And yes Obito was a major threat, but minato was still superior. Just like how pain defeated kakashi. He said kakashi was a formidable opponent that he needed to deal with now. Yet pain didn't use his strongest attacks. If you don't need it, then you don't use it. Stop trying to pretend that sage mode would have in anyway helped minato. Stop claiming kishi changed things because you cannot wrap your head around the most basic thing. Minato and Tobi equals XD pls stop. Minato stomped him. When you beat your opponent in less that 2 minutes, without taking any damage, then no you are not equals. I advise you to look up the word in the dictionary.

 

[Made in Heaven]

DMS Kakashi was awesome but pathetic at the same time.

 

[Floydical]

nope, kishi didn't randomly give it to him in the war. That's just what you yourself wants to believe because you can't comprehend it. It was hinted in the past. When Fukasaku said that Naruto had surpassed his predecessors (referring to Minato and Jiraya's silhouettes). He was talking about senjutsu of course.

Naruto has large chakra because of the seal minato constructed for him. The seal was made in a way that leaked small portions of nine tails chakra and blended with narutos own. So yes it's still the nine tails chakra that gives naruto so much stamina. Everything to do with chakra is because of the ninetails influence. Look at the databook description of odama rasengan:
the chakra consumption is also incredible, proportionately to its might. One could say this is a jutsu for no one except Naruto, who possesses Kyuubi's nigh-inexhaustible supply of chakra.
Remember when naruto used this technique for the first time? His eyes went fox like, which means he couldn't even use the technique without fueling from the ninetails. This is the size of narutos odama rasengan while using the nintails chakra:

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Now compare this to minatos base rasengan:

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You must be registered for see links

See that, minato's is even larger just from using his own chakra. While naruto's is smaller even after using nine tails chakra. So don't tell me nonsense about minato not having large chakra. Again, show me how you came to the conclusion that minato doesn't have large chakra? Naruto couldn't even summon bunta without the nine tails chakra before. Yet minato could with his own chakra.

You keep saying minato wasn't known for having large chakra, I'm still waiting for you to provide where you got that conclusion from. I'll wait for you to provide manga evidence of this. You act as if minato appeared in the story as much as jiraya and naruto did?? Are you forgetting that minato was a big secret for most of this manga. Especially when naruto was unaware of who he was, no one was allowed to mention about narutos past and parents. Minatos only battle appearances were against Ay and Bee, and Obito. And each of those didn't last long at all. Just because he didn't show all this techniques doesn't mean he didn't have it. Kakashi didn't use mangekyou against hidan and kakuzu, does that mean he forgot he had it? No it doesn't.

Minato saved his son from Obito. Minato was worried about kushina and said himself "he has to hurry". Minato saves kushina and kushina tells him that the village is under attack. Minato then teleports to the village to save it. So tell me at what point did minato have time to enter sage mode. Tell me how sage mode benefitted minato? He could handle the nine tails without it and he knew he could beat obito without it, so why use it.

And yes Obito was a major threat, but minato was still superior. Just like how pain defeated kakashi. He said kakashi was a formidable opponent that he needed to deal with now. Yet pain didn't use his strongest attacks. If you don't need it, then you don't use it. Stop trying to pretend that sage mode would have in anyway helped minato. Stop claiming kishi changed things because you cannot wrap your head around the most basic thing. Minato and Tobi equals XD pls stop. Minato stomped him. When you beat your opponent in less that 2 minutes, without taking any damage, then no you are not equals. I advise you to look up the word in the dictionary.

Just astounding.

Of course Naruto surpassed his masters. He had the greatest form of SM ever shown in the manga. Jiraiya's was imperfect and Minato didn't have it, that means he surpassed both. To think Minato had perfect SM prior to his death WOULD RENDER THIS STATEMENT FALSE. Get the point? You are implying Minato had perfect SM like Naruto. If he did, Naruto WOULD NOT HAVE SURPASSED HIM. I don't need any other form of evidence than that to prove you wrong. I don't have any burden of proof as I'm simply defending what was never shown in the manga. Show me a panel of Minato with SM prior to the war then I'll believe you. Kishi is the king of trolling and changing things, this is yet another example.

OMG no it is not the Kyuubi's chakra leaking out that provides Naruto with his high base chakra. Its his NATURAL CHAKRA LEVELS. Kakashi states in Naruto's training that Naruto has more than twice his own chakra and it would be a hundred times if he counted the Kyuubi.

Just because Minato can summon Gamabunta does not make him have a huge chakra supply. Jiraiya summoned Gamabunta like nothing and proceeded to fight drawn out battles afterward. Clearly Jiraiya would have enough chakra to summon even larger toads, but none exist. Summoning Gamabunta PROVES NOTHING. The reason Naruto needed the Nine Tails chakra to summon Gamabunta WAS BECAUSE HE WAS TERRIBLE WITH CHAKRA CONTROL. Naruto's base chakra levels were capable of much more than summoning those measly toads in part one. He simply couldn't control it right. Your arguments and just plain silly as you are making gross assumptions.

Your arguments fail you miserably. Giving examples of Minato's short battles does nothing but help my cause. The only way you're going to prove he has high stamina is if you provide me with long battles of his, outside of being an edo that is.

Wow, I can't believe you are holding to Minato being far superior to Tobi. Only one major blow was landed because they both specialized in avoidance. The battle was over as soon as the first hit was landed. That's exactly what happened. Minato stomping Obito is your own little fantasy. They were equal in that fight bro, all of NB would agree with me.

This is where Minato had the time to go into SM:

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He calmly takes time assessing the battle up to that point and securing Naruto's safety. Don't make me laugh by saying he didn't have the time. Minato didn't have SM until Kishi decided to give it to him in the war, get over it.

 

[Tantalus Thief]

Izanami was conveniently tailor made for sage mode kabuto with zero foreshadowing.

Wireless susanoo, dear god do I need to say anything.

Madara magically being able to use kamui while obito couldn't even though absorbing and phasing are the same jutsu.

Sakura getting a powerup that supposedly requires three years yet we never see any shred of hint before the chapter, and oh it conveniently comes around when sasuke kun comes.

When Itachi first used Susano he had no sharingan activated and his eyes were white, not black which likely meant that he was blind.