Before. The tree/shinju/juubi(whatever you wanna call it) doesn't posses byakugan, and those that become jins' s don't gain it, it's common knowledge that a host gains and keeps the abilities of it's beast even after the beast leaves.
I already addressed that, it's Uzumaki lineage. She dosen't even sound sure of herself. Saying things like "apparently" meaning someone that to her after birth.
She flat out says "born with" meaning she had it since birth.
You need to address:
why animals have chakra(some even have sage(not rikudo) chakra) despite not being decendants of the rikudo.
why kaguya used ppl to make another chakra fruit, if the only ppl that have chakra at the time are her and her two sons.
why a chakra fruit is even there to begin with since the only way to make it is from ppl trapped by the tree.
why the chakra fruit predates kaguya if she's the one to gain chakra.
-It was stated that Hagaomo distributed chakra to them and taught how to use it. Keep in mind Kaguya is the progenitor of chakra.
-She didn't want to make another fruit.
-Again, the fruit grows ever 1000 years. That was just another method which was never shown.
-She gain chakra by eating the fruit.
Before. The tree/shinju/juubi(whatever you wanna call it) doesn't posses byakugan, and those that become jins' s don't gain it, it's common knowledge that a host gains and keeps the abilities of it's beast even after the beast leaves.
Again, the databook says that that Byakugan started with Kaguya. Kaguya is the Juubi not a jin. The tree originally didn't have that Sharingan eye as shown in the flashback. It looked like a tree.
everybody has chakra in them. Ninjas are just ppl who have learned to mold and use it. That's the whole reason civvies were shown being bound by the Divine Tree. They have chakra too.
She flat out says "born with" meaning she had it since birth.
-It was stated that Hagaomo distributed chakra to them and taught how to use it. Keep in mind Kaguya is the progenitor of chakra.
-She didn't want to make another fruit.
-Again, the fruit grows ever 1000 years. That was just another method which was never shown.
-She gain chakra by eating the fruit.
-She also said the word "apparently" leaving room for doubt.
-No it was stated that he tought it to his sons and his sons only.
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And despite teaching it to both asura didn't even have chakra until much later:
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Asura was the one who tought it to ppl.
-Yes she did. The 100,000 zetsu used in the current war, the ppl shown hooked to the tree and Harogomo's very own words are proof of this:
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even after eating the fruit she maintained power through I.T. take note on how they show kaguya's third eye (you see her weird eyebrows) and not madara's. Then it shows 5 ppl hooked up to the tree in I.T. while he explains that the gathering of the chakra (ppl shouldn't have chakra yet according to you) creates another fruit.
-How else do you think the fruit grows? Natural energy alone?
-That dosen't answer the question. But I guess that's due to my bad wording. How does the tree makes fruit without a source of chakra? Cuz the only confirmed way to do it is through it and root hookup.
Again, the databook says that that Byakugan started with Kaguya. Kaguya is the Juubi not a jin. The tree originally didn't have that Sharingan eye as shown in the flashback. It looked like a tree.
everybody has chakra in them. Ninjas are just ppl who have learned to mold and use it. That's the whole reason civvies were shown being bound by the Divine Tree. They have chakra too.
That goes against whats being said in the scan. Body energy and physical energy are seperate until purposefully combined. By getting the balance correct you maximise how much you can do with it:
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Civilians get trapped cuz the tree know how to harvest it.
That goes against whats being said in the scan. Body energy and physical energy are seperate until purposefully combined. By getting the balance correct you maximise how much you can do with it:
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Civilians get trapped cuz the tree know how to harvest it.
you got it backwards, because a number of characters got their facts wrongs due to their own assumption/belief that Hagoromo was just a story. Madara and Hagoromo both stated that before the latter introduced chakra and its nature to ppl, they were just regular folks killing each other.
That goes against whats being said in the scan. Body energy and physical energy are seperate until purposefully combined. By getting the balance correct you maximise how much you can do with it:
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Civilians get trapped cuz the tree know how to harvest it.
you got it backwards, because a number of characters got their facts wrongs due to their own assumption/belief that Hagoromo was just a story. Madara and Hagoromo both stated that before the latter introduced chakra and its nature to ppl, they were just regular folks killing each other.
-She also said the word "apparently" leaving room for doubt.
-No it was stated that he tought it to his sons and his sons only.
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And despite teaching it to both asura didn't even have chakra until much later:
You must be registered for see images
Asura was the one who tought it to ppl.
-Yes she did. The 100,000 zetsu used in the current war, the ppl shown hooked to the tree and Harogomo's very own words are proof of this:
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even after eating the fruit she maintained power through I.T. take note on how they show kaguya's third eye (you see her weird eyebrows) and not madara's. Then it shows 5 ppl hooked up to the tree in I.T. while he explains that the gathering of the chakra (ppl shouldn't have chakra yet according to you) creates another fruit.
-How else do you think the fruit grows? Natural energy alone?
-That dosen't answer the question. But I guess that's due to my bad wording. How does the tree makes fruit without a source of chakra? Cuz the only confirmed way to do it is through it and root hookup.
kaguya's a jin. She hosts the tree. Harogomo said the tree in the war and the tree from his time are 1 and the same.
I think Benjermin Gaye, you got a little problem in interpreting some of Manga panels, Sorry
For me Kaguya information materials is the shortest and most simple compared to other informations in the manga.
OK, this is not about Shinju Chakra fruit athough I will touch a little about it later.
Hagoromo had tought Ninshuu before his sons were born and achive adulthood, maybe in his late 40 he teach his teen sons about fighting and Ninshuu
Ashura and Indra already had Chakra within them but its not bloom yet when they are still young, But Indra chakra bloom and development is faster than Ashura while Ashura look like tortoise in his chakra development, its supported by the statement that he is not as talented as his older brother.
After using cooperation method between humans that also already had chakra, Ashura chakra development and his skill is bloom/thriving/growing to the same level as his very talented brother.
In one panel of Hagoromo explanation, its more than five peoples hooked to the Shinju roots, and that peoples is recieving their chakra from Hagoromo from Ninshuu, not Ashura. Kaguya never spreading any chakra before.
Chakra is actually a natural element in all Human body post-chakra, Shinobis and normal Civilians.
Shinju produce it Chakra fruit long before Kaguya arrived by collecting a massive amount of Raw Natural Energy from around Naruto earth, 1000 years of worth of Natural energy is enough to create a potent chakra fruit.
This chakra is different from Natural Energy, because it had yin-yang and raw elemental substances that exist within Shinju
Earth Natural energy is the base for chakra inside Shinobi while Shinju elemental substance is the base for today elemental affinity inside shinobi.
And this chakra that I talked about is normal body chakra, not ninjutsu base Chakra what Hagoromo tought by Ninshuu is normal body chakra he dont create Ninjutsu base chakra that Shinobi currently used.
Even he informed to Naruto he dont created Ninjutsu but Ninshuu(very peacefull chakra).
Kaguya is not jin, she is Juubi herself
Its because Kaguya combining with Shinju, not Kaguya absorbing Shinju like Obito absorbing Juubi.
When combine it will become a mixing of both of their power like how Constructicon combining together to create Devastator or Goku and Vegeta combining together to create Vegito or Gogeta or how earth elements combine to create Captain Planet.
I think Benjermin Gaye, you got a little problem in interpreting some of Manga panels, Sorry
For me Kaguya information materials is the shortest and most simple compared to other informations in the manga.
OK, this is not about Shinju Chakra fruit athough I will touch a little about it later.
Hagoromo had tought Ninshuu before his sons were born and achive adulthood, maybe in his late 40 he teach his teen sons about fighting and Ninshuu
Ashura and Indra already had Chakra within them but its not bloom yet when they are still young, But Indra chakra bloom and development is faster than Ashura while Ashura look like tortoise in his chakra development, its supported by the statement that he is not as talented as his older brother.
After using cooperation method between humans that also already had chakra, Ashura chakra development and his skill is bloom/thriving/growing to the same level as his very talented brother.
In one panel of Hagoromo explanation, its more than five peoples hooked to the Shinju roots, and that peoples is recieving their chakra from Hagoromo from Ninshuu, not Ashura. Kaguya never spreading any chakra before.
Chakra is actually a natural element in all Human body post-chakra, Shinobis and normal Civilians.
Shinju produce it Chakra fruit long before Kaguya arrived by collecting a massive amount of Raw Natural Energy from around Naruto earth, 1000 years of worth of Natural energy is enough to create a potent chakra fruit.
This chakra is different from Natural Energy, because it had yin-yang and raw elemental substances that exist within Shinju
Earth Natural energy is the base for chakra inside Shinobi while Shinju elemental substance is the base for today elemental affinity inside shinobi.
And this chakra that I talked about is normal body chakra, not ninjutsu base Chakra what Hagoromo tought by Ninshuu is normal body chakra he dont create Ninjutsu base chakra that Shinobi currently used.
Even he informed to Naruto he dont created Ninjutsu but Ninshuu(very peacefull chakra).
Kaguya is not jin, she is Juubi herself
Its because Kaguya combining with Shinju, not Kaguya absorbing Shinju like Obito absorbing Juubi.
When combine it will become a mixing of both of their power like how Constructicon combining to create Devastator or Goku and Vegeta combining to create Vegito or Gogeta or how earth elements combine to create Captain Planet.
Harogomo never said he teaches anyone but his kids. The scan is extremely simple.
He states" a I had two kids and I taught them ninshuu"
he even goes further on to say" I named him(asura) the successor of ninshuu to lead everyone."
Asura was born without chakra and gained it well afterwards:
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Idk were you got the cooperation method from, some scans would be nice.(actually I do but can't remember the specifics, the scans would still be nice tho.
Raw natural energy can't produce chakra.
The rest is very very confusing. I'll get to it later.
Was this stated in jin no sho or Retsu no sho? The main reason why I ask and why I don't think that byakugan is anymore inherently Ootsutsuki than rinnegan or sharingan is because the byakugan takes chakara to activate and use just like the other dojutsus. Hyuugas have been seen making hand seals when activating the byakugan before and it has been shown by Neji that overuse of the byakugan does actually tax the body and the chakara reserves. While it is possible for purely white eyes to be in the alien DNA, Kaguya couldn't have had the power of the byakugan before eating the fruit (unless a retcon has been made and the byakugan doesn't actually require chakara to activate).
Personally, I think that when Kaguya ate the fruit, the chakara genetically enhanced her naturally white eyes to have the byakugan power while simultaneously giving her the rinne sharingan on her forehead. From here, Hagoromo inherited a diluted version of the rinne sharingan (the rinnegan) while Hamura inherited her byakugan genes. Since the Ootsutsuki clan that went up to the moon descended from Hamura, that is why they all got byakugan and not rinnegan. The wiki takes the stance that the rinne sharingan and the power Hagoromo's lineage was the result of the fruit while Hamura's lineage was inherent to the Ootsutsuki. I think the power of both bros came from the fruit. As a result, I think the wiki should have under its kekkei genkai section for the Ootsutsuki:
Byakugan, Tenseigan, Rinnegan, Sharingan, Mangekyou Sharingan, Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, Mokuton, Shikotsumayaku (Bone Jutsu) (The rinne sharingan is a kekkei morra rather than a kekkei genkai).
Instead, the wiki just has byakugan and tenseigan as the kekkei genkai.
He was flat out stated that she didn't have chakra until eating the fruit and the databook pretty much stated that she was progenitor of the Byakugan. Anything else is fanfic.
According to the databook, she came from another dimension, as the leader of the Otsutsuki Clan, just to eat the fruit.
I remember reading elsewhere that she is also ahybrid of a Hyuga and an Ootsutsuki
Harogomo never said he teaches anyone but his kids. The scan is extremely simple.
He states" a I had two kids and I taught them ninshuu"
he even goes further on to say" I named him(asura) the successor of ninshuu to lead everyone."
Asura was born without chakra and gained it well afterwards:
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Idk were you got the cooperation method from, some scans would be nice.(actually I do but can't remember the specifics, the scans would still be nice tho.
Raw natural energy can't produce chakra.
The rest is very very confusing. I'll get to it later.
Actually it never been stated in manga about Chakra fruit producing method, Kishi not explaining it in the manga, its just my assumption.
But when you remember that Kurama said to Naruto that Juubi is using Natural chakra and its hard to measure it, that is my clue that Shinju produsing Chakra fruit in 1000 years using Natural chakra/energy, and that is before Kaguya arrived.
In your scan about Ashura, Hagoromo had informed to you that " he understood that cooperating and help of other people is what made him strong" that is mean all people that he cooperate with help him to trained hard and suffered together for him to achiving his older brother level.
Those peoples that cooperate with him made him strong.
"Chakra within him" what is this telling you, its telling you that Ashura already had chakra inside his body, not that his chakra is zero like you think off
Chakra cant exist in your body from training, if chakra dont exist inside your body, you will die(proof is when Shinju roots absorbed SA chakra in Juubito arc, many shinobi that got cought by that roots die because their chakra is no more)
That is mean Chakra is already exist within Ashura body since his birth, but not bloom or growing yet. I know you are confused by part 1 information about chakra
what part 1 told about chakra is Ninjutsu chakra, chakra that used for combat. What already had in every humans body including Ashura is Non-ninjutsu chakra(ordinary civilian had this kind of chakra).
Sorry because I cant post some scan becuse of using tablet, but I'm using your own materials there.
Our problem is not scan but more to understanding the context of words or statements.
"Apparently" also means "capable of being easily perceived or understood; plain or clear; obvious:". Nobody gave her that chakra. Notice how infant Naruto could properly host Kurama while his father couldn't. Kurama also said that it's because of Kushina's blood that he able to control his chakra.
-No it was stated that he tought it to his sons and his sons only.
It was said that he wasn't born with "strong" chakra and t doesn't state that he taught people.
-Yes she did. The 100,000 zetsu used in the current war, the ppl shown hooked to the tree and Harogomo's very own words are proof of this:
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even after eating the fruit she maintained power through I.T. take note on how they show kaguya's third eye (you see her weird eyebrows) and not madara's. Then it shows 5 ppl hooked up to the tree in I.T. while he explains that the gathering of the chakra (ppl shouldn't have chakra yet according to you) creates another fruit.
No, she wanted them to become Zetsu. Reread chapter 681.
-How else do you think the fruit grows? Natural energy alone?
-That dosen't answer the question. But I guess that's due to my bad wording. How does the tree makes fruit without a source of chakra? Cuz the only confirmed way to do it is through it and root hookup.
According to the databook, she came from another dimension, as the leader of the Otsutsuki Clan, just to eat the fruit.
I remember reading elsewhere that she is also ahybrid of a Hyuga and an Ootsutsuki
