What makes Oda a SOMEWHAT better mangaka in my opinion.

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hixa kuogame

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@bold: What? So many other characters have been getting development in OP. Ace, Shanks, Jinbei, Hordy Jones, Arlong, Boa Hancock, Law, Doflamingo, Buggy, etc have been developed with backstories even back to their childhood, so many characters get development in the story. It's funny that you mention Law's crew when Oda already stated that Law's crew is on the next island the Strawhats plan on heading too.
how have these characters been developed
they get a backstory. and they're side characters
kishimoto has plenty of that
they dont get in a one on one fight every arc displaying a new power or something
its funny because in naruto, if someone comes out of no where with a new power its BS and asspull no jutsu but when sanji comes out of nowhere with diable jambe and zoro has his caliber long range blade attacks and luffy with his gears its just fine though they've never trained or practice and theres no means for them to train or practice since theyre usually on a boat
zoro maybe
but its obviously a lot easier to develop someone when your not using up time showing their development which kishimoto seems to try to avoid

Even still, the 9 Strawhats find themselves working with others and we see plenty of other people in fights and later become relevant in the story outside of fighting, hell, Oda recently brought back a female character who had nothing to do with fighting at all. While Kishi has mainly 3 characters who are constantly being developed in plot and the fighting.

I understand you like Naruto better but I don't see how you can knock Oda for "developing the same characters over and over again" when Kishi does the exact same thing but with fewer characters. It's hypocrisy at it's finest.
kishimoto develops the characters at a sensible rate
and if he develops the same characters more then those are just the characters hes showing develop
if k11 are off screen for a while then make a return then their power ups are usually sensible power ups that make sense as to how they got them

kishimoto doesnt only develop a few characters either
he develops quite a few but they arent always from k11
 
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cptenn94

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You need to remember that Naruto and One Piece are very different stories.

One Piece is much more group oriented around the Straw Hats, while the story of Naruto focuses on the axis between Naruto and Sasuke.

In my eyes they are both good stories in very different ways.
THIS RIGHT HERE. As Kishi manga has been since day 1 been centered around Naruto(he even had naruto himself narrating the first chapters), he is more limited in development of other characters. To hold Naruto a manga centered around the main character and a select few others to the same character development as OP, is downright wrong.

They are different. Its like saying naruto and OP suck because their characters arent as strong as dbz characters.

For the telling and development of naruto(the character) Naruto has been a great series.
For the telling and development of the straw hat pirates, OP has been a great series.
Kishi's downfall was deviating away from Naruto's true goal (hokage) and focusing on chasing Sasuke. Plus he should of emphasized the importance of medical ninjas, so Sakura becomes more useful. The start of shippuden was the series downfall.

Oda takes his time with development so we can appreciate the importance.
Well oda is telling and has been telling a much bigger story than naruto does. Onepiece is about luffy annd crew achieveing their goals, and luffy becoming king of the pirate WORLD. Naruto just wants to be leader of the village. On one contienent.

Narutos downfall was NEVER him not focuseing on being hokage enough. It was simply the lack of developing and showing enough of others. If he developed more characters, and made some developed characters to later kill, it wouldve been better. Basically the series was just a bit too naruto focused, to be as good as it could be.

Yeah I'm not gonna lie some of the people that Oda kept alive was so ridiculous to me. Like the bird guy from the Alabasta arc that flew up into the sky so the bomb wouldn't blow up the city and somehow survived the explosion..that was bullsh*t.
Where was the guy who claimed oda didnt need pnj or asspulls?

So a bomb is magically gonna kill everyone in the city(bird guy included) but miraculously when at point blank range the bomb doesnt even kill him? Yeah thats not a asspull or pnj at all. No sir.
 
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Lilvic92

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THIS RIGHT HERE. As Kishi manga has been since day 1 been centered around Naruto(he even had naruto himself narrating the first chapters), he is more limited in development of other characters. To hold Naruto a manga centered around the main character and a select few others to the same character development as OP, is downright wrong.

They are different. Its like saying naruto and OP suck because their characters arent as strong as dbz characters.

For the telling and development of naruto(the character) Naruto has been a great series.
For the telling and development of the straw hat pirates, OP has been a great series.


Well oda is telling and has been telling a much bigger story than naruto does. Onepiece is about luffy annd crew achieveing their goals, and luffy becoming king of the pirate WORLD. Naruto just wants to be leader of the village. On one contienent.

Narutos downfall was NEVER him not focuseing on being hokage enough. It was simply the lack of developing and showing enough of others. If he developed more characters, and made some developed characters to later kill, it wouldve been better. Basically the series was just a bit too naruto focused, to be as good as it could be.



Where was the guy who claimed oda didnt need pnj or asspulls?

So a bomb is magically gonna kill everyone in the city(bird guy included) but miraculously when at point blank range the bomb doesnt even kill him? Yeah thats not a asspull or pnj at all. No sir.
?
@bold: What makes it ridiculous to me is that the plot really didn't need him so idk what to call it. Is is PnJ, id asspull? Wtf is it?!!

Yeah it leads me to believe that the bomb wouldn't have done that much damage if it couldn't even kill a birdman. Christopher Nolan must've been watching One Piece while writing the ending to The Dark Knight Rises :coffee:
 

Kαmi

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how have these characters been developed
they get a backstory. and they're side characters
kishimoto has plenty of that
they dont get in a one on one fight every arc displaying a new power or something
its funny because in naruto, if someone comes out of no where with a new power its BS and asspull no jutsu but when sanji comes out of nowhere with diable jambe and zoro has his caliber long range blade attacks and luffy with his gears its just fine though they've never trained or practice and theres no means for them to train or practice since theyre usually on a boat
zoro maybe
but its obviously a lot easier to develop someone when your not using up time showing their development which kishimoto seems to try to avoid



kishimoto develops the characters at a sensible rate
and if he develops the same characters more then those are just the characters hes showing develop
if k11 are off screen for a while then make a return then their power ups are usually sensible power ups that make sense as to how they got them

kishimoto doesnt only develop a few characters either
he develops quite a few but they arent always from k11
They've obviously been developed and I'm not denying that Kishi hasn't developed side characters as well, he's just done so on a smaller scale. Luffy's gears come from him becoming more aware of his Gomu Gomu no mi's powers, the facts is Luffy has always had that ability, he's just learning how to better utilize his fruit. None of the moves that Sanji has shown looks like they require much training especially since he gets his training from actual battle. And Zoro has always shown long range attacks, but I see you're already convinced on Zoro's progress. Oda does on and off-screen development, which is very good cause we see and hear about the developed characters, that's much better than always drifting off plot to develop someone. And Kishi does that as well, Sakura and her Yin seal of storing chakra for 3 years which we never heard about til then is proof that Kishi also develops someone while not using time to show their development. The same can be said for K11 who all showed off their techniques against Juubi clones. As I said, you're knocking Oda for doing the same thing Kishi does.

As for Kishi developing characters at a sensible rate, I somewhat agree. While characters like Gaara, Itachi, Obito, etc got developed at a great rate but the same can't be said for all of Kishi's characters, nothing wrong with that either cause no one is gonna write a perfect story successfully developing everyone. I'm just saying that Oda has done a better job than Kishi has, especially since Oda is only halfway in his manga while the clock is ticking for Kishi.
 

cptenn94

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@bold: What makes it ridiculous to me is that the plot really didn't need him so idk what to call it. Is is PnJ, id asspull? Wtf is it?!!

Yeah it leads me to believe that the bomb wouldn't have done that much damage if it couldn't even kill a birdman. Christopher Nolan must've been watching One Piece while writing the ending to The Dark Knight Rises :coffee:
Well the ending to dark knight rises wasnt like that exactly. Batman used autopilot, and jumped out before he got far into the ocean. He wasnt actually there, or near there when the bomb went off. Pell(the bird guy) had no autopilot. He was holding the bomb when it exploded.

Oda just doesnt like to kill people it seems. Just have them all inexplicably live through attacks that are easily fatal. He doesnt even kill fodder usually.
 

saw2097

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Kishi's downfall was deviating away from Naruto's true goal (hokage) and focusing on chasing Sasuke. Plus he should of emphasized the importance of medical ninjas, so Sakura becomes more useful. The start of shippuden was the series downfall.

Oda takes his time with development so we can appreciate the importance.
That's called plot evolution and character development and was always the intended story line. Kishimoto has said in several interviews that the overall story line is two best friends become enemies.

He made a reference to the story line of bad guys becoming good guy said he wanted to do the opposite.

Both mangas have their flaws and their successes.
 
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Hexuze

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That's called plot evolution and character development and was always the intended story line. Kishimoto has said in several interviews that the overall story line is two best friends become enemies.

He made a reference to the story line of bad guys becoming good guy said he wanted to do the opposite.

Both mangas have their flaws and their successes.
Please send me a link where he said that. Character development? lol you gotta be kidding me.
 

hixa kuogame

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They've obviously been developed and I'm not denying that Kishi hasn't developed side characters as well, he's just done so on a smaller scale. Luffy's gears come from him becoming more aware of his Gomu Gomu no mi's powers, the facts is Luffy has always had that ability, he's just learning how to better utilize his fruit. None of the moves that Sanji has shown looks like they require much training especially since he gets his training from actual battle. And Zoro has always shown long range attacks, but I see you're already convinced on Zoro's progress. Oda does on and off-screen development, which is very good cause we see and hear about the developed characters, that's much better than always drifting off plot to develop someone. And Kishi does that as well, Sakura and her Yin seal of storing chakra for 3 years which we never heard about til then is proof that Kishi also develops someone while not using time to show their development. The same can be said for K11 who all showed off their techniques against Juubi clones. As I said, you're knocking Oda for doing the same thing Kishi does.

As for Kishi developing characters at a sensible rate, I somewhat agree. While characters like Gaara, Itachi, Obito, etc got developed at a great rate but the same can't be said for all of Kishi's characters, nothing wrong with that either cause no one is gonna write a perfect story successfully developing everyone. I'm just saying that Oda has done a better job than Kishi has, especially since Oda is only halfway in his manga while the clock is ticking for Kishi.
im not knocking oda
im pointing out that people bash kishimoto for doing the same thing oda does and that its funny how its ok for oda to do it but kishimoto cant
for example i remember when sasuke got the legs to his susanoo and people were calling it BS and asspull and things but when luffy got gears he was "finding the potential of his gum gum fruit" but cant the same thing be said for sasuke?
"he was finding the potential of his susanoo"
Oda does "off-screen development" but the thing is there is never any hint to the off-screen development so when people are coming out of nowhere with these new powers that increase their strength exponentially then of coarse thats easy to call development
its like skipping from 1 to 4 to 7 to 12
whereas, kishimoto kinda takes it step by step therefore taking it gradually, he can only actually show the development for certain characters leaving us to make the assumption that others are training off-screen give a large enough gap to make theyre skip from say, 1 to 6 understandable
for example, the last time hinata was in a fight, she was a '3' then kishi leaves time and over that time we can assume shes been training, trying to get stronger, so next we see her fighting a juubi clone and she displays a new move. we can assume that piece of development came from the off-screen training and she goes from a 3 to 5 which is sensible considering the time, her character, and how she would have been training
but Oda doesnt do this so when a character gets new powers ups it doesnt make sense because they kinda came out of no where but its all ok because he's Oda
granted, Sakura's yin seal was very coincidental being that it takes three years and all but i can see Oda doing this
 

Lilvic92

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Naruto 650 chapters, One piece 700 :|
lol I get what you're doing, I agree people make it seem as though Naruto doesn't have sh*tload of chapters too lol. But you cheated, One Piece has like 730 chapters.

Agreed. Good character development is one of the things that make One Piece what it is.
Is that Cody in your sig?! Spoiler alert!!! I haven't made that far in the anime yet:noes:
 

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About powers bursting out of said nowhere well in to me what matters is how the powers are revealed. A worst case scenario is FairyTail were the guy is down and out then bam KO the enemy. Now when Oda does something that wld have been totally thw same he does a small power show then the full reveal like with Zoro's Asura just that one tym Kaku says somestuff and u kinda see a ghostly(not that showing) Asura release that makes it ok for me, with Luffy its not coz the power just miraculously came out its how when its explained it seems very possible and u still get to see the power on a smaller scale before it is used to takedown the main badguy and win the arc, in Sanji's case well we all knew he burned with passion. On the Pell issue well fyn and its maybe the blind fan in me but just wait and Pell will b there in the final war and he will b a bosushoku haki master a d a small flash back will show back on the day of the bomb he stumbles into it much lyk Coby with Kenboshoku haki in Marineford. I call bs when something is done and it directly contaradicts the set laws of its universe lyk(well its maybe me not being as attentive to the series as I shld b) Madara using Susanoo while blind or was it one eye, and how it seemed to me lyk controlling thr Juubi was a tad lot easier than doing thr same with the Kyuubi.
 

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Oda doesn't need asspull and PnJ
... lol How do you define PnJ? You have to have a plot for that you know? :p

Oda is good at raising emotions. He knows how to work with them and angles for all the spices - in the right mix. You are riding a tide and you ignore irrelevant things like how making a staircase in the air or second gear is picked from Tom and Jerry fight or how Luffy suddenly came out of the Colosseum no one could go out or little things like that.

Kishi made a universe which is quite rigid and gives him much less flexibility in such terms. He tried to explain a bit too much but that made people use actual physics and science when reading a shonnen manga. People question si-fi crap less but they pick up their calculators to measure attacks in Naruto. :p

If a Madara would pull susano while being blind in OP we will hear nothing but about the awesomeness of that character all day. Because Oda never go in to details to that extent in the first place to get himself in such a situation. Devil fruits and haki are defined but loosely in comparison and can be added to a character at any time unlike Naruto where you either have a KG or not.

Also OP just started to gear up and something like a definite plot came up in recent arcs. So it's getting exciting. while Naruto is near ending. It would be much less a headache if instead of sporking people can move on to what they like and pay less attention to what they don't.
 
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Didn't read. Too much text lol.

Anyways, i used to like Naruto alot but after Pain lost it all went downhill. Oda actually knows how to keep characters relevant. Yamato is still in that cave.
 
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Please send me a link where he said that. Character development? lol you gotta be kidding me.
Frankly there is a lot of character development in Naruto. Naruto itself grew beyond childish dream of becoming a hokage only. It's still his goal but he can see there are other more important things to take care of as well.

Both stories are totally different and you cannot expect the same treatment for the two. One is a surreal dream taking you on an adventure with a lot of light moments and fun going with the flow and another is about inner struggles of characters. Naruto talks about violence and wars but focuses on conflicted people instead of outright selfish/meanie/greedy/power hungry people. Such characters are are there but they are less less relevant and get off screen faster- for that reason. There are shades of grey and people on the dark side have their personal justification for their actions. It's not a black and white world but which one is still better or more righteous. How can the decisions of today may shape a tomorrow and all that less thrilling talk. Obviously the theme of the second is less appealing if you are looking for a fun ride on the beach.

It all comes to what you prefer and want to read at the moment.
 
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vasu 32

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The day Oga can write a series which can -make masses all around the world go crazy to such length where it's fans create more than 50 or so forums site like NB,has atleast 5.6 million FB likes in every Naruto dedicated FB pages,stay at rank 1 in nearly every manga viewing sites' most popular category for decades,etc.....not to mention create characters so deep that fans are willing to give up their lives,in case of their favourites' death,.....then we'll talk,kid.

Oda ,for me, is just a self confused writer,who just don't know where to end his masterpiece,that's why even after 731 chapter there is not a single clue to as what is ONEPIECE,other than it's exist. And please don't say it's a treasure because you know it ain't.

There are lot of other reason you like Onepiece,but,oh well!...
 
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