What make BSM<BM ?

[ANiMUS]

Sorry about the title I meant: What makes BSM>BM

I mean as far as I can tell its SM Naruto surrounded by the bijuu cloak. As far as I can tell its SM Naruto surrounded by the bijuu cloak.
That was proven here:

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I know ppl say SM acts as a multiplIer, but Naruto is holding on to two different chakras and the one that is being Amplified is Naruto's NOT KURAMA'S
The only thing that makes it useful is that Naruto can use it to place his senjutsu chakra inside the bijuu cloak so it won't be affected by omnyodon. Without the senjutsu chakra being used in the formation of the jutsu bijuu dama don't get turned into senjutsu and therefore don't benefit from the increase. Strength may increase if there isn't a limit or that the affect from the bijuu chakra doesnt overshadow the SM enhancements and the nature aura provides a level of protection under the cloak.
Naure aura, omnyodon immunity, and added sensory. For all the hyping thats not that much.


Any legitimate arguments will be appreciated

 

[Naruto.]

Added sensory, Sage Mode reflexes, amplification of jutsus like Bijuu Dama, energy from the nature, etc.

 

[-immortal-]

Added sensory, Sage Mode reflexes, amplification of jutsus like Bijuu Dama, energy from the nature, etc.

thus guy killing em.

 

[Wolfus]

We all know how SM works:

Spoiler

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This is very important: after entering SM, the atributes of the user get a serious power up(strength, durability, speed, etc)

Now, let's understand what happens in BSM. Naruto is in BM, and then, he enters sage mode. Kurama's chackra can sync perfectly with senjutsu chakra. Naruto enters BSM.
In this situation, it's easy to see that, for BSM, Naruto BM acts as a base form. What does this mean? It means that BSM is an amplified version of the BM, all the atributes were increased, as it is how the SM works.

SM was portrayed as a multiplier, increasing the user's atributes in proportions. In this case:

Naruto BSM/ Naruto BM= Naruto SM/ Naruto base form= X. X is the constant of multiplication of the SM, the multiplying factor of the SM.
So you multiply by X thr atributes of the base form, in this case, naruto BM is a base form to BSM.

As kurama's chakra managed to sync perfectly with the SM, being in BM doesn't prevent the multiplying factor to be applied.

Another thing people say is: "Ah, but kurama comes from juubi, so it's natural energy, so it doesn't increase the power". That's a mistake. The bijuu chakras clearly changed from when they were the juubi, and from when they were natural energy. Bijuu chakra=/= natural energy and =/= senjutsu chakra.
The proof is that naruto needed to enter SM to affect obito, even while in KCM and BM. And even juugo's sage chakra from his sage transformation, that is an incomplete SM, could do it. And let's remember that juugo's senjuutsu was mixed with susanoo So, kurama's chakra is very different from senjutsu chakra and from natural energy.

Another thing is that: "NO, because BM is more powerful, so SM wouldn't make a diference". This is false. When naruto enters SM in BM, naruto is in sync with all of kurama's chakra. BM acts like a base form to BSM. That happens because when naruto is in BM, all of kurama's chakra are put together in his chakra system, that's how they "become one", or "become fused" in BM. To enter SM, naruto has to gather natural energy and balance it in his chakra system. So, as kurama's chakra is in the system while naruto is in BM form, naruto gathers natural energy to make the balance with all that chakra, his plus kurama's. That's why his power would get amplified either way, because he is balancing natural energy with his BM, and not just with his chakra.

That means that the multiplier is still aplied.

With BSM, compared to BM, naruto is stronger, is faster, more resistant, more durable can heal himself faster and better, is more powerful, has better reflex, and has better sensor abilities.

 

[ANiMUS]

Added sensory, Sage Mode reflexes, amplification of jutsus like Bijuu Dama, energy from the nature, etc.

Physical abilities are already enhanced by BM so there is a chance of overshadowing. Just adding senjutsu chakra to a jutsu doesn't make it a senjutsu. That only jutsu molded using senjutsu chakra

 

[Naruto.]

Physical abilities are already enhanced by BM so there is a chance of overshadowing. Just adding senjutsu chakra to a jutsu doesn't make it a senjutsu. That only jutsu molded using senjutsu chakra

Loool, I mis-read your thread title. xD Wait wot. I read the description again. xD
True, but the intensity and power of the jutsu increases.

 

[adeshina365]

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[ANiMUS]

We all know how SM works:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

This is very important: after entering SM, the atributes of the user get a serious power up(strength, durability, speed, etc)

Now, let's understand what happens in BSM. Naruto is in BM, and then, he enters sage mode. Kurama's chackra can sync perfectly with senjutsu chakra. Naruto enters BSM.
In this situation, it's easy to see that, for BSM, Naruto BM acts as a base form. What does this mean? It means that BSM is an amplified version of the BM, all the atributes were increased, as it is how the SM works.

SM was portrayed as a multiplier, increasing the user's atributes in proportions. In this case:

Naruto BSM/ Naruto BM= Naruto SM/ Naruto base form= X. X is the constant of multiplication of the SM, the multiplying factor of the SM.
So you multiply by X thr atributes of the base form, in this case, naruto BM is a base form to BSM.

As kurama's chakra managed to sync perfectly with the SM, being in BM doesn't prevent the multiplying factor to be applied.

Another thing people say is: "Ah, but kurama comes from juubi, so it's natural energy, so it doesn't increase the power". That's a mistake. The bijuu chakras clearly changed from when they were the juubi, and from when they were natural energy. Bijuu chakra=/= natural energy and =/= senjutsu chakra.
The proof is that naruto needed to enter SM to affect obito, even while in KCM and BM. And even juugo's sage chakra from his sage transformation, that is an incomplete SM, could do it. And let's remember that juugo's senjuutsu was mixed with susanoo So, kurama's chakra is very different from senjutsu chakra and from natural energy.

Another thing is that: "NO, because BM is more powerful, so SM wouldn't make a diference". This is false. When naruto enters SM in BM, naruto is in sync with all of kurama's chakra. BM acts like a base form to BSM. Naruto gathers natural energy to make the balance with all that chakra, his plus kurama's. That's why his power would get amplified either way, because he is balancing natural energy with his BM, and not just with his chakra.

That means that the multiplier is still aplied.

With BSM, compared to BM, naruto is stronger, is faster, more resistant, more durable can heal himself faster and better, is more powerful, has better reflex, and has better sensor abilities.

Too freaking long
Syncing to kurama's chakra doesn't mean it becomes one force. Naruto simply gains the ability to utilize kurama's chakra in full. If all of the kyuubi chakra was senjutsu what would be the need of adding senjutsu chakra to bijuudamas or the rasengan. Seeing how the chakra used to formulate them was senjutsu chakra it should already have that.

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Can't the heightened reaction just be an affect of SM's danger sensing ability?

 

[Wolfus]

Too freaking long
Syncing to kurama's chakra doesn't mean it becomes one force. Naruto simply gains the ability to utilize kurama's chakra in full. If all of the kyuubi chakra was senjutsu what would be the need of adding senjutsu chakra to bijuudamas or the rasengan. Seeing how the chakra used to formulate them was senjutsu chakra it should already have that.

When naruto enters SM in BM, naruto is in sync with all of kurama's chakra. BM acts like a base form to BSM. That happens because when naruto is in BM, all of kurama's chakra are put together in his chakra system, that's how they "become one", or "become fused" in BM. To enter SM, naruto has to gather natural energy and balance it in his chakra system. So, as kurama's chakra is in the system while naruto is in BM form, naruto gathers natural energy to make the balance with all that chakra, his plus kurama's. That's why his power would get amplified either way, because he is balancing natural energy with his BM, and not just with his chakra.

That's how the powers "become one force". As for your question, it's simply because he is balancing it all. Do you remember the bijuu dama training? It has to get the perfect % of yin and yang otherwise it would fire backwards? That's the problem. Things would get different when senjutsu is within the chakra, it would most likely change the correct % due to the senjutsu. So he would have to find to match the correct % with senjutsu and try carefully this senjutsu in the bijuu dama, because it's a very unstable jutsu.

EDIT: Besides, after that panel with minato, naruto was easily able to fire many senpou bijuu damas at obito when he was fighting alongiside sasuke.

Why all its jutsu are just formed normally and then added with senjutsu chakra topping?

Because senjutsu being added amplifies the power of everything. Fukasaku stated that's how senjutsu works(gamakichi even made the ice cream analogy).

 

[ANiMUS]

When naruto enters SM in BM, naruto is in sync with all of kurama's chakra. BM acts like a base form to BSM. That happens because when naruto is in BM, all of kurama's chakra are put together in his chakra system, that's how they "become one", or "become fused" in BM. To enter SM, naruto has to gather natural energy and balance it in his chakra system. So, as kurama's chakra is in the system while naruto is in BM form, naruto gathers natural energy to make the balance with all that chakra, his plus kurama's. That's why his power would get amplified either way, because he is balancing natural energy with his BM, and not just with his chakra.

That's how the powers "become one force". As for your question, it's simply because he is balancing it all. Do you remember the bijuu dama training? It has to get the perfect % of yin and yang otherwise it would fire backwards? That's the problem. Things would get different when senjutsu is within the chakra, it would most likely change the correct % due to the senjutsu. So he would have to find to match the correct % with senjutsu and try carefully this senjutsu in the bijuu dama, because it's a very unstable jutsu.

Is that balance also needed for rasengan?XD
Also if you get knocked out of BSM and SM is what remains isn't it safe to say SM was the base. If BM was the base SM would have disappeared along with BM

 

[Wolfus]

Is that balance also needed for rasengan?XD
Also if you get knocked out of BSM and SM is what remains isn't it safe to say SM was the base. If BM was the base SM would have disappeared along with BM

Does rasengan need yin and yang correct %? Is rasengan as easy as bijuu dama? If it were, naruto wouldn't have struggled with TBB in their training.
I don't consider that he was KOed, but I'll explain. What happened is that naruto got out of BM. So when that happens, kurama's chakra leaves naruto's chakra system. However, naruto's chakra remains, obviously. And as there was natural energy balanced with naruto's chakra too, he remains in SM.
You're talking about when obito threw naruto and sasuke, right?

 

[Sapiens Sequax Sex Semita]

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For BM they meld ther chakras together so adding senjutsu to the mix amplify the already mixed chakra the same way it does narutos normal chakra

 

[Huzaifa]

Does rasengan need yin and yang correct %? Is rasengan as easy as bijuu dama? If it were, naruto wouldn't have struggled with TBB in their training.
I don't consider that he was KOed, but I'll explain. What happened is that naruto got out of BM. So when that happens, kurama's chakra leaves naruto's chakra system. However, naruto's chakra remains, obviously. And as there was natural energy balanced with naruto's chakra too, he remains in SM.
You're talking about when obito threw naruto and sasuke, right?

Your wasting your time he doesn't want to listen. She is a known sasuke fan boy. Oh yea triple posting nice really desperate huh?

 

[ANiMUS]

Does rasengan need yin and yang correct %? Is rasengan as easy as bijuu dama? If it were, naruto wouldn't have struggled with TBB in their training.
I don't consider that he was KOed, but I'll explain. What happened is that naruto got out of BM. So when that happens, kurama's chakra leaves naruto's chakra system. However, naruto's chakra remains, obviously. And as there was natural energy balanced with naruto's chakra too, he remains in SM.
You're talking about when obito threw naruto and sasuke, right?

My point with the rasengan thing was that Naruto did the same thing that he did with the rasengan to the tbb.
Yep, but that still would mean that the percentage of natural energy naruto would have gain would've been the amount sufficient for bm which >> Naruto's chakra. If it was an automatic process like you state. Naruto would be a TOAD.
Simply put Naruto didn't disengage BM he lost his ability to maintain it during the trauma. Sorry, but my thesis is simply more logic a base can not inadvertently disappear and the added substance remain syncing perfect unison to another source.

 

[flyboyissac]

Bsm is an amp to bm increases the power what normal naruto would get in sage mode

 

[ANiMUS]

Your wasting your time he doesn't want to listen. She is a known sasuke fan boy. Oh yea triple posting nice really desperate huh?

I am doing this from my phone so editing is a pain and I am very impatient. Sorry, for the triple post, but above Sasuke, Madara or Gaara (my top 3) I try to use logic. If you can't let go of a stereotype long enough to have a decent discussion then you are not needed here.

 

[Wolfus]

My point with the rasengan thing was that Naruto did the same thing that he did with the rasengan to the tbb.
Yep, but that still would mean that the percentage of natural energy naruto would have gain would've been the amount sufficient for bm which >> Naruto's chakra. If it was an automatic process like you state. Naruto would be a TOAD.
Simply put Naruto didn't disengage BM he lost his ability to maintain it during the trauma. Sorry, but my thesis is simply more logic a base can not inadvertently disappear and the added substance remain syncing perfect unison to another source.

Wrong. When kurama's chakra left naruto's chakra system(I didn't say he disengaged it, but that's what happens when he leaves BM, either by choice or not), the senjutsu balanced in it also leaves, as it was balanced and united with kurama's chakra.
What was left was naruto's chakra, but this chakra was also balanced with natural energy.

There is also another possible expanation: the momment kurama's chakra left naruto's chakra system, naruto simply balanced the natural energy within him and the rest was expelled out of the chakra system.

 

[Sapiens Sequax Sex Semita]

My point with the rasengan thing was that Naruto did the same thing that he did with the rasengan to the tbb.
Yep, but that still would mean that the percentage of natural energy naruto would have gain would've been the amount sufficient for bm which >> Naruto's chakra. If it was an automatic process like you state. Naruto would be a TOAD.
Simply put Naruto didn't disengage BM he lost his ability to maintain it during the trauma. Sorry, but my thesis is simply more logic a base can not inadvertently disappear and the added substance remain syncing perfect unison to another source.

try to think of it this way

narutos chakra = A

Kuramas = B

Natural energy = C

senjutsu = A+C = S

BM= A+B=K

Now A+C = S so if naruto and kuramas chakra are combined into one thing like during BM it would be A+B = K

so when hes in BM his chakra is K so narutos chakra as A and kuramas as B no longer exist as separate things so when adding nature energy to make senjutsu chakra to make BSM it would be K+C = BSM Where A is replaced with K.

at least thats how i was interpreting it..

 

[ANiMUS]

Can't the heightened reaction just be an affect of SM's danger sensing ability?

Wrong. When kurama's chakra left naruto's chakra system(I didn't say he disengaged it, but that's what happens when he leaves BM, either by choice or not), the senjutsu balanced in it also leaves, as it was balanced and united with kurama's chakra.
What was left was naruto's chakra, but this chakra was also balanced with natural energy.

There is also another possible expanation: the momment kurama's chakra left naruto's chakra system, naruto simply balanced the natural energy within him and the rest was expelled out of the chakra system.

Your first explanation was more plausible. That would mean that Kurama's and Naruto's chakra were filled with senjutsu chakra. Therefore as one chakra was severed the other remained. Is that right

 

[Wolfus]

Your first explanation was more plausible. That would mean that Kurama's and Naruto's chakra were filled with senjutsu chakra. Therefore as one chakra was severed the other remained. Is that right

I also believe more in my first explanation. And yeah, it's what you said.