what is your opinion on the Kagyua Arc?

Dondaime Hokage Naruto

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The arc was terrible. Not even once I felt that the characters were in danger. Kaguya had potential but she ended up being an uniteresting character in the arc. Kishi should have just kept 3 Eye Madara having Kaguya's power and influence since he absorbed the Shinjuu. This way we would have an op and interesting fight.
 

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The worst arc by far. It had potential, but was rushed and poorly executed. Kishi didn't give a shit about consistency in this arc.
 

BLAZE

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Epitome of Horse $#!t
 

SkyGodHorus

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I meant after and Sasuke did not know how to due IT through out the entire Kaguya fight. He was even seperated from the team at one point.

Actually, it was Sasuke who suggested that the Rinnegan could undo it and it was he who used his susano'o to protect them when it when it was cast lols..

And Obito and Sakura were separated as well. Your point? It doesn't change that he could undo it.

Where was the second moon in the Last or anywhere else in the manga?

Probably destroyed.

Madara said that Genjutsu was the Gedo Mazo's power in the third panel. So he kinda did have a Bijuu.

No, he said it was "his power" when connected to the mazou.



He also says "By using the moon instead of my eyes to cast this Genjutsu, I'll create the dream world". This implies that was a nerfed version of IT.

It doesn't imply anything. It was a base sharingan genjutsu with amplified power. IT works from the Shinju binding the person and using their chakra.
 
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narutojunky

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I loved the whole war arc.

I loved the whole series.

Here is my list of important things that happened in the arc, especially during the Kaguya fight.

1.The healing of Kakashi
2.The redemption of Obito
3.The end of 1,000 year cycle of war
4.The birth of a new era
5.The revelation of the NV as a vast and wondrous place
6.The revelation of the history of the era of ninjitsu
7.The revelation of the source of all powers in NV
8.Acceptance of the tailed beasts
9.Team 7 reunited
10.The lesson of teamwork is finally understood
11.The revelation of the source of purpose to IT/Zetsus
12.Naruto achieves his goal of becoming greater then the Hokage, actually greater then all kage
13.Naruto and Sasuke rise to the top of the world, even to the top of their era!
14.The return of the sexy no justu
15. Oh yeah, and the revelation of Kaguya, the source of all chakra, and the terror of her tyranny
16. AAAANNND...Naruto happens to save his best friend and become Hokage, find love and have children
17.Kakashi's generation is not overshadowed by the previous or the next as Kakashi becomes the sixth!
18.Kakashi and Obito become dear friends again
19.Kakashi and Obito team up one last time to help save EVERYONE!!!
20.Rin forgives Obito

Here are some general defense points I have in regards to the end of the series:

1. The structure of the story is a spiral, as the reader is moved to the end of the story it speeds up, just like looking at a whirlpool or spiral. The final fight to redeem friendship was only a few chapters but so intense and then WHAM we're pulled out to the edge of a new cycle in the whirlpool as we meet Bolt and his friends.

2.Kakashi and Obito merging at the end made total sense because of the theme of "two eyes together" and it was only together that they had the skills to create the PS

3.Kaguya was single minded, and corrupt. A moment of compassion when she cries is replaced by her rage. She spent a 1,000 years sealed away and was unable to grow as a person or to even conceive of her actions as wrong. She fit more into the Kakuzu/Hidan camp of villains, very different from the Nagato/Obito/Madara camp of villains.

4.Kaguya and Black Zetsu were not just individuals but also a metaphor of the entire history that Naruto was trying to change.

5.It was more important for Madara to be destroyed by his ambition instead of Naruto. Madara was correct about the hypocrisy of the village system and its love of violence, he had good purpose but he was tainted by the love of his own genius and his lack of trust i.e. his ambition, which is what destroyed him.

6.Love and compassion are shown to be the most important traits of the new era, not power and control.

7. The pairing of N/H and S/S makes total sense. Naruto and Hinata need each other as they are both in need of encouragement and love. Sasuke needs Sakura because she is so forgiving. Sakura does two things: promises a home just like the one he lost and forgives him for going off the rails. Sakura is a healer in all aspects of her life. Both relationships are perfect.

8. When I was going through the war arc week to week I found myself becoming impatient and tired of endless battles. I missed the days of laughing at the bath house, eating Ichiraku ramen, watching Choji eat seven servings of BBQ, Sakura and Ino battling it out for Sasuke, Guy and Lee laughing, crying and working together, Kakashi reading make out tactics and all of the other wonderful village moments that helped all of our favorite characters grow.

At first I was miffed that it was only endless battles, I mean three years of the same damn war arc, how much patience am I supposed to have?!!? But then I realized something; Kishimoto made me miss Konohoa, he made me miss home and made me realize how it might feel during war to long for peace and familiarity. So when chapter 700 finally came out I found myself filled with joy! A rebuilt Konohoa, a new generation and a whole new world filled with computers and a giant city, so cool! I sort of wanted Kishimoto to go through and have 100 chapters of everyone just hanging out, but then I realized, I had imagined most of it. I knew the characters so well I didn't need Kishi to micro manage my experience.

9.The main problem with a series this popular that lasts for as long as it did is that everyone has an idea of how it should end and what it should be, and there is no way for one person and their editors to come up with a solution to match millions of imaginations.

10.The Kaguya arc was not an ending, in fact nothing at the end of Naruto indicated there was an end, it kind of indicated a lot of new avenues that are similar to the avenues discovered in DBZ after DB i.e. aliens and afterlife. What was that castle doing in those weird dimensions? What is everyone doing in the afterlife? Do we really think Kaguya is the only one of her kind? etc. etc.

My feeling is that it will be expanded upon in the mini-series/novels/movies and most likely will develop into a new era story arc in 2016.

Also, as far as retcon, plot no jutsu, deux ex machina, and blah blah blah, I don't buy it. The story has always been about how different ideologies work through different personalities to change cycles, not about the technicality of magic powers, which is always completely improvable because it is not real at all, it is in fact fiction.

I can't logic out fireballs or why certain characters have certain fireballs or magic eyes or whatever, but I can logic out that through the War/Kaguya/Final Fight Arcs that we saw the rise of love, compassion and collaboration overturn a 1,000 years of war and mistrust.
 

Shanks

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It was Darkest Period of the Naruto Manga . I was Actually glad Kaguya got Defeated very fast .

Most of the thing i would say this arc was mostly to Show Obito being a hero and be forgiven for the Price he paid killing Naruto Closest family members and Friends . Kishi Wanted Obito to Shown as Hero rather than a Villain in Readers Mind .

Also it Coincides with the last movie which he was Covering Otsutsuki Arc thinking bringing God like Entity will Surprise the Reader however it was opposite of it . I may remember in last Shonen Jump interview he said he had no idea how to End Madara's Character.
 
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MAN OF SIN

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It was Darkest Period of the Naruto Manga . I was Actually glad Kaguya got Defeated very fast .

Most of the thing i would say this arc was mostly to Show Obito being a hero and be forgiven for the Price he paid killing Naruto Closest family members and Friends . Kishi Wanted Obito to Shown as Hero rather than a Villain in Readers Mind .

Also it Coincides with the last movie which he was Covering Otsutsuki Arc thinking bringing God like Entity will Surprise the Reader however it was opposite of it . I may remember in last Shonen Jump interview he said he had no idea how to End Madara's Character.

He lied.
 

Zol

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To me, it is the best arc of the manga, since, duh, it features Kaguya-hime:ilu:

Although I have to admit it felt rushed towards the end and there was so much more that Kishi could have done with her...

Still, I can't wait to see it in the anime!:bouncy:
 

GinkgoLeaf Girl

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I would have been okay with it had we'd madara get pushed to his limits, and then lose. My biggest problem is that we didn't get to see madara's full potential.

After thinking about it for a while, I must say I was disappointed with it. It started out great with Madara, then Kaguya after very little backstory foreshadowing in only the previous arc no less came out of nowhere and ruined a lot of things. I tried to give her a chance with her epic and scary entrance, when when Black Zetsu "defeated" Madara out of nowhere, it just became awkward and somewhat ridiculous. Thankfully Naruto, Sasuke, Kakashi, Sakura and Obito were awesome in the fight, and the choreography was suspenseful, but Kaguya herself was just uninteresting. She had no personality when Kishimoto could have easily given her one, she wasn't the final villain heavily foreshadowed throughout the series, her powers were mostly rehashes of other characters' techniques, etc. She wasn't exactly original either lols.

Then we came to Naruto vs. Sasuke, which for the most part was great, but it too felt incredibly rushed and a bit anticlimactic with its "overly happy" ending, probably because all this time I believed the prophecy that either one or both of them would be killed and that Naruto and Sakura would actually get together while Sasuke went with Karin, but boooy was I off lols. The arc also reeked of implied retcons. Hagoromo's tools being reintroduced then dropped, the white zetsus "actually being people from the previous IT," Madara getting incredibly heavy hype in the first half of the arc, and so on and so forth.

I disliked the ending so much that I'm rewriting it as a fanfiction, though I suppose that's not such a bad thing being that it's inspired me to start writing again lol

I've all but decided against watching the film since it's all but completely spoiled for me and I dislike the forced romance between Naruto and Hinata in it, what's more that being pretty much the central theme. I'm not really looking forward to Bolt being the main in part 3, since this is Naruto part 3, not Bolt, the Naruto carbon copy part 1 lols but since Kishimoto has still left things in the story in the dark and Orochimaru will be returning I've decided I'll give it a shot.
I agree; I was really looking forward to the fruit of Madara's evolution. The betrayal from Black Zetsu occurred too soon and just kind of left me hanging for what would have been an epic battle. As for Kaguya.... the whole thing just seemed really forced and she did not live up to her legacy. It could have been so much more!!! But, then again, should I really be that surprised?
 

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It was ultra abysmal not to mention how almost everyone became god lvl
 

Trea

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It had so much potential and it turned out so badly. Kaguya had no personality, she barely spoke. It seemed as though BZ did all of her talking and thinking for her. I realize the whole ending was rushed but it was such a waste to not show us Madara's full potential with two rinnegan in favor of making her the final villian.

I realize that all of the dimension hopping was mostly used as a vehicle to redeem Obito, but she was supposed to be the most powerful person of all. She should have had a lot more tricks up her sleeve than we saw. She should have also been able to string a sentence or two together on her own without BZ's help. Both her and Madara were defeated too easily.
 

GinkgoLeaf Girl

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I loved the whole war arc.

I loved the whole series.

Here is my list of important things that happened in the arc, especially during the Kaguya fight.

1.The healing of Kakashi
2.The redemption of Obito
3.The end of 1,000 year cycle of war
4.The birth of a new era
5.The revelation of the NV as a vast and wondrous place
6.The revelation of the history of the era of ninjitsu
7.The revelation of the source of all powers in NV
8.Acceptance of the tailed beasts
9.Team 7 reunited
10.The lesson of teamwork is finally understood
11.The revelation of the source of purpose to IT/Zetsus
12.Naruto achieves his goal of becoming greater then the Hokage, actually greater then all kage
13.Naruto and Sasuke rise to the top of the world, even to the top of their era!
14.The return of the sexy no justu
15. Oh yeah, and the revelation of Kaguya, the source of all chakra, and the terror of her tyranny
16. AAAANNND...Naruto happens to save his best friend and become Hokage, find love and have children
17.Kakashi's generation is not overshadowed by the previous or the next as Kakashi becomes the sixth!
18.Kakashi and Obito become dear friends again
19.Kakashi and Obito team up one last time to help save EVERYONE!!!
20.Rin forgives Obito

Here are some general defense points I have in regards to the end of the series:

1. The structure of the story is a spiral, as the reader is moved to the end of the story it speeds up, just like looking at a whirlpool or spiral. The final fight to redeem friendship was only a few chapters but so intense and then WHAM we're pulled out to the edge of a new cycle in the whirlpool as we meet Bolt and his friends.

2.Kakashi and Obito merging at the end made total sense because of the theme of "two eyes together" and it was only together that they had the skills to create the PS

3.Kaguya was single minded, and corrupt. A moment of compassion when she cries is replaced by her rage. She spent a 1,000 years sealed away and was unable to grow as a person or to even conceive of her actions as wrong. She fit more into the Kakuzu/Hidan camp of villains, very different from the Nagato/Obito/Madara camp of villains.

4.Kaguya and Black Zetsu were not just individuals but also a metaphor of the entire history that Naruto was trying to change.

5.It was more important for Madara to be destroyed by his ambition instead of Naruto. Madara was correct about the hypocrisy of the village system and its love of violence, he had good purpose but he was tainted by the love of his own genius and his lack of trust i.e. his ambition, which is what destroyed him.

6.Love and compassion are shown to be the most important traits of the new era, not power and control.

7. The pairing of N/H and S/S makes total sense. Naruto and Hinata need each other as they are both in need of encouragement and love. Sasuke needs Sakura because she is so forgiving. Sakura does two things: promises a home just like the one he lost and forgives him for going off the rails. Sakura is a healer in all aspects of her life. Both relationships are perfect.

8. When I was going through the war arc week to week I found myself becoming impatient and tired of endless battles. I missed the days of laughing at the bath house, eating Ichiraku ramen, watching Choji eat seven servings of BBQ, Sakura and Ino battling it out for Sasuke, Guy and Lee laughing, crying and working together, Kakashi reading make out tactics and all of the other wonderful village moments that helped all of our favorite characters grow.

At first I was miffed that it was only endless battles, I mean three years of the same damn war arc, how much patience am I supposed to have?!!? But then I realized something; Kishimoto made me miss Konohoa, he made me miss home and made me realize how it might feel during war to long for peace and familiarity. So when chapter 700 finally came out I found myself filled with joy! A rebuilt Konohoa, a new generation and a whole new world filled with computers and a giant city, so cool! I sort of wanted Kishimoto to go through and have 100 chapters of everyone just hanging out, but then I realized, I had imagined most of it. I knew the characters so well I didn't need Kishi to micro manage my experience.

9.The main problem with a series this popular that lasts for as long as it did is that everyone has an idea of how it should end and what it should be, and there is no way for one person and their editors to come up with a solution to match millions of imaginations.

10.The Kaguya arc was not an ending, in fact nothing at the end of Naruto indicated there was an end, it kind of indicated a lot of new avenues that are similar to the avenues discovered in DBZ after DB i.e. aliens and afterlife. What was that castle doing in those weird dimensions? What is everyone doing in the afterlife? Do we really think Kaguya is the only one of her kind? etc. etc.

My feeling is that it will be expanded upon in the mini-series/novels/movies and most likely will develop into a new era story arc in 2016.

Also, as far as retcon, plot no jutsu, deux ex machina, and blah blah blah, I don't buy it. The story has always been about how different ideologies work through different personalities to change cycles, not about the technicality of magic powers, which is always completely improvable because it is not real at all, it is in fact fiction.

I can't logic out fireballs or why certain characters have certain fireballs or magic eyes or whatever, but I can logic out that through the War/Kaguya/Final Fight Arcs that we saw the rise of love, compassion and collaboration overturn a 1,000 years of war and mistrust.

Okay, but I think these themes and links could have been articulated better and in a way that may have been more meaningful and readily received by readers. Lessons of compassion, love and humility are certainly invaluable, but dishing them out the way Kishimoto had with his plot did not seem to do it justice. I just didn't feel like I got the closure I was looking for. Still, a thoughtful and endearing post on your part.
 

SpoilerAlerts

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Bad. It was full of plot holes, retcons, asspulls, and Kaguya was insanely nerfed.

She wasn't nerfed for the sake of naruto and sasuke they needed for the continuation of the future manga the villian needed to be destroyed.

If your saying kaguya should have won you would be a terrible writer having someone who didn't complete his goals etc...

And it wasn't full of plotholes if it was I would like to know what. People say it was bad because madara got one shot by someone stronger far stronger.
 

narutojunky

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Okay, but I think these themes and links could have been articulated better and in a way that may have been more meaningful and readily received by readers. Lessons of compassion, love and humility are certainly invaluable, but dishing them out the way Kishimoto had with his plot did not seem to do it justice. I just didn't feel like I got the closure I was looking for. Still, a thoughtful and endearing post on your part.

I struggled with a sense of closure after finishing chapter 700. How am I supposed to feel after following something for ten years?

As far as the abrupt time skip and ending, I feel o.k. about, in fact pretty good actually. I was glad to be given some ownership over the experience of the characters during the time skip, and I was glad it didn't end up like the end of the lord of the rings movies with some endlessly long self congratulation about how awesome the awesome was. I hated the end of Return of the King and if Kishi would have pulled that kind of ending I think I would be actually upset.

I felt that some of the themes felt rushed or unresolved, and there was so much revealed and then suddenly hidden away. I think the decision to bring in aliens and leave the whole thing unresolved made the Kaguya situation feel rushed, when it was probably a ploy to encourage discussion and to maintain excitement and mystery into the mini-series and whatever future stories if any will come from Naruto.

My main disappointment was that when Naruto goes to meet his fellow Kage that there wasn't any mention of the fate of Amakagure, or that Amakagure hadn't been invited to have a Kage.

The riddle of Amakagure and the rise of Pain are some of the most important questions posed by Kishimoto in the series, and to leave it hanging was a bummer. I hope the Akatsuki novel covers some of what happened there.

It makes me wonder if Naruto will fail in some ways as a Kage, whereas he will always be regarded as the greatest hero, but perhaps just an above average politician...

So long story short, there are things in Naruto that I am disappointed in their lack of resolution.

Overall though I am very happy to have spent the time reading, watching and enjoying Naruto on a level that I would enjoy any good piece of art. ( I'm an artist by trade and professor by paid, so I think art 24/7..)

Even if I was a bit irritated with things not going as perfect as I want, I am still grateful to Kishimoto for taking the time and effort to bring such a wonderful story to the world.

Also, I'm old...I'm almost 35, I have a kid on the way and I can relate to Kishi's desire to write about having kids and that change in perspective from when you're a kid who is trying to make it to being an adult who is trying to cultivate the next generation and help them build their stories of growth, success and joy.

Also, thanks for the post appreciation.
 

iKaras

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This arc being bad is borderline universal law.
 

Your Creepy Stalker

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Some of it was completely uneccecary. Specifically, Naruto vs Sasuke. Oh No, Indra and Ashura are engaged in a pointless war across generations and now Naruto and Sasuke are their reincarnations!

Thats, nice, but the cycle of hatred was allready over at that point, ever since Naruto and Sasuke teamed up to take down Obito.

Because nothing says the final conclusion to the cycle of hatred than Indra's transmigrant getting the power of the bijuu to enhance his susanoo, to then fight against Ashura's transmigrant who retaliates with a **** Tonne of natural energy in a day long battle causing significant damage to the Valley Of The End. Jeeze, why does that sound so familiar to a previous fight that changed nothing?

Also, Kaguya should have had Black Zetsu's lines.
 

GinkgoLeaf Girl

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I struggled with a sense of closure after finishing chapter 700. How am I supposed to feel after following something for ten years?


Yea... It's been apart of my life for about the same time. Sometimes, I think I experience Naruto-withdrawal symptoms lol.

As far as the abrupt time skip and ending, I feel o.k. about, in fact pretty good actually. I was glad to be given some ownership over the experience of the characters during the time skip, and I was glad it didn't end up like the end of the lord of the rings movies with some endlessly long self congratulation about how awesome the awesome was. I hated the end of Return of the King and if Kishi would have pulled that kind of ending I think I would be actually upset.

LOL! I have to agree with this. Two Towers was my favourite part.

I felt that some of the themes felt rushed or unresolved, and there was so much revealed and then suddenly hidden away. I think the decision to bring in aliens and leave the whole thing unresolved made the Kaguya situation feel rushed, when it was probably a ploy to encourage discussion and to maintain excitement and mystery into the mini-series and whatever future stories if any will come from Naruto.

My main disappointment was that when Naruto goes to meet his fellow Kage that there wasn't any mention of the fate of Amakagure, or that Amakagure hadn't been invited to have a Kage.

That's right! I am very curious as to what changes have taken place and how they have impacted the people who reside there. What will become of Ame now? Will the Kages send in resources and support to empower the villagers in rebuilding themselves? What will Ame make of this? Skepticism in receiving the other nations' aid after all these years, to say the least.

The riddle of Amakagure and the rise of Pain are some of the most important questions posed by Kishimoto in the series, and to leave it hanging was a bummer. I hope the Akatsuki novel covers some of what happened there.

It makes me wonder if Naruto will fail in some ways as a Kage, whereas he will always be regarded as the greatest hero, but perhaps just an above average politician...

Hmm, that would be realistic, though I have my doubts. I mean, this is Naruto we're talking about... The character Kishi has made into the all-perfect hero of heroes.

So long story short, there are things in Naruto that I am disappointed in their lack of resolution.

Overall though I am very happy to have spent the time reading, watching and enjoying Naruto on a level that I would enjoy any good piece of art. ( I'm an artist by trade and professor by paid, so I think art 24/7..)

Even if I was a bit irritated with things not going as perfect as I want, I am still grateful to Kishimoto for taking the time and effort to bring such a wonderful story to the world.

Also, I'm old...I'm almost 35, I have a kid on the way and I can relate to Kishi's desire to write about having kids and that change in perspective from when you're a kid who is trying to make it to being an adult who is trying to cultivate the next generation and help them build their stories of growth, success and joy.

Nonsense! 35 is not old! And congratulations!!!
The concept of generativity (part of Erikson's theory of psychosocial development) is an interesting one, where the adult is concerned about giving back to her/his community and guiding the new generation. I think this is another theme of Naruto, for example, the Will of Fire being passed from generation to generation. Although the contexts differ, the spirit and meaning of the Will remains unchanged.

Also, thanks for the post appreciation.
You're welcome; it was well-deserved :)
 

Chikorita

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Reverse Harem Jutsu was probably the best thing out of the whole arc and that's saying something.
 

Omar19992010

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Kaguya Arc was terrible for a number of reasons. First of all Madara was taken out in the worst way ever. Second of all, Kaguya had no personality and it seemed like Black Zetsu was more of a Villain than Kaguya and Three, she has no back story. To this day we barely know anything about Kaguya.

In my Opinion the Whole War-Arc didn't even feel like a War. If Kishi had more Time the Whole Final arc should've went like this

They fight Juubito they defeat him the same way they did in Cannon and capture him, They all go home to their respective Villages and train, Madara gets revived and he collects all the Bijuu and then it continues like it did in Cannon. Naruto and Sasuke get powers from the Sage of Six Paths and then they go fight Madara, then he activates IT and they defeat him. However BZ makes an escape. The Naruto vs Sasuke fight happens and isn't actually rushed and then everything goes on like it happened in the Manga. After all that we have a little Time skip and that's when Kaguya is introduced and expanded on with a full Backstory.
 

DoubleKamui

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It was Darkest Period of the Naruto Manga . I was Actually glad Kaguya got Defeated very fast .

Most of the thing i would say this arc was mostly to Show Obito being a hero and be forgiven for the Price he paid killing Naruto Closest family members and Friends . Kishi Wanted Obito to Shown as Hero rather than a Villain in Readers Mind .

Also it Coincides with the last movie which he was Covering Otsutsuki Arc thinking bringing God like Entity will Surprise the Reader however it was opposite of it . I may remember in last Shonen Jump interview he said he had no idea how to End Madara's Character.
Kishi never intended Obito to become a hero again. Obito's purpose throughout the Kaguya arc was redemption via death. He always follow that formula - he kills off antagonists/villains whose actions cannot be redeemed by other methods. Kishi even labelled him a criminal via his character, directly [ ].

OT: It was decent-good until Obito's forced death. Everything after that was utter shit.
 
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