What is Itachi's Counter to Kamui?

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xxSAGExx

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itchi is solo king he can do whatver he wants #mangafact

Not in Kishimoto manga, Nagato had that crowd long before Itachi was born and died after Itachi so Itachi never got it. It took KM Naruto (1/13th the power tho), 8 tails Bee, and Edo Itachi to fight a controlled Nagato with low mobility while KM Naruto with 1/13th the power was fighting evenly with Itachi in close combat and Bee fighting Itachi just fine himself.

one word

AMATIRASU

Which was used on Obito and didn't kill him...

Izanami would work just fine.

Too bad Itachi stated it's not a jutsu that could be use in battle and we saw that by him receiving fatal blows from Kabuto. Also Obito knows all Uchiha jutsus thanks to Madara training him so he would know how to break out of it or even prevent it from being completed by changing how he reacts since Itachi have to create the same actions over again and alive Itachi can't push himself due to his illness and the fact that he was only alive due to medicine.

Obito needs to be tangible in order to grab Itachi. When he touches Itachi, he splits into dozens of clones, blitzes Obito from behind like Minato with Totsuka and seals him forever.

Too bad Itachi have no knowledge how Kamui works and even Sharingan users like Kakashi and Sasuke who are both smart, couldn't figure out how it worked on their first encounter with Obito. Only Minato ever solely figured it out with no intel in battle while Fu and Torune had intel about Obito being able to go intangible from Kakashi and Yamato's report. Obito have faster reaction speed than Itachi could attack as shown when he fights multiple opponents. Also Obito will see thru Itachi's clones since it's the Byakugan that can't see through clones while the Sharingan can see through ninjutsus, taijutsus, and genjutsus.

What if Obito used his Fire jutsu which is on Madara level and much stronger than what Sasuke and Itachi ever showcased? Itachi would have to use Amaterasu but that cause him pain, makes him more blind and lose a lot of chakra. Genjutsus won't work, Obito with just 3 tomoes controlled Kurama when Sasuke and Itachi said they need the MS for such a feat so Obito's mastery of his Sharingan is enough to see and break any genjutsu Itachi has especially since he also have his own MS and have many more years of experiences using it.

Going by what we've seen in the manga, Itachi has the speed/reflexes to possibly counter being wrapped.

No he doesn't haha Obito got Minato, the fastest ninja in the manga, and Minato only got away by FTG. Once Obito have his hands on a target, he will absorb them and the only ones who prevented this are Minato with FTG, Konan by having full intel on Kamui and have preparations beforehand, and when he fought more than one opponents who could attack as Obito is about to absorb with intel as well. Minato said Kamui was better than his FTG which was only seconds faster than Kamui when they first fought so no Itachi's speed isn't close to being able to not get caught; he would need speed equal to or greater than A's who would have the speed to prevent being absorbed.

A shadow clone. Dudes pretty quick when it comes to making shadow clones.

Sharingan will see which one is real and nothing stopping him from making clones himself or using his fire jutsu which is on Madara level and much larger and stronger than any normal katon Itachi or Sasuke ever used .

He would just use itachi neutralizer on obito and totsuka Blitz him

In other words : he wins neg diff U_U

And when Itachi breaks out of that genjutsu, the real fight will begin and he will most likely lose.

Not really. During Obito's altercation with Gai, he was able to prevent Obito from wrapping him due to his hand speed/reflexes. It really only takes, 1) Intel, 2) OP reaction speed and 3) the ability to accurately counter...consistently.

Itachi has shown precise react speed, even if you consider his altercation w/ Kabuto. Having no prior knowledge had the speed/reflexes fast enough to cover Sasuke w/ susnaoo.

That was still a 4 on 1 fight which means Obito's attention couldn't really be solely on one person since he would need to make sure no one is attacking from different angles and Itachi have no intel on Kamui at all so that wouldn't be an issue. Sasuke couldn't figure out how Kamui worked when he tried using chidori on him, Kakashi with team Kakashi and team Yamato (Kurenia's team) couldn't figure out Kamui with his Sharingan and they also had a Byakugan user as well and was attacking Obito as a team. Kakashi only figured out how Kamui worked when he Kamui his kunai so it didn't hit Naruto and it ends up hitting Obito in the other dimension. So 2 Sharingan users who are smart and analyzers couldn't figure out Kamui with their brain and eyes alone, only Minato ever did that and Minato's smarts is highly hyped by those who knew him.

Itachi on the other hand can't push his body since his illness will kill him; he didn't receive much heavy blows from Sasuke at all really, just a stab wound on his leg really but Itachi's body started to fail him in the fight due to Itachi using his MS jutsus which does physical damage or pain on him. Susanoo being the most painful as Sasuke said it ached every cell in his body and wondered how Itachi much have felt. It also uses both eyes which make the eyes blind faster. There's a reason Itachi relies on Genjutsus; he's a pacifist and can't handle full on battles with his illness.

I do agree, that was his fastest wrapping feat. However, we didn't know his prior location and this doesn't change the fact that he has to materialize before wrapping his opponent.


As Obito states, "the sharingan can read moves" regardless of ones speed, it really all depends on the users speed/ability to physically react.


Gai demonstrated something Itachi could very well do here that's preventing Obito from wrapping him, by striking faster than he could wrap.


Considering all that, I believe Itschi could counter a kamui

Thing is the Sharingan can't tell when Obito is using his Kamui since Sasuke and Kakashi couldn't tell how Kamui worked or when Obito was using it, Hinata couldn't even do this and Byakugans have better insight than the Sharingan. Itachi does not have weapons that Gai had in that scan, Gai had weapons that extended his reach and used it to help him keep his body a good distant away and to make sure Obito didn't grab him when he tried kicking him. The only weapon Itachi ever shown is shurikens and Kunais while Obito can go thru Itachi's weapons, shoot giant shurikens from his Kamui and use those as his own weapons.

Itachi lack knowledge on how Kamui works so wouldn't be doing what Gai was doing either. Itachi usually use Genjutsus but those won't work here so using ninjutsus and taijutsus is what he would do; he wouldn't start off using a MS jutsu since the side effects are too great (pain, more blind, cost lot of chakra). All it would take is for them to go into a taijutsu fight and Obito just need to grab him when blocking or attacking and it's over. Obito can even cause Itachi to use Amaterasu by using his fire jutsu which is above Itachi's normal fire jutsus as Sasuke did when his fire jutsu overwhelmed Itachi's. Itachi then had to close his eyes afterwards since Amaterasu is casted where Itachi is looking and it cause strain on his eye.

If Itachi use Susanoo, Obito literally have to do nothing but defend while Susanoo kills Itachi, Susanoo is what killed Itachi in the manga after Itachi used 1 Tsukuyomi, 2 Amaterasu, 1 Susanoo. Susanoo is stated to ache ever cell in the body (Sasuke stated this) so the longer Itachi is in Susanoo, the more damage he will get and his body is already weak which is why he needed medicine just to prolong his life as Obito stated. Obito knows about Itachi's illness and will use that against Itachi and can just push Itachi into using Susanoo and/or Amaterasu. Obito has the chakra, stamina, and power to do this while Itachi doesn't have the chakra or health to last long.

Sharingan can't distinguish between shadow Clones bro

Then how did Kakashi know Itachi's clone was a clone in part 1? Itachi even said he noticed Kakashi's clone too late in Shippuden when they fought. Sharingans can see through Ninjutsus, taijutsus, and Genjutsus so yes it can see through them. It's the Byakugan which can't distinguish clones since the chakra is split evenly amongst the clones and original.
 

XY iNVeRSe

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That was only in the anime. You can look it up. In the anime Sasuke said "thanks to the Sharingan I knew who the real you was all along." And this statement contradicted the manga. You can look it up....

I'll bring scans. Well links.
 

Demonic.

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I'll bring scans. Well links.

Do it.


In Naruto episode 129, Sasuke Uchiha claims that the Sharingan can distinguish clones from the original. This contradicts the manga and other anime episodes.

naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow_Clone_Technique
 

DimiR98

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I think that itachi would be able to counter obito`s kamui with izanami or izanagi and tsukoyomi combo
 

HiddenSound

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Do it.


In Naruto episode 129, Sasuke Uchiha claims that the Sharingan can distinguish clones from the original. This contradicts the manga and other anime episodes.

naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow_Clone_Technique

Where in the manga does it say that? And was it talking about a Senju DNA-enhanced Mangekyō Sharingan, or a normal Sharingan?
I think that itachi would be able to counter obito`s kamui with izanami or izanagi and tsukoyomi combo

As I've said before, Izanami takes too long to use in a fight and it is not a counter to Kamui.
 

Demonic.

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Where in the manga does it say that? And was it talking about a Senju DNA-enhanced Mangekyō Sharingan, or a normal Sharingan?


As I've said before, Izanami takes too long to use in a fight and it is not a counter to Kamui.
Dude I gave you proof and you're still in denial -_-
 

Demonic.

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You gave me proof? Do you call quoting a wiki proof? lol

It has to be checked before it is uploaded. If you read the manga you would have gotten all the clues that point to the Sharingan not being able to distinguish between shadow clones. Which is exactly what that page is talking about. As if that weren't enough, killer Bee managed to trick a Sasuke with the Mangekyo Sharingan activated when he used the substitution jutsu with the tentacle combined with a shadow clone or a transformation or whatever the hell that thing was. You still want to argue and say Sharingan can distinguish shadow clones?
 

XY iNVeRSe

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So many Itachi threads. Even after being gone for over a hundred chapters.. is this what the base is all about? Quite boring.
 

xxSAGExx

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That was only in the anime. You can look it up. In the anime Sasuke said "thanks to the Sharingan I knew who the real you was all along." And this statement contradicted the manga. You can look it up....

Nope, Manga says the Sharingan can read and defeat Nin/Tai/Genjutsus as Sasuke said it himself . What did Sasuke say about fighting Lee? "Ninjutsu or taijutsu.... I'll reveal it...." .

It's a fact Sharingan can't distinguish shadow clones. Itachi's failed to recognize Kakashi's. When Kakashi distinguished Itachi's clone in part 1 obviously it wasn't due to the Sharingan, Kakashi used his intelligence to predict it was a shadow clone.

Is that why Kakashi copied Zabuza's water clone jutsu and had his clone attack Zabuza's clone? . What did Lee say to Sasuke? "They say the Sharingan has the ability to reveal all types of Nin-Gen-Taijutsus..." . Shadow clone is a ninjutsu and is not a KKG so yes the Sharingan can see through it as manga facts says it can see thru ninjutsus.

Kakashi only knew it was a clone because of the Sharingan, Itachi praised Kakashi use of the Sharingan right before the attack and that's why Kakashi used a water clone and . Kakashi used the Sharingan to know it was a clone by seeing it, he's not going to be using any "intelligence" to predict anything like that when he haven't seen Itachi in 6-7 years and Kakashi never shown this "intelligence" to predict Naruto use of clones when Naruto is the unpredictable ninja which Kakashi called him since part 1.

This is why Itachi goes on to say Kakashi is not a Uchiha by blood . In Shippuden, Kakashi had his clone attack from underground which didn't give Itachi enough time to see thru the ninjutsu before casting his genjutsu but he knew it was a clone after .
 

HiddenSound

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It has to be checked before it is uploaded. If you read the manga you would have gotten all the clues that point to the Sharingan not being able to distinguish between shadow clones. Which is exactly what that page is talking about. As if that weren't enough, killer Bee managed to trick a Sasuke with the Mangekyo Sharingan activated when he used the substitution jutsu with the tentacle combined with a shadow clone or a transformation or whatever the hell that thing was. You still want to argue and say Sharingan can distinguish shadow clones?
You give me someone else's interpretation of a page you can't give that just so happens to suit your argument and expect me to just say okay? No. I would like to see the page.
Sasuke's Mangekyō is not Obito's Mangekyō. Their eyes are not the same.
Do you have proof Obito CAN distinguish them? No? Too bad.

If you read the thread you'd know that Obito's eye in the hands of an inferior user already saw through Itachi's Explosive Clone in Part 1. But nice try.
 
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tanmoydas1992

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Those who are thinking obitos kamui cant be countered is absolutely right. Obitos MS is most useful MS that makes all physical attacks useless. Bt if u see how intelligent he is like the time placing amaterasu on sasukes eye that forced obito to use izanagi. Or when he found out chibaku tensei's weakness. Its not his amaterasu, tsukyomi, sword and mirror makes him strong but his analytical power to find out weakness of a jutsu.
So itachi will make clone keep obito busy and blindfold him and amaterasu him.
Besides he can sacrifice a eye to put obito on izanamis infinite loops just like kabuto coz obito also lived his life in lies and falsehood and didnt accept who he was. And when obito come out he will be a whole different person and no reason to fight.
 
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xxSAGExx

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Do it.


In Naruto episode 129, Sasuke Uchiha claims that the Sharingan can distinguish clones from the original. This contradicts the manga and other anime episodes.

naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow_Clone_Technique

Manga states the Sharingan can read and reveal Nin/Gen/Taijutsu so no it's not contradicting anything by what you're are saying. Sasuke said it here . Sasuke said his Sharingan will reveal ninjutsus or Genjutsus and Lee also said it's said that the Sharingan can reveal Nin/Gen/Tai .

Shadow clone is a Ninjutsu so it can be read and see thru like other jutsus aside KKG. It's the Byakugan that can't see thru shadow clones since it see the chakra net work and Naruto evenly split his chakra with them . Sharingan sees thru jutsus so it can see thru clones unless you're saying Shadow clone is not a Nin/Gen/Taijutsu then it's you who is contradicting the manga.

As for your wiki link, I read it and it said "Doujutsu" when it was only mentioned by Neji who doesn't have the Sharingan nor is capble of Sharingan's ability to read and see thru jutsus. The Byakugan can see chakra net work, extend their vision range to 50+ meter, and see near 360 around their body which the Sharingan cannot. Don't say the Sharingan can't do what a Byakugan user said he can't do when both have their own abilities.

It has to be checked before it is uploaded. If you read the manga you would have gotten all the clues that point to the Sharingan not being able to distinguish between shadow clones. Which is exactly what that page is talking about. As if that weren't enough, killer Bee managed to trick a Sasuke with the Mangekyo Sharingan activated when he used the substitution jutsu with the tentacle combined with a shadow clone or a transformation or whatever the hell that thing was. You still want to argue and say Sharingan can distinguish shadow clones?

You do know Sasuke was in pain from using Amaterasu and only activated it with the sole purpose of putting it out and shows Sasuke turning off his Sharingan from the pain of using Amaterasu and had it off when they had Bee. Manga states the Sharingan can read/reveal ninjutsu/genjutsu/taijutsu and Shadow clone is a ninjutsu.
 

WalksInShadows

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In the 5 Kages Summit arc, Onoki launched a Jinton at Sasuke. The cube enveloped Sasuke. Obito teleported inside the cube, grabbed Sasuke, then teleported away before Jinton exploded. Obito is faster.
. One can argue that this happened in basically the same amount of time it took for Obito to snatch Sasuke from that Jinton tech.

Yes, it is an awful argument. Just because Kamui hasn't killed anyone important means anyone can avoid it? By that logic, Jiraiya won't be killed by Amaterasu because Amaterasu hasn't killed anyone important.
as a matter of fact, .

You talked about Kamui used by Kakashi for the first time in the series. He has become more experienced...
Besides, I'm talking about Obito's Kamui, the one Itachi absolutely cannot defend against.
both of those Kamui worked the same way in regards to needing the target to be relatively stationary long enough to focus the jutsu on them. Why do you think Itachi is just going to stand still and let himself get sniped? The bottom line is, the exp one has with the jutsu is negligible because the song remains the same: if the target isn't moving in a predictable moving pattern like Deidara initially was, a Kamui snipe is not happening.
Obito already has info on itachi's entire move set and jutsu!
and that's been shown in the story.....when?


That was only in the anime. You can look it up. In the anime Sasuke said "thanks to the Sharingan I knew who the real you was all along." And this statement contradicted the manga. You can look it up....

Do it.


In Naruto episode 129, Sasuke Uchiha claims that the Sharingan can distinguish clones from the original. This contradicts the manga and other anime episodes.

naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow_Clone_Technique
.
 
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HiddenSound

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. One can argue that this happened in basically the same amount of time it took for Obito to snatch Sasuke from that Jinton tech.

as a matter of fact, .

both of those Kamui worked the same way in regards to needing the target to be relatively stationary long enough to focus the jutsu on them. Why do you think Itachi is just going to stand still and let himself get sniped? The bottom line is, the exp one has with the jutsu is negligible because the song remains the same: if the target isn't moving in a predictable moving pattern like Deidara initially was, a Kamui snipe is not happening.
and that's been shown in the story.....when?




.

Not as impressive.

While Jiraiya is lit up by Amaterasu you think he's going to cast a fire sealing Jutsu? Well that's neither here nor there in any case.

With Tobi's Kamui, doesn't matter if the target is stationary. What matters is if Tobi lays a hand on them. No Space/Time Ninjutsu, no counter.
And with Kakashi, he sniped the Gedo Mazo's whole right arm off as soon as Madara summoned it from Obito. Kakashi improved.
 

xxSAGExx

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Those who are thinking obitos kamui cant be countered is absolutely right. Obitos MS is most useful MS that makes all physical attacks useless. Bt if u see how intelligent he is like the time placing amaterasu on sasukes eye that forced obito to use izanagi. Or when he found out chibaku tensei's weakness. Its not his amaterasu, tsukyomi, sword and mirror makes him strong but his analytical power to find out weakness of a jutsu.
So itachi will make clone keep obito busy and blindfold him and amaterasu him.
Besides he can sacrifice a eye to put obito on izanamis infinite loops just like kabuto coz obito also lived his life in lies and falsehood and didnt accept who he was. And when obito come out he will be a whole different person and no reason to fight.

It never said Obito used Izanagi, Obito can warp whatever he's touching so he can Kamui the Amaterasu away as he did to the explosion Konan caused. I'll give you the C.T feat but that's no where near Kamui in terms of figuring it out since it has more than one description of weaknesses such as: can only be intangible for 5 minutes, need to be physical to attack, that he can warp someone by grabbing them, and you can hit him from the other side if you have someone who can attack him from the other dimension.

Izanami wouldn't work on Obito since unlike Kabuto, Obito wasn't defining himself by adding others to himself. He knows full well that he is Obito Uchiha and not Madara, he simply used Madara name to bring fear into people which Tsunade actually says when they found out the Mask man wasn't Madara when they found out Edo Madara was revived. Obito would say he's "no one" because they were asking him who he was when they found out he wasn't Madara and he didn't feel like saying who he was. Kabuto on the other hand tried defining himself by what he added to himself and this is why Itachi told Kabuto that it's ok if you want to mimic a person you admire but he isn't that person, he isn't Orochimaru. Obito never claimed to fully be Madara for the sake of wanting to be Madara, he simply used the name to get things done since the name already had fear to it . Also Itachi stated that it wasn't a jutsu that could be use in real combat (leave him open to fatal blows as shown with Edo Itachi)

To find out about Obito's Kamui, which Itachi doesn't even know Obito have or that Tobi is Obito and not Madara, he would have to first fight him by trying to hit him with attacks or getting in close with Taijutsu. Now lets look at Itachi's fighting style as he against Sasuke. Against Sasuke, Itachi was using genjutsu for the start of the fight then they started to fight with thrown weapons and . Then they got in close where Sasuke and Itachi grabbed each other this is all Obito need to Warp Itachi mind you. Itachi made a Shadow clone which attacked Sasuke from behind Itachi ( ) but Obito showed that he can warp very fast as he shown to warp Sakura when Madara threw a blade at her.

In Itachi's other fights, he relied solely on Genjutsus at most but that wouldn't stop another Uchiha as shown with Sasuke. Itachi was already going blind so his vision would be as it was when he was fighting Sasuke and (a little better than that since that's after using Tsukuyomi). He also have poor health and can't stay in a fight that long due to dying if he push his body too far, he died from the intense pain of Susanoo, not from any attack Sasuke hit him with. Susanoo aches every cell in Sasuke's body and he even wondered how bad Itachi must have felt . Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi also cause Itachi pain as well as costing him a lot of chakra per use and weakening his vision as well.

Obito knows about Itachi's illness and he's is the one who told Sasuke and us about Itachi being sick. Itachi felt his own death approaching . Itachi's body is really weak and he can't push himself too far without feeling the consequences which he did when he used 1 Tsukuyomi, 2 Amaterasu and then Susanoo after but Susanoo causes him the greatest pain, amount of chakra, and weaken his vision worst since it uses both eyes while the other two uses only one each . Obito knows all of this and is smart enough to push Itachi to the point of having him need Susanoo up which would be killing Itachi. He can use his fire jutsu which is much stronger and larger than anything Sasuke and Itachi ever shown and make Itachi use either Amaterasu or Susanoo to defend .
 

WalksInShadows

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Obito already has info on itachi's entire move set and jutsu!


Itachi has no counter for kamui, sure he can use crow clones and etc to try and trick obito but if kamui hits him, it's over!

That was only in the anime. You can look it up. In the anime Sasuke said "thanks to the Sharingan I knew who the real you was all along." And this statement contradicted the manga. You can look it up....

Do it.


In Naruto episode 129, Sasuke Uchiha claims that the Sharingan can distinguish clones from the original. This contradicts the manga and other anime episodes.

naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow_Clone_Technique

In the 5 Kages Summit arc, Onoki launched a Jinton at Sasuke. The cube enveloped Sasuke. Obito teleported inside the cube, grabbed Sasuke, then teleported away before Jinton exploded. Obito is faster.

Yes, it is an awful argument. Just because Kamui hasn't killed anyone important means anyone can avoid it? By that logic, Jiraiya won't be killed by Amaterasu because Amaterasu hasn't killed anyone important.

You talked about Kamui used by Kakashi for the first time in the series. He has become more experienced...
Besides, I'm talking about Obito's Kamui, the one Itachi absolutely cannot defend against.


No, he doesn't.


Read the manga.

With Tobi's Kamui, doesn't matter if the target is stationary. What matters is if Tobi lays a hand on them. No Space/Time Ninjutsu, no counter.
in basically every time he attempted to Kamui snipe someone, he either had to be able to precisely focus on their movement or he had to grab someone first. Regardless, it is an absolute must that he is solid if he is going to do anything, even use Kamui:

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And with Kakashi, he sniped the Gedo Mazo's whole right arm off as soon as Madara summoned it from Obito. Kakashi improved.
and it was stationary. Not seeing how this disproves my point.
 

HiddenSound

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in basically every time he attempted to Kamui snipe someone, he either had to be able to precisely focus on their movement or he had to grab someone first. Regardless, it is an absolute must that he is solid if he is going to do anything, even use Kamui:

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and it was stationary. Not seeing how this disproves my point.

Whether it was stationary or not is irrelevant. The Kamui was immediate.
 
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