What is a "generic villain"?

[Shadow Phantasm]

Lol a villian is just someone that opposes the main characters goals.
So Madara/Sasuke/Nagato/Orochimaru, etc are villians of naruto as they oppose narutos goal to become a hokage. If kiba actually decides to challenge naruto for kage then he is a villian as well...

on the flip side

if the manga was named madara and he was the main character naruto/sasuke/kakashi/eventually obito would be villians...

Actually the correct term is antagonist,a villain does'nt have to oppose the protoganist in order to be considered one.

 

[chaos control]

It's weak and recycled. Madara's change was SO sudden.

It was a stitched on reason as an excuse for a power-hungry arrogant villain. He's a walking contradiction. A pacifist 'hero' that wants to save the world but also a power-hungry fetishtic nut who loves to fight? ummmmmmmmmm.

He never claimed to be pacifist. He just wanted peace. Goku likes to fight too, but he likes peace. Madara is just similar to Goku in that way.

Also, it is hypocritical to call Madara and other villains with ideology recycled when there have been 1000 times more villains in literature like Orochimaru and Frieza who just want to either destroy or rule a place for no reason. "Pure evil" is more weak and recycled than the Madara type villains are.

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

He never claimed to be pacifist. He just wanted peace. Goku likes to fight too, but he likes peace. Madara is just similar to Goku in that way.

Also, it is hypocritical to call Madara and other villains with ideology recycled when there have been 1000 times more villains in literature like Orochimaru and Frieza who just want to either destroy or rule a place for no reason. "Pure evil" is more weak and recycled than the Madara type villains are.

You really think Madara is someone who'd enjoy peace?

Orochimaru is naturally twisted, i'm no die-hard fanboy but there's clearly something disturbing in that childhood and the fascination with the snake that is greatly and subtly creepy and underplayed. Frieza? That's generic DBZ- the most archetypal anime there is. He's a mary sue.

 

[chaos control]

Solo'd

Maddy is a Villain God-Mode Sue the heroes needed deux ex machina(sage powers) to beat him

Obito is a villain sympathetic sue. Neither of the two are ground breaking...both are according to tvtropes quite generic.

Freeza is the same as maddy the deux ex machina would be SSJ

So then according to your logic, every villain would be generic due to fitting into one of the categories on that page. Orochimaru (who everyone seems to think is so great) is no different from Freiza. He just wanted to crush Konoha and obtain power. Nothing more. The only difference is that he is not as strong.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

I consider a villain generic if their reasons for doing bad things are flimsy at best,Madara for one is what I consider to be the typical shounen generic villain.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

He never claimed to be pacifist. He just wanted peace. Goku likes to fight too, but he likes peace. Madara is just similar to Goku in that way.

Also, it is hypocritical to call Madara and other villains with ideology recycled when there have been 1000 times more villains in literature like Orochimaru and Frieza who just want to either destroy or rule a place for no reason. "Pure evil" is more weak and recycled than the Madara type villains are.

Madara is a walking contradiction,he claims to want peace yet his blood boils when crushing skulls?Sorry but that sounds like a warhawk who got deluded into thinking he can make the world the way it should be in his opinion.

 

[antirulez]

lame orochimaru ?
/thread

 

[chaos control]

You really think Madara is someone who'd enjoy peace?

Orochimaru is naturally twisted, i'm no die-hard fanboy but there's clearly something disturbing in that childhood and the fascination with the snake that is greatly and subtly creepy and underplayed. Frieza? That's generic DBZ- the most archetypal anime there is. He's a mary sue.

Madara just created peace just now. Yes I think Madara would enjoy peace. He'd just fight for fun like Goku does. He'd probably just make an effort to establish a ninjas world tournament like the one in revolution.

As for Orochimaru's fascination with snakes, there are actually people in the real world who both study and like snakes like that. Your statement that there was something creepy and disturbing in his childhood is just speculation until further manga evidence. Therefore Orochimaru is not in the slightest bit special or different from any other "generic villain".

 

[chaos control]

Madara is a walking contradiction,he claims to want peace yet his blood boils when crushing skulls?Sorry but that sounds like a warhawk who got deluded into thinking he can make the world the way it should be in his opinion.

It just means that he likes to fight (like Goku).

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

There's a difference between loving to fight and getting a sick pleasure from it,Madara is what is commonly known as a Blood Knight.People like that get off from fighting and bloodshed,not exactly the type who would want a peaceful world with no fighting.

 

[chaos control]

There's a difference between loving to fight and getting a sick pleasure from it,Madara is what is commonly known as a Blood Knight.People like that get off from fighting and bloodshed,not exactly the type who would want a peaceful world with no fighting.

He would just establish a ninjas world tournament like the one in revolution.

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

It just means that he likes to fight (like Goku).

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I never saw Goku like this. His lust for it is fetishistic.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

So then according to your logic, every villain would be generic due to fitting into one of the categories on that page. Orochimaru (who everyone seems to think is so great) is no different from Freiza. He just wanted to crush Konoha and obtain power. Nothing more. The only difference is that he is not as strong.

Nope. Those are the two most common tropes. Hence why they're mentioned in the paragraph explaining the trope and not the list encompassing it.

Oro wants to know everything. Acquire all the knowledge in the world. Destroying the leaf was only a whim.

 

[Bronze]

Madara left Konoha, because he felt hopeless when he found out the truth [

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]. He believed that through power and force, real peace can be achieved. Hashirama's version was unrealistic. That is why he plotted the project of the Eye Moon. Other reasons, was because he had been constantly hated by his clan and discriminated by Tobirama. Not to mention, his tragic backstory.

Generic villain is simply the one who does things for no proper reasons. Such as: Joker, DBZ villains, etc.​

 

[MinaButt]

Madara is not evil for the lulz. He is not even evil. He gave everyone their dreams.

Also, what do you see in Orochimaru? He is crap! He always fails! Always!!! Destruction of Konoha: fail. Get Itachi's body: fail. Get Sasuke's body: fail Get every jutsu in the world: fail in that he only ever uses snakes, mud clones, edo tensei and that wind jutsu. He gets beat the crap out of in every fight he gets in.

How is this fun to watch?

Watching Oro do his thing whether he's succeeding or not is way more entertaining than that hypocritical Aizen clone 1shotting everything in sight.

 

[awesomeseimei]

So, you only classify villains by their strength and success? That's actually pretty shallow. I mean, there are villains who are strong and epic but aren't successful due to plot, especially if they are secondary ones, and are only featured in a short story (like a single movie) where there is no room for them to first succeed, and then be defeated.

I'd say I classify villains by their personality type and goals: there are chaos incarnates who do evil for the sake of doing evil, there are well-intentioned smart ones who believe that they are "doing the right thing" until the end, there are power-hungry ones who want to rule everything, or calculating maniacs who are just twisted and do their thing regardless of others... Et cetera, and I must say you can have a boring villain and an interesting one for every category. "Generic" simply means there is nothing else to the character besides those rough outlines I mentioned. I mean, sometimes you are watching a movie and you can basically predict every single move or even phrase of a villain - this is what I' call generic.

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

Madara left Konoha, because he felt hopeless when he found out the truth [

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]. He believed that through power and force, real peace can be achieved. Hashirama's version was unrealistic. That is why he plotted the project of the Eye Moon. Other reasons, was because he had been constantly hated by his clan and discriminated by Tobirama. Not to mention, his tragic backstory.

Generic villain is simply the one who does things for no proper reasons. Such as: Joker, DBZ villains, etc.​

Not true. A generic villain is one that fits way too comfortably in the villain archetype and doesn't try to challenge it at all. Read up on your Vladimir Propp theory buddy.

Joker for example is not a generic villain. He doesn't have any real goal as such, just the pleasure that comes with 'anarchy'. It's a simple goal but that doesn't make him generic, because the goal and the motivation is heavily explored in countless storylines and comics.

common overlap is the God-Mode Sue, with a ridiculous power level, forcing the heroes to hold the Idiot Ball, and/or requiring Deus ex Machina in order for the protagonists to stand a chance of defeating them. This is the type that generally shows up in canon. It can overlap with other types, such as Jerk Sue, as well, but it never overlaps with Purity Sue (although they might become one after the Heel-Face Turn, once the plot forgets everything evil about them).

Generic goals are: 'ambiguous world peace', money, fame, power of some kind

Hell we never saw Madara's connection to the Tsuki no Me, we never saw why THIS would be his logical solution or would be his perfect way out of reality. If anything Madara is a king, he seems like someone strongly grounded in reality. He had this Tsuki no Me plan half-heartedly assigned to him because that was the Akatsuki's and obito's goal.

 

[Bronze]

Not true. A generic villain is one that fits way too comfortably in the villain archetype and doesn't try to challenge it at all. Read up on your Vladimir Propp theory buddy.

Joker for example is not a generic villain. He doesn't have any real goal as such, just the pleasure that comes with 'anarchy'. It's a simple goal but that doesn't make him generic, because the goal and the motivation is heavily explored in countless storylines and comics.

common overlap is the God-Mode Sue, with a ridiculous power level, forcing the heroes to hold the Idiot Ball, and/or requiring Deus ex Machina in order for the protagonists to stand a chance of defeating them. This is the type that generally shows up in canon. It can overlap with other types, such as Jerk Sue, as well, but it never overlaps with Purity Sue (although they might become one after the Heel-Face Turn, once the plot forgets everything evil about them).

Generic goals are: 'ambiguous world peace', money, fame, power of some kind

Hell we never saw Madara's connection to the Tsuki no Me, we never saw why THIS would be his logical solution or would be his perfect way out of reality. If anything Madara is a king, he seems like someone strongly grounded in reality. He had this Tsuki no Me plan half-heartedly assigned to him because that was the Akatsuki's and obito's goal.

Not bothering with what you wrote down above. As for below, [

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]. He assigned the plan to Obito and Akatsuki, because he could no longer work on the plan himself. He was old and crippled. The fact that Madara's motivations are so better than any villain in this story is because he doesn't get changed by a mere boy. He strongly believes that it will save humanity.​

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

Not bothering with what you wrote down above. As for below, [

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]. He assigned the plan to Obito and Akatsuki, because he could no longer work on the plan himself. He was old and crippled. The fact that Madara's motivations are so better than any villain in this story is because he doesn't get changed by a mere boy. He strongly believes that it will save humanity.​

A detail that was added onto the story after. You speak about the plot in story order not chronological order as if Madara's story was contemplated way before the Akatsuki's were. There is no foundation for him to see this as his route out.

If you can't be bothered to read my responses then I wont' be bothered to read yours.

 

[Bronze]

A detail that was added onto the story after. You speak about the plot in story order not chronological order as if Madara's story was contemplated way before the Akatsuki's were. There is no foundation for him to see this as his route out.

If you can't be bothered to read my responses then I wont' be bothered to read yours.

[

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] [

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] [

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]. Try not to deny the manga for your personal nonsense.

Is that why you replied first?​