[Debate] what do u think about this guy?

????

  • He was Hero

    Votes: 6 40.0%
  • He was Murderer

    Votes: 1 6.7%
  • I have no idea who is this guy :X :X :X

    Votes: 8 53.3%

  • Total voters
    15

Red Slayer

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Che Guevara
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[video=youtube;-agiAnRYrrU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-agiAnRYrrU[/video]

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Was He Hero(like some plp say) or was he murderer?
 

Tobi98

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I find it ironic that someone who fought against capitalism is now being used by clothing companies to sell their shirts...
 
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Aim64C

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[video=youtube;tkaxekY2Hqg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkaxekY2Hqg[/video]

Revolutions, and attempts at them, simply are what they are. They are messy.

The only redeeming factor to a revolution is what it attempts to establish. As such, I would have to say that Che Guevara should be evaluated largely on what it was he hoped to establish before one begins to look at whether or not his means were justified.
 

BlacLord™

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I feel like he started off on the right track but as time progressed... he got caught up in the rush of it all and it drove him to make bad choices and to choose coarse approaches to going about his revolution. Indeed, he lost track of himself.

I suppose it depends on whether you judge him on his intentions or the end result. It is said that you should stay true to the apex of a person or idea because that is the truest way to be... but life changes people and not always for the better and sometimes those changes aren't ad interim​.
 
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Azu

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I think that he was looking for the better world.

But, what he wished for and the things he did for it were quite different. One friend of mine who respects him as a symbol of rebellion says that revolution ate him, just like every revolution eats its kids.
 
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I say he was a great man who was just trying to make the world a better place for everyone and got lost on the way reminds me a lot of Huey P. Newton another great revolutionary you should look up the book Revolutionary Suicide it explains a lot about why revolutionaries do what they do.
 

Retro Chaos

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Ah, the man who is on many t-shirts worn by angst teenagers. He was a fine man, a true humanist. Having said this, communism does not work and so I do not agree with his political views.

In any case, I am not too familiar with him as I have not really studied the Cuban revolution.
 

Aim64C

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Expanding on my previous post:

The fundamental problem that I see with many communist revolutionaries is that the revolution never truly ends. Capitalism is the notion that an individual inherently owns what he or she produces. The flaw in the thinking of communists is the idea that the product of a factory is the product of the individuals that work at the factory.

The product of the individual is a service contract.

Allow me to explain:

[video=youtube;Vz3eOb6Yl1s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz3eOb6Yl1s[/video]

The flaw in the ideology is failing to realize that workers are marketing their labor in a factory as a service. The service is a product with its own respective value that is established by cost of living, supply/demand, and the relative value of the position to the operation of the factory.

The improved efficiency of production results in a decreased market value of each individual good and therefor leads to cost deflation - which means improved quality of life for all, regardless of economic status.

The question is really very simple - if employers only paid people 'little more than what they need to survive' - then why does a welder receive a higher pay than the manual labor staff? And why would a factory pay higher wages (in a non-union environment) than the restaurant down town (as high as 3x the wages prior to minimum wage hikes)?

The answer is that these positions are A) harder to fill with reliable employees and B) are critical-enough to the production process that suitably skilled employees will not entertain the 'opportunity' to work for wages that strain their quality of life - particularly since plenty of other businesses have openings for such trades and are willing to bid -up- wages to get the employee.

Economics aside -

The reality is that communist revolutions never end. When the communist group gains power, it becomes a witch-hunt to keep 'greedy' people from having ownership of the system.... of course, the problem is that those who attempt to maintain the 'lack of ownership' end up effectively owning the system.

So the end result is a political oligarchy that controls the economy of the nation. Which is little different from the problem that communism first set out to resolve.

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As such, the only real motivation for the revolution was control over the economic system.

Despite the fact that there was an allegedly good intent behind the revolution - the fact of the matter is that it boils down to control over the efforts of others. Che wanted to control people by denying them the concept of owning their products/service - which is precisely the same thing Marxists believe Capitalism does.

Thus, despite the words that are uttered by any Marxist, at the core of their reasoning is selfish ignorance.

Which is precisely why such revolutionaries are consumed by their revolution. To them, the ends always justify the means and those are the people they surround themselves with.

In the end, the ***** of Babylon is consumed by the Beast.

Prophecy, or not, the metaphorical meaning is applicable and a word to the wise. Obama will soon meet the same fate. The beast serves no one.
 

Waindo

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Ah, the man who is on many t-shirts worn by angst teenagers. He was a fine man, a true humanist. Having said this, communism does not work and so I do not agree with his political views.

In any case, I am not too familiar with him as I have not really studied the Cuban revolution.
Indeed. It sounds good as an idea, but all dictatorships are terrible. Communism/socialism is only possible among bees and ants.
 
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