Were the Hyuga even the strongest with the absence of the Uchiha?

[Made in Heaven]

Asuma and Neji both have feats. They just don't stand out, and Neji's case is even worse because at least Asuma has showings against people like Hidan and Kisame in Parts 1 and 2. Neji has no notable showings in Part 2. All his skirmishes were team efforts. His best feats come from Part 1, against people like PTS Naruto and Kidomaru. I would say you'd have to be delusional to try and use those here, but you are delusional and you will try to use those here.

So no, feats against weak children are not better than no feats.



Lmao I can't with this guy.

then please show me asuma's feats. all of them.

That's asuma, not neji. Neji always had 1 v 1.

 

[KidGamer65]

then please show me asuma's feats. all of them.

That's asuma, not neji. Neji always had 1 v 1.

They've been posted in this thread. Vs. his old team. Chapter 141, skirmish against Kisame and then we have his team vs. Hidan.

Neji had no 1 on 1 fights in Part 2. None. Please don't lie. I don't care about his feats against PTS Naruto and Kidomaru so please don't reference those again.

Asuma had a Kenjutsu battle with 100% Kisame and one-upped that *****. Neji got shitted on by a water-clone that was made out of a 30% Kisame. And water clones only take up about 10% of a user's chakra. Imagine at what power they stood when a 30% Kisame made them. Go figure!



Possibly, the first time I have seen the use of wit from you. Good results. I chuckled.

Well, wit seems to get people more irritated than insults, so I gotta go for what works best. :lol

And the bold is almost exactly what I was about to reference. Asuma performed better than Neji against Kisame than Neji did against Kisame's clone's clone yet somehow Asuma is the one with lackluster feats. Smh.

 

[shelke]

when?

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In CQC, Asuma > Kisame.

Well, wit seems to get people more irritated than insults, so I gotta go for what works best. :lol

And the bold is almost exactly what I was about to reference. Asuma performed better than Neji against Kisame than Neji did against Kisame's clone's clone yet somehow Asuma is the one with lackluster feats. Smh.

They do, don't they? :kd:

I brought it up way back in a Versus thread myself. Though, Kisame wankers were super-mad. Kisame makes use of Samehada. It tends to move on its own, which is why it intercepted Bee's lethal attacks. Otherwise, Kisame isn't that fast. Though, that is a different debate. Asuma shits on Neji in CQC.

 

[Made in Heaven]

They've been posted in this thread. Vs. his old team. Chapter 141, skirmish against Kisame and then we have his team vs. Hidan.

Neji had no 1 on 1 fights in Part 2. None. Please don't lie. I don't care about his feats against PTS Naruto and Kidomaru so please don't reference those again.

lol How the hell does one have a proper argument with you when you are literally dismissing a character's feats (as always)?

Neither did Asuma though. He fought Kisame/Itachi with other Jonins and fought hidan with Shikamaru and two others. Not to mention both of his opponents weren't even serious. And against his old Team, he didn't manage to pull off anything notable iirc.

 

[Made in Heaven]

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In CQC, Asuma > Kisame.

Oh looks like I'm wrong again. Ignore the above post

 

[KidGamer65]

Oh looks like I'm wrong again. Ignore the above post

lol How the hell does one have a proper argument with you when you are literally dismissing a character's feats (as always)?

Neither did Asuma though. He fought Kisame/Itachi with other Jonins and fought hidan with Shikamaru and two others. Not to mention both of his opponents weren't even serious. And against his old Team, he didn't manage to pull off anything notable iirc.

Where have I dismissed Neji's feats? Show me or don't make the claim. Not interested in your usual fabrications. Do you expect me to entertain you saying nonsense like "Since Neji did X against Kidomaru or Kid Naruto he beats asuma"? :lol

:lol @ the bold. You were pretty adamant about Asuma having no feats as if you knew it for a fact, but when the actual scans are posted for you (since you were too lazy to do a simple check on the wiki which would've told you exactly what shelke just posted) now we see "oops". Smh.

 

[Made in Heaven]

Where have I dismissed a character's feats? Show me or don't make the claim. Not interested in your usual fabrications.

:lol @ the bold. You were pretty adamant about Asuma having no feats as if you knew it for a fact, but when the actual scans are posted for you (since you were too lazy to do a simple check on the wiki which would've told you exactly what shelke just posted) now we see "oops". Smh.

You dismiss hinata's speed feat even though it follows the exact same logic as Minato's.

yeah idc I was wrong. Oops is all I have to say. Not an entire fit and denial.

 

[KidGamer65]

You dismiss hinata's speed feat even though it follows the exact same logic as Minato's.

yeah idc I was wrong. Oops is all I have to say. Not an entire fit and denial.

It really doesn't and I told you why but instead of addressing it you made a childish little "I'm right no matter what anyone says" "closing" post instead. You sit here and act like I said "Hinata's feats are irrelevant" without providing reasoning for that being the case. I provided my reasoning. You just didn't like it because you couldn't address it, and that's why you quit responding the very same moment I brought the Hashirama/Tobirama/Hiruzen/Sasuke speed comparison into the fold.

 

[KidGamer65]

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In CQC, Asuma > Kisame.



They do, don't they? :kd:

I brought it up way back in a Versus thread myself. Though, Kisame wankers were super-mad. Kisame makes use of Samehada. It tends to move on its own, which is why it intercepted Bee's lethal attacks. Otherwise, Kisame isn't that fast. Though, that is a different debate. Asuma shits on Neji in CQC.

I wouldn't say Kisame isn't that fast. He has some decent feats, I'm definitely not putting him among the top tier in that category like Itachi, Sasuke and others, but yeah, different debate altogether. Agreed that Asuma whoops Neji's overrated ass.

 

[shelke]

I wouldn't say Kisame isn't that fast. He has some decent feats, I'm definitely not putting him among the top tier in that category like Itachi, Sasuke and others, but yeah, different debate altogether. Agreed that Asuma whoops Neji's overrated ass.

Well, 'isn't that fast' shouldn't translate into 'he's slow'. He isn't top tier in my book in regards to speed and Kenjutsu. He's still pretty good, though. Bee was running circles around him as Samehada was moving on its own to intercept all of Bee's attacks. He got saved against V2 Bull-attack because Samehada, quite literally, moved between them and took on most of the attack. Its teeth flew out. Imagine if Kisame had taken the full force of the attack; he would have died.

In water, he tricked Bee to capture him. Otherwise, he was still much slower despite being in his shark-form. But, yeah, that's a different debate.

P.s: And what are those Hinata's feats everyone keeps talking about? I don't get it.

 

[Made in Heaven]

It really doesn't and I told you why but instead of addressing it you made a childish little "I'm right no matter what anyone says" "closing" post instead.

Wait that was me?

-You're wrong.
-You've proven my point about your bias and stupidity
-The end.

You sit here and act like I said "Hinata's feats are irrelevant" without providing reasoning for that being the case.

Your reasoning goes against what Kishimoto established and u go on to make up theories like how Hinata was only at the front because of strategy to deflect Juubi bomb which makes no sense when the bomb was fired at the last second.

I provided my reasoning.

It's too bad you still haven't explained how Hinata's case is different than Minato's.

You just didn't like it because you couldn't address it

And you still haven't addressed how Hinata showing up is different from Minato showing up. Both ran to their location, Minato just used FTG at the last second, and that is insignificant because he can only throw an FTG kunai so far for it to matter.

and that's why you quit responding the very same moment I brought the Hashirama/Tobirama/Hiruzen/Sasuke speed comparison into the fold.

They dont matter. Kishimoto made it a point that minato's early arrival was due to his shushin (foot speed) but that doesn't mean the other three hokages arriving together are the same speed.

 

[KidGamer65]

Well, 'isn't that fast' shouldn't translate into 'he's slow'. He isn't top tier in my book in regards to speed and Kenjutsu. He's still pretty good, though. Bee was running circles around him as Samehada was moving on its own to intercept all of Bee's attacks. He got saved against V2 Bull-attack because Samehada, quite literally, moved between them and took on most of the attack. Its teeth flew out. Imagine if Kisame had taken the full force of the attack; he would have died.

In water, he tricked Bee to capture him. Otherwise, he was still much slower despite being in his shark-form. But, yeah, that's a different debate.

Yup, I agree with pretty much all of what you are saying here then.

Wait that was me?

Is telling the truth really this hard for you? That was a response to this pile of garbage:

lol i dont care anymore. I have been here all day. End of the day, kishi said minato arriving first makes him fastest. Hinata did the same. Anything else is irrelevant.

"Concession accepted" comment inbound

:lol So yes, that was you, as usual.

It's too bad you still haven't explained how Hinata's case is different than Minato's.

I've told you why you can't apply that logic all across. Why are you so adamant on not wanting to apply that logic to anyone else? Oh wait, I know, because then you'll expose the fact that your argument makes no sense.

And you still haven't addressed how Hinata showing up is different from Minato showing up. Both ran to their location, Minato just used FTG at the last second, and that is insignificant because he can only throw an FTG kunai so far for it to matter.

I actually have addressed this.

They dont matter. Kishimoto made it a point that minato's early arrival was due to his shushin (foot speed) but that doesn't mean the other three hokages arriving together are the same speed.

They actually do, because all of that follows the same logic. Distance, Time and Speed. The guy who got there first was considered the fastest, so those who get there at the same time are considered to be on par in speed. If 3 people cross the finish line in a short dash all at the same time who is the fastest? :lol

Kishimoto never even came out and stated that Minato is the fastest because he got to the battlefield first, and even if he did. That's their case only. Not Hinata and her division's, who were traveling as a unit, together. If you think that Hashi/Tobi/Hiruzen getting there at the same time doesn't mean that they are the same then Minato arriving before them isn't why Tobirama said that his Shunshin is better. For example, Minato could've seen the Juubidama and sped up to go save everyone, and thus the other Hokage would call him fast because they could deduct from Minato's speed that if they had all been racing at top speed Minato would've won.

That's just an example. An example that is likely to be true because saving the alliance is the only reason Minato would have to speed ahead of the rest of them instead of sticking together like every other unit in this Manga was doing. But of course, you'll probably make more excuses about how they were "Racing". :lol

I also told you why Hinata and Ino HAD to be in the front but of course you ignored that as well. They can't use Mind Transfer without a clear path to Obito, thus they need to be in front of all their allies. What's even funnier is that Hinata was carrying Ino, so is Hinata while carrying Ino faster than a top speed Rock Lee now? Are you going to make more excuses for your logic being sound?

Though you probably won't respond to this. You'll say something along the lines of "I don't care" and then you'll continue to address the topic without quoting me in hopes of not getting dragged into another argument you can't win.

 

[shelke]

Hiruzen is faster than Sasuke? Which version? The part I Vote I version? I agree, then. The little whipper-snapper can't rattle the old man's bones in that little form.

:kd:

 

[Hakke]

That doesn't mean that failing to damage Kisame means that it does anything noticeable to Asuma. So until you can actually prove that it will there is nothing to argue here no matter how much you want to whine about it. Neji was fighting Kisame with the intent to kill just like the rest of his team. I don't want to read any nonsense excuses about how he purposely chose not to hit a vital just because you people can't cope with what was shown on panel.

And please stop talking about pain that was shrugged off. He felt no Pain. Nothing suggests that he did. No signs whatsoever. The damage he took was zero. Not minimal. Z-E-R-O. Idk why you people can't accept that.

You keep crying about how I'm ignoring what the DB says when it doesn't matter what the DB says. Kishimoto drew how that technique actually works and at Neji's level it hasn't done a damn thing worth mentioning in this fight. So when you can bring those feats that prove that it is then we can talk.

Was Kisame hurt? No. Nothing more to argue here. Statements alone don't help you and that's the issue with you Neji fanboys. Neji's feats in Pt 2 are lackluster so you try to use statements with no gauging of the actual strength behind said techniques because you know the actual feats disagree. Air Palm's only feat, on Neji's level, is blowing Kisame back a few meters and failing to injure him despite the attack being made to target one's vital points. Kishimoto is the one who drew that, not me. So go cry to him about how he didn't make your favorite character powerful enough. :lol Not me.

Good. you are now just ignoring the DB scan and what Kishi himself said about the ability of that Jutsu.

No bro. I will not play your game. if you don't what to take the DB then my argument ends here because what Kishi stated is valid whether you like it or not. just deal with it

he stated that it's a forceful attack. did he lie?

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causing a distortion on water by blowing a body at high velocity proves that it's forceful. can a forceful attack cause damage? anyone with half a brain knows that. especially if it was a pinpointed attack

if Kisame tanked it then that just proves that he is durable. does not mean that the Jutsu does no damage.

Korustuchi punched Kinshiki but it didn't do any noteworthy damage, does that mean Korustuchi punch does no damage? lol

True, but if they are clashing in close combat he'll have to separate himself from that clash to use Air Palm, and that distance gives Asuma plenty of time to block or retaliate to any follow up attack from Neji.

why can't Neji use it from a melee range exactly?

No fam. It blew him off. Where is the damage? :lol And no, taking a punch means you were uninjured. Sakura killed Zetsu in one hit. Lmao. Try again.

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can't you see the distortion on his body?

and nope. Sakura didn't kill him

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he took an elbow followed by a punch and was still talking to her

He's had no reason to hold back on his body blow and we've seen how powerful it is in canon, so there's no need to start speculating, trying to make Neji more powerful than he was depicted to be.

he only used One Blow Body on a thin Chakra webs, a water prison, and a Zetsu. why would he release much Chakra?

this is the amount of Chakra that SRA was able to release

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and part 2 Neji can release more Chakra than SRA, so imagine if he released this much Chakra in a One Blow Body

No, it's not. The same technique that goes into wielding blades doesn't translate to the same technique used to fight with hand to hand. Where are you even getting this from? Clearly not any reputable source. Bukijutsu is not Taijutsu. This is not

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You'd have somewhat of a point if he couldn't extend the reach of his blade, but he can so you don't.

you are correct. with a long blade, he can strike from a safe distance and prevent Neji from getting into a grappling distance with him. but that type of a blade is completely ineffective in front of Neji, because he can just destroy it by blowing Chakra from his tenketsu. so Asuma needs to strike with his real weapon which its reach is not long enough to prevent Neji from getting into a grappling distance so it is a hand to hand combat

I'm just going to ignore everything striked out until you prove that Neji is capable of parrying Asuma's weapons like that.

both are in the same tier in speed and skills, so it wouldn't be a cakewalk for either Neji or Asuma. there is going to be a close fight here. so don't push the debate as if Neji would be only evading just because Asuma has a "weapon".

and we have the fact that Neji has the Byakugan which would allow him to anticipate his movements which would give him a better chance at countering his attacks better and maneuver him and there is the fact that his hand speed is much faster than Asuma's

-No, it's not considered Taijutsu.
-Naturally you've ignored what I said about fighting style. A fighting style being better than another fighting style by default is impossible and makes no sense.
-The rest of this I've already addressed in my last post so I won't do it again. I'll instead tell you to stop fanboying and start reading what's being typed. Again, I predicted all of this behavior yet you still quote me looking for an argument. :lol An argument you can't have because you are too biased towards a drawing. :lol

-every fight in a grappling distance is considered a hand to hand combat
-okay
-bruh... :kk:

 

[Made in Heaven]

For example, Minato could've seen the Juubidama and sped up to go save everyone, and thus the other Hokage would call him fast because they could deduct from Minato's speed that if they had all been racing at top speed Minato would've won.

That's just an example. An example that is likely to be true because saving the alliance is the only reason Minato would have to speed ahead of the rest of them instead of sticking together like every other unit in this Manga was doing. But of course, you'll probably make more excuses about how they were "Racing". :lol

This could apply to Hinata too.

I also told you why Hinata and Ino HAD to be in the front but of course you ignored that as well.
They can't use Mind Transfer without a clear path to Obito, thus they need to be in front of all their allies.

Didnt ignore. I get that they were at the front to use mind transfer. But Juubi bomb was used 3 seconds before Ino showed up, so they wouldn't know. Meaning they were already at the front of the alliance to begin with and it was dumb luck that they caught the bomb.

What's even funnier is that Hinata was carrying Ino, so is Hinata while carrying Ino faster than a top speed Rock Lee now? Are you going to make more excuses for your logic being sound?

Nope, I said only in her own division. Lee isn't in Hinata's division. And lol, look at you using a character who hasn't had any good speed feats since part 1. Just like w/ Neji.

 

[KidGamer65]

Good. you are now just ignoring the DB scan and what Kishi himself said about the ability of that Jutsu.

I didn't ignore it.

No bro. I will not play your game. if you don't what to take the DB then my argument ends here because what Kishi stated is valid whether you like it or not. just deal with it

he stated that it's a forceful attack. did he lie?

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causing a distortion on water by blowing a body at high velocity proves that it's forceful. can a forceful attack cause damage? anyone with half a brain knows that. esepcially if it was a pinpointed attack

if Kisame tanked it then that just proves that he is durable. does not mean that the Jutsu does no damage.

Korustuchi puched Kinshiki but it didn't do any noteworthy damage, does that mean Korustuchi punch does no damage? lol

Precisely. So now I'm waiting for you to show that it's powerful enough to do something of note to Asuma. What is so hard to understand about that? You keep on crying about how I'm saying it does "no damage" in general when I only said it will do nothing of note to Asuma.

Though I can't expect you to address the real issue here, because you can't.

why can't Neji use it from a melee range?

Because if he stops protecting himself and attacking to try and use Air Palm Asuma's Hien cuts him down. I've already posted scans of how long it reaches.

and nope. Sakura didn't kill him

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he took an elbow followed by a punch and was still talking to her

Yes, because she wanted to interrogate him. So he took a punch from Sakura who was holding back her strength and still didn't tank anything. Tanking means little to no damage was taken.

he only used One Blow Body on a thin Chakra webs, a water prison and a zetsu. why would he release much Chakra?

this is the amount of Chakra that SRA was able to release

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and part 2 Neji can release more Chakra than SRA, so imagine if he released this much Chakra in a One Blow Body

We've seen Pt. 2 Neji's bodyblow. There is no room for speculation. I don't care how big you think he can make it, I only care about how big Kishimoto depicted him being capable of making it. I could use this same logic and say that Itachi can make any size Katon he wants. Not how it works.

you are correct. with a long blade he can strike from a safe distance and prevent Neji from getting into a grappling distance with him. but that tybe of blade is combletely ineffective in front of Neji, because he can just destroy it by blowing Chakra from his tenketsu. so Asuma needs to strike with his real weapon which its reach is not long enough to prevent Neji from getting into a grappling distance so it is a hand to hand combat

Fanfiction. The only time he can destroy chakra is if he uses Gentle Fist, and if he tries to clash w/ Hien using his palms he loses his hands.

both are in the same tier in speed and skills, so it wouldn't be a cake walk for neither Neji or Asuma. there is going to be a close fight here. so don't push the debate as if Neji would be only evading just because Asuma has a "weapon".

No, they are in the same broad tier but Neji has feats against inferior foes that Asuma has replicated against superior foes as posted above, so go skim through everything that's been posted on that topic. Asuma is also outright stated to be among the best when it comes to close quarters combat when it comes to Konoha Ninja so there's really no arguing that Neji wins against Asuma in CQC.

And yes, I can push the debate that way because Neji can't clash against Asuma's weapons. Thus he is forced to evade. There is no other option for him.

and we have the fact that Neji has the Byakugan which would allow him to anticipate his movements which would give him a better chance at countering his attacks better and maneuver him and there is the fact that his hand speed is much faster than Asuma's

None of this proves anything. Abstract statements aren't evidence of your claims. Sure, the Byakugan can anticipate movements to some extent. Does that mean he'll overpower Asuma in CQC? Nope. Where is the comparison? I'm not seeing any. His hand speed being faster than Asuma's is irrelevant for the same reason it's always been irrelevant when you bring it up when arguing against Sasuke.

-every fight in a grappling distance is considered a hand to hand combat
-okay
-bruh... :kk:

Seriously. Stop making excuses. It's getting old.

 

[shelke]

One fought a 100% Kisame and had much better speed and reflexes. The other got one-upped by a 10% clone of a 30% Kisame. But, they have same speed and skills. It's like the Kisame scans I posted don't even matter. :kd:

 

[KidGamer65]

This could apply to Hinata too.



Didnt ignore. I get that they were at the front to use mind transfer. But Juubi bomb was used 3 seconds before Ino showed up, so they wouldn't know. Meaning they were already at the front of the alliance to begin with and it was dumb luck that they caught the bomb.



Nope, I said only in her own division. Lee isn't in Hinata's division. And lol, look at you using a character who hasn't had any good speed feats since part 1. Just like w/ Neji.

You see, this shows that you either can't comprehend the argument or you don't want to. If that was the case for Hinata as well, then you'd need a statement saying she's faster than everyone else to compare. That scenario means that Minato arriving first has jack to do with why he was called "faster than Tobirama" Go read that again and then respond.

Stop making excuses. The Hyuga can see everything going on w/ their Byakugan. They'd know that their buddies were in danger before the bomb was fired meaning they'd have enough time to get the necessary people to the front lines in order to counter. So no, they didn't have to be in the front lines the entire time. What's even worse about this asinine statement is that you are now implying that INO is faster than Sai, Shikamaru, Choji and them since she got there first and was in front first. When does it end? Huh?

So? They both haven't had good speed feats since Part 1 yet they are still canonically faster than Hinata. That's all that matters in this argument.

Lee and Hinata were traveling in the group that arrived first. Hinata is in the second division yet she arrived before the rest of her division, meaning she was not traveling with them.

-No statement from the Manga that puts Minato>The rest of the Hokage based on arrival time.
-Better scenarios for why such claim was made have been presented.
-You haven't properly addressed them.

:lol This is pathetic.

 

[Made in Heaven]

If that was the case for Hinata as well, then you'd need a statement saying she's faster than everyone else to compare. That scenario means that Minato arriving first has jack to do with Go read that again and then respond.

Speed feats are now only valid if they are pointed out. Cool.

They'd know that their buddies were in danger before the bomb was fired meaning they'd have enough time to get the necessary people to the front lines in order to counter. So no, they didn't have to be in the front lines the entire time.

3 seconds isn't enough time.

What's even worse about this asinine statement is that you are now implying that INO is faster than Sai, Shikamaru, Choji and them since she got there first and was in front first. When does it end? Huh?

More of this "are you really saying X is faster than Y" nonsense based on your own feelings. Not to mention Ino saved Choji from an attack from Asuma.

Lee and Hinata were traveling in the group that arrived first.

Hinata is in the second division yet she arrived before the rest of her division, meaning she was not traveling with them.

Yes she was, kiba/shino/hiashi/ino/shikamaru/choji were all in her divisioj

 

[shelke]

Sasuke arrived with Jugo. Jugo is as fast as him. Suigetsu arrived with Kain and Orochimaru, so the latter are as fast as him.