Was Sasuke really nerfed?

[Ovan]

I think he just need a break.

 

[LeSauce]

Nah, it's just karma at work:

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You do realize he was right at that point in time, right? Kakashi didn't have Sharingan, which is why he wasn't useful. Obito even said that he needed the Sharingan in order to help.

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Sasuke was wrong about Sakura not being able to contribute to an extent though.

 

[LeSauce]

Nah, it's just karma at work:

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You do realize he was right at that point in time, right? Kakashi didn't have Sharingan, which is why he wasn't useful. Obito even said that he needed the Sharingan in order to help.

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Sasuke was wrong about Sakura not being able to contribute to an extent though.

 

[SuperChief]

You do realize he was right at that point in time, right? Kakashi didn't have Sharingan, which is why he wasn't useful. Obito even said that he needed the Sharingan in order to help.

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Sasuke was wrong about Sakura not being able to contribute to an extent though.

Of course Sasuke right, but his words came back to bite him. That's why it's called karma. Not to say I would agree with Sir Derp though.

 

[Uchihajin Sasuke]

Obviously, he is, but even more funny to me is the way Kishi is handling Kaguya.

For someone who has more chakra than the juubi itself to run out of it that quickly? Sounds like plot to me.

 

[Genjin]

Obviously, he is, but even more funny to me is the way Kishi is handling Kaguya.

For someone who has more chakra than the juubi itself to run out of it that quickly? Sounds like plot to me.

Sounds more logical to me. It was already explained that she needs a lot of chakra when teleporting between dimensions. Her running out of chakra was because of Naruto making her teleport so much in their fight.

 

[Cooh]

Those recent sasuke bash threads are hilarious

 

[johnny335704]

Well, Sasuke alone is not a good match up against Kaguya because his eye powers alonr r not affecting Kaguya a bit. Naruto has over-all power-up so he is able to stand against Kaguya with more prowess.

 

[the unforgiven]

its funny how sasuke fanboys are trying to justify sasuke and how he is nerfed lmao instread of accepting facts sasuke is all bt hype.

one more funny thing sasuke called sakura useless bt in d end that useless sakura was one who saved him

OT : i agree

 

[V h o]

Naw he wasn't nerfed. Fans just wanted him to warp organs out, warp the sun into someone's brain, warp sword into someone's brain, etc. I don't know why people are saying he is nerfed when he hasn't shown everything (hopefully there is more to show Zzz).

 

[the unforgiven]

Those recent sasuke bash threads are hilarious

i guess you missed recent sasuke wank threads

 

[EternalFlame]

I guess it's more disappointment.

Here's the thing, he gets his new powers and showcases his new S/T technique. In that one chapter to himself [Yes, he's only really had one chapter to outshine the others and it was against a far inferior opponent to Kaguya] he uses the technique four times. A few chapters later and next thing you know a drawback is established that he can only use it once before it needs to cool-down, a few chapters after that and Kaguya is dodging it with ease and making him look like a joke while Naruto is holding his own. It's already bad enough that Kishi thought it was okay to give it another draw-back, the range-limit... that makes two drawbacks for Sasuke and ZERO for Naruto.

Also, you're seeing a lot of people complaining because this isn't anything new and people are sick of the treatment. Sasuke is the deuteragonist and yet compared to Naruto he's been under-performing in feats and showcase for literally hundreds of chapters. When KCM and BM was introduced people were so hyped, and it definitely delivered. He was doing out of this world feats for the time and pretty much just being a beast. EMS was even more hyped up, Sasuke went on one of his hiatus's and was absent from the manga for a long time. When EMS was eventually revealed, he pretty much disappointed. He should of been the one to beat Kabuto to showcase his power like Naruto got to do for this, but he got overshadowed by Itachi. He then got overshadowed by the Hokages and is currently getting overshadowed by Naruto.

Here is what they've both shown in the Kaguya/Madara fight

Naruto

Yang Power
Truth Seeking Balls
New Mode
Self Flight
Magnet Release Rasengan*
Lava Release Rasengan*
*Super Variant Rasengan from every Bijuu, each with its own power
Multiple Tailed Beast Ball Shuriken
Speed that is somehow replicating if not going further then Sasuke's S/T which is supposed to be Insant
No drawbacks to his power unlike Sasuke that has two.
Jesus Healing

Sasuke

Ying Power
Black Chidori
A winged Susanno
His nerfed S/T Jutsu
Drawbacks to his power, not just one but two

If Kakashi's Susanno doesn't get absoulutely shit-stomped then it's over. If his Susanno takes one direct hit and survives? Then it's clear how Kishi views Sasuke.

 

[JStar King]

I guess it's more disappointment.

Here's the thing, he gets his new powers and showcases his new S/T technique. In that one chapter to himself [Yes, he's only really had one chapter to outshine the others and it was against a far inferior opponent to Kaguya] he uses the technique four times. A few chapters later and next thing you know a drawback is established that he can only use it once before it needs to cool-down, a few chapters after that and Kaguya is dodging it with ease and making him look like a joke while Naruto is holding his own. It's already bad enough that Kishi thought it was okay to give it another draw-back, the range-limit... that makes two drawbacks for Sasuke and ZERO for Naruto.

Also, you're seeing a lot of people complaining because this isn't anything new and people are sick of the treatment. Sasuke is the deuteragonist and yet compared to Naruto he's been under-performing in feats and showcase for literally hundreds of chapters. When KCM and BM was introduced people were so hyped, and it definitely delivered. He was doing out of this world feats for the time and pretty much just being a beast. EMS was even more hyped up, Sasuke went on one of his hiatus's and was absent from the manga for a long time. When EMS was eventually revealed, he pretty much disappointed. He should of been the one to beat Kabuto to showcase his power like Naruto got to do for this, but he got overshadowed by Itachi. He then got overshadowed by the Hokages and is currently getting overshadowed by Naruto.

Here is what they've both shown in the Kaguya/Madara fight

Naruto

Yang Power
Truth Seeking Balls
New Mode
Self Flight
Magnet Release Rasengan*
Lava Release Rasengan*
*Super Variant Rasengan from every Bijuu, each with its own power
Multiple Tailed Beast Ball Shuriken
Speed that is somehow replicating if not going further then Sasuke's S/T which is supposed to be Insant
No drawbacks to his power unlike Sasuke that has two.
Jesus Healing

Sasuke

Ying Power
Black Chidori
A winged Susanno
His nerfed S/T Jutsu
Drawbacks to his power, not just one but two

If Kakashi's Susanno doesn't get absoulutely shit-stomped then it's over. If his Susanno takes one direct hit and survives? Then it's clear how Kishi views Sasuke.

Yep, Sasuke gets the short end of the stick. It's predictable what's about to happen.

 

[Oblivionx]

i have to say, i agree completely... XD

 

[lucario14]

Was Sasuke really nerfed?

This seems to be the most frequently asked question as of late around here, and I felt like trying to answer that question by analysing Sasuke in recent events.

The one thing I'm going to focus on more than anything else is context. It's an unfortunate reality that NB has a bad reputation due to members simply not being able to account for context during recent developments, and because of that, our members, or rather, the fanboys, come to wildly inaccurate conclusions that are based on embellishment of facts to the point the true meaning of events is lost.

Sasuke is one such example, and as of late, due to his perceived under-performing in the battle against Kaguya, frustrated members - by and large Sasuke fanboys - claim that Kishimoto is "nerfing" their favourite character. They come up with ludicrous theories accusing Kishimoto of suddenly hating a character he has spent 15 years of his life developing.

Let's get something straight. These fanboys have no one to blame but themselves. They're the ones that let their bias and petty agendas obfuscate events and facts illustrated in the manga to make their illogical, and oft ill-considered rationalisations.

So, in my attempt to answer (or perhaps more accurately discuss) the question whether Sasuke was actually nerfed or not, I want to establish two things.

That's cool man.

One, an ocular power boosts does not equate to an overall power boosts. A set of new, prettier eyes does not make any character stronger in every regard. To clarify some more, the fact that Sasuke now possesses the Rinnegan does not mean he has obtained a boost in physical attributes. Sasuke isn't physically faster or stronger because of his new eye.

You are right. However, the sage did not just give sasuke ocular power. Notice the mark on his left hand? This is Yin power, so he has acquired Yin release. He has also acquired the sage's chakra directly (50% to be exact) but I'll get to that later.

And secondly, teleportation is not speed. Teleportation is instant travel.

Spoiler

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This means Sasuke gets from point A to B in literally no time. This, however, does not account for the physical speed required to attack, so these fanboy delusions of Sasuke instantly killing anyone in his way with a single move are pure fantasy.

If his opponent wasn't kaguya or if they didn't have limbo as one of their techniques, chances are they

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or

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. Let's talk about sasuke's "instant travel". Sasuke's rinne tech made kaguya change dimension,

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,

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. Naruto made her change

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. If someone like kaguya has to resort to something that involves expending a large amount of chakra to escape, I think the rinne tech is quite a factor in battle.

Any individual with some common sense would question why Kishimoto gave Sasuke this particular ability. The answer is pretty damn simple.

Sasuke needs teleportation to keep up.

When it comes to actual speed, Sasuke does not top any list. He is not even top 5 if you consider the likes of Naruto, Madara, Minato, A, Tobirama, Third Raikage and Gai - just to name a few from the top of my head. However, with his teleportation technique, Sasuke can actually fight and potentially beat these characters.

Minato - For minato to use ftg, a marking needs to be made. He usually does this by throwing kunai. Sasuke doesn't need to throw kunai so he's faster

A - Ok we see

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that kcm naruto dodged A's attack. We also know that ems sasuke is just as, if not

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. So we already can say ems sasuke is as fast as A. Current sasuke would be even faster but I'll get to why the sage's chakra has boosted ALL of sasuke's attributes shortly.

Tobirama - See minato

3rd Raikage - See A

Madara - When madara used limbo to escape naruto's and sasuke's attack, he was going at full speed and was identified at a distance

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. Now we know that sasuke cannot use his rinne tech simultaneously because all he needed to do

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was teleport closer to his range then use his swap tech. Why did he run to get in range? The answer is he cannot use his tech straight after he's already used it. He already used it against madara

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so he can't use it anytime after. This means that he used PURE footspeed to catch up to madara and bisect him. Even when madara had a headstart, a distance so big it was out of sasuke's range, sasuke caught up to him when madara grabbed kakashi's eye. Before you say, he thought a whole sentence, NO. Thinking a sentence doesn't take much time at all. Certainly less time than engaging in any muscle movement to react that's for sure. Sasuke was so fast, madara couldn't even react after he caught up.

Guy - Guy is faster, no doubt about it.

Sasuke's teleportation ability is, for the most part anyway, the main reason he was so overhyped to begin with. Sasuke fanboys got in their heads that Sasuke was "owning" Madara with his new power, which couldn't be further from the truth, and of course they would have realised this if they had looked at the context of the situation.

And to prove my early point about context, let me breakdown the go-to scene Sasuke fanboys post to make their "point" that Sasuke is as fast as they claim he is. This Madara "versus" Sasuke panel is used quite a lot.

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The problem with this panel is that when Sasuke fanboys use it, they deliberately ignore all context.

Now never mind the fact Madara was smiling at Sasuke when he got bisected, if you recall the Konan VS Obito, using Kamui on himself made Madara vulnerable.

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Furthermore, Madara was being condescending about it towards Sasuke, because he knew that Sasuke's attack was inconsequential - which it was seeing as he was able to get this second Rinnegan and regenerate without problems.

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Yes, obviously, Sasuke is faster than the vast majority of shinobi, however[,/B] you have to keep in this is Madara, and his god complex is well documented.

All this is your opinion. I don't see madara smiling, nor do I think he was being condescending Lol.

Don't believe me? This is the same Madara that actively provoked Eight Gates Gai just to see how much damage he could take. Madara was analysing Gai out of fascination, he was interested in the power of the Eight Gates, and he wasn't even fighting back seriously despite taking damage.

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By the end of it, Gai was almost completely and thoroughly done, and Madara, who was supposedly "getting owned" - wanted to see more.

Spoiler

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]

These are some the facial expressions and inner monologues of Madara during his fight with Gai.

Spoiler

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Now let's take a look at Madara during his "fight" with Sasuke.

Spoiler

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As you can see there is a world of difference. Both Gai and Sasuke had powers that were unknown quantities to Madara, but the big difference is that Gai was a much more dangerous opponent. Sasuke took him by surprise once, and even then Madara clearly did not give a shit and analysed the situation calmly. There was not a single moment in which Madara felt even close to being overwhelmed.

Umm, you showed one picture of sasuke's sword impaling madara. The rest is him thinking about sasuke's rinne tech and his battle skills.

I can turn this question on it's head.....When Guy was attacking him, madara stated he wanted more. When sasuke attacked him, madara stated that he needed to get his other eye. I'm not sure about you but I think madara is far more weary of sasuke than of guy. Madara needed to run away from facing him however he enjoyed a battle against guy because he interested him and madara knew he was superior from this piece of

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.

So, coming to a conclusion, was Sasuke really nerfed? I believe I've pretty much answered that question already by now. I don't think Sasuke was nerfed at all, I just think that his feats against Madara were overblown and taken out of context, which thus led to unreasonable expectations that Sasuke could not meet later on in his fight against Kaguya where it was revealed that his teleportation has a cool down period.

Sasuke was not nerfed. He simply was not as powerful as his fanboys believed him to be, and now that's become clear, they're mad because they're embarrassed.

Again, real cool man...Ok i'll answer the question from earlier.
Sasuke received 50% of the sage of six paths power. This power up included Rinnegan, Yin release and obviously Rikudou's chakra.
Yin release comes from his left hand, like naruto's yang release comes from his right hand. We haven't seen what this Yin release can do but we do know what naruto's yang release can (restore chakra to guy, obito, restore kakashi's eye etc).

Now the sage's chakra...

Speed - I have already explained how sasuke got faster than he was in ems so lets leave that out...

Power - Sasuke's susanoo was able to slice through meteors that dwarfed mountain ranges. Look at the

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. Ems Madara's PS couldn't even take on the shinsuusenju (10000 hand Buddha) but sasuke's could destroy something far bigger and stronger (Rock vs wood). Ems sasuke's susanoo was not capable of such a feat so he got enhanced power from the sage's chakra.

Chakra - Ms Sasuke before found it painful to maintain susanoo. Ems sasuke maintained PS for a very limited time (fused with naruto's bsm and needed jugo's chakra). Current sasuke has been using PS a LOT. His chakra reserves have increased too.

Senjutsu? - Recall that juubi jins have onmyoudon, meaning they

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It doesn't work on them. How do you think sasuke cut through madara then? Taijutsu? Lol. Maybe sasuke saying he

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might give you some indication. Senjutsu = enhanced power so sasuke's chidori became more powerful.

Sensing? = I'm not sure about this one but

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that he sensed naruto's chakra. Maybe it's only naruto's chakra.....

Ocular - I don't need to explain...*cough negate IT cough*

So there you have it... Maybe sasuke isn't nerfed but you're reasoning is poor

 

[SuperChief]

I guess it's more disappointment.

Here's the thing, he gets his new powers and showcases his new S/T technique. In that one chapter to himself [Yes, he's only really had one chapter to outshine the others and it was against a far inferior opponent to Kaguya] he uses the technique four times. A few chapters later and next thing you know a drawback is established that he can only use it once before it needs to cool-down, a few chapters after that and Kaguya is dodging it with ease and making him look like a joke while Naruto is holding his own. It's already bad enough that Kishi thought it was okay to give it another draw-back, the range-limit... that makes two drawbacks for Sasuke and ZERO for Naruto.

Also, you're seeing a lot of people complaining because this isn't anything new and people are sick of the treatment. Sasuke is the deuteragonist and yet compared to Naruto he's been under-performing in feats and showcase for literally hundreds of chapters. When KCM and BM was introduced people were so hyped, and it definitely delivered. He was doing out of this world feats for the time and pretty much just being a beast. EMS was even more hyped up, Sasuke went on one of his hiatus's and was absent from the manga for a long time. When EMS was eventually revealed, he pretty much disappointed. He should of been the one to beat Kabuto to showcase his power like Naruto got to do for this, but he got overshadowed by Itachi. He then got overshadowed by the Hokages and is currently getting overshadowed by Naruto.

Here is what they've both shown in the Kaguya/Madara fight

Naruto

Yang Power
Truth Seeking Balls
New Mode
Self Flight
Magnet Release Rasengan*
Lava Release Rasengan*
*Super Variant Rasengan from every Bijuu, each with its own power
Multiple Tailed Beast Ball Shuriken
Speed that is somehow replicating if not going further then Sasuke's S/T which is supposed to be Insant
No drawbacks to his power unlike Sasuke that has two.
Jesus Healing

Sasuke

Ying Power
Black Chidori
A winged Susanno
His nerfed S/T Jutsu
Drawbacks to his power, not just one but two

If Kakashi's Susanno doesn't get absoulutely shit-stomped then it's over. If his Susanno takes one direct hit and survives? Then it's clear how Kishi views Sasuke.

I understand their disappointment, but I don't agree with their reasons why. From what I understand your post basically boils down to Naruto pulling of all these feats while Sasuke isn't doing much that's just as impressive, so by comparing the two, Sasuke is under performing.

While I understand the inclination to do that, that is also your problem right there. Naruto was undeniably way of ahead of Sasuke before they got their power ups. The manga has shown more than enough evidence to convince even the staunchest Sasuke supporter if they would open themselves to reasonable discussion. Their mistake is making this as Naruto VS Sasuke thing, and not just a Sasuke thing, because it's illogical to consider that when both Naruto and Sasuek got equal portions of the Sage's power, that Sasuke's power up would suddenly also make up for the gap left by Bijū Mode and Bijū Sage Mode. It's just not reasonable.

That's cool man.

Cool.

You are right. However, the sage did not just give sasuke ocular power. Notice the mark on his left hand? This is Yin power, so he has acquired Yin release. He has also acquired the sage's chakra directly (50% to be exact) but I'll get to that later.

As far as we know Hagoromo gave Sasuke two different powers: his Rinnegan, and his Yin seal. We don't know what else Sasuke can do, or if there really is anything, so my post focuses on recent manga developments in particular that have been blow out of proportion.

If his opponent wasn't kaguya or if they didn't have limbo as one of their techniques, chances are they

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or

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.

Sure, most fodder tier shinobi could die of that, but it'd be narrow minded to consider all fights would go like that. Some characters have tanked far worse, and others are quick enough to dodge Sasuke's attack speed.

Let's talk about sasuke's "instant travel". Sasuke's rinne tech made kaguya change dimension,

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,

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. Naruto made her change

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. If someone like kaguya has to resort to something that involves expending a large amount of chakra to escape, I think the rinne tech is quite a factor in battle.

Er, I see both Naruto and Sasuke attacking Kaguya in the first, so Sasuke only made her change by herself only once - at a time that was inevitable because the gravity was negatively affecting her as well.

Minato - For minato to use ftg, a marking needs to be made. He usually does this by throwing kunai. Sasuke doesn't need to throw kunai so he's faster

Minato has exceptional reflexes and foot speed, plus his Shunshin is greater than even Tobirama's. Sasuke is not keeping up with him physically.

And if you want to talk about FTG VS Sasuke's jutsu - FTG blows it out of the water. It has no range limit, it can transport others, Minato can use it as many times as he want without a cool down limit, and he can place seals with his hands - seal which can last decades.

A - Ok we see

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that kcm naruto dodged A's attack. We also know that ems sasuke is just as, if not

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. So we already can say ems sasuke is as fast as A. Current sasuke would be even faster but I'll get to why the sage's chakra has boosted ALL of sasuke's attributes shortly.

This is flat out ridiculous. And it brings me back to my point about context. Sasuke is not keeping up with Naruto, Naruto is slowing down so he can keep up. What good is a combined attack if their synchronisation is entirely off? By common knowledge and feats alone, KCM Naruto blows Sasuke out of the water, and A does as well.

Current Sasuke is not demonstrably faster. That is just wishful thinking on your part, and A is still leagues ahead in speed.

Tobirama - See minato

See my early reply about Minato.

3rd Raikage - See A

See my reply about A.

Madara - When madara used limbo to escape naruto's and sasuke's attack, he was going at full speed and was identified at a distance

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. Now we know that sasuke cannot use his rinne tech simultaneously because all he needed to do

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was teleport closer to his range then use his swap tech. Why did he run to get in range? The answer is he cannot use his tech straight after he's already used it. He already used it against madara

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so he can't use it anytime after. This means that he used PURE footspeed to catch up to madara and bisect him. Even when madara had a headstart, a distance so big it was out of sasuke's range, sasuke caught up to him when madara grabbed kakashi's eye. Before you say, he thought a whole sentence, NO. Thinking a sentence doesn't take much time at all. Certainly less time than engaging in any muscle movement to react that's for sure. Sasuke was so fast, madara couldn't even react after he caught up.

Full speed? That's an assumption.

Madara obviously slowed down when he took Kakashi's eye and then stood still so he could teleport. He's much faster than Sasuke, but even Sasuke can catch up using Shunshin when Madara clearly isn't bothered.

Guy - Guy is faster, no doubt about it.

At least you know this.

All this is your opinion. I don't see madara smiling, nor do I think he was being condescending Lol.

Madara was smiling and being condescending when Sasuke swung his sword but because you can't see his face you conveniently deny that he did based on that alone - even though Sasuke is supposedly so fast that Madara couldn't react?

Umm, you showed one picture of sasuke's sword impaling madara. The rest is him thinking about sasuke's rinne tech and his battle skills.

What did I miss?

I can turn this question on it's head.....When Guy was attacking him, madara stated he wanted more. When sasuke attacked him, madara stated that he needed to get his other eye. I'm not sure about you but I think madara is far more weary of sasuke than of guy. Madara needed to run away from facing him however he enjoyed a battle against guy because he interested him and madara knew he was superior from this piece of

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.

Uh, no? Madara decided to get his second eye after Naruto and Sasuke failed to seal him. He slipped away and decided it was best not to underestimate them while he wasn't at full power. You're not turning things on their head, you're rewriting events to suit your point.

Again, real cool man...Ok i'll answer the question from earlier.
Sasuke received 50% of the sage of six paths power. This power up included Rinnegan, Yin release and obviously Rikudou's chakra.
Yin release comes from his left hand, like naruto's yang release comes from his right hand. We haven't seen what this Yin release can do but we do know what naruto's yang release can (restore chakra to guy, obito, restore kakashi's eye etc).

Now the sage's chakra...

This should be good...

Speed - I have already explained how sasuke got faster than he was in ems so lets leave that out...

Nope. You've failed to prove Sasuke became demonstrably faster because that isn't the case.

Power - Sasuke's susanoo was able to slice through meteors that dwarfed mountain ranges. Look at the

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. Ems Madara's PS couldn't even take on the shinsuusenju (10000 hand Buddha) but sasuke's could destroy something far bigger and stronger (Rock vs wood). Ems sasuke's susanoo was not capable of such a feat so he got enhanced power from the sage's chakra.

Let's a few things straight. Madara's PS is much, much bigger than Sasuke's.

Spoiler

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Those meteors were not bigger than Hashirama's Shin Sūsenju which dwarfed Madara's PS.

Chakra - Ms Sasuke before found it painful to maintain susanoo. Ems sasuke maintained PS for a very limited time (fused with naruto's bsm and needed jugo's chakra). Current sasuke has been using PS a LOT. His chakra reserves have increased too.

No argument here.

Senjutsu? - Recall that juubi jins have onmyoudon, meaning they

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It doesn't work on them. How do you think sasuke cut through madara then? Taijutsu? Lol. Maybe sasuke saying he

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might give you some indication. Senjutsu = enhanced power so sasuke's chidori became more powerful.

The Yin-Yang Release negation effect is channelled through the Truth Seeking Balls as is not in constant affect. They're not made immune to ninjutsu at all. Look at Obito. He took an Enton/Rasengan combo with some damage before the TSB quenched the flames.

Sasuke's Chidori was likely Yin-enhanced. The Senjutsu he possesses is not the same as Sage Mode. It refers to Hagoromo's power.

Sensing? = I'm not sure about this one but

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that he sensed naruto's chakra. Maybe it's only naruto's chakra.....

Sasuke is not a sensor type. He felt Naruto's chakra because it was immense, and Orochimaru thought it bothered him.

Ocular - I don't need to explain...*cough negate IT cough*

Because it's a Rinnegan. -.-

So there you have it... Maybe sasuke isn't nerfed but you're reasoning is poor

My reasoning isn't poor. I believe I've adequately demonstrated why yours is though.

 

[lucario14]

Cool.

As far as we know Hagoromo gave Sasuke two different powers: his Rinnegan, and his Yin seal. We don't know what else Sasuke can do, or if there really is anything, so my post focuses on recent manga developments in particular that have been blow out of proportion.

Sure, most fodder tier shinobi could die of that, but it'd be narrow minded to consider all fights would go like that. Some characters have tanked far worse, and others are quick enough to dodge Sasuke's attack speed.

I'm saying you have to be a juubi jin or have powers from the sage himself to survive those attacks or dodge them.

Er, I see both Naruto and Sasuke attacking Kaguya in the first, so Sasuke only made her change by herself only once - at a time that was inevitable because the gravity was negatively affecting her as well.

Sasuke was the one who teleported kaguya in between naruto and himself so it was mainly because of him that kaguya had to change dimension. Gravity was affecting everyone right? If she could dodge, why didn't she? Why did she have to resort to changing back to the genesis dimension which drained her chakra even more. Most likely if she didn't do it, she would have gotten hit.

Minato has exceptional reflexes and foot speed, plus his Shunshin is greater than even Tobirama's. Sasuke is not keeping up with him physically.

Lol minato is not keeping up with sasuke. Madara fodderized minato in sage mode, yet he couldn't react to sasuke. That should tell you how fast sasuke is now

And if you want to talk about FTG VS Sasuke's jutsu - FTG blows it out of the water. It has no range limit, it can transport others, Minato can use it as many times as he want without a cool down limit, and he can place seals with his hands - seal which can last decades.

Right but it needs those seals. Sasuke can do it without seals so he is at a slight advantage. He can use his tech before minato throws a single kunai.

This is flat out ridiculous. And it brings me back to my point about context. Sasuke is not keeping up with Naruto, Naruto is slowing down so he can keep up. What good is a combined attack if their synchronisation is entirely off? By common knowledge and feats alone, KCM Naruto blows Sasuke out of the water, and A does as well.

Current Sasuke is not demonstrably faster. That is just wishful thinking on your part, and A is still leagues ahead in speed.

You cannot be serious. Why are you assuming naruto is slowing down for sasuke? By that logic I can say sasuke is slowing down for naruto...

Full speed? That's an assumption.

Madara obviously slowed down when he took Kakashi's eye and then stood still so he could teleport. He's much faster than Sasuke, but even Sasuke can catch up using Shunshin when Madara clearly isn't bothered.

sasuke began chasing Madara at a distance greater than his range. His range is not small lol. Also of course he slowed down but how long does ripping out an eye and putting it in his eye socket take exactly? A very short amount of time. Also madara had to motor to get out of sasuke's range before naruto spotted him so it was near or at full speed.

Madara was smiling and being condescending when Sasuke swung his sword but because you can't see his face you conveniently deny that he did based on that alone - even though Sasuke is supposedly so fast that Madara couldn't react?

I'm seeing his face and he isn't smiling when he sees sasuke. He's smiling when he puts the sharingan into his eye. What part of "you're still fast, sasuke" is condescending? Surprise probably...

What did I miss?

The look on his face when he was in shock because of sasuke's new powers. Doesn't really matter though.

Uh, no? Madara decided to get his second eye after Naruto and Sasuke failed to seal him. He slipped away and decided it was best not to underestimate them while he wasn't at full power. You're not turning things on their head, you're rewriting events to suit your point.

He said not to underestimate them and decided to get his other eye before their combined attack. I'm reading madara's words. He used that attack to trick them and escape. He knew what to do before the attack.

Nope. You've failed to prove Sasuke became demonstrably faster because that isn't the case.

Like I said ems sasuke was as fast as kcm naruto but slower than juubito, who was even faster than bsm naruto. Now he's as fast as juubi jin madara who is as fast if not faster than juubito. He is as fast as a juubi jin so yes he did get faster.

Let's a few things straight. Madara's PS is much, much bigger than Sasuke's.

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Those meteors were not bigger than Hashirama's Shin Sūsenju which dwarfed Madara's PS.

Yes they were. Look at that page carefully you'll see debris from the meteor that were bigger than the mountains. Sasuke's may not be bigger than madara's but his is stronger. Much stronger.

No argument here.



The Yin-Yang Release negation effect is channelled through the Truth Seeking Balls as is not in constant affect. They're not made immune to ninjutsu at all. Look at Obito. He took an Enton/Rasengan combo with some damage before the TSB quenched the flames.

He never received any damage. The only damage he received was when naruto hit him with the rasengan

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. That was damage.

Sasuke's Chidori was likely Yin-enhanced. The Senjutsu he possesses is not the same as Sage Mode. It refers to Hagoromo's power.

Yea could be, with additional rikudo chakra boost

Sasuke is not a sensor type. He felt Naruto's chakra because it was immense, and Orochimaru thought it bothered him.

From another dimension Lol.

Because it's a Rinnegan. -.-



My reasoning isn't poor. I believe I've adequately demonstrated why yours is though.

I've debunked most of your points so yea. It's clear that you're either trolling, or writing some high end fan fiction.

 

[iKaras]

The only thing I dont get about sauce is that cooldown. That cooldown is inconsistent as hell.

 

[Sirius Black]

He just got owned that's a;;

 

[King Of Pop]

Was Sasuke really nerfed?

i think he was, but thats just me.

This means Sasuke gets from point A to B in literally no time. This, however, does not account for the physical speed required to attack, so these fanboy delusions of Sasuke instantly killing anyone in his way with a single move are pure fantasy.

its not fantasy considering he could have killed madara twice had he not had his juubi regenration. weaker characters than sasuke get a worse treatment, not rocket science.

Any individual with some common sense would question why Kishimoto gave Sasuke this particular ability. The answer is pretty damn simple.

ok lets see

Sasuke needs teleportation to keep up.

When it comes to actual speed, Sasuke does not top any list. He is not even top 5 if you consider the likes of Naruto, Madara, Minato, A, Tobirama, Third Raikage and Gai - just to name a few from the top of my head. However, with his teleportation technique, Sasuke can actually fight and potentially beat these characters.

when you mean keep up are you referring to speed wise or battle wise?? because he destroys half of those on your list even beofore he got hagoromos boost. just because hes slower than people like tobirama, minato(alive), a, 3rd raikage, gai(no 8th gate), etc does not mean he loses to them, what kind of crap logic is that? hes slower than juubito but he was able to track his movements and hold his own. currently his speed was fast enough to catch up to juubi madara earning a speed compliment, hes faster than those same people bar gai by far and you will be delusional to think otherwise.

Sasuke's teleportation ability is, for the most part anyway, the main reason he was so overhyped to begin with. Sasuke fanboys got in their heads that Sasuke was "owning" Madara with his new power, which couldn't be further from the truth, and of course they would have realised this if they had looked at the context of the situation.

he impaled him, hit him from both ends utilising naruto and bisected him so he was indeed owning madara, i dont see how thats not true. lets see your reasoning

And to prove my early point about context, let me breakdown the go-to scene Sasuke fanboys post to make their "point" that Sasuke is as fast as they claim he is. This Madara "versus" Sasuke panel is used quite a lot.

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The problem with this panel is that when Sasuke fanboys use it, they deliberately ignore all context.

ok lets see this so called "context" and i hope its not a downplay attempt.

Now never mind the fact Madara was smiling at Sasuke when he got bisected, if you recall the Konan VS Obito fight, using Kamui on himself made Madara vulnerable.

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lmao smiling??? as i suspected a pathetic downplay attempt. madara was not smiling so you can stop the fan fiction now.

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my friend is not smiling, rather its the face of someone who is desperate to get away as he just got cleaved.

Furthermore, Madara was being condescending about it towards Sasuke, because he knew that Sasuke's attack was inconsequential - which it was seeing as he was able to get this second Rinnegan and regenerate without problems.

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he was not condescensing and just because he can regenerate does not mean madara is stupid enough to willingly put himself in that kind of situation. he had no idea what shape obito was in the kamui dimension so i doubt he will want to risk half his body. beisdes this is not but your opinion, and interpretation.

Now let's take a look at Madara during his "fight" with Sasuke.

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looks like he is frowning to me. against gai he put a playful face and was laughing, here he is more serious so whateva point you are trying to make its safe to say it has backfired a bit.

As you can see there is a world of difference.

yes and that difference is he was more serious against sasuke and naruto than against gai

Both Gai and Sasuke had powers that were unknown quantities to Madara, but the big difference is that Gai was a much more dangerous opponent.

no he wasnt. madara ran to get his 2nd rinnegan when he was getting hit by sasukes jutsu, he never considered such against gai, he needed kamui to escape and he did so with the skin of his teeth. he would have been fodderized had he not done that.

Sasuke took him by surprise once, and even then Madara clearly did not give a shit and analysed the situation calmly. There was not a single moment in which Madara felt even close to being overwhelmed.

this is bs especially the bold. i guess you forgot that madara initially planned to

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, but after getting impaled and later hit he changed his mind and decided to go get his other rinnegan to compete. he changed his mind because he knew it would be impossible, sasuke was no sloch, in fact due to sasukes jutsu, madara knew he had no advantage in that battle. that shows he was indeed getting overwhelmed and it was mostly due to sasuke who the one landing the assaults on him. the mere fact that he ran away speaks volumes. madara fleeing from a battle is very rare and if he does it means the opponent or opponents are overwhelming him. sasuke merely used his s/t jutsu and speed plus chidori and it proved for him to have an edge over madara wereas gai went all out so theres a difference.

So, coming to a conclusion, was Sasuke really nerfed? I believe I've pretty much answered that question already by now. I don't think Sasuke was nerfed at all, I just think that his feats against Madara were overblown and taken out of context, which thus led to unreasonable expectations that Sasuke could not meet later on in his fight against Kaguya where it was revealed that his teleportation has a cool down period.

i was hoping for a non biased thread, its usually hard to see this now adays especially when it involves sasuke. all you did was use your personal interpretation on some panels mixed with a bit of fan fiction in some of your points. sasuke did trouble madara, the latter couldnt land a single hit on him during that encounter and when he ran sasuke could still not only just catch up to him but bisect his ass with madara barely escaping, he was actually lucky sasuke didnt know he could kamui or else after slashing him, sasuke could have easily turned quickly and finished him. lack of intel there was his sasukes undoing, people use the excuse for madara but the funny thing it is also applicable to sasuke

Sasuke was not nerfed. He simply was not as powerful as his fanboys believed him to be, and now that's become clear, they're mad because they're embarrassed.

cool if only you had used good and non biased logic to explain it. with half of hagoromos power flowing in him am pretty sure fans would expcet sasuke to be doing much better than hes done for past 3 or 4 ch, nothing wrong with that. kishi hasnt finished with him tho so i expect more.