Was Nagato getting Madara's eyes ever explained?

[Tantalus Thief]

Obito gave them to him that's all we know. Plus that they are Maddys eyes of course.

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He had Rinnegan before Madara took Obito in.
OP: idk. He sent Zetsu to put his eyes in.

 

[KesOnFire]

He had Rinnegan before Madara took Obito in.
OP: idk. He sent Zetsu to put his eyes in.

ummm yea I think so only explanation is zetsu gave nagato the eyes.

 

[solorflare99]

Do people really still think Obito gave Nagato his eyes? Give that man an Emmy.

 

[Floydical]

He would have died he left the tree.

I made a thread that raised concerns about this very issue a long time ago. My explanation was that he did his work before he actually required the tree to keep him alive. The time between giving up the Rinnegan and his encounter with Obito might have left him significantly weaker, thus requiring the tree to sustain him.

Spiral Zetsu was most of the time attached to the Gedo Mazou. At that point Madara had Rinnegan, so if he used Spiral Zetsu as a suit; he could get enough of a boost to travel to Nagato's location; summon the Gedo Mazou, re-attach himself, Destroy the Uzumaki Village with the Gedo Mazou, (Does it fit in the timeline ? I will have to ask ISOKOROPS), trace Nagato, put him in Genjutsu and transplant his eyes.

You guys also seem to forget that Nagato was a cripple yet traveled from the Rain Village to Konoha just with Konan's help. Madara on the other hand had a whole troupe of White Zetsus to help him.

The hint that supports this is the Tobi Persona. It consisted of three identities : Spiral Zetsu, Obito and Madara. Tobi (Obito/Spiral) used Madara's name so I think it might hint that Madara used Spiral at one point. Plus Madara calls Obito his successor implying the transfer of Spiral Zetsu from Madara to Obito.

And for those who think Spiral was formed when Obito was brought into the Hideout; the answer is nope; Spiral was formed by Madara a few years after he summoned Gedo Mazou and Spiral was attached to the Gedo to re-supply his chakra.



Nice point ! In that case, I would assume Madara put his parents under Genjutsu as well and later staged their deaths by Konoha Ninjas to trigger Nagato's Rinnegan ?

Just throwing out ideas. :lol

I seem to recall Zetsu telling Obito about how Madara put the eyes in Nagato, in a way that he wasn't a witness to the event. What I mean is that I find it likely Zetsu not only wasn't with Madara on the journey, but that Madara might not have created him by that time. What I'm saying is that I think Madara was alone when he transplanted the eyes and didn't have Zetsu's help.

 

[Pukkake Pokayo]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=19491339" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-19491339">SatanicGod said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent"> Eyes are the only part of the body that never grow or shrink, it's the eyelids that make it seem like they grow our shrink over time </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink"><a>Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>I did think that was a possibility. Even so. It was a perfect fit? *strokes chin*<br /> <br /> There's still the parents bit. His parenylts were murdered in front of him and he hsd the rinnegan. So it was swapped before then at sometime.</div>

 

[SatanicGod]

I did think that was a possibility. Even so. It was a perfect fit? *strokes chin*

There's still the parents bit. His parenylts were murdered in front of him and he hsd the rinnegan. So it was swapped before then at sometime.

I believe that White Zetsu killed Nagato's parents, I find it hard to believe that shinobi would actually overlook the fact that the kid had the most haxxed eyes yet didn't try to take them and/or the child's life to prevent any kind of retaliation...

 

[SatanicGod]

I made a thread that raised concerns about this very issue a long time ago. My explanation was that he did his work before he actually required the tree to keep him alive. The time between giving up the Rinnegan and his encounter with Obito might have left him significantly weaker, thus requiring the tree to sustain him.



I seem to recall Zetsu telling Obito about how Madara put the eyes in Nagato, in a way that he wasn't a witness to the event. What I mean is that I find it likely Zetsu not only wasn't with Madara on the journey, but that Madara might not have created him by that time. What I'm saying is that I think Madara was alone when he transplanted the eyes and didn't have Zetsu's help.

But that would basically retcon the fact Madara awakened the Rinnegan as an old man, and he couldn't have transplanted the Rinnegan himself since he was stuck to the Gedo or he would die, and couldn't have transplanted the eyes right after awakening them because then how would he summon the Gedo or read the Uchiha Tablet?

 

[Honord Sage]

Did I miss something?

Madara did it so with the Uzumaki large chakra reserves He could be brought back to life but Nagato died before all the tail beast could be aded to the jutsu and Obito decided that He did not need or want Madara back. Obito told Madara why He did not carry out the original plan.

 

[King Of Pop]

am guessing zetsu did it while nagato was very young

 

[Floydical]

I believe that White Zetsu killed Nagato's parents, I find it hard to believe that shinobi would actually overlook the fact that the kid had the most haxxed eyes yet didn't try to take them and/or the child's life to prevent any kind of retaliation...

To everyone going on about Nagato's Rinnegan, clearly he didn't have it active at all times. When Madara implanted it in him, he likely couldn't maintain it just like Kakashi can't sustain the Sharigan well. It more than likely went dormant right after it was implanted. Only after he aged a bit and suffered a great loss (like MS requirements) was he able to harness and maintain it. That's why they never noticed when he was a boy, he didn't have it activated.

But that would basically retcon the fact Madara awakened the Rinnegan as an old man, and he couldn't have transplanted the Rinnegan himself since he was stuck to the Gedo or he would die, and couldn't have transplanted the eyes right after awakening them because then how would he summon the Gedo or read the Uchiha Tablet?

First of all, here is the page I'm talking about.

Spoiler

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This directly implies that Madara did all that before ever creating Zetsu. So to everyone theorizing about Zetsu helping Madara out, its a fantasy. I theorize the events went like this:

He awakens Rinnegan and having planned that entire time, summons the Mazou in the cave and immediately sets out to give Nagato the Rinnegan. He could have fathered that child long ago and got him adopted. Or he identified and watched some Senju families and knew which families he might target the swap with when the time came. Remember, he was planning this forever.

He might have still been mobile at that time and don't forget he could literally fly with Rinnegan (summons of course) so mobility is not a problem.... for half the trip at least. He likely began degrading in health shortly thereafter, and only later did the attachment to the Mazou become a requirement. All of this would have been possible without Zetsu.

Only after he returned from the journey did he start harvesting the Zetsu from the Mazou.

 

[ROHAN]

You're making massive assumptions there and its pretty obvious Kishi wasn't thinking that.

Bold: He would have to regrow another tree and he wouldn't be able to that after giving his eyes.

Nah, I would say it does make sense. It all fits together very well. You can't say Kishi didn't think of this route; he always plans his story way in advance. People are saying it's bad writing; but it's not. Kishi has not yet expanded on this plotline at all. He perhaps intends to do it when Spiral Zetsu makes a comeback in the story again. (That's another thread material, so let's not go there).

Bold: Nope, he only needs the Gedo Mazou; he doesn't need the Tree. The Tree is only used to grow White Zetsus. Madara could attach himself to the Gedo Mazou by two ways :-

A) By Wood Release : He can use Wood Release and make those pipes to re-attach himself to the Gedo Mazou. Plus, With Spiral's Gedo Chakra; he could very well make a tree on the spot itself to re-connect with Gedo.

Or

B) Black Rods : Madara by using his Black Rods could absorb chakra from the Gedo Mazou thus powering him remotely. The Gedo Mazou used the Black Rods to sap out chakra from Nagato; so Madara could also use the same to remotely absorb chakra from the Gedo.

Also, Madara doesn't need the Rinnegan to be able to use Wood Release. That ability comes not from his Rinnegan but from Senju DNA. He perhaps kidnapped Nagato, altered his memories in his hideout, gave him the Rinnegan and told the Zetsus to take Nagato back.

That way, Madara gave away the Rinnegan, but he still had the Mazou and the Tree.

Or perhaps the Konoha ninja's were actually White Zetsu that were under orders from Madara to kill Nagato's parents using some random fodders as a disguise... It seems fishy that two shinobi that are at war would let a child live...

The Konoha Shinobis accidentally killed Nagato's parents; so it's not like an elaborate plan had being laid out. The Konoha Ninjas were perhaps also put in a genjutsu to do the dirty work of Madara ? Hard to Tell, if you ask me. I wonder if the whole Obito fiasco was also staged by Madara.

Wait when did he kill Hashirama??

We all thought the Tobi persona was first created by Obito when he took over Spiral Zetsu. But Tobi using Madara's name tells me that Madara used Spiral as a suit way before Obito. Once Madara died at VOTE; he obviously wanted to stay undercover; so the Spiral Zetsu's Tobi disguise was a perfect coverup to kill Hashirama (I doubt Hashirama can stand up against the Gedo, Wood release and a Rinnegan for long).

Also, I asked ISOKORPS; the timeline guy :

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He said this :-

Yes, according to my Timeline, Madara had awakened his Rinnegan before the destruction of the Hidden Whirling Tides village.

This means Madara awakened the Rinnegan, summoned the Gedo Mazou, grew the White Zetsus and Spiral, used Spiral as a power suit, traveled to the Land of Whirlpools, summoned the Gedo to destroy the Uzumaki Village, kidnapped Nagato and then transplanted the Rinnegan.

I seem to recall Zetsu telling Obito about how Madara put the eyes in Nagato, in a way that he wasn't a witness to the event. What I mean is that I find it likely Zetsu not only wasn't with Madara on the journey, but that Madara might not have created him by that time. What I'm saying is that I think Madara was alone when he transplanted the eyes and didn't have Zetsu's help.

Who knows, Spiral was perhaps saying that in Third Person. Or he was tricking Obito into believing that the Zetsus had no role in the Nagato Rinnegan conspiracy. Spiral perhaps wanted to hide the fact that Madara had used him way before Obito to bypass his old age restrictions.

Underlined is important. If Obito had known this; he would have immediately figured out that Madara was behind everything; cause if he used Spiral; he won't be stuck in his cave forever.

Obito did not know who the Mist ninjas were working under who tried to kill Kakashi and Rin. Madara did behave suspiciously but Obito was under the assumption that being stuck to the Gedo, he wouldn't be able to do anything.

But, I think Madara used Spiral to travel to the Mist Village and set up the conspiracy while Obito was unconscious (His Rehabilitation process put him through many fainting/sleep phases [On that topic, Madara had a fainting wood release jutsu, he perhaps used that to knock Obito out for extended periods of time ? :

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: Madara perhaps used the Gedo Tree to knock Obito out]).

First of all, here is the page I'm talking about.

Spoiler

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In my opinion, that page actually supports that Madara did need the Zetsus and Spiral.

Madara says this "When I was on the verge of Death, I awakened the Rinnegan".

Madara was already dying and perhaps the Near-Death process awakened his Rinnegan. He then summoned the Gedo Mazou on his last legs and immediately attached himself to the Gedo (Think back to what happened with Nagato). After that Madara would be incapacitated until he grew the White Zetsus and Spiral.

Madara wanted to stay undercover and I don't think that's happening if Madara has a giant statue walking behind him all the time.

Or we can assume that Madara used the Black Rods to bypass the connection to the tree. So, in that case; he perhaps didn't need the Zetsus at all. But I think the plot potential is more if the Zetsus were involved.

 

[Ansatsuken]

It just happen

 

[SatanicGod]

To everyone going on about Nagato's Rinnegan, clearly he didn't have it active at all times. When Madara implanted it in him, he likely couldn't maintain it just like Kakashi can't sustain the Sharigan well. It more than likely went dormant right after it was implanted. Only after he aged a bit and suffered a great loss (like MS requirements) was he able to harness and maintain it. That's why they never noticed when he was a boy, he didn't have it activated.



First of all, here is the page I'm talking about.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

This directly implies that Madara did all that before ever creating Zetsu. So to everyone theorizing about Zetsu helping Madara out, its a fantasy. I theorize the events went like this:

He awakens Rinnegan and having planned that entire time, summons the Mazou in the cave and immediately sets out to give Nagato the Rinnegan. He could have fathered that child long ago and got him adopted. Or he identified and watched some Senju families and knew which families he might target the swap with when the time came. Remember, he was planning this forever.

He might have still been mobile at that time and don't forget he could literally fly with Rinnegan (summons of course) so mobility is not a problem.... for half the trip at least. He likely began degrading in health shortly thereafter, and only later did the attachment to the Mazou become a requirement. All of this would have been possible without Zetsu.

Only after he returned from the journey did he start harvesting the Zetsu from the Mazou.

Then what about the fact that he also read the tablet after awakening Rinnegan. Also, the scan only implies that he did it before making Spiral Zetsu, but White Zetsu predates Spiral by a long shot.

 

[Torche]

Yes and no. It was not a detailed explanation. All we were given was that:

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We didn't literally see him do it. We don't know the means by which he did it, etc.

 

[ROHAN]

Then what about the fact that he also read the tablet after awakening Rinnegan. Also, the scan only implies that he did it before making Spiral Zetsu, but White Zetsu predates Spiral by a long shot.

I would say Spiral was saying a lie there. His statement is neither supported by White or Black Zetsu. On top of that in the next panel, White Zetsu immediately changes the topic rather than explaining more on how it happened. This tells me they were hiding something from Obito. Obito was just a puppet and was falsely deluded by Madara, telling him the truth would ruin Madara and Black Zetsu's plans.


A big mistake that many readers do is they take what characters say at face value and accept it as Truth. This is a wrong thought process because many of the bad characters say downright lies (Like Obito saying he was Madara to start a war) or are themselves deluded by lies (Like how what Madara himself stated about the tablet is questionable cause Black Zetsu changed it).

What Madara says about awakening Rinnegan near death is the truth cause not only Madara supports it (He had nothing to gain from lying here) but Black Zetsu the real mastermind also supports it once Kaguya was revived.

 

[SatanicGod]

I would say Spiral was saying a lie there. His statement is neither supported by White or Black Zetsu. On top of that in the next panel, White Zetsu immediately changes the topic rather than explaining more on how it happened. This tells me they were hiding something from Obito. Obito was just a puppet and was falsely deluded by Madara, telling him the truth would ruin Madara and Black Zetsu's plans.


A big mistake that many readers do is they take what characters say at face value and accept it as Truth. This is a wrong thought process because many of the bad characters say downright lies (Like Obito saying he was Madara to start a war) or are themselves deluded by lies (Like how what Madara himself stated about the tablet is questionable cause Black Zetsu changed it).

What Madara says about awakening Rinnegan near death is the truth cause not only Madara supports it (He had nothing to gain from lying here) but Black Zetsu the real mastermind also supports it once Kaguya was revived.

What would Spiral Zetsu have to lie about? In the scan he was simply saying that Nagato has Madara's eyes... And BZ went on to explain why, not really changing the subject. And normally it isn't really a big deal as to how it was done, just that it got done

 

[darthvader5666]

Either he gave his eyes to a Zetsu who gave them to Nagato. Or he had Zetsu bring Nagato to his cave, genjutsu'd Nagato and gave his eyes to Nagato then.

Though you'd think both would be noticed by Nagato's parents...

 

[Mikeuhsomething36]

dont get the wrong idea...cuz the zetsus emerged only after madara found obito

What? Are we even reading the same manga? Last time I checked black zetsu encountered madara face to face after Madara Izanagi'd back to life, last time I checked the gedo contained white zetsus before hand as they were past infinite tsukyomi victims, last time I checked madara couldn't leave the cave and had white zetsus as surveillance. Going to have to do Bette than that to disprove Aizemdara :Sparks:

 

[Natsu Shazneel]

Yes you missed getting some new glasses. Since you forgot how to read.

Thank you and Hinata solos.

 

[MAN OF SIN]

Yes you missed getting some new glasses. Since you forgot how to read.

Thank you and Hinata solos.

No it wasn't.