War Arc SM Naruto & Edo Tobirama VS Edo Itachi & EMS Sasuke

[Anbu Knights]

You must be registered for see images

VS

You must be registered for see images

Location: Guy vs Madara
Distance: 50 Meters
Knowledge: Full
Restrictions: Legged Susanoo, Edo Tensei, Izanami​

 

[Oblivionx]

Uchihas win this for obvious reason.

 

[Byakuren]

You didn't even restrict Tsukuyomi... And Itachi has unlimited chakra? Itachi spams this: Spoiler You must be registered for see images Swarming both Tobirama, and Naruto in an endless flock of crows. Itachi then executes Tsukuyomi through his crows (because obviously eye contact with the crows will be made, even if Itachi has to force it through Ephemeral, or get Sasuke to force either opponents to open their eyes). Once Tsukuyomi makes contact it's pretty much over honestly. Spoiler You must be registered for see images By far a one-sided battle in my opinion just on the preface Itachi's chakra isn't limited, and he can spam a massive area-engrossing technique that can execute all of his techniques. Edo Itachi could probably solo honestly. I'm under the impression you're simply restricting immortality, rather than chakra reserves.

​

 

[KidGamer65]

Uchiha Bros win mid difficulty at worst.

 

[Anbu Knights]

Maybe I'm overestimating clone/hirashin combos, but I honestly though Tobirama + Naruto would do better lol.

 

[Anbu Knights]

Uchiha Bros win mid difficulty at worst.

Would KCM Naruto fare better / make things interesting? I'm sure BM is too much.

 

[KidGamer65]

The combos are nice and all, but the main purpose of Hiraishin is to hit the opponent before they can defend themselves, but Susanoo is a defense that doesn't go down unless the user purposely puts it down and Naruto nor Tobirama have the power to breach it, and these two can spam their jutsu almost all day while Tobirama and Naruto can't dodge all day.

Then there's Kirin, but it's not even needed. It's just a sure fire kill.

Would KCM Naruto fare better / make things interesting?

The issues still remain the same. They can't breach Susanoo. They stand a much better chance of winning than before though because KCM Naruto actually has the speed to not be raped by Itachi and Sasuke's moves without Tobirama's help, but FRS can't breach Susanoo, COFRS gets hit with Amaterasu and blitzes are pointless due to that fact.

 

[Byakuren]

The combos are nice and all, but the main purpose of Hiraishin is to hit the opponent before they can defend themselves, but Susanoo is a defense that doesn't go down unless the user purposely puts it down and Naruto nor Tobirama have the power to breach it, and these two can spam their jutsu almost all day while Tobirama and Naruto can't dodge all day.

Then there's Kirin, but it's not even needed. It's just a sure fire kill.



The issues still remain the same. They can't breach Susanoo. They stand a much better chance of winning than before though because KCM Naruto actually has the speed to not be raped by Itachi and Sasuke's moves without Tobirama's help, but FRS can't breach Susanoo, COFRS gets hit with Amaterasu and blitzes are pointless due to that fact.

I'm under the impression even with the speed boost KCM Naruto receives he'd still be caught in Genjutsu just based on the fact that he'd still have to go through the flock of crows. Itachi could surround himself, as well the surrounding areas near him with crows. Once KCM Naruto, and Tobirama enter range there is no evading eye contact in my honest opinion. Once eye contact is established Tsukuyomi pretty much one shots.

​

 

[KidGamer65]

I'm under the impression even with the speed boost KCM Naruto receives he'd still be caught in Genjutsu just based on the fact that he'd still have to go through the flock of crows. Itachi could surround himself, as well the surrounding areas near him with crows. Once KCM Naruto, and Tobirama enter range there is no evading eye contact in my honest opinion. Once eye contact is established Tsukuyomi pretty much one shots.

​

Itachi doesn't cast Genjutsu through the crows, I'm pretty sure that was part of the Genjutsu. Sharingan Genjutsu is eye contact with his Sharingan. CQC is a bad idea against Susanoo anyway so their best bet would be to use long range techs like FRS, COFRS and have Tobirama blow himself up to use Gojo. If they aren't in at least mid or close range with them making any kind of eye contact is going to be impossible when:

-They know about it.
-They can sense their presence.
-They are far away from them.
-They are in Susanoo, which means they can fight as effectively as normal while simply making the Susanoo their focal point as that will be the target of all their attacks.

 

[Byakuren]

Itachi doesn't cast Genjutsu through the crows, I'm pretty sure that was part of the Genjutsu. Sharingan Genjutsu is eye contact with his Sharingan. CQC is a bad idea against Susanoo anyway so their best bet would be to use long range techs like FRS, COFRS and have Tobirama blow himself up to use Gojo. If they aren't in at least mid or close range with them making any kind of eye contact is going to be impossible when:

-They know about it.
-They can sense their presence.
-They are far away from them.
-They are in Susanoo, which means they can fight as effectively as normal while simply making the Susanoo their focal point as that will be the target of all their attacks.

I think it was Genjutsu applied through the crows, because you see the exclamation mark in Naruto's dialogue bubble? That signifies surprise/a moment of realization etc. Also why else would they specifically highlight a panel showcasing his crows having Sharingan? It's similar to how Nagato's Animal Path summons had the Rinnegan is each of their eyes.

​

 

[KidGamer65]

I think it was Genjutsu applied through the crows, because you see the exclamation mark in Naruto's dialogue bubble? That signifies surprise/a moment of realization etc. Also why else would they specifically highlight a panel showcasing his crows having Sharingan? It's similar to how Nagato's Animal Path summons had the Rinnegan is each of their eyes.

​

That exclamation mark was for Itachi forming his body w/ crows. Before that exclamation Itachi already told Naruto he was already in Genjutsu, so it couldn't have been via the crows. If you are referring to

You must be registered for see links

then that's a reaction to seeing a crow in a Genjutsu, meaning Naruto realized he was caught already, and since he was caught already it couldn't have been from him looking at the crow. They highlighted a panel of his crow having Sharingan to signify that Naruto had been caught, not because the crow itself caught him.

And it's definitely not the same thing because Nagato's Animal Path summons only have that because of the Animal Path summoning jutsu. No reason why Itachi's crows would have his Sharingan in their eyes when he's not using any special jutsu.

 

[BlacLord™]

Maybe I'm overestimating clone/hirashin combos, but I honestly though Tobirama + Naruto would do better lol.

SM Naruto is the weak link in this match up. But yeah, seeing as Tobirama and him were able to hit Juubito, Team 2 aren't having an easy time.

 

[adeshina365]

Team 2 low-mid diff.

Sasuke can solo since SM Naruto is largely a non-factor.

 

[Byakuren]

That exclamation mark was for Itachi forming his body w/ crows. Before that exclamation Itachi already told Naruto he was already in Genjutsu, so it couldn't have been via the crows. If you are referring to

You must be registered for see links

then that's a reaction to seeing a crow in a Genjutsu, meaning Naruto realized he was caught already, and since he was caught already it couldn't have been from him looking at the crow. They highlighted a panel of his crow having Sharingan to signify that Naruto had been caught, not because the crow itself caught him.

And it's definitely not the same thing because Nagato's Animal Path summons only have that because of the Animal Path summoning jutsu. No reason why Itachi's crows would have his Sharingan in their eyes when he's not using any special jutsu.

Hm... I see. Why would you be against the inference Itachi could manipulate jutsu through his crows however? He was shown to perform Susano'o through a crow clone vs Kabuto. Why would Genjutsu not be plausible?

​

 

[KidGamer65]

Hm... I see. Why would you be against the inference Itachi could manipulate jutsu through his crows however? He was shown to perform Susano'o through a crow clone vs Kabuto. Why would Genjutsu not be plausible?

​

Because there's no actual link between him and his crows until he actually makes clones out of them, which is why he was able to do what you said in the bold. But what you are showing in the scans and proposing is that his crows not in a clone form can use his abilities.

-Chakra is projected on crows.
-They become clones of Itachi.
-They can use his abilities.
-Once said clone takes damage or once it disperses back into crows the clone jutsu is undone and they become ordinary crows again.

 

[Byakuren]

Because there's no actual link between him and his crows until he actually makes clones out of them, which is why he was able to do what you said in the bold. But what you are showing in the scans and proposing is that his crows not in a clone form can use his abilities.

-Chakra is projected on crows.
-They become clones of Itachi.
-They can use his abilities.
-Once said clone takes damage or once it disperses back into crows the clone jutsu is undone and they become ordinary crows again.

Okay, now that that's out of the way here's my next question. Do you believe the crows contain Itachi's chakra? Do you believe they can contain his chakra? I believe so. Remember when Naruto used his chakra to transform Gamabunta into Kurama? Doesn't shape manipulation require the injecting of chakra into said source to do such? If that's the case, Itachi subjecting his crow summons to his chakra, then it'd be plausible for his crows to use his technique because instead of being simply compacted together to form said clone, when they dispersed they'd still have his chakra inside of them, being able to use his arsenal. This is reinforced by the fact chakra = information (i.e. the Amaterasu seal Itachi transferred through to Sasuke). What's your thoughts on that?

​

 

[KidGamer65]

Okay, now that that's out of the way here's my next question. Do you believe the crows contain Itachi's chakra? Do you believe they can contain his chakra? I believe so. Remember when Naruto used his chakra to transform Gamabunta into Kurama? Doesn't shape manipulation require the injecting of chakra into said source to do such? If that's the case, Itachi subjecting his crow summons to his chakra, then it'd be plausible for his crows to use his technique because instead of being simply compacted together to form said clone, when they dispersed they'd still have his chakra inside of them, being able to use his arsenal. This is reinforced by the fact chakra = information (i.e. the Amaterasu seal Itachi transferred through to Sasuke). What's your thoughts on that?

​

Yeah, but if they do then that'd be his crow clone jutsu. If you mean can he simply transfer his chakra to them without using the clone jutsu then yeah, that'd be possible, but would they be able to use his techniques? No. The chakra is being used to perform the clone jutsu, and that's why the crows can perform his jutsu, cause they are clones. Simply possessing someone's chakra doesn't mean you can use all their abilities. Cases like Kisame, Yoroi, and especially Kabuto disprove that. Kabuto had Oro's chakra and the Sound 5's chakra yet he's stated to need their DNA+ a special Senjutsu technique to be able to make use of their jutsu.

 

[NarutoX28]

SM Naruto is the weak link in this match up. But yeah, seeing as Tobirama and him were able to hit Juubito, Team 2 aren't having an easy time.

Obito allowed them to hit him because he didn't expect that he would have a crippling weakness to Senjutsu by virtue of being the embodiment of Hagoromo's strength.

 

[Byakuren]

Yeah, but if they do then that'd be his crow clone jutsu. If you mean can he simply transfer his chakra to them without using the clone jutsu then yeah, that'd be possible, but would they be able to use his techniques? No. The chakra is being used to perform the clone jutsu, and that's why the crows can perform his jutsu, cause they are clones. Simply possessing someone's chakra doesn't mean you can use all their abilities. Cases like Kisame, Yoroi, and especially Kabuto disprove that. Kabuto had Oro's chakra and the Sound 5's chakra yet he's stated to need their DNA+ a special Senjutsu technique to be able to make use of their jutsu.

With this fact in mind, and the fact his crows are able to contain his chakra, wouldn't Itachi be able to use a similar style of technique as Deidara? Clone Explosion is basically Explosion Release, with the same execution etc. Deidara imbues his chakra into the clay, and then detonates the object with his chakra. Itachi creates a clone (which is imbued with chakra), and detonates the object with his chakra. This signifies that Itachi is able to execute techniques through objects that contain his chakra. Thoughts?

​

 

[Warlocks]

Uchiha wins