Well...."react". He was caught off guard and the best he could do was raise a single arm, probably instinctively even, but we saw how that turned out, didn't we?
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Also if we dissect everything that took place Sasuke only truly got dominated after getting blasted downward by Naruto's chakra roar , Logically that would've altered his Los temporarily meanwhile Naruto was already blitzing towards him, and both were hindered under water but sasuke even more so due to the scenario he was in.
Well, yeah, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm trying to argue towards, which is that his Sharingan is struggling to keep up with him, to the point where he is actually caught off guard by Naruto, as shown by the exclamation points and the fact that he is looking to the side, where Naruto is probably coming from rather than up, where he was moments ago.
By portrayed feats he was using his Byakugan to keep track of Gated Lee which makes sense since with Byakugan his Los would be on the whole area , nd by description it also has the ability to sense attacks and quickly track the movement of Chakra along with anticipate the use of shunshin due to steady build-up.
I agree with the Shunshin, but neither Naruto nor Lee are solely relying on Shunshin for their speed. Plus, he is still tracking Lee from a distance, which shouldn't be as hard as tracking someone blitzing left and right around him. Distance affects speed perception. Its the reason why when you see a plane in the sky, it looks like its flying slowly when in truth its easily going over a hundred miles an hour.
This is true about Naruto bein faster than a barrage of kunai coming from 50m , but consider the distance between each kunai he was forced to dodge at a moments notice , then add the time he would need to avoid each kunai in response to their distance between each other and sheer numbers in accordance to the distance from Neji so we can conclude how many dodges he did in the time frame it takes for a kunai to zip pass him.
I myself am trying to gauge the reaction feat so the help would be great and is part of the reason i made this thread.
Well, that speaks for how much he can perceive, which as we agreed, is a lot. It doesn't speak that much as for how fast an object can his eyes track, which is pivotal in this fight's result.
Also, I am overanalyzing this as much as anyone else, but when you start to bring math into it, I think it starts to get stupid.
This is contradicting because its confirmed that Lee without his weights is no match for Neji's reaction which means his speed wasn't too far off from that of Lee's and his SRA Arc feat of blitzing kido while literally chakra empty (Which reduces speed) , proved that Neji is in fact a speedster in more ways than one especially considering his condition before the blitz + distance traveled>>>time it took to get to the falling kido.
No, Neji is not a speedster and he can't match Lee in sheer speed. Part 1 Neji's best speed feat to date is matching one blow from the Kyuubi enhanced Naruto in the Chunin Exams. However, he does make up largely for it in agility feats. The difference in between agility feats and speed feats is, in fact, pretty simple.
Sasuke closing in the large distance in between himself and Naruto in a moment's notice is a speed feat.
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The Raikage dodging Naruto's Rasenshuriken when its like two feet away from hitting him is an agility feat.
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Just because one can move in short bursts of speed in a very small amount of time, (Agilty) it doesn't mean they can do the same for a larger distance. (Speed)
He was forced to avoid the daggers point blank , how is that not speed tracking when he had so many tight maneuvers to accomplish within millisecond intervals each? he literally had to nigh instantly count each and every attack which were launched simultaneously from all angles right??
Could u elaborate more on the bold?[QUOTE/]
By that I speak for his ability to see and keep track of an object moving at high speeds. Example being how Sasuke was having trouble with Naruto until he gained his three tomoe Sharingan, which allowed him to see his movements far better than with his two tomoe Sharingan and allowed him to counterattack. Thus why I'm making a deal out of the kunai.
Only he would see him coming , a straight forward attack wont wtf blitz him and Byakugan 360 and attack sense allows him to see where Naruto is and where his Chakra moves. The question is if he can react which is wat im trying to gauge in these discussions by assessing his reaction feats against kido's barrages lol.
Neji noticed these daggers long after they were shot and the daggers were wat , 3 to 2 feet away from him? considering he had to react to the Giant spiders webs beforehand else risk getting restrained and collecting every single dagger , it means Neji was able to pull off more than 30 dodges in wat would likely be milliseconds between each dodge and based on the timing of his awareness to the attacks>>distance already reached , it can be assumed that he was able to cut the webs followed by completing a sequence of over 20+ dodges in under 3 seconds or so based on how close the attacks were before he noticed them coming.
Not exactly sure what you are trying to prove with this. Not only do you run into literally the same problem as before, you being unable to show that these have the speed to give Neji a feat that lets him dodge Naruto, but he got hit here.
So unlike the other dagger wave attacks where Neji noticed them coming outside his 50m range , he noticed these specific attacks coming muchh much later than the others at a much closer distance of wat can be assumed to be a couple feet due to the elaborate set-up , not to mention having much more to deal with like the surprise cluster grab of giant spider webbing that needed to be dealt with before evading even a single dagger when said daggers were already only a few feet away from him , before he even began to physically react to their already in motion velocity + the already descending webs which would reduce the distance of his reaction to the daggers to even less than 3 feet , Then finally considering that the attacks were bombarded on him in waves puts his mental and tight physical evasive reaction at a very insane level compared to his earlier feat of bein able to dodge daggers he actually saw coming from 50m away.
C'mon man. There's no point in discussing this if you are going to fill all your arguments with fluff. None of these numbers actually proves that Neji can dodge Naruto like this when there isn't evidence proving that Kidomaru's attacks are faster than KN0. There's no point in bringing all these numbers up when Sasuke and Neji are on the same speed tier while KN0 has proven to be FAR faster than Sasuke. 3-T Sasuke had the reflexes due to Sharingan but there is zero proof Neji matches that. Your arguments have no reference point that'd help you here which is why I can't respond with an actual counter argument. Your argument boils down to:
"Neji dodged a bunch of fast (don't know how fast) objects on panel so he should be able to not only dodge someone much faster than him, but he should be able to dodge all his attacks and deflect all his attacks and embarrass him in close combat".
:lol 3 feet is close, but when you are fighting someone much faster than you in CQC the distance between you and the opponent isn't even close to a foot. There's no comparison. Instead of making these abstract points, answer this:
How is Neji, who isn't that much faster than Sasuke in Base and definitely not faster than Sasuke when he's using the Curse Mark in terms of raw speed, who is definitely not as reflexive as 3-Tomoe Sasuke going to defeat KN0 in CQC with the method you describe? Doesn't make sense when Neji needs to be faster in movement and/or reaction. And he's not faster in either.
I agree with ur above statements regarding physical power but it did show that Neji could keep up without trouble , and the Bold depends on ur reaction to my above quote.
No, it doesn't show anything. He's not keeping up in speed there nor is he keeping up in physical strength since clashing with bladed weapons in that specific manner doesn't mean you need to rival someone's strength.
It was enough for him to spit blood , then considering it had to plow through katon before getting to Sasuke not to mention it would be unpredictable and leave Sasuke open for attack when he decides to evade then add a few clones ultilzing the same thing and i see Sasuke having allot of problems actually , since he fighting style against Naruto depended on him allowing Naruto to make the first moves in order to make use of his precog.
Once again, he spat no blood. Not sure what you are looking at. Not to mention if he took damage it'd be from the roar+being slammed into the water not from the roar alone. So you don't have a point there either. If he evades he simply counters Naruto's clone. A weak diversion like a roar isn't going to let his clones take out Sasuke when Sasuke can already shit stomp the real Naruto with literally zero effort after getting the 3-Tomoe. Not sure why you are trying to argue this when the manga already showed us Sasuke beating the tar out of Naruto. If clones or a roar would've let him win he wouldn't have needed to enter 1TK. An expanded cloak is irrelevant.
Not exactly sure what you are trying to prove with this. Not only do you run into literally the same problem as before, you being unable to show that these have the speed to give Neji a feat that lets him dodge Naruto, but he got hit here.
I was just lining in detail the difference between his reaction to the daggers he already saw coming from 50m , and the ones he was forced to at point-blank without seeing them beforehand.
-Yes he did get hit , but only by 3 daggers out of wat seems to be 30+ that he had to react to at close to point blank range , after dealing the surprise giant webbing descending from above him , also sorry for the numbers but im just trying to gauge the feats with ur help man i already said this lol.
:lol 3 feet is close, but when you are fighting someone much faster than you in CQC the distance between you and the opponent isn't even close to a foot. There's no comparison. Instead of making these abstract points, answer this:
How is Neji, who isn't that much faster than Sasuke in Base and definitely not faster than Sasuke when he's using the Curse Mark in terms of raw speed, who is definitely not as reflexive as 3-Tomoe Sasuke going to defeat KN0 in CQC with the method you describe? Doesn't make sense when Neji needs to be faster in movement and/or reaction. And he's not faster in either.
Lol sorry bout them numbers man Lol , I agree that both Sasuke and Neji are on the same tier of speed , but these feats puts Neji's agility in tight quarters beyond that of Base 2T Sasuke in terms of raw body movement feats between the two right??
No, it doesn't show anything. He's not keeping up in speed there nor is he keeping up in physical strength since clashing with bladed weapons in that specific manner doesn't mean you need to rival someone's strength.
They didn't clash with bladed weapons tho , they physically clashed flesh to flesh in simultaneous accordance to the Kunai they both threw a panel earlier.
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-Neji wasn't shown having any problems keeping up with his speed in that fight and only went for kaiten due to the Chakra.
Once again, he spat no blood. Not sure what you are looking at. Not to mention if he took damage it'd be from the roar+being slammed into the water not from the roar alone. So you don't have a point there either.
If he evades he simply counters Naruto's clone. A weak diversion like a roar isn't going to let his clones take out Sasuke when Sasuke can already shit stomp the real Naruto with literally zero effort after getting the 3-Tomoe. Not sure why you are trying to argue this when the manga already showed us Sasuke beating the tar out of Naruto. If clones or a roar would've let him win he wouldn't have needed to enter 1TK. An expanded cloak is irrelevant.
I was just lining in detail the difference between his reaction to the daggers he already saw coming from 50m , and the ones he was forced to at point-blank without seeing them beforehand.
-Yes he did get hit , but only by 3 daggers out of wat seems to be 30+ that he had to react to at close to point blank range , after dealing the surprise giant webbing descending from above him , also sorry for the numbers but im just trying to gauge the feats with ur help man i already said this lol.
The numbers don't do anything to gauge this feat. Unless we can compare Naruto's speed to what Neji dodged there is no point in using numbers, because you'll still be stuck at the same issue. You need to draw a comparison to show that what you are saying is correct. And lol no. He obviously got hit by far more than 3 daggers. I hope I don't have to start circling stuff.
Lol sorry bout them numbers man Lol , I agree that both Sasuke and Neji are on the same tier of speed , but these feats puts Neji's agility in tight quarters beyond that of Base 2T Sasuke in terms of raw body movement feats between the two right??
Yes, and that's why he gets punked by Naruto. Because that very Sasuke got stomped by Naruto and Curse Mark wouldn't help him beat that Naruto.
They didn't clash with bladed weapons tho , they physically clashed flesh to flesh in simultaneous accordance to the Kunai they both threw a panel earlier.
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-Neji wasn't shown having any problems keeping up with his speed in that fight and only went for kaiten due to the Chakra.
They're still dashing past each other. That's not a strength competetition nor is that one clash proof that they rival each other in strength. Not sure how one would argue that KN0 Naruto and Neji of all people match other in strength anyway. Lol. And no, Neji was never shown to keep up with Naruto's speed.
-He couldn't hit him with projectiles, and noted that Naruto had gotten faster. Only thing he can do is react and follow his speed, but that's not keeping up. So no, Neji is nowhere near as fast as Naruto.
The numbers don't do anything to gauge this feat. Unless we can compare Naruto's speed to what Neji dodged there is no point in using numbers, because you'll still be stuck at the same issue. You need to draw a comparison to show that what you are saying is correct. And lol no. He obviously got hit by far more than 3 daggers. I hope I don't have to start circling stuff.
I agree on the upper point , but in regards to the bold Neji in fact only got hit by 3 daggers since he had only 3 in his back before getting another 3 in that instance.
They're still dashing past each other. That's not a strength competetition nor is that one clash proof that they rival each other in strength. Not sure how one would argue that KN0 Naruto and Neji of all people match other in strength anyway. Lol. And no, Neji was never shown to keep up with Naruto's speed.
Never claimed that they rival each other in strength , but the scenario seems to have been similar to their kunai's clashing , with both having a rebound due to the clash in accordance to their Kunai doing the same.
-He couldn't hit him with projectiles, and noted that Naruto had gotten faster. Only thing he can do is react and follow his speed, but that's not keeping up. So no, Neji is nowhere near as fast as Naruto.
This is true but i also never said he was as fast as Naruto , i said he could follow his speed , sorry if my wording made such a notion seem apparent , but he was shown to have no trouble actually following his speed right?
I agree on the upper point , but in regards to the bold Neji in fact only got hit by 3 daggers since he had only 3 in his back before getting another 3 in that instance.
Far less agile? No. The only kind of speed that Neji is far above Sasuke in would be striking speed. And the speed at which he can rotate, but that's restricted here so it doesn't matter.
This is true but i also never said he was as fast as Naruto , i said he could follow his speed , sorry if my wording made such a notion seem apparent , but he was shown to have no trouble actually following his speed right?
Then I'll agree, partially. He was shown to be unable to hit Naruto with his projectiles due to his speed. Them clashing says nothing about speed since Naruto charged at him just how Neji did, and Naruto being able to reach Neji before Neji can fully rotate would indicate that Neji had some issues with his speed. But he's not going to be blitzed outright by Naruto on any occasion. He'll get beaten in pure hand to hand though.
But doesn't his striking speed also correlate to the speed at which he can deflect physical attacks? Also Isn't it plausible that Neji can bob and weave his body in tandem with his striking speed ? the Hyuga utilize quick footwork in conjunction with circular evasive tactics in accordance to their strikes , even when looking at 64 Palms the user turns their body nigh instantly in accordance with the first 2 opening strikes then readjust nigh instantly for the follow-ups. This means that the speed at which he can deflect a physical attack or attacks is far faster than Sasuke doesn't it? here are two examples i would like to add which shows striking speed in tandem with agility ..
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Then when u think about his evasion of the daggers , doesn't it prove or at least make it plausible that his agility had to at least be close to his striking speed to easily avoid so many barrages of attacks only getting touched due to numbers and blindspot?
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If all this is correct doesn't that in fact put his evasive agility in tight quarters far above Sasuke simultaneously with his striking speed? not to mention swinging his body from side to side should be much quicker than the speed at which he can strike correct?
Rotation is also codependent on the users quick footwork and agility correct? for example some attacks that Neji has enough time to physically rotate for are attacks that he could very likely physically dodge by doing a small bob and/or weaving in conjunction with evasive agility as long as it isn't a barrage of attacks that leave his blindspot at risk or a attack that would force him to move completely out of the way , right? a example of his rotation bein used simultaneously with quick evasive agility manoeuvres in mid-air..
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Then in regards to his clash with Naruto , if Neji had enough time to almost complete a full circle and elevate his arm in front of him before Naruto even got to him or threw his punch , then doesn't that make it plausible that Neji could in fact maneuver around him if we excluded Kaiten along with the Expanded Chakra cloak seeing that he could react good enough to do that last minute after being surprised by the wide expansion of Chakra?
Them clashing says nothing about speed since Naruto charged at him just how Neji did, and Naruto being able to reach Neji before Neji can fully rotate would indicate that Neji had some issues with his speed.
Very true regarding the clash along with the point that he had a issue with the speed , but cant that also be explained by Naruto's chakra exploding out of no where along with a Naruto possibly using a shunshin blitz from a couple feet which worked in tandem with the expansion of chakra to create that issue?
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Then we have Neji having enough time to almost complete a full spin and elevate a Blocking tactic before Naruto even threw his punch , this indicates that he could in fact utilize circular evasive combat if we excluded the Expansion of Chakra that forced Kaiten right?
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Which makes it possible that he could've utilized evasive movements like below since he had time to rotate and elevate a block. , wat do u think?
Not getting outright blitzed on any occasion gives him the chance to utilize superior skill and evasive agility tactics along with his striking speed being used for high speed attack deflection right?
You keep repeating this yet you will do nothing but run into the same problem I've highlighted earlier. This feat is useless unless there is something that allows you to compare the speed of these daggers to Naruto. And there isn't. There is literally nothing in this Manga that even implies they are fast and you are trying to use Neji dodging most of them as a feat that lets him dodge someone who is actually confirmed to be a speedster of his time.
But doesn't his striking speed also correlate to the speed at which he can deflect physical attacks? Also Isn't it plausible that Neji can bob and weave his body in tandem with his striking speed ? the Hyuga utilize quick footwork in conjunction with circular evasive tactics in accordance to their strikes , even when looking at 64 Palms the user turns their body nigh instantly in accordance with the first 2 opening strikes then readjust nigh instantly for the follow-ups. This means that the speed at which he can deflect a physical attack or attacks is far faster than Sasuke doesn't it? here are two examples i would like to add which shows striking speed in tandem with agility ..
No, it doesn't. Deflecting attacks and striking via 64 palms are two completely different movements with different amounts of power behind them. And no, Neji's striking speed and his body speed are two completely different movements. Two completely different areas of the body. And the bold is a reach if I've ever seen one. Not only can you not determine how fast he's turning his body. You literally have nothing to compare it to in order to form an argument. Faster than Sasuke=/=Faster than Naruto. Faster than Sasuke is also irrelevant when Sasuke's reaction speed is easily above Neji's due to 3-T Sharingan.
Then when u think about his evasion of the daggers , doesn't it prove or at least make it plausible that his agility had to at least be close to his striking speed to easily avoid so many barrages of attacks only getting touched due to numbers and blindspot?
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If all this is correct doesn't that in fact put his evasive agility in tight quarters far above Sasuke simultaneously with his striking speed? not to mention swinging his body from side to side should be much quicker than the speed at which he can strike correct?
There's nothing left to say to this and anything related to the dagger feat you keep on trying to push that I haven't already said above.
Rotation is also codependent on the users quick footwork and agility correct? for example some attacks that Neji has enough time to physically rotate for are attacks that he could very likely physically dodge by doing a small bob and/or weaving in conjunction with evasive agility as long as it isn't a barrage of attacks that leave his blindspot at risk or a attack that would force him to move completely out of the way , right? a example of his rotation bein used simultaneously with quick evasive agility manoeuvres in mid-air..
@bold: Yes. The rest is you stating with no actual feat backing up the assertion that he can consistently dodge Naruto's attacks in close quarters. At this point you are repeating the same stuff over and over again. I can simplify literally everything you've typed by saying that you are pretty much saying that Neji is fast, you have to be fast to use rotation thus he should be able to dodge and block all of KN0 Naruto's attacks in CQC even though that is faulty logic at it's finest. You need a feat that you can actually use as a comparison. A feat of Neji dodging daggers with no other speed feat to even claim they are fast let alone fast enough to warrant Neji the ability to not only dodge every single one of Naruto's attacks, but also counter them. :lol Come on now.
Then in regards to his clash with Naruto , if Neji had enough time to almost complete a full circle and elevate his arm in front of him before Naruto even got to him or threw his punch , then doesn't that make it plausible that Neji could in fact maneuver around him if we excluded Kaiten along with the Expanded Chakra cloak seeing that he could react good enough to do that last minute after being surprised by the wide expansion of Chakra?
That's not VotE KN0 Naruto. That's CE exam Naruto. Not to mention that's not a close quarters fight. That's Naruto charging at Neji from like 5-10 meters away. If he charges then sure, Neji can evade, but once it becomes a CQC fight he gets obliterated. All you've done here is proof that he can't be blitzed by Naruto, but that's something we all knew already.
This is true but isn't that partly due to just getting accustomed to Naruto's new level of speed?
Very true regarding the clash along with the point that he had a issue with the speed , but cant that also be explained by Naruto's chakra exploding out of no where along with a Naruto possibly using a shunshin blitz from a couple feet which worked in tandem with the expansion of chakra to create that issue?
That's speed, the rest is baseless. Chakra being around Naruto's body isn't going to make him any faster than he would already be from having that chakra activated. The only kind of explosive move that'd make him go faster is Shunshin/
Then we have Neji having enough time to almost complete a full spin and elevate a Blocking tactic before Naruto even threw his punch , this indicates that he could in fact utilize circular evasive combat if we excluded the Expansion of Chakra that forced Kaiten right?
Before? Naruto hit Neji before Neji could complete his Rotation. Neji finished spinning as soon as Naruto reached him thus the clash shown in the panel. That's not a good feat for Neji when Naruto came at him from 5-10m away. Not to mention I already addressed this above.
Which makes it possible that he could've utilized evasive movements like below since he had time to rotate and elevate a block. , wat do u think?
Read above. Yes. He can dodge the first attack. That has always been the case. But we aren't talking about a single charge from 5-10m away. We are talking about a hand to hand, in your face, CQC battle. Two completely different things. Dodging Naruto's punch from 5-10m away doesn't mean he can dodge, weave and deflect every single one of Naruto's punches when they are inches from each other. Come on.
Not getting outright blitzed on any occasion gives him the chance to utilize superior skill and evasive agility tactics along with his striking speed being used for high speed attack deflection right?
Lol considering you can't even prove that Neji is fast enough to do this as your only evidence are feats worth almost nothing in this discussion due to Kidomaru's dagger's lack of speed feats and the rest being you pretty much saying that Neji is quick so he should be able to do this.
Before? Naruto hit Neji before Neji could complete his Rotation. Neji finished spinning as soon as Naruto reached him thus the clash shown in the panel. That's not a good feat for Neji when Naruto came at him from 5-10m away. Not to mention I already addressed this above.
I mean, the fastest human in real life can run 100m in 9.58 seconds, so 5-10m would be nothing for Kurama boosted Naruto.......... Also, Neji was not fully rotating neither did he ever complete his rotation. Which is obviously shown in the panel posted above, a full rotation doesn't have a huge open layer showing. That's the main reason why the explosion occurred and sent Neji himself flying.
You keep repeating this yet you will do nothing but run into the same problem I've highlighted earlier. This feat is useless unless there is something that allows you to compare the speed of these daggers to Naruto. And there isn't. There is literally nothing in this Manga that even implies they are fast and you are trying to use Neji dodging most of them as a feat that lets him dodge someone who is actually confirmed to be a speedster of his time.
Come on bro , i simply noted it after correcting ur statement about him obviously getting hit by more than 3 daggers , i wasn't trying to reinforce the feat in anyway , i just didn't want to reply to ur revelation with a simple " Yea".
If one is fast enough to strike 32 times nigh instantly then doesn't that make it possible for said person to simultaneously deflect physical attacks that they see coming and can react to as long as they can mentally react and said hands are able to move fast enough to do the job?
This is true but at the same time doesn't it take less time for one to swing his upper body from side to side in Neji's case as apposed to aiming and striking with his hands? this is the only reason i brought back the dagger feat since it puts his striking speed close to that speed based on them.
And the bold is a reach if I've ever seen one. Not only can you not determine how fast he's turning his body. You literally have nothing to compare it to in order to form an argument.
Sorry if it seemed that i was reaching , i assure u that that wasn't my intention and am merely trying to have a discussion with someone who i feel is very logical.
I agree here but u agreed that Naruto wont wtf blitz him on any occasion which means Neji can react to the first Blow , but will get dominated once it becomes CQC where he'll no longer be able to keep up just like it was for the less agile and slower to react 2T Sasuke right?
I was just flowing with the fact that u said the speed at which he can strike and rotate is much faster than Sasuke's and i was only trying to discuss how fast Neji can swing his body from side to side or do tight movements compared to his striking speed and spinning speed.
You need a feat that you can actually use as a comparison. A feat of Neji dodging daggers with no other speed feat to even claim they are fast let alone fast enough to warrant Neji the ability to not only dodge every single one of Naruto's attacks, but also counter them. :lol Come on now.
Ur right that i dont have anything to compare the daggers to , but wat i was trying to compare is the number of daggers to how close they were to Neji when he started to dodge , to how fast he would need to be in order to dodge them inches apart from the eachother with the attacks simultaneous barrage nature which is completely different than the speed at which the daggers themselves were moving towards Neji since the distance of each dagger were so closely intertwined with zero blindspots in the angles they simultaneously attacked from.
-Would U would rank KN0's striking speed above its movement speed ??
That's not VotE KN0 Naruto. That's CE exam Naruto. Not to mention that's not a close quarters fight. That's Naruto charging at Neji from like 5-10 meters away. If he charges then sure, Neji can evade, but once it becomes a CQC fight he gets obliterated. All you've done here is proof that he can't be blitzed by Naruto, but that's something we all knew already.
That's speed, the rest is baseless. Chakra being around Naruto's body isn't going to make him any faster than he would already be from having that chakra activated. The only kind of explosive move that'd make him go faster is Shunshin/
We saw the Chakra explode right under him , couldn't that have been shunshin + Naruto gaining a bigger boost of Kuruma's chakra due to his emotions firing him up?? we all know that the stronger the emotions the stronger the boost , Kishi seemed to have portrayed that notion in the scans.
Before? Naruto hit Neji before Neji could complete his Rotation. Neji finished spinning as soon as Naruto reached him thus the clash shown in the panel. That's not a good feat for Neji when Naruto came at him from 5-10m away. Not to mention I already addressed this above.
Come on bro i said before Naruto threw his punch , Neji was able to spin then elevate his arm in a blocking posture to Block the Chakra in front of Naruto.
Read above. Yes. He can dodge the first attack. That has always been the case. But we aren't talking about a single charge from 5-10m away. We are talking about a hand to hand, in your face, CQC battle. Two completely different things. Dodging Naruto's punch from 5-10m away doesn't mean he can dodge, weave and deflect every single one of Naruto's punches when they are inches from each other. Come on.
But Naruto hasn't displayed any skill in CQC at all just pure movement speed which he used to manhandle 2T Sasuke , if Naruto tries to blitz Neji with the first punch and its avoided , then Naruto isn't gonna mentally confirm wat physical attack he's gonna try next faster than it would take say a barrage of daggers simultaneously coming at Neji to get to him between each inch to inch dodge simultaneously in waves , since Naruto would not of expected his first punch to have missed in the first place it gives Neji the chance to apply his circular evasive movements after said dodge right?
Lol considering you can't even prove that Neji is fast enough to do this as your only evidence are feats worth almost nothing in this discussion due to Kidomaru's dagger's lack of speed feats and the rest being you pretty much saying that Neji is quick so he should be able to do this.
If one is fast enough to strike 32 times nigh instantly then doesn't that make it possible for said person to simultaneously deflect physical attacks that they see coming and can react to as long as they can mentally react and said hands are able to move fast enough to do the job?
No, not when Neji's 64 palms movements are completely different movements from blocking and deflecting. Lmao. If blocking required the same movement pattern as 64 palms then yes he could move that fast, but it obviously doesn't. So your point is prety much moot here.
This is true but at the same time doesn't it take less time for one to swing his upper body from side to side in Neji's case as apposed to aiming and striking with his hands? this is the only reason i brought back the dagger feat since it puts his striking speed close to that speed based on them.
Neji's striking speed is the fastest kind of speed he has.
Sorry if it seemed that i was reaching , i assure u that that wasn't my intention and am merely trying to have a discussion with someone who i feel is very logical.
I agree here but u agreed that Naruto wont wtf blitz him on any occasion which means Neji can react to the first Blow , but will get dominated once it becomes CQC where he'll no longer be able to keep up just like it was for the less agile and slower to react 2T Sasuke right?
I was just flowing with the fact that u said the speed at which he can strike and rotate is much faster than Sasuke's and i was only trying to discuss how fast Neji can swing his body from side to side or do tight movements compared to his striking speed and spinning speed.
Ur right that i dont have anything to compare the daggers to , but wat i was trying to compare is the number of daggers to how close they were to Neji when he started to dodge , to how fast he would need to be in order to dodge them inches apart from the eachother with the attacks simultaneous barrage nature which is completely different than the speed at which the daggers themselves were moving towards Neji since the distance of each dagger were so closely intertwined with zero blindspots in the angles they simultaneously attacked from.
That's not how it works unless Neji didn't know at all that anything was coming after him until that very moment, which doesn't make sense except for the daggers that were in his blind spot. For example: Blind Madara rushed Naruto and Naruto blocked, but at the last moment and fell to the ground. It's not that Naruto chose the last moment to block, he could only form his block at the last moment.
-Would U would rank KN0's striking speed above its movement speed ??
Considering Sasuke was getting stomped in close combat I'm gonna go ahead and say yes, especially since that's the case for 99% of characters in this Manga.
This is true but this isn't CE Neji either , nor does Naruto have the same things he used in that fight to stem that outcome in the CE.
Which doesn't matter. He doesn't need chakra enveloping his body when that was used to counter rotation
We saw the Chakra explode right under him , couldn't that have been shunshin + Naruto gaining a bigger boost of Kuruma's chakra due to his emotions firing him up?? we all know that the stronger the emotions the stronger the boost , Kishi seemed to have portrayed that notion in the scans.
If it was Shunshin then it's his speed. Shunshin is chakra focused into the feet and then released in a burst. Why would outside chakra surrounding Naruto's body have anything to do with that? The chakra expanded around his whole body, not just his feet. If it was Shunshin Naruto wouldn't be in the same position after the chakra explodes. When you use Shunshin, once the chakra explodes you are shot towards the opponent. What's worse is that we can clearly see Naruto running. When Shunshin is used in this Manga it looks more like teleportation than running, hence it being called Shunshin. You're starting to reach with this argument. And lmao if you want to talk emotion then Naruto's emotions at VoTE were far stronger than they were against Neji given the circumstances of him having to beat Sasuke or lose him to Orochimaru. So you don't have a point there either.
Come on bro i said before Naruto threw his punch , Neji was able to spin then elevate his arm in a blocking posture to Block the Chakra in front of Naruto.
That still doesn't make it a good feat for him. That's a good feat for Naruto. That's proof he won't get blitzed tho, but it's pointless to mention since I know Naruto can't blitz him.
But Naruto hasn't displayed any skill in CQC at all just pure movement speed which he used to manhandle 2T Sasuke , if Naruto tries to blitz Neji with the first punch and its avoided , then Naruto isn't gonna mentally confirm wat physical attack he's gonna try next faster than it would take say a barrage of daggers simultaneously coming at Neji to get to him between each inch to inch dodge simultaneously in waves , since Naruto would not of expected his first punch to have missed in the first place it gives Neji the chance to apply his circular evasive movements after said dodge right?
So what? Sasuke's skill dumps on Naruto's and it's not even close, yet as you said right here he got stomped with little difficulty. And lol stop right there. Where are you getting that Neji is going to avoid him from? I simply said that he can't be blitzed. But there's no way he's going to straight up dodge Naruto from only 9m. Sasuke needed 3-Tomoe to dodge Naruto like that.
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, Sasuke can react to KN0, but only with a block, and while I'm on this page, he tried to block Naruto's attack and he fell to the ground because Naruto's raw physical strength was too much. You are claiming that he's going to be deflecting and blocking Naruto's attacks, yet Sasuke who has a 3 in strength while Neji who has a 2.5, failed to do so. So there will be no deflecting or blocking any attacks and that's even assuming Neji can react well enough to do that, which you've yet to prove.
-Naruto attacks Neji.
-Neji blocks.
-His guard is broken and then Naruto beats the hell out of him. What you are saying in the underlined doesn't even make sense. So Kidomaru's daggers move faster than Naruto can think? :lol Cause that is pretty much what you are saying here. "Naruto not expecting his punch to be dodged" is a weak excuse for him somehow taking longer than he should to respond with a follow up attack. If it were a scenario like Sasuke where Sasuke was getting raped only to somehow seamlessly dodge Naruto then yes, I would see your point. But it's not.
Even If I agreed that Neji could dodge the first strike, if he dodged then Naruto would respond with a follow up and hit him since Neji can't hang with him in CQC. Why would he have a better chance to dodge when Naruto is closer for the follow up attack? It should be painfully obvious by now that Naruto stomps this match.
I was hoping this discussion wouldn't become a chore for u man , but it seems it has become the case.
I mean, the fastest human in real life can run 100m in 9.58 seconds, so 5-10m would be nothing for Kurama boosted Naruto.......... Also, Neji was not fully rotating neither did he ever complete his rotation. Which is obviously shown in the panel posted above, a full rotation doesn't have a huge open layer showing. That's the main reason why the explosion occurred and sent Neji himself flying.
Not even sure what point you are trying to make here, but your comparison in the first sentence is an irrelevant comparison to make since we aren't discussing how fast Naruto can cover that distance, we're discussing how well Neji can react from that distance. Neji reacts far faster than any human on this planet so you can't use our standards to try and not discredit his feat.
-We know he didn't complete his rotation. That's the entire point. :lol
-Lmao @ those databook scores. I'll let you realize why you make zero sense posting those in a discussion about KN0 and Neji on your own.
No, not when Neji's 64 palms movements are completely different movements from blocking and deflecting. Lmao. If blocking required the same movement pattern as 64 palms then yes he could move that fast, but it obviously doesn't. So your point is prety much moot here.
Gentle Fist is a unorthodox fighting style, in defensive CQC it focuses on quick deflection rather than straight up formal blocks , aiming to counter the force of the attacker with as little minimal force in contrast or completely avoiding it. These two things seems to be entirely co-dependent on the Hyuga's hand speed and agility wouldn't u say?
That's not how it works unless Neji didn't know at all that anything was coming after him until that very moment, which doesn't make sense except for the daggers that were in his blind spot.
But that is exactly the case as wat happened in the instance..
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Neji was caught off-guard due to the Giant spider covering then exploding on top of him in conjunction with seeing the daggers were right in his face distance with him not having dealt with the Giant movement restricting web falling down on him that needed to be dealt with first , unlike his earlier dodges where he knew the attacks were coming but could not simultaneously evade the daggers while getting rid of the baby spiders long enough for him to avoid getting coiled in the webs and temporally stuck for the daggers to be of use before be could snap the webs.
For example: Blind Madara rushed Naruto and Naruto blocked, but at the last moment and fell to the ground. It's not that Naruto chose the last moment to block, he could only form his block at the last moment.
If it was Shunshin then it's his speed. Shunshin is chakra focused into the feet and then released in a burst. Why would outside chakra surrounding Naruto's body have anything to do with that? The chakra expanded around his whole body, not just his feet.
If it was Shunshin Naruto wouldn't be in the same position after the chakra explodes. When you use Shunshin, once the chakra explodes you are shot towards the opponent. What's worse is that we can clearly see Naruto running.
When Shunshin is used in this Manga it looks more like teleportation than running, hence it being called Shunshin. You're starting to reach with this argument.
This is true , the way it was portrayed can also be seen as Naruto blasting off also shunshin has been portrayed a number of ways has it not? it just depends on how far ur going along with how long u focus chakra to ur feet.
And lmao if you want to talk emotion then Naruto's emotions at VoTE were far stronger than they were against Neji given the circumstances of him having to beat Sasuke or lose him to Orochimaru. So you don't have a point there either.
True again but the circumstances are different here , Naruto spontaneously Expanded his Chakra due to his emotions which was specially used to counter Kaiten , against Sasuke it was ntn but Taijutsu with the one exception being when he used Chakra Roar.
So what? Sasuke's skill dumps on Naruto's and it's not even close, yet as you said right here he got stomped with little difficulty. And lol stop right there. Where are you getting that Neji is going to avoid him from? I simply said that he can't be blitzed. But there's no way he's going to straight up dodge Naruto from only 9m. Sasuke needed 3-Tomoe to dodge Naruto like that.
Very true, but unlike Sasuke Neji can anticipate the use of such a direct attack by seeing the slightest chakra build in the feet , his Taijutsu skill and Genius also being above sasuke should also allow him predict that sort of linear attack when aided by the Byakugans acute vision on top of his unorthodox circular movements.
-3T Sasuke did make it sound like the reason he could see Naruto is due to the subtle way Chakra enters his body , which implies that its due to Naruto focusing chakra at specific parts of the body when moving towards him is wat allowed him to predict the next movement before it happens.
, Sasuke can react to KN0, but only with a block, and while I'm on this page, he tried to block Naruto's attack and he fell to the ground because Naruto's raw physical strength was too much.
Very true but Neji is different from 2T Sasuke due to him being able to anticipate when Naruto is about dash forward by the subtle build up of chakra and he can see where Naruto is focusing his chakra for physical attacks along with seeing in better detail how Naruto tries to physically attack him due to 360Dv in conjunction with seeing the slightest build up.
-Another thing i want to note is that Neji's tactical Taijutsu movements that he employs has been shown to be above Sasuke in CQC in conjunction with Neji's gentle fist style aiming to deflect force with little force in return rather than straight up block it and his hand movement speed should be easily above 2T sasuke's.
You are claiming that he's going to be deflecting and blocking Naruto's attacks, yet Sasuke who has a 3 in strength while Neji who has a 2.5, failed to do so. So there will be no deflecting or blocking any attacks and that's even assuming Neji can react well enough to do that, which you've yet to prove.
But the Hyuga fighting doesn't directly confront the physical strength of the enemy but rather they choose the path of least resistance. They use deflective blocking techniques in accordance to removing themselves from the path of the opponent’s attack rather than trying to confront the force with simple formal blocks which is why it greatly differs from Goken with a Gentle Natue instead. This is where the hand speed in conjunction with simultaneous circular foot speed comes in.
-Naruto gets ready to attack by focusing Chakra in the feet while Neji see's this and gets ready.
-Naruto launches to Neji then focuses chakra at whichever part of the body me wishes to attack Neji while Neji likely sees this too along with seeing exactly how Naruto positions himself for said attack with better acuteness due to wide vision.
-Neji uses unorthodox circular movements in conjunction with Hand speed to deflect the force of Naruto's punch , then if successful he can instigate additional defensive and offensive techniques.
Lol Na man , but daggers coming in simultaneously in waves inches apart from Neji's face closely intertwined between each dodge surely takes less time than it takes Naruto to mentally confirm wat physical move he plans to do next after getting his balance shifted due to force deflection and/or getting his force avoided . This is Due to the fact that in this rapidly fleeting moment where Naruto's attack has been successfully deflected and/or dodged , his balance is somewhat misalign and his mind is recalculating what move to make next. Therefore, this gives Neji a opportunity to launch a counter attack.
"Naruto not expecting his punch to be dodged" is a weak excuse for him somehow taking longer than he should to respond with a follow up attack. If it were a scenario like Sasuke where Sasuke was getting raped only to somehow seamlessly dodge Naruto then yes, I would see your point. But it's not.
Each time Sasuke was hit he was faced with a situation where his balance and/or Los was shifted , be it from getting blasted by a Chakra Roar or getting caught of Guard due to Naruto's physical power overwhelming his formal blocking methods along with his speed , he was always caught with his balance shifted when he collected his hits , but if u think its a weak arguement im sure u have ur reasons.
Even If I agreed that Neji could dodge the first strike, if he dodged then Naruto would respond with a follow up and hit him since Neji can't hang with him in CQC.
But between him getting his attack dodged and him thinking wat to do next there is a small exploitable interval which is how the hyuga's fight. Naruto blitzing means he's pushed himself forward at great pace and him getting dodged means he's still gonna be moving with that forward momentum and has to stop to readjust himself after mentally confirming his next physical move which would likely involves subtly focusing Chakra to that area all which will be seen by Byakugan up to the exact details on how Naruto physically forms himself for said attack without even needing to move his head to see wat Naruto is doing.
Thats great bro , i was of the impression that it was becoming tedious to u. I do feel that we are steadily making progress to a satisfactory conclusion so this is great news if thats how u feel.
Gentle Fist is a unorthodox fighting style, in defensive CQC it focuses on quick deflection rather than straight up formal blocks , aiming to counter the force of the attacker with as little minimal force in contrast or completely avoiding it. These two things seems to be entirely co-dependent on the Hyuga's hand speed and agility wouldn't u say?
Uh, no. When Neji fights he does both, and yes they are dependent on their speed, just like any other form of deflection or blocking. When he blocks it's close enough to a traditional block to make my argument valid. The panels you provided where he deflects moves are different movements altogether from jabbing, cause that's 64 palms. Quick jabs.
True.
But that is exactly the case as wat happened in the instance..
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Neji was caught off-guard due to the Giant spider covering then exploding on top of him in conjunction with seeing the daggers were right in his face distance with him not having dealt with the Giant movement restricting web falling down on him that needed to be dealt with first , unlike his earlier dodges where he knew the attacks were coming but could not simultaneously evade the daggers while getting rid of the baby spiders long enough for him to avoid getting coiled in the webs and temporally stuck for the daggers to be of use before be could snap the webs.
Baseless. Was he caught off guard? Yes. Was his ability to evade/block/deflect those daggers hindered by the web? Yes. But there's zero evidence to claim that he didn't see them coming at all when his Byakugan. Lmao the Manga even shows his exclamation point right before the daggers are shown to reach his position, meaning he saw them coming.
But at the same time rotation was only used to counter that specific thing.
Which doesn't help your argument. It helps mine because it shows that Naruto not having what he used against rotation here isn't evidence that he'll perform worse or lose to Neji.
His Chakra expanding could very likely be due to his emotions + the explosion of shunshin under his feet.
He ran. He was shown to run. Not sure why you are trying to push this point, but you should probably stop.
This is true , the way it was portrayed can also be seen as Naruto blasting off also shunshin has been portrayed a number of ways has it not? it just depends on how far ur going along with how long u focus chakra to ur feet.
No, not really. Shunshin has always been portrayed to be like teleportation. If the panels show the character running, then that's not Shunshin. That's a fact. If he used Shunshin the panels wouldn't have shown him running at all.
True again but the circumstances are different here , Naruto spontaneously Expanded his Chakra due to his emotions which was specially used to counter Kaiten , against Sasuke it was ntn but Taijutsu with the one exception being when he used Chakra Roar.
Which doesn't change his overall strength, make him superior to what he was at VoTe or even help your argument.
Very true, but unlike Sasuke Neji can anticipate the use of such a direct attack by seeing the slightest chakra build in the feet , his Taijutsu skill and Genius also being above sasuke should also allow him predict that sort of linear attack when aided by the Byakugans acute vision on top of his unorthodox circular movements.
Lmao don't reach. That's how these discussions start to deteriorate. No character in this Manga has ever been shown to predict a Shunshin by focusing on someone's feat, nor was Neji shown to do it when he fought Naruto. Not to mention Sharingan sees chakra too, so this isn't an excuse. His Taijutsu skill being above Sasuke's is irrelevant to speed. Two completely different things. And genius? :lol You can't be serious with that argument.
-3T Sasuke did make it sound like the reason he could see Naruto is due to the subtle way Chakra enters his body , which implies that its due to Naruto focusing chakra at specific parts of the body when moving towards him is wat allowed him to predict the next movement before it happens.
No. Stop. Sasuke said power. He never said chakra. Sharingan precognition doesn't work by viewing chakra. If it worked by viewing chakra then Sharingan wouldn't predict the movements of weaponry yet it has shown to be able to do such. Like I said above, don't reach. Cause here it seems like you are going to try and hand this ability off to Neji even though Byakugan has no form of precognition.
Very true but Neji is different from 2T Sasuke due to him being able to anticipate when Naruto is about dash forward by the subtle build up of chakra and he can see where Naruto is focusing his chakra for physical attacks along with seeing in better detail how Naruto tries to physically attack him due to 360Dv in conjunction with seeing the slightest build up.
No, not really. This build of chakra stuff to predict physical attacks lol) and Shunshin you are talking about is something never shown or proven in the Manga nor is there any evidence supporting that it's possible, and if it were, then Sasuke would be able to do the same thing as he can see chakra.
-Another thing i want to note is that Neji's tactical Taijutsu movements that he employs has been shown to be above Sasuke in CQC in conjunction with Neji's gentle fist style aiming to deflect force with little force in return rather than straight up block it and his hand movement speed should be easily above 2T sasuke's.
What aren't you getting about what I'm saying here?
Neji having faster striking speed (which doesn't correlate to blocking or this deflecting stuff you speak of) than Sasuke doesn't equate to him being able to deflect Naruto's attacks. There is literally no correlation. Neji's fighting style being to deflect the opponents attack doesn't automatically mean he can do the same thing to Naruto just because he has faster striking speed than Sasuke. That doesn't make sense. You keep telling me how Neji's fighting style works without proving that it's applicable here.
Let me take a gif or two from your argument. That's how this deflection stuff you've been hyping up works. Neji's hand guides the fist/hand of the attacker while he moves his body out of the way. For him to be able to even pull this off in the first place (which is what you seem to keep ignoring) he has to be fast enough to dodge. Neji isn't fast enough to dodge Naruto. Neji isn't fast enough to do any of this to Naruto. Neji was able to do this to the people in those gifs because they were not on his level in speed. The notion that Neji uses speed to fodderize someone faster than him in CQC is nonsense and I shouldn't have to explain this over and over for you to get it.
But the Hyuga fighting doesn't directly confront the physical strength of the enemy but rather they choose the path of least resistance. They use deflective blocking techniques in accordance to removing themselves from the path of the opponent’s attack rather than trying to confront the force with simple formal blocks which is why it greatly differs from Goken with a Gentle Natue instead. This is where the hand speed in conjunction with simultaneous circular foot speed comes in.
-Naruto gets ready to attack by focusing Chakra in the feet while Neji see's this and gets ready.
-Naruto launches to Neji then focuses chakra at whichever part of the body me wishes to attack Neji while Neji likely sees this too along with seeing exactly how Naruto positions himself for said attack with better acuteness due to wide vision.
-Neji uses unorthodox circular movements in conjunction with Hand speed to deflect the force of Naruto's punch , then if successful he can instigate additional defensive and offensive techniques.
Nope. What the Manga showed is that Neji saw Naruto coming after he had started moving, not before, not after nor did the Manga make any hints that Neji saw him coming from him focusing chakra in his feet. What makes this part of your post ridiculous is that you assumed he's using Shunshin even though you've yet to prove it. :lol Naruto running is not him using Shunshin. I really don't want to have to start typing walls to show you the difference between a Shunshin and Naruto simply running. Your argumentation started ok but now you are starting to reach.
-Since when could Neji or any Dojutsu user predict physical attacks by looking at chakra? Never. Ever. Not in this Manga.
-Since when could any Dojutsu user predict Shunshin by looking at the feet? Never. That's something fans came up with. What's worse is that mentioning this doesn't help your argument in any way, shape or form. The only attacks that have ever been predicted via Dojutsu seeing chakra build up is Amaterasu, and that is a tech that builds up quite a bit of chakra before releasing. All techs that work like Amaterasu can be predicted in this way too. Kamui is one of them. Shunshin is not.
-Naruto's chakra flares up as he starts running.
-Neji sees him coming and starts to rotate.
-Neji can't start spinning at full speed before Naruto's chakra reaches him.
-Neji's incomplete rotation and Naruto's punch collide and both parties are thrown back.
Lol Na man , but daggers coming in simultaneously in waves inches apart from Neji's face closely intertwined between each dodge surely takes less time than it takes Naruto to mentally confirm wat physical move he plans to do next after getting his balance shifted due to force deflection and/or getting his force avoided . This is Due to the fact that in this rapidly fleeting moment where Naruto's attack has been successfully deflected and/or dodged , his balance is somewhat misalign and his mind is recalculating what move to make next. Therefore, this gives Neji a opportunity to launch a counter attack.
You aren't even supporting your arguments anymore. Everything I bolded is literally stuff you just made up, or rather I should just say exaggerated. Neji doesn't move faster than Naruto can think. There's no excuse or argument you can make that will make what you are saying here seem logical. Especially the stuff I sized up. lmao what? What is this based on? Do you know how fast the human mind operates? (let alone super human individuals in a Manga) Apparently not if you think that Neji can move faster than Naruto can realize that his attack has been dodged, and then attack again when his movement speed is tiers above Neji's in this scenario. You literally just repeated what I already addressed. This just sounds like one big excuse if you ask me.
Each time Sasuke was hit he was faced with a situation where his balance and/or Los was shifted , be it from getting blasted by a Chakra Roar or getting caught of Guard due to Naruto's physical power overwhelming his formal blocking methods along with his speed , he was always caught with his balance shifted when he collected his hits , but if u think its a weak arguement im sure u have ur reasons.
Sasuke taking a direct hit isn't comparable to Naruto throwing a punch and then having it dodged. Not sure why you thought that was going to fly here.
But between him getting his attack dodged and him thinking wat to do next there is a small exploitable interval which is how the hyuga's fight. Naruto blitzing means he's pushed himself forward at great pace and him getting dodged means he's still gonna be moving with that forward momentum and has to stop to readjust himself after mentally confirming his next physical move which would likely involves subtly focusing Chakra to that area all which will be seen by Byakugan up to the exact details on how Naruto physically forms himself for said attack without even needing to move his head to see wat Naruto is doing.
No, there is no interval. At least no interval Neji can actually take advantage of considering the person attacking him is far faster than him. What you are saying doesn't even make sense at this point. Not even gonna waste time telling you how ridiculous this argument is again in this part of the post when you have yet to prove that Neji can actually dodge Naruto in the first place. In summary:
-Prove that Byakugan can predict Shunshin by looking at the feet. Though I can guarantee no such evidence exists in the Manga. It's just something fans made up when the only techs that have been predicted by chakra build up are attacks that build up a lot of chakra to be used in the first place and actually have a build up period.
-Prove that Neji is fast enough to dodge Naruto's attacks, because that's how he's done all his deflections of enemy attacks in the past. Him having faster striking speed than Sasuke doesn't prove anything, especially when what he does in those gifs I reposted is completely different than what he does when he jabs using 64 palms. Throwing around terms like unorthodox movement isn't evidence. Saying he can move his body faster than Sasuke's isn't evidence when Sasuke couldn't dodge either until he got 3-tomoe.
-Prove that Neji can dodge Naruto's attacks, but also attack him in that short interval it takes for him to realize he's been dodged to him throwing his next punch despite Neji being nowhere near as fast as Naruto. Though I personally wouldn't bother with this when this argument is probably the most ridiculous one I've seen you make during the course of this argument.
And drop the argument of Byakugan being able to do what 3-Tomoe does. That's nonsense man. Two different Dojutsu with 2 different abilities. Byakugan doesn't and never will have precognition. Sasuke doesn't view any form of chakra when predicting movements. He said power, not chakra. If he meant chakra he would've said chakra. Not to mention what the depiction of what he is seeing says isn't chakra.
hats great bro , i was of the impression that it was becoming tedious to u. I do feel that we are steadily making progress to a satisfactory conclusion so this is great news if thats how u feel.
Not even sure what point you are trying to make here, but your comparison in the first sentence is an irrelevant comparison to make since we aren't discussing how fast Naruto can cover that distance, we're discussing how well Neji can react from that distance. Neji reacts far faster than any human on this planet so you can't use our standards to try and not discredit his feat.
-We know he didn't complete his rotation. That's the entire point. :lol
-Lmao @ those databook scores. I'll let you realize why you make zero sense posting those in a discussion about KN0 and Neji on your own.
Ofc Neji is faster than any human, so is Naruto, so i don't see why you made the comparison of Neji not being able to dodge Naruto at that close of a distance. I said that because Naruto just got a huge speed boost and is also faster than any human being alive irl, and blitzing somene at 5-10m would be nothing for a Naruto Shinobi,duh. Neji was also caught off guard since that was the first time seeing Naruto in KN0. Obviously i posted the data book scans to show how much faster Neji is than Naruto in base form and also the difference of skill in taijutsu. Meaning that Naruto would still be superiority below Neji in terms of pure Taijutsu skill, the only thing that would get boosted is his speed.And you say i don't make any sense when your post literally says that Neji "finished spinning". SO if anyone doesn't make sense its you, that or you fail to think and wanted to hurry up and reply.
Ofc Neji is faster than any human, so is Naruto, so i don't see why you made the comparison of Neji not being able to dodge Naruto at that close of a distance. I said that because Naruto just got a huge speed boost and is also faster than any human being alive irl, and blitzing somene at 5-10m would be nothing for a Naruto Shinobi,duh. Neji was also caught off guard since that was the first time seeing Naruto in KN0. Obviously i posted the data book scans to show how much faster Neji is than Naruto in base form and also the difference of skill in taijutsu. Meaning that Naruto would still be superiority below Neji in terms of pure Taijutsu skill, the only thing that would get boosted is his speed.And you say i don't make any sense when your post literally says that Neji "finished spinning". SO if anyone doesn't make sense its you, that or you fail to think and wanted to hurry up and reply.
Naruto and Neji both being faster than any human in terms of speed and reactions is why your comparison makes no sense in the first place. :lol Since you are repeating the same thing, let me explain, again. We aren't talking about how fast Naruto can cross a distance of 5-10m. We are talking about him being fast enough to cross that distance BEFORE NEJI CAN REACT. The sentence "Naruto blitzing someone from 5-10m would be nothing" makes zero sense since that sentence doesn't take into account the reaction speed of the person at the receiving end. Naruto being able to cross that distance before Neji can complete Rotation isn't a feat to be mentioned in favor of him, that was my original point in the post you first replied to.
@underlined: How much faster Neji is than Naruto in base is irrelevant when we aren't talking about Base Naruto. Taijutsu skill is also extremely irrelevant to anything in that post you replied to and barely relevant to the argument as a whole, so you bringing up these scores still doesn't make sense.
Dafuq? Neji finished spinning when Naruto reached him because they clashed. That's clearly what that post is saying. Sounds like you are reaching for stuff to create an argument. Especially when the first sentence you so conveniently ignored says "Naruto hit Neji before he could complete his rotation". :lol That's why you don't make sense. Read before you reply buddy, not after. Will save you a lot of time.
Uh, no. When Neji fights he does both, and yes they are dependent on their speed, just like any other form of deflection or blocking. When he blocks it's close enough to a traditional block to make my argument valid. The panels you provided where he deflects moves are different movements altogether from jabbing, cause that's 64 palms. Quick jabs.
Its different but i'll just agree here since i first need to prove its applicable against KN0 the same way Kimimaru's fighting style was applicable against him which i cant so far.
Baseless. Was he caught off guard? Yes. Was his ability to evade/block/deflect those daggers hindered by the web? Yes. But there's zero evidence to claim that he didn't see them coming at all when his Byakugan. Lmao the Manga even shows his exclamation point right before the daggers are shown to reach his position, meaning he saw them coming.
The point i was trying to make is that his exclamation suggest that he didn't see them coming until the Giant spider was removed , only then did he seem to take note of his situation unlike the other cases. This could be due to the fact that the Byakugan even if already on still needs to take in the surroundings by expanding 360Dv like in this instance..
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The Byakugan's abilities seem to need to be sustained and used independently and/or combo'ed depending on the objective and situation , it can switch at a moments notice which is why i think he didn't see Naruto behind him in this instance , why he didn't see jirobo behind him and why Kaguya didn't see Sakura but that ones a bit iffy.
Which doesn't help your argument. It helps mine because it shows that Naruto not having what he used against rotation here isn't evidence that he'll perform worse or lose to Neji.
No, not really. Shunshin has always been portrayed to be like teleportation. If the panels show the character running, then that's not Shunshin. That's a fact. If he used Shunshin the panels wouldn't have shown him running at all.
I always assumed that it simply uses chakra to vitalize the body/feet so it can move a extreme distances very quickly and can be controlled for burst movements in a flash of speed without any steps , and/or used with the chakra focused at the feet for longer periods a sprinting variation where the user continues their running movement after shunshin burst , which is how i thought the Edo Kages got to the Battlefield and wat Sasuke/Naruto employed in this instance.
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Could be wrong about this but i always viewed shunshin as such and took wat happened against Neji to being him running towards Neji the following his run with a shunshin.
Lmao don't reach. That's how these discussions start to deteriorate. No character in this Manga has ever been shown to predict a Shunshin by focusing on someone's feat, nor was Neji shown to do it when he fought Naruto.
Not to mention Sharingan sees chakra too, so this isn't an excuse.
Lol Not tryna reach man , i got this analogy off of him being able to focus in on the tenketsu specifically and see the chakra flow to the feet like water.
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Even if he saw this in his first fight against Naruto he would still show a exclamation due to Naruto's new speed overall since determining that someone is about to shunshin doesn't determine their exact speed.
Agreed but more skill , relatively equal speed , superior Taijutsu flexibility , Taijutsu style and tight evasive agility does lead to better movements and the reason 3T Sasuke was able to read KN0 so easily was due to his linear attack patterns and zero skill in CQC forcing him to use speed/power alone.
Lol Genius as in his tactical movements in tight Taijutsu combat which i was basically attributing with skill anyway, but i say this because of Sasuke's taijutsu tactics against Naruto's clones where he decided to hand stand two clones while surrounded by clones even tho he wasn't forced to which could've cost him the match if Naruto decided to dogpile him from all sides rather bring him air-born but thats irrelevant.
My bad , i just attributed power to Chakra but i guess he could've meant physical power. Have we ever gotten a explanation on 3T precog? because i always likened it to being due to its enhanced perception of everything evolving from 2T level which enabled 3T to do things like attempt to count the blades of a FRS and see subtle movement in chakra and the slightest movement to predict physical moves with linear attack patterns being the easiest it can read.
Have u ever seen a viz scan of wat Sasuke said about his 3T precog , thats the closest in manga explanation on precog we ever got right?
If it worked by viewing chakra then Sharingan wouldn't predict the movements of weaponry yet it has shown to be able to do such. Like I said above, don't reach. Cause here it seems like you are going to try and hand this ability off to Neji even though Byakugan has no form of precognition.
This is why i likened it to its increased perception making it able to count the individual blades from a FRS explosion so thats why i feel it was also able to track weapons with the same pace.
-I dont share feats bro just flowing with the discussion LOL.
No, not really. This build of chakra stuff to predict physical attacks lol) and Shunshin you are talking about is something never shown or proven in the Manga nor is there any evidence supporting that it's possible, and if it were, then Sasuke would be able to do the same thing as he can see chakra.
Seeing the tenketsu and pathway is why i assumed it plausible and not knowing the enemies exact speed or where they will move even with this ability is why i assumed Neji showed exclamation.
Neji having faster striking speed (which doesn't correlate to blocking or this deflecting stuff you speak of) than Sasuke doesn't equate to him being able to deflect Naruto's attacks. There is literally no correlation. Neji's fighting style being to deflect the opponents attack doesn't automatically mean he can do the same thing to Naruto just because he has faster striking speed than Sasuke. That doesn't make sense. You keep telling me how Neji's fighting style works without proving that it's applicable here.
Let me take a gif or two from your argument. That's how this deflection stuff you've been hyping up works. Neji's hand guides the fist/hand of the attacker while he moves his body out of the way. For him to be able to even pull this off in the first place (which is what you seem to keep ignoring) he has to be fast enough to dodge. Neji isn't fast enough to dodge Naruto. Neji isn't fast enough to do any of this to Naruto. Neji was able to do this to the people in those gifs because they were not on his level in speed. The notion that Neji uses speed to fodderize someone faster than him in CQC is nonsense and I shouldn't have to explain this over and over for you to get it.
I'll just agree here even tho Lee was faster than Neji to a certain degree , his speed was not enough to beat Neji's Reaction but in KN0's case who is vastly above Neji's speed this does not correlate to him even tho Neji has vastly superior reactions and CQC know-how than both Sasuke/Naruto/Lee.
I do feel Neji could react and evade him but have no immediate notions of proof that come to mind without me going into walls of text about specifc CQC movements without having proof that its applicable against Naruto without using things like Chakra field to slow Naruto down in CQC to better react which wasn't the point of the thread , so i'll gladly concede here to wat i feel was a good match with me reaching my limit as to wat i can i cant prove in manga.
And drop the argument of Byakugan being able to do what 3-Tomoe does. That's nonsense man. Two different Dojutsu with 2 different abilities. Byakugan doesn't and never will have precognition. Sasuke doesn't view any form of chakra when predicting movements. He said power, not chakra. If he meant chakra he would've said chakra. Not to mention what the depiction of what he is seeing says isn't chakra.[/SPOILER]
I hope my above quote made clear wat i was saying since the bold was never my implication but i am however interested on exactly wat sasuke said and meant in that instance.
Dont judge a book by its cover man , i only kept coming due to bein unable to truly gauge Neji's reaction feats without having proof of it being applicable against KN0 or not , so after a time it felt like i was reaching rather than countering which concluded that it was time to concede to a good game than im not 100% sold on but can can have a satisfactory conclusion from a debate stand-point imo..
