[VS] VOTE 3: Sasuke vs Naruto

[Apêx1]

Sasuke Conditions:
Sasuke's Rinnegan can do everything Nagato's and non-JJ Madara's has done with 10-20x amplification due to Rikudo chakra.
Sasuke can summon the Gedo Mazo (can do so without this condition anyways).
All his summons become Animal Path with shared vision.
All Gaiden feats.

Naruto Conditions:
100% Kurama.
All Gaiden feats.

Restrictions: None
Distance: 20 Meters
Intel: Full

 

[take it easy]

Why you make such one sided match ?

 

[Ambivalence]

What's with all the Sasuke advantages?

 

[ARGUS]

Naruto still wins this, mid diff at most

at the end of the day it all comes down to PS and Kurama avatar since the 6 path techniques arent really cutting it here,
ameno is reacted to, limbo is sensed and a physical clone of sasuke gets shat on by narutos clone

Naruto with only half kurama is physically on par with SAsukes PS, only differnce is that the kurama avatars firepower surpasses that of sasukes PS which cant do shit to the avatar,
PS slash was swatted aside like nothing by a much weaker construct, and PS chidori at best is on par with a standard half kuramas TBB, which half kurama can tank with minimum damages let alone full kurama, let alone naruto with ashura avatar

now add the other half of kurama and its capacities get doubled, as well as the ashura avatar which results in sasuke getting shat on

 

[DHOH]

Draw.. Naruto can't beat Sasuke and vice versa.

 

[KidGamer65]

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Though movie info has stated that they are on par, but does that take into account the excess amounts of Nature Energy? Who knows? Probably not. The boosts you gave Sasuke aren't even that great, besides ST and CT, and I believe he can use the former and he's shown the latter. Gedo Mazo isn't even going to work here, Naruto would just obliterate it.

 

[DHOH]

Naruto still wins this, mid diff at most

at the end of the day it all comes down to PS and Kurama avatar since the 6 path techniques arent really cutting it here,
ameno is reacted to, limbo is sensed and a physical clone of sasuke gets shat on by narutos clone

Naruto with only half kurama is physically on par with SAsukes PS, only differnce is that the kurama avatars firepower surpasses that of sasukes PS which cant do shit to the avatar,
PS slash was swatted aside like nothing and PS chidori at best is on par with a standard half kuramas TBB, which half kurama can tank with minimum damages let alone full kurama, let alone naruto with ashura avatar

now add the other half of kurama and its capacities get doubled, as well as the ashura avatar which results in sasuke getting shat on

Sasuke's humanoid Susanoo can counter everything you named, next.

 

[ARGUS]

Sasuke's humanoid Susanoo can counter everything you named, next.

BPS? no bijuus means no BPS, just the regular rikudo PS that he has which half kurama matched and would have defeated
let alone ashura avatar naruto,

 

[DHOH]

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Though movie info has stated that they are on par, but does that take into account the excess amounts of Nature Energy? Who knows? Probably not. The boosts you gave Sasuke aren't even that great, besides ST and CT, and I believe he can use the former and he's shown the latter. Gedo Mazo isn't even going to work here, Naruto would just obliterate it.

It's one of Naruto's powers so I'm sure it's included. Kishi showed Humanoid Susanoo to erase all doubt that naruto was the strongest of the two..

 

[KidGamer65]

It's one of Naruto's powers so I'm sure it's included. Kishi showed Humanoid Susanoo to erase all doubt that naruto was the strongest of the two..

Naruto gathers an excess amount of energy from the world, JP raws say all of it and MP/MS translations say that he took everything in the area. It's possible that it might not be considered as his power.

Not sure why you keep going on about Humanoid Susanoo when Susanoo only took that form because he combined it with Naruto's Avatar. Even if he could shape manipulate Susanoo to look like it did when it had the Bijuu's chakra, it'd obviously be the same strength as his normal Susanoo as there is no difference between the chakras powering it.

 

[DHOH]

BPS? no bijuus means no BPS, just the regular rikudo PS that he has which half kurama matched and would have defeated
let alone ashura avatar naruto,

I'm assuming you haven't see the Buruto trailer.. That's 100% Humanoid Susanoo kruama is wearing... And that's after using the dimension jutsu.. Meaning his chakra has grown tremendously over the last 15 years.

 

[Apêx1]

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Though movie info has stated that they are on par, but does that take into account the excess amounts of Nature Energy? Who knows? Probably not. The boosts you gave Sasuke aren't even that great, besides ST and CT, and I believe he can use the former and he's shown the latter. Gedo Mazo isn't even going to work here, Naruto would just obliterate it.

Only giving him boosts which I think he would actually have had he canonically shown his Rinnegan techniques. And imo covering Gedo Mazo with PS like Madara covered 100% Kyuubi with PS would work effectively. Also, what if he can somehow attach himself to the Gedo and obtain its life force? Would practically make him a pseudo Rikudo. I didn't know the movie said they were on par though, thought it was an initial mistranslation. And don't see how it wouldn't be taken into account, if they are on par then they are on par.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

The rikkudo chakra should be far more than a 10-20X boost. They're supposed to be on par, so tie, or Naruto's slightly ahead (if at all).

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Though movie info has stated that they are on par, but does that take into account the excess amounts of Nature Energy? Who knows? Probably not. The boosts you gave Sasuke aren't even that great, besides ST and CT, and I believe he can use the former and he's shown the latter. Gedo Mazo isn't even going to work here, Naruto would just obliterate it.

It's possible Sasuke learned powerful techniques. There's the possibility that Sasuke can control Kaguya's dimension since his rinnegan seems molded after the rinne sharingan, and there's also the possibility he learned to use rinnegan techs through PS considering he could use chidori with it (a chidori+enton combo seems plausible). Speculation I know, but Sasuke has to show something to make up the difference from loosing biju susanoo to match Ashura Avatar.

 

[DHOH]

Naruto gathers an excess amount of energy from the world, JP raws say all of it and MP/MS translations say that he took everything in the area. It's possible that it might not be considered as his power.

Not sure why you keep going on about Humanoid Susanoo when Susanoo only took that form because he combined it with Naruto's Avatar. Even if he could shape manipulate Susanoo to look like it did when it had the Bijuu's chakra, it'd obviously be the same strength as his normal Susanoo as there is no difference between the chakras powering it.

Lol. Karuma is erring it not powering it.. If that's the Case we've would've seen that form before with madara and NRuto and Sasuke first time.

The humanoid Susanoo had nothing to do with bijuu chakra it has everything to do with more chakra.. And sasuke isn't tired from battle after battle in the war with15 years of chakra growth... Not to mention the little chakra he got from the bijuu which was probably low on chakra from getting used by Naruto, obito and Madara in the war... Take that into consideration, Sasuke new Susanno isn't surprising at all that he can attain that feat alone.

 

[KidGamer65]

Only giving him boosts which I think he would actually have had he canonically shown his Rinnegan techniques. And imo covering Gedo Mazo with PS like Madara covered 100% Kyuubi with PS would work effectively. Also, what if he can somehow attach himself to the Gedo and obtain its life force? Would practically make him a pseudo Rikudo. I didn't know the movie said they were on par though, thought it was an initial mistranslation. And don't see how it wouldn't be taken into account, if they are on par then they are on par.

Gedo Mazo offers nothing to Sasuke while Kurama offered firepower to Madara. The only thing he can do with it is use the chains, but Naruto has so many ways to handle those with Rikudo's powers that it's pointless to even try. They can be cut, they can be blown up etc.

Don't know about a pseudo Rikudo, though I'm not sure how big a boost he'd really get from it. In terms of vitality he'd get a big boost, Old Madara's 3-T Genjutsu became strong enough to be a Mini IT....but I doubt it's going to be anything that lets him take out Naruto's Ashura Avatar and survive Naruto's final attack.

I'm not sure about the validity of the statement myself, and I explained why it wouldn't be taken into account to DHOH, then there's the fact that Naruto and Sasuke use their Avatars in the movie, appear to be relatively on par, yet Naruto isn't using his Ashura Avatar.

Lol. Karuma is erring it not powering it.. If that's the Case we've would've seen that form before with madara and NRuto and Sasuke first time.

The humanoid Susanoo had nothing to do with bijuu chakra it has everything to do with more chakra.. And sasuke isn't tired from battle after battle in the war with15 years of chakra growth... Not to mention the little chakra he got from the bijuu which was probably low on chakra from getting used by Naruto, obito and Madara in the war... Take that into consideration, Sasuke new Susanno isn't surprising at all that he can attain that feat alone.

1. Rikudo Sasuke=/=EMS Sasuke when it comes to the manipulation of his Susanoo. Rikudo Sasuke>>>EMS Sasuke in that category. Him being able to shape Susanoo into a humanoid form around Kurama's body only means that his skill is just that great.

2. :lol Wrong. Size of your chakra has absolutely nothing to do with the power of your Susanoo, so that alone renders this whole argument null and void. Humanoid Susanoo came about because Sasuke merged the 9 Bijuu chakras together and stuffed them in his Susanoo, hence a power boost. The quality of the chakra powering Humanoid Susanoo>>>Quality of Sasuke's chakra alone as Juubi's chakra+Sasuke's Chakra>>>Sasuke's chakra alone.

You saying Sasuke can use humanoid Susanoo w/ no outside help is pretty much just him making his Susanoo look humanoid, it'd be the same strength as his regular PS. The only reason Sasuke's PS in Gaiden>>>>Sasuke's PS in The Last, (or should be) is because of the growth in the strength of his chakra.

The rikkudo chakra should be far more than a 10-20X boost. They're supposed to be on par, so tie, or Naruto's slightly ahead (if at all).



It's possible Sasuke learned powerful techniques. There's the possibility that Sasuke can control Kaguya's dimension since his rinnegan seems molded after the rinne sharingan, and there's also the possibility he learned to use rinnegan techs through PS considering he could use chidori with it (a chidori+enton combo seems plausible). Speculation I know, but Sasuke has to show something to make up the difference from loosing biju susanoo to match Ashura Avatar.

Even if he can control Kaguya's dimension, that's something Naruto was coping with even w/o his Avatar, the only possibility for equality lies in his Rinnegan.

 

[DHOH]

@KG

It's been proven through out the entire manga the stronger your chakra the stronger your susanoo.. That's manga fact..

So Sasuke is now shaping his Susanoo to look like Humanoid Susanoo for the kicks and giggles??? You know how crazy that sounds???

In case you forgot Saauke has Hagoromo's chakra, which is also senjutsu, meaning Sasuke poses the same chakra as the jubbi, meaning he indeed has everything it takes for this Humanoid Susanno... He was lacking more chakra which he gained over 15 years...

 

[Apêx1]

Gedo Mazo offers nothing to Sasuke while Kurama offered firepower to Madara. The only thing he can do with it is use the chains, but Naruto has so many ways to handle those with Rikudo's powers that it's pointless to even try. They can be cut, they can be blown up etc.

He still has immense weight, strength and amounts of chakra to back up the PS. PS swinging sword<<PS+Gedo swinging in conjunction. Also, his fire shockwave and lightning, although not Rikudo level, still can make a difference. Sasuke being connected to the Gedo, or simply absorbing it through Preta would put his chakra on another level. And yea, chains are likely to be raped by TBBRS or the like, although in a CQC fight comparable to the one they had in VOTE2, Sasuke's Gedo will be able to release the chains mid-CQC while PS and Nardo Avatar are clashing sword and hand. Not seeing how Naruto would prevent the chains from touching him since his arms are busy defending Sasuke's sword.

Don't know about a pseudo Rikudo, though I'm not sure how big a boost he'd really get from it. In terms of vitality he'd get a big boost, Old Madara's 3-T Genjutsu became strong enough to be a Mini IT....but I doubt it's going to be anything that lets him take out Naruto's Ashura Avatar and survive Naruto's final attack.

I'm not sure about the validity of the statement myself, and I explained why it wouldn't be taken into account to DHOH, then there's the fact that Naruto and Sasuke use their Avatars in the movie, appear to be relatively on par, yet Naruto isn't using his Ashura Avatar.

Don't see why not if he's on par with current Naruto. Doing this would be OC for Sasuke so it's not a part of his power, but I stipulated it that Sasuke would summon it since he's evil/fighting Naruto again. Thus it becomes a part of his power only as an antagonist who is willing to summon something as potentially dangerous as the Gedo. I mean it has the life force of the Juubi (iirc), so it's obviously going to mean he's Yin Hagromo and Yang Juubi. Which is basically a pseudo Hagromo with less amounts of Yang.

I can see where you're coming from, but I genuinely don't see why it wouldn't be considered a part of his power only because he's using excess amounts of Nature Energy. At the end of the day it's still a part of his abilities just like non-excess amounts of Nature Energy is. Unless you are saying SM as a whole is not considered a part of Naruto's power since it comes from Nature and not himself, in which case I disagree.

 

[LuckyMan]

Naruto still spanks him.

Empty Gedo Mazo is nothing compared to 8 Bijuu in raw strength. Naruto pretty much stomps.

 

[KidGamer65]

@KG

It's been proven through out the entire manga the stronger your chakra the stronger your susanoo.. That's manga fact..

So Sasuke is now shaping his Susanoo to look like Humanoid Susanoo for the kicks and giggles??? You know how crazy that sounds???

In case you forgot Saauke has Hagoromo's chakra, which is also senjutsu, meaning Sasuke poses the same chakra as the jubbi, meaning he indeed has everything it takes for this Humanoid Susanno... He was lacking more chakra which he gained over 15 years...

1. Lmfao. Which is what I just stated.

2. Don't mention more chakra again, because more chakra does not equal stronger Susanoo.

3. Sasuke's Susanoo changing shape=/=It changing power. It gets stronger because Sasuke's chakra strength grew over the past 15 yrs. Not evidence that it matches Naruto's Ashura Avatar when Naruto has the same growth under his belt+all the Nature Energy in the world.

He still has immense weight, strength and amounts of chakra to back up the PS. PS swinging sword<<PS+Gedo swinging in conjunction. Also, his fire shockwave and lightning, although not Rikudo level, still can make a difference. Sasuke being connected to the Gedo, or simply absorbing it through Preta would put his chakra on another level. And yea, chains are likely to be raped by TBBRS or the like, although in a CQC fight comparable to the one they had in VOTE2, Sasuke's Gedo will be able to release the chains mid-CQC while PS and Nardo Avatar are clashing sword and hand. Not seeing how Naruto would prevent the chains from touching him since his arms are busy defending Sasuke's sword.

Weight is barely helpful, if at all, PS armoring Gedo doesn't meld their chakra together, and Gedo armored with PS's strength isn't going to be Gedo+PS. PS is just armor when it's used to cover another entity. If he does what Madara did with Kyuubi and has his Susanoo hold the blades, then it will be Susanoo's strength alone behind the blade. If he lets Gedo hold the blade, then it will be Gedo's physical strength....and Gedo Mazo's physical power is nothing compared to Sasuke's Susanoo. So firepower won't change when it comes to PS Slash.

-Gedo's own attacks aren't even worth mentioning here. Wouldn't even harm BM Naruto let alone RSM Naruto. It makes no difference.
-Madara was only able to connect to the Gedo via Hashirama's genetic material. He put the Mazo in the flower, conected it to the Hashirama clone and then had a tube running from the flower to his back. [

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] Sasuke can't even do that. Nor is he going to be able to absorb anything while in Susanoo due to the fact that he can't release chakra while absorbing chakra.

The only way to stop that is to break away from CQC and focus on nukes.

Don't see why not if he's on par with current Naruto. Doing this would be OC for Sasuke so it's not a part of his power, but I stipulated it that Sasuke would summon it since he's evil/fighting Naruto again. Thus it becomes a part of his power only as an antagonist who is willing to summon something as potentially dangerous as the Gedo. I mean it has the life force of the Juubi (iirc), so it's obviously going to mean he's Yin Hagromo and Yang Juubi. Which is basically a pseudo Hagromo with less amounts of Yang.

I can see where you're coming from, but I genuinely don't see why it wouldn't be considered a part of his power only because he's using excess amounts of Nature Energy. At the end of the day it's still a part of his abilities just like non-excess amounts of Nature Energy is. Unless you are saying SM as a whole is not considered a part of Naruto's power since it comes from Nature and not himself, in which case I disagree.

Mazo was stated to have an incredible life force, not the life force of the Juubi itself. So no, he's not going to be any pseudo Hagoromo. Not to mention having it only means he gets a giant boost in vitality, not that he gets a massive power up.

1. No, SM is Naruto's power.
2. Yes, there is no definitive reason why it wouldn't count as Naruto's power, but once again, they are shown fighting relatively on par in the movie, and Naruto isn't using his Ashura Avatar. Main reason why it's possible the movie statement refers to Naruto's regular Kurama Avatar.

 

[Kagustuchi]

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Though movie info has stated that they are on par, but does that take into account the excess amounts of Nature Energy? Who knows? Probably not. The boosts you gave Sasuke aren't even that great, besides ST and CT, and I believe he can use the former and he's shown the latter. Gedo Mazo isn't even going to work here, Naruto would just obliterate it.

Agreeing with this. Even without the movie statement we would just scale up from VOTE2, which means Sasuke wouldnt even make it past Mid Diff without the excess nature energy.

Imo:

The Last Naruto (w/RBSM) >= Hokage Naruto > VOTE2 Naruto = VOTE2 Sasuke (w/Bijuu) > The Last Sasuke > Adult Sasuke > VOTE2 Sasuke (w/o Bijuu)