VIZ Clarification

[A v i]

Surprise is actually a very important factor to shinobi. That is why Naruto was able to get a hit off of Kaguya when he did Sexy Reverse Harem jutsu. Shin's appearance had the same effect on Sasuke. It surprised him, giving Shin an opening. That kind of opening can be counted on in someone like Sasuke's case and that is the reason as y Shin thought that he could attack Sasuke and get away.

Naruto's intervention on the other wasn't counted on escape wasn't Shin's intent so the mini Juubi had to tell Shin to escape.

I don't see the point in repeating this. It appears that you're purposely dodging the main point as you don't want to interpret it like this. I'll tell you again , even I don't think this is the case. It's just me pointing out that this is one of so many interpretations that can be created from those two confrontations. I have said everything I want to say about this particular point, if you still don't want to interpret it like this then be it. Not like I care or anything but I am nothing going to waste any more of my time with this pointless discussion. As I said before I couldn't careless about their views on them as I know where exactly their power levels stands in the world of shinobi.

 

[ANiMUS]

I don't see the point in repeating this. It appears that you're purposely dodging the main point as you don't want to interpret it like this. I'll tell you again , even I don't think this is the case. It's just me pointing out that this is one of so many interpretations that can be created from those two confrontations. I have said everything I want to say about this particular point, if you still don't want to interpret it like this then be it. Not like I care or anything but I am nothing going to waste any more of my time with this pointless discussion. As I said before I couldn't careless about their views on them as I know where exactly their power levels stands in the world of shinobi.

If all u were meaning to say was that these actions can be taken a certain way then u really did waste your time.

 

[lndra]

People in here XD

 

[ANiMUS]

People in here XD

I believe i said that Sasuke versus Shin was a planned retreat. Shin smiled because he had accomplished his goals :|

Tested Sasuke and baited him.

Shin saw Sasuke as exceptionally strong, but even then he felt that he had to kill him. That proves guts, and those guts is the same reason y the mini juubi had to step in to stop him from facing Naruto.

 

[Naruto X Hunter]

Hmm so you post these 2 useless pages so naruto fans can wank a little more , or there was no reason to post this at all.

Or just post the whole chap

lol,this stops the Naruto fans cause they can't act like the Mini Juubi creature said Naruto was the only one out of Shins league.

Shin was ordered to test Sasuke, while when he fought Naruto, he was ordered to capture Sarada. It looks like he didn't want to fail his mission, so that's why he kept fighting Naruto until that thing told him to retreat.

It didn't show who's better than who. The circumstances was just different.

You make good points, but Sasuke got hits on Shin, Naruto didn't,and Shin got away despite Naruto knowing about Shin beforehand.

On a contrary, it can be interpreted like Shin's father thinks Shin needs help to run away from Naruto where as he doesn't need any to escape from Sasuke. Shin wanted to know how strong Sasuke is so he attacked him and learned his lesson hence retreated. He never had any intention of fighting Sasuke. In case of Naruto, he had a work to do and Naruto got in his way which is why he got angry on Naruto and was stopped by his father via Juubi clone. His father never tried to stop Shin when he went after Sasuke nor did he ordered him to retreat where as he did stop him from facing Naruto stating that Naruto is out of his league. From that it can be implied that Shin's father whose knowledge is better than that of Shin thinks of Naruto as a better threat than Sasuke.

Shin on his own decided to run away from Sasuke cause he knew he didn't stand a chance, yet against Naruto, Shin actually felt like he had a chance, even when Naruto went BSM. And he only left due to being told, unlime against Sasuke who he himself decided to run away from.

Clear differences.

 

[King Of Pop]

Him wearing Uchiha garb and Sharingan has nothing to do with him being able to escape from Sasuke after attacking him. Attacking enemy is involved in both cases.So both would attempt to attack or capture Shin, Irrespective of Shins intentions i.e. regadless of whether he tries to fight back or run away. When Shin went to fight Sasuke(Obviously, he need to fight him to know how strong he is), his father didn't said anything like 'Stop it Shin don't try to to fight him. he's out of your league.' But he did attempted to stop him when he was trying to fight Naruto. Again it's not like I believe it to be true. I was just point out that it can be interpreted like this on a contrary to what the other dude said. I am well aware of how strong Naruto and Sasuke are when compared to each other.

concerning power of both, even if what you are saying is true, fact is sasuke was in 3t and used just raiton. he hardly used a fraction of his strength(naruto only pulled out his mode, no tbb or anything so same goes for him somewhat), so basically shin fathers intervention implies naruto in rsm/bsm mode>3t sasuke(no shit naruto would look like a bigger threat) < this is if what you think can being interpreted is actually true.

its not a good guage of who is stronger overall when all sasuke did was basic.

 

[Filo]

I love getting glimpses at viz scans!

 

[A v i]

If you understand the context, you should know my "full force" means shin's full physical strength. That's why its important to understand the story than just a phrase or two

I don't even get why my point is so hard to understand. I said his father never attempted to kill him and failed to think they can't beat him. Their strongest fighter never confronted Sasuke yet you're conforming they can't take on him because god knows what your reasons are. You're making absolutely no sense here. Shin isn't a physical fighter like Guy or Lee, For Shin fighting with full power means fighting with MS which was never used against Sasuke so I don't get what you're trying to imply with understanding the story stuff here.

Certain things has to be stated clearly. Especially a avenger job is to kill, not to test and go back and have a rest. A relevant example, hebi sasuke and ms sasuke, he never test his opponent. Sasuke didn't even test itachi despite of his lack of strength. So if you want to say saauke was testing itachi, you have to quote through manga

An avegers job isn't just killing, he must know how strong his enemy is in order prepare himself to ensure his death. Not everyone is same as Sasuke. Sasuke isn't a type of guy that'd start a battle and run away. He doesn't even know a thing about Itachi's where abouts back then let alone fighting him to learn how strong he is.

His first question when Shin returned from his battle with Sasuke was 'How was Sasuke?' implying that he sent Shin to test out Sasuke. If sent him to kill Sasuke then he'd have said So you failed to kill him? or So he's too strong for you? Or that I know hs'e too strong for you. But he never said anything like that. Basic comprehension.

Here's an example: let's say I want to kill a guy name tom but he's very strong and I ran from him, so I kidnap his daughter. So do I need to tell you I can kill tom without kidnapping his daughter?? Seriously??

Fallacy in your argument is that you failed to prove that Sasuke is too strong for Shin's father OR that Shin tried to kill Sasuke and failed. Again it's Shin who attempted to fight Sasuke so at best what you can prove is that Sasuke is too strong for Shin. So saying Sasuke is too strong for Shin is more appropriate than saying that he's too strong for both of them. Hence the reasons for targeting Sarada are unknown.

That's another problem people have. A little comprehension skill can only work for story and sentences that are very straight forward. When the story and sentences are not very clear like this, you do not just use a little comprehension skill. You actually have to understand the story and the context than just one two sentences; otherwise you will be making many assumptions

You don't need high level comprehension to understand what I have been saying.

It can be said that sasuke overwhelmed shin that shin knows ms would not work, so your statement doesn't help at all

Nothing stops him from using MS at the very beginning if he was really going for kill juts like he did in case of Naruto. First thing he did as soon as he saw Naruto was to activate his MS . It's actually easier than using some old fashioned taijutsu. I don't think Shin in his right mind would assume that he can kill Sasuke with basic taijutsu and weapons.

concerning power of both, even if what you are saying is true, fact is sasuke was in 3t and used just raiton. he hardly used a fraction of his strength(naruto only pulled out his mode, no tbb or anything so same goes for him somewhat), so basically shin fathers intervention implies naruto in rsm/bsm mode>3t sasuke(no shit naruto would look like a bigger threat) < this is if what you think can being interpreted is actually true.

its not a good guage of who is stronger overall when all sasuke did was basic.

He knows how strong Sasuke and Naruto are and he was definitely not referring to that particular mode of Naruto. He said Naruto as a whole is out of his league. Concerning Sasuke, there is noway in hell for Shin or his father to predict how Sasuke would respond. They don't know whether Sasuke would use Susanoo or that he'd use his basic attacks but they're still confidant about Shin escaping Sasuke even after attacking him.

 

[Narutrol]

I don't even get why my point is so hard to understand. I said his father never attempted to kill him and failed to think they can't beat him. Their strongest fighter never confronted Sasuke yet you're conforming they can't take on him because god knows what your reasons are. You're making absolutely no sense here. Shin isn't a physical fighter like Guy or Lee, For Shin fighting with full power means fighting with MS which was never used against Sasuke so I don't get what you're trying to imply with understanding the story stuff here.

You really dont understand the paragraph I wrote, so just forget that...

An avegers job isn't just killing, he must know how strong his enemy is in order prepare himself to ensure his death. Not everyone is same as Sasuke. Sasuke isn't a type of guy that'd start a battle and run away. He doesn't even know a thing about Itachi's where abouts back then let alone fighting him to learn how strong he is.

Sasuke didn't test him. Sasuke trained then find out his whereabouts, then kill him without testing

The manga is not written in a way like yours regarding to vengeance obviously

His first question when Shin returned from his battle with Sasuke was 'How was Sasuke?' implying that he sent Shin to test out Sasuke. If sent him to kill Sasuke then he'd have said So you failed to kill him? or So he's too strong for you? Or that I know hs'e too strong for you. But he never said anything like that. Basic comprehension.

This can have two meaning

1. Is sasuke dead?

2. If not, how strong it he?

To understand which one it referring to, you have to look at the rest than assume the rest while assume this means testing

Fallacy in your argument is that you failed to prove that Sasuke is too strong for Shin's father OR that Shin tried to kill Sasuke and failed. Again it's Shin who attempted to fight Sasuke so at best what you can prove is that Sasuke is too strong for Shin. So saying Sasuke is too strong for Shin is more appropriate than saying that he's too strong for both of them. Hence the reasons for targeting Sarada are unknown.

My speech has absolutely nothing to do with father. according to the way you bringing up "father", I can tell you don't quite understand what I wrote, so let's forget this too

You don't need high level comprehension to understand what I have been saying.

I understand what you are saying. You plotted out the whole situation that doesn't really support by manga which its not your fault because its a very common mistake. And its not about "high level comprehension"

Nothing stops him from using MS at the very beginning if he was really going for kill juts like he did in case of Naruto. First thing he did as soon as he saw Naruto was to activate his MS . It's actually easier than using some old fashioned taijutsu. I don't think Shin in his right mind would assume that he can kill Sasuke with basic taijutsu and weapons.

That's a good point, but just because using base mode doesn't mean no intent to kill. It happened throughout the manga. Almost all the time when ninjas want to kill one another, they don't go all out

 

[A v i]

If all u were meaning to say was that these actions can be taken a certain way then u really did waste your time.

I don't know if it's just you failing to see my points or that my points are too indirect and hard to understand. My point from the beginning is to say that those panels can be interpreted in many ways. Someone interpreted it in way that favours Sasuke then I pointed out another point which supports the contrary. It opens so many doors , in the end they're nothing but interpretations based on biased opinions which is why they can't be take seriously and definitely shouldn't be taken as testaments of their respective strengths.

As I said before I know how strong Sasuke is when compared to Naruto and vice versa so I don't need Shin to say which of those two is stronger. it's just fanobys using every little thing to make their fav look better by applying clueless logics to the actual context of manga.In this case I ended up posting an interpretation supporting Naruto as I was being sarcastic towards a Sasuke fan, if it was a Naruto fan then I'd have posted an argument that favours Sasuke.

Shin on his own decided to run away from Sasuke cause he knew he didn't stand a chance, yet against Naruto, Shin actually felt like he had a chance, even when Naruto went BSM. And he only left due to being told, unlime against Sasuke who he himself decided to run away from.

Clear differences.

Shin run on his because that was his plan from the beginning where as it wasn't in case of Nartuo. He does't know how strong Naruto is as he never confronted Naruto in a straight battle like he did in case of Sasuke where as his father knows how strong Naruto is which is why he suggested him to retreat.

 

[ANiMUS]

I don't know if it's just you failing to see my points or that my points are too indirect and hard to understand. My point from the beginning is to say that those panels can be interpreted in many ways. Someone interpreted it in way that favours Sasuke then I pointed out another point which supports the contrary. It opens so many doors , in the end they're nothing but interpretations based on biased opinions which is why they can't be take seriously and definitely shouldn't be taken as testaments of their respective strengths.

As I said before I know how strong Sasuke is when compared to Naruto and vice versa so I don't need Shin to say which of those two is stronger. it's just fanobys using every little thing to make their fav look better by applying clueless logics to the actual context of manga.In this case I ended up posting an interpretation supporting Naruto as I was being sarcastic towards a Sasuke fan, if it was a Naruto fan then I'd have posted an argument that favours Sasuke.

Then it appears i misunderstood u, sorry about that. Anyway yeah, it can be interpreted many ways. All pointless :|

 

[-Haku Yuki-]

Do you have the viz page that confirms if sasuke has a phone or not

 

[Narutrol]

Do you have the viz page that confirms if sasuke has a phone or not

No sasuke has no cell phone

 

[A v i]

Sasuke didn't test him. Sasuke trained then find out his whereabouts, then kill him without testing

The manga is not written in a way like yours regarding to vengeance obviously.

Sasuke is not Shin. They're two different people with two different minds and personalities so how you're assuming that Shin'd do exact same thing as Sasuke is beyond me.Sasuke didn't tried to test Itachi but Shin did tested Sasuke.

This can have two meaning

1. Is sasuke dead?

2. If not, how strong it he?

To understand which one it referring to, you have to look at the rest than assume the rest while assume this means testing

Possibility of anyone assuming that a mere kid with MS can stand up to a Rinnegan user itself is insane. And you think he was questioning him about Sasuke being alive? The chances of such a question being used are less than 0. Why would he send Shin to kill Sasuke if he's aware of the fact that Shin stands no chance against him? It's clear as day he was sent to test out Sasuke.

My speech has absolutely nothing to do with father. according to the way you bringing up "father", I can tell you don't quite understand what I wrote, so let's forget this too.

If his father has nothing to do with your argument then you have no possible right to say that they failed to kill Sasuke. As the term they includes Shins father. You can't say they when it's just Shin who confronted Sasuke in a battle. You could say Shin failed to kill him but again that doesn't prove that they're targeting Sarada because they failed to beat Sasuke as Shin's father never fought Sasuke.

I understand what you are saying. You plotted out the whole situation that doesn't really support by manga which its not your fault because its a very common mistake. And its not about "high level comprehension"

Jeez, never mind that statement.

That's a good point, but just because using base mode doesn't mean no intent to kill. It happened throughout the manga. Almost all the time when ninjas want to kill one another, they don't go all out

It was proved that it's in his character to go all out whenever he has killing intent against strong individuals. But he clearly never attempted to us MS despite knowing that Sasuke is a rinnegan user. Besides I doubt someone who failed to kill his greatest enemy would smile like Shin did in case of Sasuke. Especially after learning how aggressive he is, I don't think he'd make such a face if he truly did failed to kill him.

 

[King Of Pop]

He knows how strong Sasuke and Naruto are and he was definitely not referring to that particular mode of Naruto. He said Naruto as a whole is out of his league. Concerning Sasuke, there is noway in hell for Shin or his father to predict how Sasuke would respond. They don't know whether Sasuke would use Susanoo or that he'd use his basic attacks but they're still confidant about Shin escaping Sasuke even after attacking him.

and were is the evidence he knows how strong sasuke is? if they were really testing him then that means they dont know. and your argument is somewhat flawed as you have zero idea whether the juubi guy would have intervened if sasuke did actually use soosano or some of his strength. last i saw, shin immediately fled as soon as he got wrecked, and unlike against naruto he didnt stay long enough for you to make any sort of conclusion that the juubi guy wont have intervened. especially if sasuke decided to use his real strength. afterall what he showcased(taijutsu and raiton) was enough for shin to call him very powerful yet alone if he actually did use soosano.

then theres the possibility of shins mission possibly just being to test sasuke and then leave so in that sense there is no reason for them to intervene on his behalf.

 

[Narutrol]

Possibility of anyone assuming that a mere kid with MS can stand up to a Rinnegan user itself is insane. And you think he was questioning him about Sasuke being alive? The chances of such a question being used are less than 0. Why would he send Shin to kill Sasuke if he's aware of the fact that Shin stands no chance against him? It's clear as day he was sent to test out Sasuke.[/FONT][/I]

It's exactly identical to how tobi sent sasuke to try and capture 5 kages. It's multi purpose, not only one purpose like you stressing. And no, father does not know sasuke stronger than onion, he probably doesn't even know sasuke has rinnegan unless you believe sasuke spam rinnegan all the time that everyone knows. It's a wrong assumption

 

[A v i]

and were is the evidence he knows how strong sasuke is? if they were really testing him then that means they dont know. and your argument is somewhat flawed as you have zero idea whether the juubi guy would have intervened if sasuke did actually use soosano or some of his strength. last i saw, shin immediately fled as soon as he got wrecked, and unlike against naruto he didnt stay long enough for you to make any sort of conclusion that the juubi guy wont have intervened. especially if sasuke decided to use his real strength. afterall what he showcased(taijutsu and raiton) was enough for shin to call him very powerful yet alone if he actually did use soosano.

then theres the possibility of shins mission possibly just being to test sasuke and then leave so in that sense there is no reason for them to intervene on his behalf.

He knows Sasuke was the one who killed Itachi and he knows that Sarada is Sasuke's daughter which is something even Sasuke doesn't aware of which proves that he knows almost everything about Sasuke. He knows how strong Naruto is , that being said it's extremely unlikely and unbelievably illogical to assume that he doesn't know how strong Sasuke is despite having Sasuke as his main target. It was just Shin who wants to test out Sasuke's capabilities not his father so the term they shouldn't be used here.

My reasons are different from what you listed so I don't get how it makes my argument flawed. He let Shin fight Sasuke despite knowing how strong Sasuke is but same person absolutely refused to accept a battle with Naruto which is same as him thinking that Naruto is more of a threat than Sasuke. Shin's actions are irrelevant as he has next to no idea about how strong they're , what matters the most here is the reaction of his father as he has the info on both of them.

As I explained above Shin testing Sasuke involves him attacking Sasuke hence the possibility of becoming a target of Sasuke's attacks yet he let Shin fight him where as he rushed to get him back as soon as he saw Shin trying to confront Naruto. I don't get why you guys care so much about this. I said these arguments are just nonsense created by fans to start fan wars. I don't believe in this kind of arguments. I was juts countering a Sasuke fanboy by giving an argument which favours Naruto proving that the context can be interpreted in an opposite way. That's all , it's not like I am trying to make it out to be a fact or anything. Again if it was a Naruto fan , I'd have did the exact opposite.

It's exactly identical to how tobi sent sasuke to try and capture 5 kages. It's multi purpose, not only one purpose like you stressing. And no, father does not know sasuke stronger than onion, he probably doesn't even know sasuke has rinnegan unless you believe sasuke spam rinnegan all the time that everyone knows. It's a wrong assumption

I believe first paragraph in above response should be suffice for this quote. Once again Sasuke isn't Shin so using Sasuke as a reference in a discussion about Shin won't make your case better. Everything done by Shin supports the point of him going after Sasuke to test him out. Even if he did went after Sasuke to kill him it doesn't really support your original argument as Shin's father has yet to make his move hence they never failed to beat him.

 

[Narutrol]

He knows Sasuke was the one who killed Itachi and he knows that Sarada is Sasuke's daughter which is something even Sasuke doesn't aware of which proves that he knows almost everything about Sasuke. He knows how strong Naruto is , that being said it's extremely unlikely and unbelievably illogical to assume that he doesn't know how strong Sasuke is despite having Sasuke as his main target. It was just Shin who wants to test out Sasuke's capabilities not his father so the term they shouldn't be used here.

My reasons are different from what you listed so I don't get how it makes my argument flawed. He let Shin fight Sasuke despite knowing how strong Sasuke is but same person absolutely refused to accept a battle with Naruto which is same as him thinking that Naruto is more of a threat than Sasuke. Shin's actions are irrelevant as he has next to no idea about how strong they're , what matters the most here is the reaction of his father as he has the info on both of them.

As I explained above Shin testing Sasuke involves him attacking Sasuke hence the possibility of becoming a target of Sasuke's attacks yet he let Shin fight him where as he rushed to get him back as soon as he saw Shin trying to confront Naruto. I don't get why you guys care so much about this. I said these arguments are just nonsense created by fans to start fan wars. I don't believe in this kind of arguments. I was juts countering a Sasuke fanboy by giving an argument which favours Naruto proving that the context can be interpreted in an opposite way. That's all , it's not like I am trying to make it out to be a fact or anything. Again if it was a Naruto fan , I'd have did the exact opposite.



I believe first paragraph in above response should be suffice for this quote. Once again Sasuke isn't Shin so using Sasuke as a reference in a discussion about Shin won't make your case better. Everything done by Shin supports the point of him going after Sasuke to test him out. Even if he did went after Sasuke to kill him it doesn't really support your original argument as Shin's father has yet to make his move hence they never failed to beat him.

There's too much assumption you have made that I lost count. You even assume minion as the father which manga never even spoke once

Ms sasuke is the way kishimoto portrait the revenge of uchiha, so it is relevant

 

[9tailsJinchuuriki]

You make good points, but Sasuke got hits on Shin, Naruto didn't,and Shin got away despite Naruto knowing about Shin beforehand.

You do know that Shin got up close and personal with Sasuke. It was easy for Sasuke to hit Shin, while Naruto was attacking from a distance. If you can't understand something so simple, then I'm just wasting my time replying to you.

EDIT: Yes he knew about Shin, but only what Sasuke had seen. He did not know about MS or the Juubi thing and its ability to use Kamui. So other than the fact that Shin had 3t Sharingan and a chain weapon, Naruto knew almost nothing about the kid or the aide he was going to get.

 

[A v i]

There's too much assumption you have made that I lost count. You even assume minion as the father which manga never even spoke once

Ms sasuke is the way kishimoto portrait the revenge of uchiha, so it is relevant

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Here is where he referred to him as father in manga. It wasn't an assumption. If he calls him father then it means he's his father unless manga depicts their relation to be different from father and son. If it was a bad translation then let me know. I don't even understand what that second point supposed to prove. The whole world knows that Sasuke battled Kaguya along with Naruto. He's definitely not stupid enough to assume that Sasuke can stand up to a god with MS. Besides, he knows how strong Naruto is and you think he doesn't even know how strong his main target is? Is that even believable?