Update: Accurate Power progression between Naruto and Sasuke

[DHOH]

His displayed feats are:
Opening portals
Speed and strength on par with Naruto who wasnt in full power
I dont think these feats can be compared with Indras arrow

He aslo Match RSM Naruto in durability and taijutsu.. And he showed the same Susanoo that use Indra's arrow..

 

[LeSauce]

Lmao. Animators animate. Kishimoto writes the story. Kishimoto decided that Sasuke would keep up w/ cloaked Naruto in Taijutsu and Kishimoto decided that Sasuke's Chidori can vaporize a Mountain Sized Meteor. So no, Sasuke is obviously much stronger. Animators isn't an excuse you can use here.



Lol you sound ridiculous. Fights are how strength is illustrated. If the movie guide says Naruto=Sasuke, and that same movie shows them fighting on par using Kurama and PS, then those are the states that the guide is referring to. Nothing more to it. Saying "Sasuke=Ashura Mode Naruto" is based on little to nothing and definitely not more than what the opposite conclusion has for support. Try using your brain and the solution should come pretty easy.

And that example sucked.



No, the VIZ says "everything available". How does that translate to the surrounding area? Japanese

You must be registered for see links

say the entire planet.

What? They didn't even fight each other, how do you know that they're fighting on par? Are you saying that Sasuke is fighting on par with BSM Naruto using only a walking V3 Susano'o with CM? They're literally fighting side by side just as Naruto and Sasuke are in the movie, yet you adamantly say that it proves nothing. So does it mean that they're fighting on par or not?

Like I said, all we have is a blanket statement. Your argument assumes that Kishi even compares powers religiously. As if Kishimoto looks at what each character was using and analyzed whether or not they would actually be on par. As if he looked at the movie and made it specifically so that they would be on par, just so he could make that statement. I'm sure Kishi was there sitting down taking and giving powers in order to make them equal. If he really did do that then why were the Ootsusuki such a pain to a combination of characters that could beat them on their own? I mean, according to feats, which you apparently seem to value more than the authors words.

If Kishi made Naruto use some form greater than Ashura mode in the movie, and still made the statement, it wouldn't mean that Sasuke would be stronger if he used the Bijuu.

But let's assume your assumptions are true, why in the world would Kishimoto even say they were equal if he didn't think they actually were if they were at their full potential? What casual fan is going to look at the movie and say, "Oh, yeah, he says they're equal, but he's only referring to their movie counterparts. In the manga they're not equal." What casual fan is going to even think past it? And yes, the casual fan is who they target, not forum posters who look at every single detail of the manga page.

 

[Greysama]

What? They didn't even fight each other, how do you know that they're fighting on par? Are you saying that Sasuke is fighting on par with BSM Naruto using only a walking V3 Susano'o with CM? They're literally fighting side by side just as Naruto and Sasuke are in the movie, yet you adamantly say that it proves nothing. So does it mean that they're fighting on par or not?

Like I said, all we have is a blanket statement. Your argument assumes that Kishi even compares powers religiously. As if Kishimoto looks at what each character was using and analyzed whether or not they would actually be on par. As if he looked at the movie and made it specifically so that they would be on par, just so he could make that statement. I'm sure Kishi was there sitting down taking and giving powers in order to make them equal. If he really did do that then why were the Ootsusuki such a pain to a combination of characters that could beat them on their own? I mean, according to feats, which you apparently seem to value more than the authors words.

If Kishi made Naruto use some form greater than Ashura mode in the movie, and still made the statement, it wouldn't mean that Sasuke would be stronger if he used the Bijuu.

But let's assume your assumptions are true, why in the world would Kishimoto even say they were equal if he didn't think they actually were at their full potential? What casual fan is going to look at the movie and say, "Oh, yeah, he says they're equal, but he's only referring to their movie counterparts. In the manga they're not equal." What casual fan is going to even think past it? And yes, the casual fan is who they target, not forum posters who look at every single detail of the manga page.

His is true they don't appeal to the manga die bards they try to appeal to the casual watched/reader no one at the studio animating is thinking "if we do this people will think they're no longer equal even tho that was stated so don't make sasuke's moves look as cool against kishi" everyone forgets this is a business cool=money they don't care about fanboys over analyzing it

 

[Jokule67]

Lmao. Animators animate. Kishimoto writes the story. Kishimoto decided that Sasuke would keep up w/ cloaked Naruto in Taijutsu and Kishimoto decided that Sasuke's Chidori can vaporize a Mountain Sized Meteor. So no, Sasuke is obviously much stronger. Animators isn't an excuse you can use here.



Lol you sound ridiculous. Fights are how strength is illustrated. If the movie guide says Naruto=Sasuke, and that same movie shows them fighting on par using Kurama and PS, then those are the states that the guide is referring to. Nothing more to it. Saying "Sasuke=Ashura Mode Naruto" is based on little to nothing and definitely not more than what the opposite conclusion has for support. Try using your brain and the solution should come pretty easy.

And that example sucked.



No, the VIZ says "everything available". How does that translate to the surrounding area? Japanese

You must be registered for see links

say the entire planet.

There is no excuse and kishi had no part in the fight he said it in an interview. He just wanted it to focus on taijutsu and make it exciting since its their first team up. He left all details and choreography to the animating studio.

All I'm saying is you guys are hyping Sasuke when he has always been that skilled and strong. Its nothing new. Yes he made a chidori big whoop, we already knew he could do that.

The only thing new was his Portal jumping, everything else you should expect from Sasuke its his first screen time in nearly all the movies since shippuden.

 

[Jokule67]

He aslo Match RSM Naruto in durability and taijutsu.. And he showed the same Susanoo that use Indra's arrow..

Durability no you cant prove that his body equals a Sage Mode user in durability. Come back when he blocks a chidori stab.

The PS is a huge feat although I stick it to the animators. They even redesigned Naruto modes for the hundredth time.

And since when was Sasuke ever severely outclassed by Naruto? Never bro. Of course their taijutsu matches each other what a big suprise.

 

[KidGamer65]

There is no excuse and kishi had no part in the fight he said it in an interview. He just wanted it to focus on taijutsu and make it exciting since its their first team up. He left all details and choreography to the animating studio.

All I'm saying is you guys are hyping Sasuke when he has always been that skilled and strong. Its nothing new. Yes he made a chidori big whoop, we already knew he could do that.

The only thing new was his Portal jumping, everything else you should expect from Sasuke its his first screen time in nearly all the movies since shippuden.

Id like a link or a quote of Kishis words before i address this.

Lmao He made a Chidori that obliterated a Mountain. Not just a Chidori. Thats something he couldnt do before. Not sure whats difficult to understand here.

 

[Jokule67]

Id like a link or a quote of Kishis words before i address this.

Lmao He made a Chidori that obliterated a Mountain. Not just a Chidori. Thats something he couldnt do before. Not sure whats difficult to understand here.

What I dont understand is why everyone is so suprised he can destroy a mountain with lightning.

All kishi did was the dialogue he had no part in the play out of the fighting. And I aint got time to post it so we'll just leave that alone.

I understand that everyone is hyped because we rarely get cool scenes like that but what bugs me is everyone acting like he was incapable of it before. We've seen him do the same taijutsu feats in hebi. He has always been cool like that. And he has a Six Paths Rinnegan boost. Him blowing up a meteor is not suprising.

 

[take it easy]

He aslo Match RSM Naruto in durability and taijutsu.. And he showed the same Susanoo that use Indra's arrow..

His body never had same durability as Narutos and he could match his taijutsu because he didnt use his best tech like FC .

 

[DHOH]

His body never had same durability as Narutos and he could match his taijutsu because he didnt use his best tech like FC .

Sasuke's body showed the same durable feats as adults as Naruto..

 

[Greysama]

Sasuke's body showed the same durable feats as adults as Naruto..

Sasuke's bare hand ain't tanking toneri just my opinion

 

[KidGamer65]

What I dont understand is why everyone is so suprised he can destroy a mountain with lightning.

All kishi did was the dialogue he had no part in the play out of the fighting. And I aint got time to post it so we'll just leave that alone.

I understand that everyone is hyped because we rarely get cool scenes like that but what bugs me is everyone acting like he was incapable of it before. We've seen him do the same taijutsu feats in hebi. He has always been cool like that. And he has a Six Paths Rinnegan boost. Him blowing up a meteor is not suprising.

Lmao what are you even arguing here? That Sasuke didn't get stronger or that people shouldn't be surprised? Cause if it's the latter I don't really care as no one made any statement that infer hype or surprise. Just an observation.

So Sasuke was capable of matching cloaked Naruto's speed and physical strength in Base in Hebi form? So Sasuke was always able to blow up a Meteor w/ Chidori post Rinnegan boost despite his chidori+Naruto's Rasengan not reaching that level of power? You joking?

 

[KidGamer65]

What? They didn't even fight each other, how do you know that they're fighting on par? Are you saying that Sasuke is fighting on par with BSM Naruto using only a walking V3 Susano'o with CM? They're literally fighting side by side just as Naruto and Sasuke are in the movie, yet you adamantly say that it proves nothing. So does it mean that they're fighting on par or not?

Like I said, all we have is a blanket statement. Your argument assumes that Kishi even compares powers religiously. As if Kishimoto looks at what each character was using and analyzed whether or not they would actually be on par. As if he looked at the movie and made it specifically so that they would be on par, just so he could make that statement. I'm sure Kishi was there sitting down taking and giving powers in order to make them equal. If he really did do that then why were the Ootsusuki such a pain to a combination of characters that could beat them on their own? I mean, according to feats, which you apparently seem to value more than the authors words.

If Kishi made Naruto use some form greater than Ashura mode in the movie, and still made the statement, it wouldn't mean that Sasuke would be stronger if he used the Bijuu.

But let's assume your assumptions are true, why in the world would Kishimoto even say they were equal if he didn't think they actually were if they were at their full potential? What casual fan is going to look at the movie and say, "Oh, yeah, he says they're equal, but he's only referring to their movie counterparts. In the manga they're not equal." What casual fan is going to even think past it? And yes, the casual fan is who they target, not forum posters who look at every single detail of the manga page.

You can compare the damage they were doing to Momoshiki. And Sasuke's susanoo was being buffed by Naruto's power. At that moment they were fighting on par. :lol Physical blows were equal. Durability was equal. Speed was equal too. Literally the same case in the Boruto Movie, except Naruto and Sasuke are actually stated to be equal unlike in the Manga.


You really need to stop making excuses. Bold is probably the dumbest thing you could possibly say. This argument only requires Kishimoto to be aware of the power of his own characters. Stop trying to over complicate shit here. :lol Are you going to argue next that Kishimoto doesn't take into account the comparison of power between the MC and his rival? :lol Amazing. Read the Manga and you'll know that Sasuke and Naruto's power ups always drew them closer to the other. That's the point of the MC rival relationship.

And how do I value feats over the authors words? Kishimoto said Naruto=Sasuke, you just believe it's Ashura Mode Naruto when supporting evidence disagrees. The casual fan would look at Naruto and Sasuke in the movie after reading the guide and say that Naruto=Sasuke based on what was shown in the movie as that is what the casual fan will see. Not sure why you thought it'd be a good idea to try and make this point when it doesn't help yours at all.

 

[Jokule67]

Lmao what are you even arguing here? That Sasuke didn't get stronger or that people shouldn't be surprised? Cause if it's the latter I don't really care as no one made any statement that infer hype or surprise. Just an observation.

So Sasuke was capable of matching cloaked Naruto's speed and physical strength in Base in Hebi form? So Sasuke was always able to blow up a Meteor w/ Chidori post Rinnegan boost despite his chidori+Naruto's Rasengan not reaching that level of power? You joking?

Lol when did I say he didnt get stronger. I said you guys shouldnt be suprised. When has he ever not been the fastest guy in the room, or completely outclassed. By Naruto? Hell no.

My point is in the BORUTO movie all he did was taijutsu. We already knew he could do that. What the hell is the big deal. When has he ever not been able to keep up with Naruto. He caught up to a flying Madara and sliced him in half.

 

[Jiren]

His displayed feats are:
Opening portals
Speed and strength on par with Naruto who wasnt in full power
I dont think these feats can be compared with Indras arrow

Sasuke didn't even have the strength to make PS throughout the whole movie and still kept up with Kyuubi powered Naruto. lml.

 

[Jokule67]

Sasuke's body showed the same durable feats as adults as Naruto..

Not really man. Naruto was crushed between a mountain and also kicked through the chuunin exams walls. Sasuke was kicked around, slammed, and knocked through some mini boulders. Literally the same feats as his Vote2 self.

You cant say his durability equals a Sage Mode user, its not in his abilities.

 

[Warlocks]

He aslo Match RSM Naruto in durability and taijutsu.. And he showed the same Susanoo that use Indra's arrow..

sasuke could only match him cuz naruto all chakra got absorb by momo so he only match a weak rsm naruto who couldnt even move properly:bdpf:

 

[Jokule67]

Sasuke didn't even have the strength to make PS throughout the whole movie and still kept up with Kyuubi powered Naruto. lml.

Naruto was getting drained the whole time did you forget.

 

[Jokule67]

sasuke could only match him cuz naruto all chakra got absorb by momo so he only match a weak rsm naruto who couldnt even move properly:bdpf:

Sasuke matches Naruto with his Superior Doujutsu and finesse in fighting, bot to mention his insane speed. Defeating Sasuke is no cake walk. In fact, DB suggests any who face him gets cut down(Hebi)

 

[Warlocks]

Sasuke didn't even have the strength to make PS throughout the whole movie and still kept up with weak Naruto who got got all his chakra absorb by momo . lml.

fixed

 

[SasukeSixPack]

Irrelevant. VoTE 2 Sasuke is as strong as he is because of power that enhances his Susanoo not his actual physical stats and other Ninjutsu. Not sure why you even bothered to make that comparison. All you've shown is that Sasuke w/ Bijuu>>The Last Sasuke>>>VoTE 2 Sasuke w/o Bijuu.

Against Momoshiki? Once again you are mentioning irrelevant examples. Their full power is all that matters here and Naruto's full power in the Manga>>Sasuke's full power in the Manga. Same goes for the Boruto Movie. Ashura Avatar is a power Sasuke isn't matching without the Bijuu. All Momoshiki fight shows is that Sasuke=Cloaked Naruto in physical power. What's hilarious is that you are actually sitting here arguing that Adult Sasuke>Adult Naruto when the creator of the Manga we are discussion already stated that they are equal in that specific time frame.

And no, you didn't see Sasuke and Naruto w/o excess energy face off. That would be PS Sasuke vs. Kurama Mode RSM Naruto w/o nature energy. What you saw is obviously Base Naruto and 3-Tomoe/Base Sasuke fighting each other.

You're wrong here. That power that enhances VotE 2 Sasuke's Susano'o isn't permanently his power. It makes no sense comparing any version of Sasuke to VoTE-2 Sasuke after taking the Bijuu chakra because he'll be stronger than any other version even if the other versions have a better mastery of overall jutsu. Anyone with Jinchuriki level chakra will always be on another level and lets face the facts that Nothing shown in Gaiden or Boruto the Movie matches the Power Sasuke had during VoTE 2 it was only in The Last we saw power like that again.

It's a relevant example because all you're doing is "Assuming" they progressed the same after the time skip which obviously isn't the case. Sasuke was out doing missions and engaging in combat while Naruto was dealing with Village affairs. You also contradicted yourself here because saying Sasuke needs Bijuu power to Match Ashura avatar right after you just said they are equal according to the Movie and Manga is contradictory. It doesn't make sense I'm simply trying to show you that it's not impossible of Sasuke to have progressed to that point based on feats which are clearly in my favor because what you fail to realize is that when he said they were equal he meant entirely not what you're trying to suggest in the bold.

Sasuke damaging JJ Madara had jack shit to do with his skill and everything to do with his Ameno, the same Ameno that Naruto can survive so I have no idea what your point is but it makes no sense and it reeks of fanboyism. How about I show you scans of Naruto outperfoming Sasuke during his fight with Kaguya? Who is stronger than JJ Madara? :lol As for their stats:

-Kurama Avatar=PS, but Naruto can use clones. 4 Avatars>1 Avatar=Sasuke's PS.
-Naruto's standard Bijuu Dama=PS Chidori, RG Sasuke's strongest technique outside of anything he can do w/o Bijuu. Naruto can make Bijuu Dama far larger than the standard.
-Outside of PS vs. Kurama combat Naruto would butt rape Sasuke. He's faster, stronger, better reflexes, more durable, Bijuu Dama FRS, Super Bijuu FRS, clones, etc. Sasuke had a fireball distraction and couldn't even land a clean hit of Chidori on Naruto. :lol So tell me more about how Naruto is only better chakra wise? In Taijutsu and close combat Naruto would violate your boy. Let's be 100% real here.

Lol ok lets go ahead and try to ignore the fact that even to use Ameno it requires skill because the technique magically makes Sasuke do the things he does right? It doesn't work like that pal. Whether you try to downplay sasuke's skill with the jutsu or not you can't deny the fact that he was doing more against madara the more skilled and adept opponent. Kaguya's chakra level's didn't mean anything significant because it's not like Madara couldn't have done the same against them after getting the second Rin'negan.

1. How can 4 Avatars = Sasuke's PS when We already see that Sasuke can attack multiple targets with his Susano'o when he destroyed the multiple Chibaku tensei is such quick time. Not Saying Naruto's clones with their avatars are like Meteorite rocks but they don't have any speed feats like Sasuke's Susano'o so you're going to have to explain how you came to that fanboyish conclusion
2. Naruto can't do that without the added natural energy so what's your point? Naruto could never match that power with just Ashura avatar because it's equal to R-Sasuke's PS Avatar.
3. Agreed on the fact that Naruto has the better Stats physically overall but Sasuke has a Sharingan, Rin'negan and S/T Ninjutsu which more or less counters that but if you're talking strictly taijutsu then ur rite.

Nope. If you read the Manga, you'd know that EMS Sasuke at best matched a BSM Naruto who used nothing but the regular standard sized Bijuu Dama. Naruto has his Bijuu sized BD, and he has Flash BD. So how exactly is Sasuke equal when Naruto's firepower blows his away and when he's either superior or equal in every other stat that matters?


I don't need proof that Madara's Susanoo is more durable because Sasuke's Susanoo has no feat that puts it on Madara's level. If you want to bring Madara into this discussion and use him as a comparison point for Sasuke you'll have to show why he's on that level. And if that wasn't your intention then you'll have to prove why Naruto's attacks won't get past Sasuke's defense.

Which I know you can't do.

It all comes down to His PS defense which we already know was necessary to break through Obito's shield in the end. Sasuke PS is the strongest version of his Susano'o and what made it possible for them to get to Obito. We already saw it tanking hits from Kaguya as well and in the same fashion Madara's PS would tank those hits. To be honest a JJ's Lion fist should be more deadly than Shinshuushenju's fist because a Juubi's Jin has chakra and power on Scales wayyy above Hashirama which only proves my point further

Go read the Manga buddy and get back to me. He said that Sasuke is stronger than KN3. Stronger than KN3=/=On par with KN4. Nothing more to be said on this topic. Whether you want to use statements or a feats based analysis KN4 rips any Sasuke that isn't MS a new one.

No...-_- KN4 is the stage following KN3. If you're > KN3 then you're atlest on par with KN4 which is the following stage. What kind of logic is that . srs.

-Naruto needs Ashura Avatar to stalemate a Sasuke who is using the Bijuu's power. Naruto w/o it would beat Sasuke w/o his Bijuu and Naruto w/ it would rape Sasuke w/o the Bijuu. That is a FACT so you can stop trying to argue that now.

-So BM Naruto is below EMS Sasuke because you say so? :lol The feats put Sasuke below Naruto in that time period. Saying it isn't so won't change a thing.

Bold is retarded. Hebi Sasuke is stronger than KN3. Anything above that rapes him with little difficulty. Better in every physical ability and has a Bijuu Dama that Sasuke can't survive. If you are going to cry Genjutsu you can stop now unless you want to provide scans of Hebi Sasuke being able to suppress the amount of chakra released when KN4 comes out.

1. Ashura avatar AND Worlds Natural energy. Stop acting like the Ashura Avatar is something special without the Natural energy :lol now this is pure fanboyism. Ashura avatar = 4 Kurama avatars that's NOT the same as 4 times the power because they are all clones and use the same chakra as the Original. I think you should go re-read how shadow clones work before you start making crazy claims like this

2. BM Speed is tracked by Sharingan. BM attacks are blocked by Susano'o. CQC their avatars are equal. Clones are ignited with Enton. FRS can be stopped by Amaterasu. Should I go on? And Naruto's chakra useage >/= Sasuke's chakra control.

3. Now you're beginning to sound dumb. Naruto already tried using kyuubi states against Sasuke and he supressed it with 0 difficulty. The Amount of chakra released with KN4 is irrelevant because as long as Kurama is in the Cage Sasuke can supress his chakra and there's nothing he can do. Dude we saw Madara supress ALL of it's chakra using 3 tomoe and you're trying to tell me Hebi Sasuke couldn't do the same with KN4? Lmao. stop...