Understanding Infinite Tsukiyomi: Why dreams were" ridiculous"?

paratise

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Hello there. After this chapter i saw several comments on the dreamas are rather being silly barring Gaara's and Tsunade and Hinata's to a certain extent. Now i will put my overview on it, not saying it is absluteley correct but the things can be seen differently.

Lets start off with this page, Hinata, Kiba and Shino:

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Nothing much to say here for Kiba and Shino as they are the least characteristcly developed members of k11 along with Tenten (hence she can have more going on for her due to losing someone important). For hinata, it is a simple view that she is with Naruto. But Neji is there, she did not exactly dreamt for Neji because he is simply never gone to begin with.

Secondly, Ino-Shika-Chou:

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Not saying much right, especialy Ino and Chouji seem kind of shallow here. But if you look at the backgrounds, all of their fathers are alive (ı know Choza is alive currently). Family is granted in a perfect world, it is not something that someone would wish to have. They did not got through the sadness of their fathers' death in a perfect life, their fathers are there with their usual attitude. They can have their silly little dreams. Same with Shikamaru seeing Asuma.

Third; Lee, Tenten and Mei:

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Lee and Tenten seem to have their shallow and silly dream, Lee beats the guys and get the girl and Tenten is glad that Lee and Gai gave up on their quirks. But, they both have Neji alive as they know of. Neji was Lee's rival figure and he had his battle (which i remind Lee wanted to happen), and he was the "normal" one of the team according to Tenten. He is there the way he had been, he is not seen as coming back to life because he never did die. You can't go through that misery in perfect world.

For Mei, this striked as a shallow dream...Why the kages in the background? Because the peace and unity that is getting strived for is already accomplished in a level that they can come to her wedding. She is a kage that ruled the village after and era called "bloody mist" afterall.

Lastly, Tsunade and Gaara:

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Now these seem like the most "decent" ones out of dreams. These have one common thing which distinguish from other dreams: they both take place in past. As i said before for other dreams, they do not specially wish for what they are granted. Neither Tsunade and Gaara have been granted for the existence of their loved ones or even a family like the others do. They live the past they never did in dream world.


As summary, what i am saying is in a perfect world, someone would not wish forsomething that would drag you out of the measly situation s/he is in. Everything is already perfect and you have your own little dreams that you want.
 
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saw2097

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Exactly, people are dreaming of what they view as a perfect life.

Kishi has been pretty clear on how IT works since day one, it just makes you see what you want.
 

paratise

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Exactly, people are dreaming of what they view as a perfect life.

Kishi has been pretty clear on how IT works since day one, it just makes you see what you want.

Thanks, people were undermining the manga a lot today.

I am not the one who defends Kishi and what he writes no matter what (you probably know it), but this chapter was not shallow.

Very true.

Great job :)
 

rollin

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agreed
people have crazy expectations of a shouen manga
hinata likes naruto she's going to be in a dream with naruto
kiba wants to be hokage he's going to be in a dream where he's hokage
so on and so forth
 

Moe22

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Well done catepillar. I just truly believe that we could've gotten a more serious approach to some of these dreams, because, especially the characters who've had great character development (Shikamaru, Choji, Hinata, etc.)it just seemed like a step backwards.
 

Minator93

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Not really. The Mugen Tsukuyomi is perfect. Go watch Inception if you want to understand the power of the dream U_U
 

paratise

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agreed
people have crazy expectations of a shouen manga
hinata likes naruto she's going to be in a dream with naruto
kiba wants to be hokage he's going to be in a dream where he's hokage
so on and so forth

And in the background, the given things did not change.
Well done catepillar. I just truly believe that we could've gotten a more serious approach to some of these dreams, because, especially the characters who've had great character development (Shikamaru, Choji, Hinata, etc.)it just seemed like a step backwards.
"Serious approach" is not fitting in a lalalaland. That is the thing.
Not really. The Mugen Tsukuyomi is perfect. Go watch Inception if you want to understand the power of the dream U_U
Absolutalely irrelevant to the topic in hand.
Better post a didn't read gif.
 

Moe22

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Why does it have to be lalaland? Why can't it be their dreams and aspirations coming to fruition? Do you honestly think after all Rock Lee has been through, he just wants to get with Sakura? After holding his dying Sensei, after losing his teammate, you still think he has a thing for Sakura. He should've stopped this infatuation once she used him and drugged him on their Sasuke manhut lol
 

paratise

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good thread :I

Thanks.
Why does it have to be lalaland? Why can't it be their dreams and aspirations coming to fruition? Do you honestly think after all Rock Lee has been through, he just wants to get with Sakura? After holding his dying Sensei, after losing his teammate, you still think he has a thing for Sakura. He should've stopped this infatuation once she used him and drugged him on their Sasuke manhut lol

The thing is, he never held his dying sensei or teammate in perfect world. Why wish for something he did not lose at all?
Perfect little dreams for perfect world. He did not go through the garbage in that world to begin with, notice how Neji is alive?

About still liking Sakura, he was never a character to hold a grudge, even for the ones who did far worse than Sakura did:
 

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I hope Obito never completes Infinite Tsukuyomi. It sounds bad.
 

Moe22

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Thanks.


The thing is, he never held his dying sensei or teammate in perfect world. Why wish for something he did not lose at all?
Perfect little dreams for perfect world. He did not go through the garbage in that world to begin with, notice how Neji is alive?

About still liking Sakura, he was never a character to hold a grudge, even for the ones who did far worse than Sakura did:

lol you got me with that one. I just wish we would've seen something more meaningful.
 

awesomeseimei

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I actually enjoyed the dreams besides the fact that all females had male-oriented dreams (covered elsewhere), but even if it's a perfect world, we clearly still see them as ninjas, don't we? Lee still dreams about being stronger than Naruto and Neji, beating them in a fight. Kiba dreams about being a Hokage, basically a military leader. Their dream world is no paradise where no war exists since the "system" is still the same. So, why can't they also have bigger dreams based on their world's imperfections? I mean, if you launched IT in our world, there would be people dreaming about being world leaders, movie stars, having superpowers, or simply being surrounded by women or something. These things are pretty shallow too, but that would be idealizations - something those people can't achieve in reality.

My point is, if IT world was peaceful and paradise-y to begin with, we'd probably see them all living a different lifestyle with no ninja system at all, but if it is basically like their world but without bad things in their all respective pasts I don't see why they couldn't dream bigger.
 

Minator93

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Absolutalely irrelevant to the topic in hand.
Better post a didn't read gif.

Post a better Summary at least. Not many people read a shit load of text with very little scans.
 

paratise

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I hope Obito never completes Infinite Tsukuyomi. It sounds bad.

I hope Zabuza won't kill team 7 in land of waves.
I actually enjoyed the dreams besides the fact that all females had male-oriented dreams (covered elsewhere), but even if it's a perfect world, we clearly still see them as ninjas, don't we? Lee still dreams about being stronger than Naruto and Neji, beating them in a fight. Kiba dreams about being a Hokage, basically a military leader. Their dream world is no paradise where no war exists since the "system" is still the same. So, why can't they also have bigger dreams based on their world's imperfections? I mean, if you launched IT in our world, there would be people dreaming about being world leaders, movie stars, having superpowers, or simply being surrounded by women or something. These things are pretty shallow too, but that would be idealizations - something those people can't achieve in reality.

My point is, if IT world was peaceful and paradise-y to begin with, we'd probably see them all living a different lifestyle with no ninja system at all, but if it is basically like their world but without bad things in their all respective pasts I don't see why they couldn't dream bigger.

@bold exactly. People don't think deep there. No further problems.
Is it idealistic for the girl with Nike shoes preaching about worker rights? No but it happens.
lol you got me with that one. I just wish we would've seen something more meaningful.

It was meaningful. Them being shallow showed how a "perfect" world is.
 

awesomeseimei

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@bold exactly. People don't think deep there. No further problems.
Is it idealistic for the girl with Nike shoes preaching about worker rights? No but it happens.

Well, yeah, they are fictional characters. No reason for them to show weird, previously-unexplored depths.

I've always dreamed about being a superhuman of sorts all my life, and I still do, as an adult with a regular, mundane job. But if I was a fictional character my dream would probably be owning a hair salon or something.

On the other hand, it was no reason to forget Tenten's original dream or being like Tsunade, especially assuming that she never lost her teammate in the IT world. It's not like no tragedy equals no ambition.
 

paratise

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Post a better Summary at least. Not many people read a shit load of text with very little scans.

Don't read if you don't want.
Well, yeah, they are fictional characters. No reason for them to show weird, previously-unexplored depths.

I've always dreamed about being a superhuman of sorts all my life, and I still do, as an adult with a regular, mundane job. But if I was a fictional character my dream would probably be owning a hair salon or something.

On the other hand, it was no reason to forget Tenten's original dream or being like Tsunade, especially assuming that she never lost her teammate in the IT world. It's not like no tragedy equals no ambition.
We take things for granted, thwt's why. People want things they can't have.

Kishi probably forgot that goal. Last time we saw that was chapter 80-something.
 

BenjerminGaye

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Why does it have to be lalaland? Why can't it be their dreams and aspirations coming to fruition? Do you honestly think after all Rock Lee has been through, he just wants to get with Sakura? After holding his dying Sensei, after losing his teammate, you still think he has a thing for Sakura. He should've stopped this infatuation once she used him and drugged him on their Sasuke manhut lol

Dreams are motivated by emotion. Not reason

Cobb/DiCaprio- Inception
 
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