Uchiha Itachi & Kakuzu vs Orochimaru & Sasori

[Shura]

The only threatening thing for Orochimaru is Itachi's Genjutsu (I'm not talking about tanking with Body Replacement), but since it's 2vs2, it should be much easier to get some time for Oro to release himself from it or simply do that with Sasori's help.

Orochimaru can only basically counter Amaterasu by reviving himself and that's not really something that would help his temmate at all nor does he have actual fire-power comparable to that of any of these three characters. Manda would become Itachi's pet so the only thing he has left is some smaller snakes and Kusanagi which Kakuzu can keep on repelling, burning, smashing, whatever..​

 

[blazekev90]

Orochimaru can only basically counter Amaterasu by reviving himself and that's not really something that would help his temmate at all nor does he have actual fire-power comparable to that of any of these three characters. Manda would become Itachi's pet so the only thing he has left is some smaller snakes and Kusanagi which Kakuzu can keep on repelling, burning, smashing, whatever..​

@bold incorrect. Orochimaru has the ability to shield himself N sasori with snakes.

Manda 2 being caught in genjtusu is subjective

 

[Nattana]

This is matchup discussion, not plot. He traps him in Genjutsu as shown [

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] and instead of cutting his hands, he cuts his head off. Oh, and Itachi sealed Orochimaru immediately.

What has he shown capable of breaking Itachi's Genjutsu which only Uchiha and Perfect Jinchuuriki have a chance of breaking it?

Lol. Perfect Jinchuuriki's Genjutsu breaking mechanism is the same as anyone else's. What are you even talking about?

And what is head-cutting even doing to Orochimaru? His body reaplement can be used from any body part and considering that it's his True Form hidden somewhere in his body OR his own dimension, cutting any part of his human shell isn't going to kill him.

Moreover, he was careless about Totsuka because he didn't know it was it. He himself stated that such 'mere wounds' aren't going to do shit to him. Now that he has intel on it, he's not gonna let himself get caught by it.

 

[Prince Charles]

@bold incorrect. Orochimaru has the ability to shield himself N sasori with snakes.

Manda 2 being caught in genjtusu is subjective

Yes because orochimaru will be able to react instantly every time amaterasu is about be used? And how is Manda 2 caught in genjutsu subjective?

 

[Shura]

@bold incorrect. Orochimaru has the ability to shield himself N sasori with snakes.

Manda 2 being caught in genjtusu is subjective

I don't remember Orochimaru having any kind of a shield? Mind saying what this 'shield' is?​

 

[Nattana]

Orochimaru can only basically counter Amaterasu by reviving himself and that's not really something that would help his temmate at all nor does he have actual fire-power comparable to that of any of these three characters. Manda would become Itachi's pet so the only thing he has left is some smaller snakes and Kusanagi which Kakuzu can keep on repelling, burning, smashing, whatever..​

Improved Shadow Clone says hi to Amaterasu.

Manda isn't becoming anyone's pet until you show me any feats of Itachi controling anyone with his Genjutsu. Moreover, there are 2 more characters to free Manda from it AND 5 more Orochimaru's Giant Snake summons - each of one being almost of Tsunade's Katsuyu size.

Kakuzu is getting simply outsped by Orochimaru and Itachi spamming his MS techniques will only do a favour to team 2, killing himself before team2 would even have to do anything.

 

[blazekev90]

I don't remember Orochimaru having any kind of a shield? Mind saying what this 'shield' is?​

I'm not getting to collect all the scans needed to emphasis this, but I'll use one and I'll explain.

Spoiler

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Orochimaru has the ability to use snakes to wrap himself or an opponent with Hidden Shadow Snake Hands. As recent chapters have shown, the size of these snakes can increase in larger sizes that can cover/wrap an entire body. The speed of the feat is indeed fast, we see the snakes were able to taka in mid swing and shown against Kabuto (bridge scene)

Orochimaru being able to sense amaterasu grants him the ability to predict its prep and take the steps needed.

 

[Bronze]

Lol. Perfect Jinchuuriki's Genjutsu breaking mechanism is the same as anyone else's. What are you even talking about?

And what is head-cutting even doing to Orochimaru? His body reaplement can be used from any body part and considering that it's his True Form hidden somewhere in his body OR his own dimension, cutting any part of his human shell isn't going to kill him.

Moreover, he was careless about Totsuka because he didn't know it was it. He himself stated that such 'mere wounds' aren't going to do shit to him. Now that he has intel on it, he's not gonna let himself get caught by it.

No its not because if it was then Kakashi would have got out but he didn't. Itachi already stated that in one caught in his Genjutsu has no chance of breaking it [

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] except PJ. Orochimaru was caught by one of Itachi's weak genjutsu for that.

Moving on...Itachi the first time had only warned him. But now, he can do the same thing as before, cast Genjutsu and manifest Susanoo with Totsuka, he can seal him and Orochimaru can shed in the dream thus defeating him.

Well he will get hit while his mind is in illusion.

 

[blazekev90]

Yes because orochimaru will be able to react instantly every time amaterasu is about be used? And how is Manda 2 caught in genjutsu subjective?

well exactly how many times do you expect Itachi use amaterasu? 2-3?

Genjutsu close-mid range, if Manda is summoned out of this range he'll be safe. Snakes have the ability to sense their prey w/o eye contact.

 

[Prince Charles]

Blazekev your still on this sensing amaterasu? Do you not remember what I told you? Unless you found more proof suggesting orochimaru can sense amaterasu?

well exactly how many times do you expect Itachi use amaterasu? 2-3?

Genjutsu close-mid range, if Manda is summoned out of this range he'll be safe. Snakes have the ability to sense their prey w/o eye contact.

Regardless even though snakes can sense their victims pressure that doesn't mean Manda 2 is not vulnerable to making eye contact in the slightest. Regarding amaterasu I can not give my though on that since I cant say how many times he will be able to use amaterasu.

 

[blazekev90]

Blazekev your still on this sensing amaterasu? Do you not remember what I told you? Unless you found more proof suggesting orochimaru can sense amaterasu?



Regardless even though snakes can sense their victims pressure that doesn't mean Manda 2 is not vulnerable to making eye contact in the slightest. Regarding amaterasu I can not give my though on that since I cant say how many times he will be able to use amaterasu.

*Sigh*

Black Zetsu has no feats of his own, anything he displayed was white Zetsu feat. I though the latest chapter would have helped you understand this by now.

I didn't say Manda wasn't vulnerable, i said this is subjective. Mnada II being caught in genjtusu has a 50/50 chance, but seeing able it has both Orochimaru and Sasori on its side....

 

[Prince Charles]

*Sigh*

Black Zetsu has no feats of his own, anything he displayed was white Zetsu feat. I though the latest chapter would have helped you understand this by now.

I didn't say Manda wasn't vulnerable, i said this is subjective. Mnada II being caught in genjtusu has a 50/50 chance, but seeing able it has both Orochimaru and Sasori on its side....

kakuzu's mask should be more than enough to keep manda 2 occupied. And if you are are correct regarding orochimaru being able to sense then I might just change my mind.

 

[NarutoIndra]

kakuzu's mask should be more than enough to keep manda 2 occupied. And if you are are correct regarding orochimaru being able to sense then I might just change my mind.

Yea white zetsu can sense if he melds chakra, so the same would apply to Orochimaru. Genjutsu on Manda 2 easily makes him switch teams and attack Sasori/Oro, there's no slight chance in this, it's certain.

 

[blazekev90]

kakuzu's mask should be more than enough to keep manda 2 occupied. And if you are are correct regarding orochimaru being able to sense then I might just change my mind.

White Zetsu is Hashimara's clone. Hashimara was credited for being a senor, but not on the level of his brother.

Black Zetsu is nothing more than Madara's will wrapped around white Zetsu, now he's wrapped on Obito. He has the ability to use the abilities of whomever he connects with. I told you to stop listening to just anyone on here.

Kakuzu'z mask are not a threat to anyone. The moment they emerge, Sasori's Iron spike stomps that. In regard to Mnada II, Manda tanks most of their attack, remember Manda II is stronger and more durable than the original Manda. Manda wrecks them and/or avoids their attack by travelling underground.

 

[Prince Charles]

Yea white zetsu can sense if he melds chakra, so the same would apply to Orochimaru. Genjutsu on Manda 2 easily makes him switch teams and attack Sasori/Oro, there's no slight chance in this, it's certain.

Alright blazekev I agree that orochimaru can sense. But the process of him molding chakra can leave him vulnerable as well due to the concentration and focusing of chakra.'

White Zetsu is Hashimara's clone. Hashimara was credited for being a senor, but not on the level of his brother.

Black Zetsu is nothing more than Madara's will wrapped around white Zetsu, now he's wrapped on Obito. He has the ability to use the abilities of whomever he connects with. I told you to stop listening to just anyone on here.

Kakuzu'z mask are not a threat to anyone. The moment they emerge, Sasori's Iron spike stomps that. In regard to Mnada II, Manda tanks most of their attack, remember Manda II is stronger and more durable than the original Manda. Manda wrecks them and/or avoids their attack by travelling underground.

Yes I agree that Orochimaru should be capable of sensing. Regarding sasori's iron sand spike? are you referring to iron sand world? If so I agree so reason by the masks can't gain altitude and evade it. While sasori is making the iron sand that simply leaves him vulnerable to a sussano arrow or yaska magatama from itachi, kakuzu is still here as well.

Regarding manda 2 durability yeah I agree that he can tank the masks attacks but what I what I was getting at the masks job are to simply keep manda 2 at bay. Nevertheless manda 2 is still prone to genjutsu from itachi.

 

[blazekev90]

Alright blazekev I agree that orochimaru can sense. But the process of him molding chakra can leave him vulnerable as well due to the concentration and focusing of chakra.

I agree, but remember we discussed this on your page. With a team, Orochimaru is given the time to concentrate and mold chakra, as there are others defending for them. Sasori having Iron Sand is able to execute this rather easily

 

[Prince Charles]

I agree, but remember we discussed this on your page. With a team, Orochimaru is given the time to concentrate and mold chakra, as there are others defending for them. Sasori having Iron Sand is able to execute this rather easily

I cant agree. I would normally if sasori and orochimaru were going up against ninja such as asuma and kakashi but they are facing 2 high caliber shinobi, I doubt sasori will be capable of keeping itachi and kakuzu busy while orochimaru is molding his chakra to sense, if thats the case sasori get's finished faster than I thought. Iron sand won't be able to protect him from the attacks of kakuzu and itachi.

 

[NarutoIndra]

Lol at this being discussed, team 1 destroys team 2 low-mid diff.. And Orochimaru sensing doesn't mean he will dodge Amateratsu. It's doubtable that SM Naruto can dodge, saying Orochimaru can dodge due to his sensing skills is inaccurate due to its immense speed. Recall the time Lee said you may be capable of anticipating something but if your body isn't fast enough, it's futile. Same applies to Oro. Anyways, Oro isn't standing still the entire match either, and with Itachi's precognition, he can easily hit Oro with amateratsu, since pro will not react with his sensing, nor will he have speed great enough to dodge it as even CM2 Sasuke failed to dodge it when it was launched whilst he was running. ISWM isn't affecting anyone. Kakuzu uses Domu and Itachi shunshins away or activates v1 Susano. Oro dies from a single Tsukoyomi, he's not stopping it, nor is Zetsu going to help him before three seconds ends, as they are not in perfect collaboration as a perfect jinchuriki is. He's vulnerable to genjutsu as shown in the manga, so opposing this statement is pointless. Sasori being left, Atsugai combines with Zukkoku shit on Hiruko. Once Hiruko is destroyed, Amateratsu burns Sasori to a crisp. How is this matchup even debatable? Manda 2 gets controlled as he's already been controlled by Sasuke, with heavily inferior genjutsu skills. IS is also not stopping amateratsu, it's not as fast as Gaara's sand due to it's much heavier weight, and it also isn't automatic..

 

[blazekev90]

I cant agree. I would normally if sasori and orochimaru were going up against ninja such as asuma and kakashi but they are facing 2 high caliber shinobi, I doubt sasori will be capable of keeping itachi and kakuzu busy while orochimaru is molding his chakra to sense, if thats the case sasori get's finished faster than I thought. Iron sand won't be able to protect him from the attacks of kakuzu and itachi.

I see where you're coming from, but take into account how each character fights.

Orochimaru summons snakes instantly, Sasori once feeling pressured uses the 3rd Kazekage, Kakuzu has never rushed into battle and Itachi usually watch how the situation plays out.

In this battle, out of the 4 of them, Sasori is most destructive. Sasori can't keep them busy the entire time and Orochimaru wouldn't depend on that. Sensing comes into play when necessary, as we've seen. Orochimaru techniques don't require his involvement, such as; summoning snakes, using distant wind release, gates etc. So, him frequently needing sense something he is already aware of (prior knowledge of amaterasu) is done so with ease. For example, Nagato while fighting Bee and Naruto was able to sense charka being concentrated in Itachi's left eye and assumed amaterasu was being used.

 

[blazekev90]

Lol at this being discussed, team 1 destroys team 2 low-mid diff.. And Orochimaru sensing doesn't mean he will dodge Amateratsu. It's doubtable that SM Naruto can dodge, saying Orochimaru can dodge due to his sensing skills is inaccurate due to its immense speed. Recall the time Lee said you may be capable of anticipating something but if your body isn't fast enough, it's futile. Same applies to Oro. Anyways, Oro isn't standing still the entire match either, and with Itachi's precognition, he can easily hit Oro with amateratsu, since pro will not react with his sensing, nor will he have speed great enough to dodge it as even CM2 Sasuke failed to dodge it when it was launched whilst he was running. ISWM isn't affecting anyone. Kakuzu uses Domu and Itachi shunshins away or activates v1 Susano. Oro dies from a single Tsukoyomi, he's not stopping it, nor is Zetsu going to help him before three seconds ends, as they are not in perfect collaboration as a perfect jinchuriki is. He's vulnerable to genjutsu as shown in the manga, so opposing this statement is pointless. Sasori being left, Atsugai combines with Zukkoku shit on Hiruko. Once Hiruko is destroyed, Amateratsu burns Sasori to a crisp. How is this matchup even debatable? Manda 2 gets controlled as he's already been controlled by Sasuke, with heavily inferior genjutsu skills. IS is also not stopping amateratsu, it's not as fast as Gaara's sand due to it's much heavier weight, and it also isn't automatic..

Just to clarify, it's not about dodging amaterasu at all. This about shielding oneself of amaterasu. Mental preparation/reaction =/ bodily reaction, this is why when discussing reaction time, we have to take into consideration both processes.

Orochimaru is vulnerable to gnejtusu, we acknowledge that. However, he has also shown the ability to resist uchica genjutsu, that's manga scans provided. Tsukoyomi is a KO, but that's a close range technique. Itachi blitzing Orochimaru, someone fast himself and with sensing ability to debatable, especially with his partner standing there.

Kakuzu's offense serve as distractions, nothing more IMO