[VS] Tsunade vs. Kimimaro
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soloGodtachi
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1 Orochimaru retreated against a very weak version of Kyuubi
2 it was 4on2
3 Kimimaro is more durable than Orochimaru... he overpowered one of Gaara's strongest attacks when he was dying and wasn't even supposed to be able to move
TheEvilOne
Active member
1. The very weak version of Kyuubi was able to use TBB. This very weak Kyuubi was above the Sannin's level. This very weak version of Kyuubi can most likely defeat the one and two tailed beasts.
2. Tsunade was run out of chakra, Jiraiya's ribs were broken, Shizune was a non factor, Naruto was KO-d. Orochimaru had plenty of chakra left.
3. I hope you are kidding now.
Are you Totsuka GG Amaterasu GG's alt?
soloGodtachi
Member
1 his TBB couldn't break Oro's fodder gates...
2 doesn't matter... the fact that Tsunade couldn't kill him shits on the famous "one phuch from Tsunade gg" argument
3 reread the Kimimaro vs Gaara fight... a dying Kimimaro withstood one of Gaara's strongest attacks in fact
I don't even know who are you talking about
TheEvilOne
Active member
Don't even try to deny it. He is the only one who underrates Orochimaru and Tsunade to this level.
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soloGodtachi
Member
I dont underrate anyone
I state facts from the manga
a sick Kimimaro who isn't even supposed to be able to move overpowers Gaara [
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]4tK Naruto can't overpower 3rashoumon [
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]Oro states he can't continue the fight [
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]It was written by Kishi
Kishi's words > your overestimation towards the sannin
sorry for shitting on your arguments
What an evidence? There is no evidence. Sawarabi no Mai is Sawarabi no Mai. You may missed the part where the bones shooting out of the ground against the Uchiha brothers proved
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. What is the difference whether Kimimaro is buried or not? He will simply build these bones around his body and than expand the range over the whole battlefield. As he in canon is able to merge with his bones, he could simply disappear within his forest to stay unaffected, while the bones will cover the whole area. And even if the range wouldn't be that large, Tsunade wouldn't easily avoid it, she wouldn't avoid it at all. She has no counter for the Sawarabi no Mai as much as you now try to use fanboy logic. When Tsunade was bisected, she was anyway left defeated and the Kusanagi blade, as I already said, would be less effective than Kimimaro's Tessenka no Mai: Hana, as the area affected by latter is by far larger. If Madara would have pierced Tsunades chest with Susanoo's sword or her head instead of her abdomen, the effect would be another. But for the plots sake, any attack Tsunade got was to her abdomen, where regeneration would prove more success. If you think about it logical, Kimimaro's Tessenka no Mai: Hana would not only crush Tsunade's thorax but seriously damage organs like the heart if not fully destroy it.
Katsuyu is another story, but since she's restricted, I'm not bothering to argue about her.
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Why compare Sabaku Taiso, a crushing based attack with an explosive one? You agree CES is an explosive attack, not a crushing attack? The reason why it is an explosive attack is because CES punch causes the nearby ground to shatter much like what happens in an explosion. Gaara's sand can't create an explosive type impact hence the two attacks are completely different. Anyway, the internal damage caused by Tsunade's punch will only make it easier for Kimimaro to succumb to disease as his already decaying internal organs will rot away due to the sheer force and momentum they'll have to withstand. Kimimaro doesn't have high level regeneration. All he has is the ability to reform broken bones. If he takes damage to his vitals, he is screwed because unlike Tsunade, he doesn't have cellular regeneration.
What? Yamato's mokuton can stretch to the size of an island.
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As for Sawarbi no mae, the bones will impale her but then she'll just destroy the ground that is producing the bones or yank one of them out and then slash all the bones. Even still, Kimimaro
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to grow bones from the ground. The reason why these two were surprised was because Kimimaro was buried when he initiated the technqiue. Against Tsunade, while he initiates the technique and starts producing all those bones, Tsunade will rush him and prevent him from doing so. To use Tessenka no mae, Kimimaro first has to
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. Tsuande isn't giving him the time to do so because unlike Gaara, Tsunade is a CQC fighter who will be constantly on Kimimaro. How will Kimimaro defend himself while he is busy pulling out his spine? If Kimimaro restrains Tsunade with his
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, Tsunade would just use her sheer strength to break out of the hold. Not only that, but you clearly underestimate Tsunade's evasion prowess. Medical ninjas are
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in the art of evasion unlike Gaara so that tactic of yours that Kimimaro may use is not going to work. Also the
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that impaled Tsunade were stronger than Kimimaro's strongest bone which
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pre time skip Gaara's sand. Clearly the susanoo clones were giving
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whereas Kimimaro's bones were giving pre time skip Gaara a hard time. Not only that, but the susanoo swords are also thicker. Hitting Tsunade in the
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isn't killing her as Byakogu will heal any damage applied to her body. Obito already got
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and wasn't fazed. This is a fictional manga so saying Tsunade dies if her heart is pierced is a false assumption. Kimimaro can probably beat a rusty part one Tsunade with high difficulty if Katsuyu is restricted as he was superior to part one Kabuto.
How exactly is Kimimaro faster than Tsunade when Tsunade has been shown to run a 50 m distance before Madara has a chance to activate a full susanoo. He resorted to rib cage to defend himself from Tsunade's blitz.
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Before Tsunade began her attack, she was
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. Saying Kimimaro is faster because the data book says so is blatantly false due to the fact that it is very old. Byakogou probably increases speed as by feats, both Sakura and Tsunade became faster. Also, Tsunade can blitz Kimimaro by using chakra control to boost her speed just like how part one Sakura managed to blitz Ino after
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with chakra in her legs. Do keep in mind that Tsunade's yin seal stores a massive amount of chakra so I doubt that Kimimaro can outspeed or outlast Tsunade. Anyway, Kimimaro has been shown to trade blows and exchange in a taijutsu skirmish with his opposition like he did against Lee.
Here are a few of the times Kimimaro openly clashed attacks with Lee.
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Now if Kimimaro does this with Tsunade, he would be
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like Sakura sent the Juubi clone flying and then he will be at Tsunade's mercy. Tsunade can simply smash him
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ground like she already did against Madara's susanoo clones. Kimimaro will suffer a tremendous amount of internal damage so he won't be able to get out of the way allowing Tsunade to continue doing this until he is completely obliterated. Now you seem to think that Kimimaro can catch Tsunade off guard when he appears inside his bone forest. I'll show you how wrong you are. Tsunade's acute sense of hearing is so sharp that she can tell whether a
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or not. She'll definitely be able to hear Kimimaro's heart beat when he appears from Sawarbi no mae. Anyway your response was quite convincing so I'll say Tsunade takes this with mid difficulty at best instead of low.
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@Icelerate, ah I see, you worked together with Tazzilla, using the same fail logic and scans. I'll reply to you later. A flawed post indeed, though you promised me it would be a post I wouldn't even be able to counter. A pity you couldn't see my smirk right now.
ShippudenRules
Member
Tsunade wins mid diff max. Kimmimaro isn't beating her if her Byakogou is activated.
sharingansennin
Active member
tsunade shits on him, people seriously overrate kimimaro, she's a sannin people. hell guy could shit on kimimaro don't need tsunade for that.
ILikeBigYolos
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FemmeFatale
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It's like she hulk vs basic wolverine.
Tsunade stomps low diffucluty, He will try to stab her with his bone, but i doubt his bone is stronger than her first.
SHe doesn't even need to activate creation rebirth. One punch is all she need. Or Katsuyu can just spit on him
Tsunade stomps low diffucluty, He will try to stab her with his bone, but i doubt his bone is stronger than her first.
SHe doesn't even need to activate creation rebirth. One punch is all she need. Or Katsuyu can just spit on him
Black Wolf
Active member
Kimimaro handily takes this as he has every applicable advantage. He is significantly faster (according to the databook, he has speed comparable to the likes of Sasuke and Kakashi as of the Pain invasion, which is impressive), and is just as skilled in Taijutsu. He can avoid hand to hand combat by harassing her with long range finger bullets.
However, if he chooses to engage in close quarter combat, he can enhance his CQC using bone swords (which increase his striking range significantly). Its questionable how much damage one of Tsunade's punches can do to him given he casually strolled through Gaara's sand burials that would normally reduce the human body to a puddle of blood, but in the unlikely event that she manages to land a hit on him and damage him, he can heal thanks to his bloodline limit. Katsuyu does not need to be restricted when Kimimaro can use his bone forest to maim everything within the area.
I think Kimimaro is vastly underestimated. He fought through what can essentially be classified as a "gauntlet" of the manga's strongest rookies whilst on his death bed, and would have killed them all if not for his illness kicking in. He was also Orochimaru's top most desired body, and that's saying a lot when Sasuke was already on that list.
It's also hilarious that you say "Genin Gaara" when Gaara probably became the Kazekage shortly after that battle. Implying he is Genin level when he was casually killing Jonin and assassins hired by his father as a child is ridiculous.
However, if he chooses to engage in close quarter combat, he can enhance his CQC using bone swords (which increase his striking range significantly). Its questionable how much damage one of Tsunade's punches can do to him given he casually strolled through Gaara's sand burials that would normally reduce the human body to a puddle of blood, but in the unlikely event that she manages to land a hit on him and damage him, he can heal thanks to his bloodline limit. Katsuyu does not need to be restricted when Kimimaro can use his bone forest to maim everything within the area.
I think Kimimaro is vastly underestimated. He fought through what can essentially be classified as a "gauntlet" of the manga's strongest rookies whilst on his death bed, and would have killed them all if not for his illness kicking in. He was also Orochimaru's top most desired body, and that's saying a lot when Sasuke was already on that list.
Gaara did no such thing. Kimimaro laughed off Gaara's sand burials and survived a tidal wave of sand being dumped on him. He was seconds away from piercing Gaara and Lee's brains if it weren't for his illness kicking in, and this was after he demolished Naruto's Kyuubi enhanced army of shadow clones and Rock Lee, all while on the verge of death.
It's also hilarious that you say "Genin Gaara" when Gaara probably became the Kazekage shortly after that battle. Implying he is Genin level when he was casually killing Jonin and assassins hired by his father as a child is ridiculous.
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TheEvilOne
Active member
Black Wolf
Active member
When did he say that? And even if he did, his feats of walking through Gaara's sand coffins unharmed would vastly outweigh that.
So, where to start, Ice? I will simply start refuting the parts of your post.
You surely don't understand the mechanism of Kimimaro's body, as it differs from the mechanism of the body of a normal human. In order for Kimimaro to have access to his bones, latter have to find their way through his flesh and skin, tearing it up. Without a high level regeneration which allows him to render the wounds which have occurred when he takes or shoot out his bones out useless, this Kekkei Genkai would be useless. So this recovery is granted him automatically with his Kekkei Genkai [
Once Kimimaro laid his hands on the ground, he will immediately start producing a high amount of bones, stretching over the whole battlefield. Here it doesn't matter if he was buried back then or not, because the fight against the Uchiha brothers and their insightful eyes shows that there is only a brief movement Kimimaro needs to create this technique. This technique will always surprise, as Kimimaro's attitude doesn't indicate what will happen until the bones start appearing all of a sudden from all directions. The time Kimimaro takes to grow this bones is so insignificant that both Gaara and Lee were overwhelmed by the fast broadening of the bone forest [
Destroying the ground is a scenario which also isn't happening. The depth the bones are coming from or reach in the ground can only be speculated at first view, but the fact, that Kimimaro used this technique from a depth of 200 meters and had a connection to his forest to escape this depth where he, according to Gaara shouldn't be able to move a single finger, is feat enough to guarantee the bones have a deep and firm anchorage, so the forest isn't stopped by Tsunade who will crush the upper level of the ground. While the ground beneath Tsunade's feet is going to be crushed, Kimimaro will just keep his forest growing to also shoot out bones at exactly this spot - considering the depth from which they can come, it won't be a hindrance for them to grow from a destroyed ground as well. Plus, Tsunade will may be limited to one move of such an extent as the speed of the forests growth won't allow her to act more extensive. Well, these are all assumption I backed up with Manga scans in the end, while it were mere claims from your side which are partially far from authenticity. Tsunade hasn't a real and logical counter for the Sawarabi no Mai, this technique is well suited for someone like her, who is limited to close combat with Taijutsu. She hasn't shown any significant Ninjutsu (apart from medical Jutsu) or other specific abilities which could support her against this bone forest. Mere Taijutsu and brute strength isn't useful against a technique of this form. Restricting this technique, I would doubt Kimimaro's win against Tsunade in the long run, but with this technique as his trump card, Kimimaro could take a safe win.
Comparing Susanoo's sword with Kimimaro's Tassenka no Mai: Hana is like comparing apples with pears. You say the swords have more power when the power comes from Susanoo itself. It wasn't just one Susanoo that hit Gaara's defense but 5 at once, being able to overwhelm it. Plus, it was Gaara's strongest defense which thwarted Kimimaro's TnM: Hana which was explained by Gaara by collecting the strongest minerals from the underground to pressurize them into dense sand [
And as for your scan with the hole in Obito's chest, I thought that the Manga already clarified it was just an illusion [
I marked for you the content in green which happened between the two panels you marked in red so that you can realize what actually happened.
During this period, they both managed to exchange 6 sentences. When Tsunade jumped towards Madara, she began to explain her technique in two sentences. After that, Madara totally calmed mentioned the part with the Jinton getting rid of the pollen and beyond that putting in straight that adding a medical Ninja won't change the outcome. At the end, Tsunade, who yet didn't reach Madara, had the time to point out two things. And then, she reached Madara, who decided to use Susanoo's ribcage to block Tsunade's punch, being aware this would be enough to stop her.
To you realize how absurd the idea was, that Tsunade would blitz a man who proved great Shunsin no Jutsu [
Anway, GG. Kimimaro wins with high difficult.
Why would I agree with you when this is a simple error in reasoning? You can't pigeonhole two different types of attack because of similar effects on a specific material. The ground is designed to be shattered with brute force, something Gaara's sand can't achieve. Depended by the target - in this case a human body - Gaara's sand proves similar way of damage Tsunade's brute force causes. I don't know where you get your comparison between Tsunade's punches and explosive forces from when in the end, both Gaara's sand and Tsunade's punch are designed to crush the respective target albeit being based on two different types of mechanisms. What makes Gaara's type of attack more effective in the end is the fashion of how it works. Unlike Tsunade's punch, which penetration power is depended by the opponent as well when the momentum of Tsunade's attack can be reduced by various conditions like the opponents agility, protection and the angle in which he is hit, Gaara's sand completely buries the opponent and thus taking all of his mobility and ways to protect himself while same time crushing the whole of his body with the high pressure of his sand. And if I compare what power Gaara's sand proved in comparison with Tsunade's punches against a human, it appears that former has the edge. Jiraiya once told that Tsunade, when being in rage, hit him up to a point he was left almost dead with plenty of broken bones (including ribs and his arm), demonstrating her brute strength while all under the premise of surprise effect and unawareness which didn't allow Jiraiya considering protection. As opposed to this, already Gaara'sIcelerate said:
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proved more destructive capacity against a victim than Tsunade's punches all the time (when she had the opportunity of showing feats against Orochimaru and Kabuto) by squashing the target to a point he learned fast death and turned into a fountain of blood; a technique Kimimaro survived pretty much unharmed because of his properties [
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]. Sabaku Taiso is just a far stronger version that would turn a human to paste in a normal case with a pressure taken from sand masses which are covering a whole area. As for Kimimaro, in his second Juin form, he survived it again without the slightest harm.You surely don't understand the mechanism of Kimimaro's body, as it differs from the mechanism of the body of a normal human. In order for Kimimaro to have access to his bones, latter have to find their way through his flesh and skin, tearing it up. Without a high level regeneration which allows him to render the wounds which have occurred when he takes or shoot out his bones out useless, this Kekkei Genkai would be useless. So this recovery is granted him automatically with his Kekkei Genkai [
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]. Seeing how he regenerates the wounds caused by himself as a side effect of taking out bones, there is no indication why it wouldn't work when the same damage is left to him by another person. Technically speaking, Kimimaro has a high level regeneration started from his skin up to his bones. Seeing how Kimimaro made use of his bones to survive Gaara's techniques unharmed by forming even bone armors to cover his whole body (note that his bones are harder than steel) a scenario in which Tsunade catches him off guard and hits him with a force that shatters his body and injures his vital organs (when Tsunade didn't even considered to use this level of her strength against foe's like Kabuto and Orochimaru) is rather not expected. The extent of your imagination of Tsunade's capabilities are reaching a point where it is almost laughable to argue with you. You believe in scenarios of Tsunade being fast enough to rush Kimimaro up before he uses Sawarabi no Mai when it's enough to lay his hands on the ground for shooting them out immediately, even surprising the Uchiha brothers [Icelerate said:
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] and Kimimaro being overtaken by Tsunade in the period of time he is busy taking out his spine or her blitzing an Uchiha over a distance of 50 meters (keep your response to this for the next clause). No offense, but you lose your reliability.Once Kimimaro laid his hands on the ground, he will immediately start producing a high amount of bones, stretching over the whole battlefield. Here it doesn't matter if he was buried back then or not, because the fight against the Uchiha brothers and their insightful eyes shows that there is only a brief movement Kimimaro needs to create this technique. This technique will always surprise, as Kimimaro's attitude doesn't indicate what will happen until the bones start appearing all of a sudden from all directions. The time Kimimaro takes to grow this bones is so insignificant that both Gaara and Lee were overwhelmed by the fast broadening of the bone forest [
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] and saw the only possibility in flying out of the range, which crossed the whole area. As fast as the growth of the bone forest is, as incalculably it is. When you consider Tsunade to take out one of those huge, deep-seated bones (Kimimaro could grow them from a depth of 200 meters), you may don't consider that the forest keeps growing, impaling anything what is in its way and thus Tsunade, who stands right at their way, bothering to take out one of them and trying to play out such an irrational scenario you believe in. Trying to do this, she would do nothing but run right into the attack. Destroying the ground is a scenario which also isn't happening. The depth the bones are coming from or reach in the ground can only be speculated at first view, but the fact, that Kimimaro used this technique from a depth of 200 meters and had a connection to his forest to escape this depth where he, according to Gaara shouldn't be able to move a single finger, is feat enough to guarantee the bones have a deep and firm anchorage, so the forest isn't stopped by Tsunade who will crush the upper level of the ground. While the ground beneath Tsunade's feet is going to be crushed, Kimimaro will just keep his forest growing to also shoot out bones at exactly this spot - considering the depth from which they can come, it won't be a hindrance for them to grow from a destroyed ground as well. Plus, Tsunade will may be limited to one move of such an extent as the speed of the forests growth won't allow her to act more extensive. Well, these are all assumption I backed up with Manga scans in the end, while it were mere claims from your side which are partially far from authenticity. Tsunade hasn't a real and logical counter for the Sawarabi no Mai, this technique is well suited for someone like her, who is limited to close combat with Taijutsu. She hasn't shown any significant Ninjutsu (apart from medical Jutsu) or other specific abilities which could support her against this bone forest. Mere Taijutsu and brute strength isn't useful against a technique of this form. Restricting this technique, I would doubt Kimimaro's win against Tsunade in the long run, but with this technique as his trump card, Kimimaro could take a safe win.
Tsunade won't give Kimimaro the time to pull his spine out? Really? Taking out his spine is a matter of little seconds. Considering Kimimaro possesses more speed and agility than Tsunade, he was doing good in dodging Gaara's sand and keeping up with Lee, who isn't only slightly faster than Tsunade in the databook (a canon source what you like to deny) but increased the speed and unpredictability of his attacks by a great amount when drinking his sake. Lee is also a CQC fighter and turns into a frenzy state when drinking sake according to Gai [Icelerate said:
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]. Despite all this, Kimimaro was very well able to keep up with Lee and take time for creating weapons. Featwise, Tsunade has no evasion prowess at all, her fighting style is designed slow and linear bounded, which is based on dealing out and receiving a great amount of damage, which is outlasted by her regenerative abilities. It's enough to take a look on how much she received against Kabuto, Orochimaru and Madara, to say the evasion prowess of her is rather your hype than a feat. Comparing Susanoo's sword with Kimimaro's Tassenka no Mai: Hana is like comparing apples with pears. You say the swords have more power when the power comes from Susanoo itself. It wasn't just one Susanoo that hit Gaara's defense but 5 at once, being able to overwhelm it. Plus, it was Gaara's strongest defense which thwarted Kimimaro's TnM: Hana which was explained by Gaara by collecting the strongest minerals from the underground to pressurize them into dense sand [
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] and nevertheless, Kimimaro's attack managed to penetrate this defense deep enough. [
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]. What you don't consider when comparing the form of damage left by Susanoo's sword and the spear is, that the amount of latter is indeed. Though having roughly the same diameter, Kimimaro's spear has all in all a considerably higher coverage. Susanoo's sword has a large but small plain, while Kimimaro's spear is thick enough to leave a hole that would cover one's whole chest, leaving a hole that is considerably larger than the one left when Kakashi uses Raikiri [
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], leading to unavoidable death. No regeneration can carry such an amount of damage, when your complete thorax is crushed along with your heart and other initial organs. That surely isn't comparable with a smaller Susanoo blade [
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] which pierced only her stomach. And as for your scan with the hole in Obito's chest, I thought that the Manga already clarified it was just an illusion [
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] and when Kakashi really left a hole at Obito's upper body part, the story was that he was left at the blink of death. Surviving this even with regeneration would prove difficult as the amount and form of damage that is caused is too significant. How do you consider Tsunade to regenerate a hole of a footballs size? The amount of damage is just too great and there are too significant body parts which have to be restored. Mere logic let me consider that this is out of her regenerative capacities. This is the most pathetic part of your post. By marking the exactly two panels of Tsunade jumping towards Madara and appearing before him, indicating she would have blitzed an Uchiha over a distance of 50 meters (when it aren't even 50 meters but less), you completely missed the chitchat Tsunade had with Madara within the time of running towards him and reaching him.Icelerate said:
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During this period, they both managed to exchange 6 sentences. When Tsunade jumped towards Madara, she began to explain her technique in two sentences. After that, Madara totally calmed mentioned the part with the Jinton getting rid of the pollen and beyond that putting in straight that adding a medical Ninja won't change the outcome. At the end, Tsunade, who yet didn't reach Madara, had the time to point out two things. And then, she reached Madara, who decided to use Susanoo's ribcage to block Tsunade's punch, being aware this would be enough to stop her.
To you realize how absurd the idea was, that Tsunade would blitz a man who proved great Shunsin no Jutsu [
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] and is blessed with insightful ocular powers [
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] over a distance of 50 meters so latter could only insist on his Susanoo as a last resort, while not even having the time to use its full form when he already proved he can activate the perfect Susanoo instantly? It's hard to take you serious. These are the arguments you called flawless and impossible to counter in my presence? You should end the debate and leave as a fair loser. Lee's speed has a slightly higher state in the databook (a canon source after all), he proved more agility than Tsunade and has drunk his Sake to purposely increase the unpredictability and speed of his attacks [Icelerate said:
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]. Lee increased his speed up to the point he could even avoid Kimimaro's Dance of the Camellia [
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], where Tsunade's speed, agility and reaction clearly pales in comparison with and her fighting style is designed to receive the most hits used on her to outlast them with regeneration. Even then, in the end, Kimimaro got the upper hand against Lee because of his own unpredictability, where someone like Tsunade would easily fall to. In all appearances of Tsunade, she never showed speed feats in a battle that would be worthy more than a databook state of 3.5. I mean, If you think the databook stats have no weight and want to give Tsunade such great speed feats you wish, looking at Kimimaro's Dance of the Camellia, I could decide to give Kimimaro a 5 in speed, maybe a 5 in Chakra because he fought alternately against Naruto, Lee and Gaara. Icelerate said:
............Icelerate said:
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Anway, GG. Kimimaro wins with high difficult.
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