Tsunade vs Hidan
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MisterEggPirate88
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And the Argument that Hidan gets up in the air after Tsunade punches the ground and then being hit by anything is stupid, Hidan has probably the most and best feats when it Comes to fight or dodge while jumping around or flying in the air (except the ones that can actually fly)
pateuvasiliu
Active member
She herself says she has been out from the ninja system for years. Kabuto used pills because he said that even if she were out of it, she's still one of the legendary 3, she hadn't slept for days, she was actually just out from a drunken state, etc, etc... Around chapter 157-160.
kay:
Tazzilla88
Active member
LMAO yeah ok. That totally makes sense. Weak Argument is weak.
Why would she train when by her own admission she quit. She was no longer a medic, her specialty, the villager elders thought it would be nearly impossible to find her so she obviously wasn't excepting missions. What purpose would she have to train when she's retired from that career? None. The term rusty clearly speaks about a decrease in her skill. Tsunade later mentions she's out of her prime. There are several other factors to consider as well. Also, it's manga volume 19 since my photo isn't good enough. You can check the volume yourself.
This is also a poor argument. Why? When measuring destructive force of something you would use A causes x amount of raw damage. X amount of raw damage was not enough to break C. B broke C with raw damage therefore B causes more than X amount of raw damage. That is sound logical progression. The A>B>C thing your spouting you obviously don't fully understand. It's the idea that character power generally can't be compared through A>B>C methods because abilities are so different and unique. Though sometimes A>B>C logic is applicable in the Narutoverse. For instance, if person M can be Tsunade, then person M can also beat Sakura. Or if person M can be Gai then person M can also beat Lee. You can't just run around screaming A>B>C logic without analyzing your own claims. That's foolishness.
The proper way to do what you just did is explain why they would be different but that would necessitate you understand how Tsunade's strength works. Which you obviously don't. Just looking at Sakura's punch it should be more than abundantly clear that Tsunade could clear out a mountain.
And now you're ignoring the obvious power scaling since part 1 and part 2. For instance in part 1, Tsunade's Yin seal could only heal her from a stab wound and two smaller slices from the sword of kusunagi. Now, her seal, which she's only had for a few weeks as opposed to the years she had it in part 1, can heal from multiple stabs from Susanoo swords, allows her to dole out chakra to three kage level ninja, give more chakra to Oonoki, heal from her entire body being burnt, making Oonoki's Jinton exponentially larger, use creation rebirth to heal injuries reminiscent to the ones she healed in part 1. What we've seen from her in the war arc is a significant difference in strength than part 1 Tsunade. Which in part may be due to powerscaling, and her being once again rusty. Another example, in the hokage fight on the roof, one of the Anbu remark how it's so amazing that Tobirama uses a suiton without water being present, now every fodder suiton based ninja can do that. Using suiton without water present is not a feat now, ergo, power has scaled up. Even Hiruzen shuriken have gotten larger.
You're also assuming Tsunade had killing intent when she hit Jiraiya. Which she obviously didn't as she could have killed him then and there as he couldn't have defended himself with both arms broken. In fact, the manga makes 3 references to Tsunade beating Jiraiya and it's likely that Tsunade merely wanted to teach him a lesson for peeping. Rather than killing her beloved friend. Also I would point out that an edo-tensei body is a human body covered in paper tags. I would also point out that whenever we've seen a wood clone get hit it looked like this.
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There's your first issue, Body Pathway Derangement isn't damage. It's short circuiting. Therefore, he feels the same way as any other human he can be short circuited in the same manner. You mention this idea of functioning properly. The inner philosophy major in me is coming out so let me discuss the issue with your "functioning properly" theory. For anything to be going properly when no creator is present to say what the proper way of function to be we base "properly" off of the normality bell-curve. What Hidan's arm is doing then would not be functioning properly, under this situation, as the situation would call for a normal arm to be crushed and ripped apart. Regardless, still nothing suggests he can't be ripped limb from limb considering he was cut limb from limb. By the force of a small explosion on wire. Also a person does in fact live after decapitation. What causes the brain and person to die is a combination of blood not flowing through the brain and thus the brain not receiving oxygen the way it demands, and blood loss. If someone could find a way to avoid both of these outcomes then they'll survive blood loss until they need nutrients from their food and water to keep their brain functioning. This has however, doesn't affect the point that I was made. The connection between the brain and the body, is the nervous system. Which Tsunade reroutes via Body Pathway Derangement. So by your logic for the same reason he couldn't move his toes when he was decapitated he'll be affected by BPD. Which really doesn't need to be said. So you're telling me that if we scoop Hidan's brain out his skull and cut it down into mince meat, because the brain is an organ, and communicates through the nervous system, that Hidan would still be able to interact with the world? If he were to function flawlessly that would mean he would be dead. If we were to take all the tendons and muscles out of Hidan's body, you're telling me he could still run? And if his spine was removed he could still flip? And if all the water was removed he would still be able to move. If his intestines were removed could he still defecate? If his ear drums were popped could he still hear? If his eyes were gouged could he still see? If his tongue is removed could he still taste? If his olfactory glands were removed could he still smell? No, then the claims you are making is not valid. He clearly needs some body members to remain unharmed in order to remain mobile and capable.
I'm trying to decide if you purposely behaving dense or you're really this clueless. Yes Kabuto's strength was increased by DSM, but Tsunade has more chakra than a base Kabuto has, even after he's taken a soldier pill. And she has greater chakra control. But more than that Tsunade implied that she could use chakra scalpels offensively. And as she uses them for surgery and holding down Hidan with her strength would be a walk in a park, she could take as much time to dismember him as she pleases.
Now let's see, the woman who pressured Madara enough in CQC that he replaced his body with a wood clone will have no chance against Hidan and his slow scythe. Sounds legit. Furthermore, Jiraiya says that a prime Tsunade was unparalleled in taijutsu. She herself says that evasion is her specialty. The last part is a blatant lie as he tends not to worry but only out of a sense of false security. Such as when he got his head cut off. It was all fun and games for him until he lost his head. He's kind of stupid. And as I've already said and displayed there are numerous ways to take him out. Yet people insist on "hurr de derp Hidan's Immortal and therefore immune to all damage..... besides cutting herp de durr."
I feel pity for your soul. "Even Manda" Is it just me or wasn't Manda shown to be both fast and evasive. And weren't snakes shown to be high maneuverable? You know fully well that in 635 Katsuyu mini threatened Orochimaru with acid. Enough that Orochimaru said it could kill him.
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Because Hidan has god tier reflexes and and speed? No? Does Tsunade have better speed feats than Hidan? Hell Yes? Well I'm confused by what your argument is.
So I will try to make this as rudimentary as possible as I tend to be verbose. Madara clearly compares her strength and speed to Ay's
The reason for comparing strength is obvious, they both have super strength so in order for the readers to know who is stronger Kishi directly tells us, despite there already being hints of this. Kishi goes on to further highlight this difference in strength in the battle. So why compare speed? I think that because he was about to show Tsunade is high speed combat, he wanted readers to know that speed is still Ay's thing. His shtick if you will. However, that would also serve as a way of telling readers that she is not slow as she was worthy of being compared in this regard.
Argument 1
We'll first start by showing that Tsunade cleared a fairly large distance quickly which prompted Madara's comment. This is how far away from Madara Tsunade started out,
the distance is presented on the page starting 577 and again on page 3 where she covers the distance.
For those who claim because Kishi's proportions are sometimes off and that we shouldn't place much weight on the distance, then the distance seen on page 3 of chapter 577 should be the best approximation of distance to go by as that is the one used while she is closing the distance. Considering how fast the distance was closed, it is a natural conclusion that Tsunade moves quickly, and it was that quick motion to which Madara was referencing. I also find it odd, that Tsunade is the only character I've heard the "Kishi messed up on the distance, she didn't really move that fast" argument, when discussing speed feats. What I also find as odd, is that people claim Tsunade has never been said to be fast. Which is interesting considering, even in part 1 we saw her in one battle, a battle in which she was out of shape, and power levels were decreased. (I don't see some one trying to argue from part 1 feats in regards to any character who has a battle in part 2)The very next battle we've seen her in, Madara comments on her speed. And before she challenged Pein, she, in a fatigued state, managed to beat the Anbu to Pein and surprising SM Naruto
Notice the twitch in her eye, it means one of two things, either she noticed Pain was attacking, or that she realized she had reached her limit and could no more. The only thing which may remotely suggest average speed was the battle against Kabuto, who may I add is an evasion expert. And she still managed to surprise him a few times, as well as blitz her attendant, and catch Orochimaru off guard. But nothing has ever pointed to Tsunade being slow. Moving off of this tangent...
Argument 2Now because this feat comes directly before Madara's comments on speed, we can gather that the two are related. Similarly the following feat happens only two pages after his comment on her speed.
In the scan that's about to be presented. Ay and Oonoki are coming toward Madara's susanoo for a blitz.
Which is what serves to the reason that we can believe Tsunade is fast. A more careful examination of the page shows that Tsunade is no where in sight.
In fact, the last time we see her she is at the location where she punched his susanoo.
Another feature I'm not sure everyone had noticed, but Madara, had not seen her coming at all. Which means during that brief moment after Ay hit his susanoo and he looked at Ay she followed up without him seeing her coming.
Now some may try to argue, that Ay in fact hit Madara to Tsunade, but this is not the case as we can see in the scan that was meant to be a closer examination of the page. But looking at the very next page we can see they all share close proximity.
Which means this speed feat for Tsunade is valid.
Argument 3
The next scan involves her on the offensive once again. She managed to get from up here
all the way to punching what seems to be a Madara who is trying to get away.
Now notice her position relative to the other kage.
(This by the way is the distance at which she had traveled Not down to where Madara was but past that original position) At that point she was the person leading the offense and by Madara's admission he was forced to substitute himself with the Mokuton Bunshin.
Which would make it Tsunade pushing offense that made him resort to such measures.
Now notice the Distance Tsunade once again covers,
and this time notice how far Tsunade's attack managed to make it before Madara could counter attack.
Conclusion
All of the above indicate high speed movement.
Also I'd like to point out a few more things, she and Ay scared the bejeesus out of Bee and Naruto.
And I would like to point this out.
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The reason for comparing strength is obvious, they both have super strength so in order for the readers to know who is stronger Kishi directly tells us, despite there already being hints of this. Kishi goes on to further highlight this difference in strength in the battle. So why compare speed? I think that because he was about to show Tsunade is high speed combat, he wanted readers to know that speed is still Ay's thing. His shtick if you will. However, that would also serve as a way of telling readers that she is not slow as she was worthy of being compared in this regard.
Argument 1
We'll first start by showing that Tsunade cleared a fairly large distance quickly which prompted Madara's comment. This is how far away from Madara Tsunade started out,
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Argument 2Now because this feat comes directly before Madara's comments on speed, we can gather that the two are related. Similarly the following feat happens only two pages after his comment on her speed.
In the scan that's about to be presented. Ay and Oonoki are coming toward Madara's susanoo for a blitz.
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Argument 3
The next scan involves her on the offensive once again. She managed to get from up here
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Now notice the Distance Tsunade once again covers,
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Conclusion
All of the above indicate high speed movement.
Also I'd like to point out a few more things, she and Ay scared the bejeesus out of Bee and Naruto.
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Well, with me spending years training for martial arts it's pretty obvious that the scythe would be a slower weapon than say a straight sword. But even if we use physics it'd be an obvious conclusion. You mean the metal chain that was snapped by a fodder exploding tag.
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You have to be delusional. Not only would it be a theory at best, rather than fact. You haven't proved jack squat. Poison works depending on the poison being used. Obviously, they don't all work the same.
That just depends on their usage. A few Zetsu's already transformed back to wood when they died, while the Zetsu that transformed to Kisame to simulate his death before A and Bee didn't transform back to wood but remained his shape. Just as in Kisame's case, Madara's clone was meant to fool them and simulate his defeat so he can do a surprising attack, while Hashirama's clone had the only sense to escape Obito's attack.Tazzilla88 said:
It was a clone, unless you say that Madara, despite being in a dead state, somehow teleported out of the sand coffin beneath Tsunade, though he said it was Hashirama's wood clone only he could see through.
Tazzilla88
Active member
Iirc wasn't the Zetsu made from the Gedo Mazo. Rather than directly from the Mokuton no jutsu?
It occurs to me that something similar to what happened to Muu happened with Muu, happened with Madara. Also in what other way would he be forced into using his Mokuton clone? Than to be put in a situation where his hand was forced. While the clone was being sealed he would have time to allow his body to regenerate.
My Theory anyway. Regardless, it doesn't make much difference as the clone should have the same density, if it's purpose was to fool the gokage.
TheEvilOne
Active member
Hyorougan? Geez, seems like people forget Part 1 Naruto existed.
Now let me recap it for you.
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Tsunade states she has quit being a doctor. And because she was wondering, gambling, it is only logical to deduce she has retired from the shinobi system, thing that was made clear within the next chapters.
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Furthermore, she wasn't sleeping for 6 days as you can see.
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Here you have Jiraiya talking about her fallen state.
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Kabuto taking Hyorougan. I think you remember now, don't you?
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A medical pill that enhances one's abilities.
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And to remember you, once again, how it was stated that she was out of battle for many years, hence, rusty state.
Any more proof you want?
OH! And forgot to add the fact that Kabuto, at that time, made use of Tsunade's fear for blood... he, himself said that it's bad to go against one of the three ninjas.
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MisterEggPirate88
Member
For me you cant divide between part 1 and 2, These are only the parts in the Anime. The powerscale appeared somewhere after Itachi vs Sasuke beginning with hyping Madara,Hashirama and the Mangekyo... So in the end, Hidan is affected by this powerscaling as well. (This is NO Argument)
EliteKakashi
Active member
Giving someone who has the feats to evade Hidan full knowledge is pretty much a game over.
Hidan doesn't have Kakuzu here to save his ass or create diversions, and it's not like
Hidan isn't much to worry about for most high level ninja when you given them knowledge.
God forbid Tsunade bring out Katsuyu in this match. That'd probably classify as rape, especially if katsuyu breaks up in to how many ever thousands of smaller bodies and just spits acid at him.
Hidan doesn't have Kakuzu here to save his ass or create diversions, and it's not like
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, and Tsunade is trained
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. Hidan isn't much to worry about for most high level ninja when you given them knowledge.
God forbid Tsunade bring out Katsuyu in this match. That'd probably classify as rape, especially if katsuyu breaks up in to how many ever thousands of smaller bodies and just spits acid at him.
Half-Decent..A Sharingan User's Reaction speed is extraordinary not "half decent", So that's wrong, also hidan was supposed to be the diversions for Kakuzu's attacks not the other way around
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U_U And Is there proof she can spit acid when split into thousands of bodies? Even if she can the amount she would be able to spit would do absolutely nothing to Hidan