Tsunade is an embarassment to the Kage title
- Thread starter Denzel Washington
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KingHashirama
Active member
You said she had help from 4 kage level allies. who where they?
Where were they when they were picking the hokage after Hiruzen's death? You mean Jiraiya who was out traveling? Kakashi wasn't even Kage worthy in part 1..
And what i find more funny is the fact, people ignore Danzo, when judging Tsunade's reign. What did Minato and Hiruzen do about Danzo? yet apparently Minato is one of the best hokage?
Lets talk about all the hokage and who was the most worthy shinobi:
- Hashirama senju - started the current system and ended decades/centuries of warfar.
- Tobirama senju - implement the system.
- Tsunade - creates a medical ninjutsu system, used throughout the entire world. Most respected Kage from the current ones, and most known and respected from the Sanin. Saved more lives than any other Hokage (even Hashirama.)
^^^^^^ Top 3 Hokage.
Where were they when they were picking the hokage after Hiruzen's death? You mean Jiraiya who was out traveling? Kakashi wasn't even Kage worthy in part 1..
And what i find more funny is the fact, people ignore Danzo, when judging Tsunade's reign. What did Minato and Hiruzen do about Danzo? yet apparently Minato is one of the best hokage?
Lets talk about all the hokage and who was the most worthy shinobi:
- Hashirama senju - started the current system and ended decades/centuries of warfar.
- Tobirama senju - implement the system.
- Tsunade - creates a medical ninjutsu system, used throughout the entire world. Most respected Kage from the current ones, and most known and respected from the Sanin. Saved more lives than any other Hokage (even Hashirama.)
^^^^^^ Top 3 Hokage.
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AllHailKurama
Active member
Your last statement shows you have zero credibility, as at that point Naruto was genin in title only, he was Kage level once he mastered Sage jutsu.
So here on the base, Tsunade seems to catch a lot of unjust flak. I notice that people tend to call her weak as well as the worst Hokage. That’s pretty unfair if you ask me. She may not be the strongest of the Hokage, but by no means is she weak. She didn’t get the title of “Legendary Sannin” being weak. And to be honest, you could definitely make the case that she is the best of the Hokage, which I’m going to try to do.
To start off, Hashirama:
Next up, Tobirama:Ok. Hashirama is widely regarded as the greatest Shinobi to ever live (soon to play second fiddle to Naruto at the conclusion of the war lol) as well of the best Hokage that there ever was. His dream was to achieve peace with all the nations, but he died before that could happen (by the way, does anyone actually know how he died? Was it stated?). To do this, he decided to pawn off the Tailed Beasts like they were commodities. As we know, this caused many problems, as the nations struggled for power and used the Beasts as instruments of war. This also led to the creation of the Jinchuriki system, which caused much unnecessary pain for others. Also he failed to deal with Madara in the proper way, leading to the current events.
Overall he was a good Hokage, despite the above, because he truly cared for the people of his Nation, as well of the people of the other Nations, and he tried to make peace with great effort.
Hiruzen:Not much is really known about Tobirama’s reign over the leaf, so with him it is hard to judge. We know that Tobirama had two students: Hiruzen and Danzo. We know he was a genius and created all kinds of ninjutsu. We know that the village was safe under his reign. We know that the Uchiha mistrust of the leaf started with him. We know that he died like a champ.
On Danzo and Hiruzen: I can’t hold how they turned out against him. At the end of the day, people make their own choices, and Danzo and Hiruzen both made many stupid decisions. Sure, being a teacher has an impact on those decisions, but he can’t make decisions for them. Plus many of their stupid decisions happened after he dies, so it’s not like he could advise them to take different actions.
The ninjutsu is something I can hold against him, however. He created two of the most famous ninjutsu in history, one of which is the cause of much hatred and many problems, including the war. That is the Reanimation ninjutsu. He may have been a genius, but this was a pretty stupid move. Like I said, he was a genius. Could he not foresee the damage that could be done if the Reanimation jutsu fell into the wrong hands (que Orochimaru, Kabuto, Obito, and Madara). The Reanimation out the Leaf in serious danger during the Orochimaru invasion, and look at all the damage that was caused during the Fourth Great Ninja War. Hell, Madara Uchiha is only alive and the Juubi Jin because he was reanimated.
The Uchiha incident is traceable to Tobirama as well. He put the Uchiha in charge of the Leaf police force, but unfortunately (due to the Uchiha being too rough with the citizenry) people came to distrust the Uchiha, causing the discrimination against them. Tobirama did not hate the Uchiha, as he stated himself. In fact, his most trusted advisor/friend/subordinate was Kagami Uchiha, the father of Shisui Uchiha. Rather, he admitted the Uchiha were a group to be wary of, a sentiment shared by people like Kagami and Shisui, as well as Itachi later on. And many others as well. He wasn’t discriminating toward the Uchiha, he state that he put them in charge of the police force because he wanted to give them something that they were good at, but he definitely could have handled the situation better to avoid problems in the future.
Lastly he died like a baller, protecting the “king” as Shikimaru would call it (the future generations of the Leaf). Props to him.
Minato:It’s not even debatable. Hiruzen is definitely the worst Hokage there was. He had the ability to stop Danzo, but he let Danzo run free. Earlier I excused Tobirama’s role as Danzo’s teacher due to him being dead, and Danzo making his own choices. However, Hiruzen was an enabler. He allowed Danzo to do shady stuff, which resulted in the Uchiha massacre, while Hiruzen seemingly did nothing to prevent it. Instead he stood by and let Itachi shoulder that burden. Danzo betrayed the Leaf many times, and yet Hiruzen did NOTHING. There is a saying that goes as follows: “All it takes for evil to triumph in this world is for a good man to do nothing”. Perfect description of Hiruzen and his days as Hokage.
I won’t comment on his dealings with Orochimaru (ok, I will, but not a lot), I didn’t hold Danzo over Tobirama’s head, so to be fair I will apply the same to Hiruzen. Although you could make a significant case here because, unlike Tobirama, Hiruzen was still alive during Orochimaru’s descent to evil. Much of what Danzo did occurred after Tobirama died. Not to mention that he know Orochimaru was up to his experiments, and he failed to act in a timely manner. This resulted in his perfection of the Reanimation, and this the extent that Kabuto was able to control it, thus giving Madara his damn near unbeatable Reanimation form (although this is only indirectly his fault, so I don’t count that). So you could say that Hiruzen failed hard here. Real hard.
Another thing that I feel should be pointed out. Naruto Uzumaki. What the hell was up with that? Minato and Kushina died to protect Naruto, and the only thing you did was give him his last name and put the boy up in an apartment alone, and let him enter the ninja academy? Did he miss the part where Naruto was pretty much tortured psychologically by the villagers? And he did nothing to stop that? Some leader.
However, he also died to protect the leaf, and died like a champ. So credit goes to him. Still though, he is definitely at the cellar of the Hokage list.
Tsunade:We don’t really know much about Minato’s reign, mainly due to the fact that he died very early in his term (which was unnecessary). Just like I did(n’t) with Tobirama and Hiruzen, I’m not gonna hold his teaching days over his head, since he died while Obito was presumed to be dead. Thus he could not act like a teacher and advise and help Obito out of the darkness he was in, however his failures as a teacher played a major influence in the rise of the Fourth Great Ninja War.
Minato seemed to be a model Hokage, and no doubt would have found a different way to handle the Uchiha incident, which he said himself during the conversation with Sasuke.
We know, however that he was a great ninja, a true genius as stated by Jiraiya. He practically took the FTG to a new level, and created the Rasengan in the image of the Tailed beast Bomb. He was a hero of war.
However, he also died to protect the village, while fighting a fight on two fronts (vs Obito and vs Kurama). I’d say he did pretty well.
In conclusion:Tsunade is a great hokage. She damn sure didn’t take shit from anybody, as the elders and Shizune found out well enough. Not only that, but she is the greatest medical ninja to have ever lived. She created the system of having a medical ninja in every squad. She also exercised a tremendous amount of belief in Naruto and company (mostly Naruto and Shikimaru), letting them grow. Needless to say this has had great impact on the current situation. Hell, she even called the Elders on their bullshit when it came to Naruto during the Pain invasion.
People like to say that she is weak and that if there was another Hokage present during the Pain invasion, then they would have saved the day by kicking Pains ass. Realistically, the only two Hokage that would have had a more than reasonable chance to beat Pain are Minato and Hashirama. Tobirama less so, but he would have been a maybe.
However, if there had been any other Hokage, many more people would have died. People forget that after Pains initial assault, she expended her Byakugou seal and put all of her chakra into having Katsuyu protect AND heal the ENTIRE VILLAGE. What other Hokage would have done so? None. That is not debatable.
Hashirama’s grand dream what the unification of all the Ninja villages. He failed to do so. Tsunade is one of the 5 Kage that helped to unite the villages. In this sense you could say that she surpassed even her grandfather, the dude widely heralded as the greatest of the Hokage.
Food for thought:Tsunade is not the strongest of the Hokage (I’m not entirely sure that she is the weakest though), but strength isn’t the only standard that a Hokage is judged by. Politically, Tsunade is the best of the Hokage.
1) Tsunade/Hashirama
2) Tsunade/Hashirama
3) Minato
4 )Tobirama
5) Hiruzen
In relation to Naruto (the Character), I find it interesting that Tsunade is the only Hokage that never caused Naruto pain. Hashirama created the Jinchuriki system, which caused Naruto considerable pain. Tobirama is the person from which the Uchiha incident stems its roots. Hiruzen stood by and let Naruto suffer at the hands of the villagers. He did absolutely nothing while Naruto suffered. Minato died unnecessarily, which Kushina admitted, and left Naruto alone.
Honestly, I’m slightly disappointed that Naruto didn’t address that when he met the first 4 Hokage during the war. But that’s neither here nor there lol
Honord Sage
Active member
The only one that could ever face Pain is Naruto Uzumaki all others including previous Kages need not apply.
dark legion
Active member
legally he was a genin .. in fact , even now in this current condition he remains a genin . at that time , even tsunade had Senjutsu .. why she didn't fight pein with it ? / illuminate me please , why naruto could fight Pein , while Tsuande couldn't ?!if they both were kage level ? (just don't excuse with healing the others with katsuy)
1. tobirama wasn't a racist, he even explains his reasons about his actions (mangaphax .. no need for discus) :
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2. hiruzen created Team 7 .. the team that will save your fav my dear ! if it wasn't for him , your favs would remain in I.T forever . kaguya would rule and ByeBye Narutoverse !
most important : what did Tsunade at her era? she failed against madara , against Pein, against Itachi(her mission to chase itachi) , against Danzo and his foundation , against Orochimaru /
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dat logic
Curently dat genin solos everyone :|
1.Dats why he was going sacrifice someone randomly to Q madara and gave birth to ideology like Danzo and Konoha elders
2.i laughed at troll attempt :|
dark legion
Active member
lol .. tsunade kage level- refused to fight pein , and asked for help from naruto ?! why ?
1. sacrificing someone doesn't make him racist .. check the literature about racism . and he didn't gave birth to ideology like danzo , he did it himself when hiruzen was elected hokage ( it wasn't tobirama's fault )
2. my last attempt is to make you laugh
END: Blazing .. remember your own posts :
- this includes your fav doesn't it :skorm::skorm:
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lmao everyone wants to take the piss out on her still? The story isn't about Tsunade regardless of status and the moment people realise her role in pushing naruto as a character and in the story.
You guys wouldn't look so retarded.
You guys wouldn't look so retarded.
Denzel Washington
Active member
Denzel Washington
Active member
KingHashirama
Active member
prime hiruzen = non-existent.
Prime Morgan Freeman trashes Denzel Washington.
Denzel Washington
Active member
Prime Hiruzen is more than existant, he has transcended existence.
We know that Prime Hiruzen is stronger than both Hashirama amd Tobirama. That is a confirmed truth by the author.
Darth Uchiha
Active member
Except the world had never faced threats like Pain, or Obito, and the last time it dealt with Madara, not only did he not have IT in mind, he had Hashirama to deal with, and was nowhere near as powerful as he'd become.
i was talking about his ideology which is weaklol .. tsunade kage level- refused to fight pein , and asked for help from naruto ?! why ?
1. sacrificing someone doesn't make him racist .. check the literature about racism . and he didn't gave birth to ideology like danzo , he did it himself when hiruzen was elected hokage ( it wasn't tobirama's fault )
2. my last attempt is to make you laugh
Suigetsu is my fav :|
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dark legion
Active member
;kk ... I got you .
1. admitting the inferiority of your fav upon naruto !
2. lying ,.. but even if not , naruto solo's your fav ! :|
Hiruzen got owned by Pt. 1 Naruto.
Hiruzen would've died from a Kunai if Orochimaru was serious.
Now tell me who's the bigger embarassment to the Kage title
Hiruzen would've died from a Kunai if Orochimaru was serious.
Now tell me who's the bigger embarassment to the Kage title
Lmao, those words were said by Iruka who didn't even know the powers of Hashirama/Tobirama/Minato. Prime Hiruzen = Fan Fiction, fodder. Deal with it
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She is the only decent kage, not all is power and if you put a group of people in line somebody has got to be the weakest. That does not being weak. You can put Einstein, Hawking and Newton on a line and deduce one of them as the least intellect among 3 that does not mean the third guy of them is a dumbass.