Edo Madara was toying with the Gokage and he made use of his Edo Tensei body. How about how he single-handedly took on the whole 4th division with ease. No, he didn't compare Tsunade's speed to Ay's. He simply said she's slower than the Raikage but, she's stronger than him. She is fairly slow with hand speed and foot speed, he could easily put her under a genjutsu and attack. She hasn't even been shown to always start with byakugou so, simply catching her off guard before it's used puts Madara in favor. She isn't jumping over Gouka Mekkyaku, it's just not happening. She can't tank them unless she is using byakugou which she hasn't alway been shown to use at the start of her fights. She can't use creation rebirth then byakugou because she simply won't have enough chakra to do so. Even is she does she won't be using byakugou for long. Catching her off guard is a lot easier than Ay & Tsunade catching Madara off guard.
No, Ay's speed is nothing before Madara's 3T. No matter how fast the opponent is the sharingan can read their movements because of their muscles. Madara has already been shown able to react to Ay's speed and even made a joke about it. Even if Ay does land a hit on him he won't kill him seeing as Madara already tanked a hit from him like it was nothing. Ay got distracted by Tsunade because of her acting recklessly. Ay didn't even avoid eye contact with Sasuke or Madara so, putting him under a genjutsu isn't a problem. Also when Ay was placed under the genjutsu he wasn't able to release himself from it; Onoki had to.
And still Madara's Gunbai plays a HUGE factor in this fight. It tanked a mini-bijuudama from a BM Naruto clone and can create barriers. Combining that with his taijutsu is deadly.
Keep in mind that Edo Madara was toying with the Gokage. Nah neither of those chumps can solo my boy Madara.
Third Bold. Because she's looked an Uchiha in the eyes?
Fourth Bold. Um, Byakugou is obviously an advancement over Creation Rebirth. She's only fought twice in the entire manga and one of those times was in part 1. We can't even say she had byakugou at that time. But we know that as long as we're aware that she's had it, and as long as Madara Uchiha has been her opponent she has started with Byakugou. Not that she would need it against a three tomoe Madara
Fifth Bold ok
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Sixth bold. if you say so
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Finally I'd be quite curious as to how 3-Tomoe Madara would avoid Tsunade in her
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. With that kind of a range she doesn't need to be faster than he is.
I don't particularly feel the need to make a full argument here, as I've clearly laid them out before. Perhaps not against 3-tomoe Madara, but they are clearly there. If I find your too lazy to clink the link and read, I'll probably quote them directly here.
Third Bold. Because she's looked an Uchiha in the eyes?
Fourth Bold. Um, Byakugou is obviously an advancement over Creation Rebirth. She's only fought twice in the entire manga and one of those times was in part 1. We can't even say she had byakugou at that time. But we know that as long as we're aware that she's had it, and as long as Madara Uchiha has been her opponent she has started with Byakugou. Not that she would need it against a three tomoe Madara
Fifth Bold ok
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Sixth bold. if you say so
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Finally I'd be quite curious as to how 3-Tomoe Madara would avoid Tsunade in her
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. With that kind of a range she doesn't need to be faster than he is.
I don't particularly feel the need to make a full argument here, as I've clearly laid them out before. Perhaps not against 3-tomoe Madara, but they are clearly there. If I find your too lazy to clink the link and read, I'll probably quote them directly here.
- Yeah i'm tired. Cba to look through all my mistakes like I usually do.
- First thread: Her speed is average i'll give you that but, not close to V1 Ay which Sasuke, while using 3T, was able to react to.
- Second thread: Are you sure she can jump over it? [
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- While fighting Madara she didn't even attempt to avoid eye contact.
- No, she didn't start out with it even against Edo Madara. Also take note how she said "Forbidden" which is pretty much self explanatory.
- Answer is in "first thread".
- 14 Chapters later.
- She would need to make direct contact with him in order to kill him.
Tsunade CAN jump over the katon. Check the sannin fight again. When Jiraiya fired his huge katon with Gamabunta Tsunade was nowehere to be seen, so she was even higher than the flames. And a lot higher than the size of Katsuyu and Gamabunta, while using the huge sword.
It sounds like a compliment to me if you're even compared to the fastest character in the series. Tsunade is not slow at all, I don't know how people got that impression. Tsunade even moved quite a distance before Mei could make some handseals.
And of course Tsunade would fight with byaugo on, I mean, she knows the enemy is Madara, and medical ninja are forbidden from fighting if they can't use byakugo no jutsu. Tsunade's own rules.
Tsunade's taijutsu exceeds Madara's. I'm not sure about A, but his speed is enough to make Madara's attacks quite futile.
Also Tsunade's and A's chakra reserves are huge. There is no way Madara can keep fighting longer than those two could.
Madara's gunbai isn't even that useful here. If he tried to protect himself with it from Tsunade she can just grab it. And here is no way he can battle against those two in strength.
Madara would never have let the gokage even think that they've taken him on on purpose. I mean, he is way too proud. Tsunade killed Madara once. Manga fact.
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- Madara blatantly said she's slower than him. She isn't close to V1, let alone V2 in speed.
- She won't fight with byakugou right away; she only uses it when it's needed. Tsunade herself even said that it's a forbidden technique.
- No, Tsunade's taijutsu is fodder compared to Madara's.
- Madara fought against Hashirama for a whole day.
- Actually his Gunbai is quite useful considering it can create barriers and has amazing durability feats. She can grab it from him but, won't even be able to use it to the level he can. Nor would it be a problem getting it back from her.
- He didn't take them seriously at all. [
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- She didn't kill him once. You do realize that it was a clone? That's like saying Edo Madara fodderizes Edo Hashirama because he beat his clone while sitting down.
Tsunade's taijutsu does not exceed Madara's. It's foolish to even believe such a thing.
- Yeah i'm tired. Cba to look through all my mistakes like I usually do.
- First thread: Her speed is average i'll give you that but, not close to V1 Ay which Sasuke, while using 3T, was able to react to.
- Second thread: Are you sure she can jump over it? [
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- While fighting Madara she didn't even attempt to avoid eye contact.
- No, she didn't start out with it even against Edo Madara. Also take note how she said "Forbidden" which is pretty much self explanatory.
- Answer is in "first thread".
- 14 Chapters later.
- She would need to make direct contact with him in order to kill him.
- You really think she can? [
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- Madara blatantly said she's slower than him. She isn't close to V1, let alone V2 in speed.
- She won't fight with byakugou right away; she only uses it when it's needed. Tsunade herself even said that it's a forbidden technique.
- No, Tsunade's taijutsu is fodder compared to Madara's.
- Madara fought against Hashirama for a whole day.
- Actually his Gunbai is quite useful considering it can create barriers and has amazing durability feats. She can grab it from him but, won't even be able to use it to the level he can. Nor would it be a problem getting it back from her.
- He didn't take them seriously at all. [
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- She didn't kill him once. You do realize that it was a clone? That's like saying Edo Madara fodderizes Edo Hashirama because he beat his clone while sitting down.
Tsunade's taijutsu does not exceed Madara's. It's foolish to even believe such a thing.
Anime is not canon. And Tsunade does have better taijutsu.
It wasn't a clone. Check what a mokuton bunshin looks like when destroyed. Madara did the clone feint after Tsunade's hit. So Tsunade did kill Madara once.
That katon is only a little bigger than Jiraiya's, or the same size.
Tsunade kept healing and giving chakra to the other kages before she joined the fight herself.
It was really a compliment for her. : D A is super fast. And Tsunade is way faster than base A for example. And according to Madara COMPARABLE to Onoki boosted raiton armored A. Face the facts.
it's obvious kage's team win although wood clones could be the problem...! you know 10 madaras even if they are 3 tomoes can rape Tsunade but with raikage's speed they can win mid to high diff...!
it's obvious kage's team win although wood clones could be the problem...! you know 10 madaras even if they are 3 tomoes can rape Tsunade but with raikage's speed they can win mid to high diff...!
He doesn't have any clones. He doesn't possess Hashirama's abilities in his normal state.
They both solo. It was already proven.
Tsunade didn't have too much trouble with the five susanoo'd Madara's. Unlike Gaara, A and Mei.
Anime is not canon. And Tsunade does have better taijutsu.
It wasn't a clone. Check what a mokuton bunshin looks like when destroyed. Madara did the clone feint after Tsunade's hit. So Tsunade did kill Madara once.
That katon is only a little bigger than Jiraiya's, or the same size.
Tsunade kept healing and giving chakra to the other kages before she joined the fight herself.
It was really a compliment for her. : D A is super fast. And Tsunade is way faster than base A for example. And according to Madara COMPARABLE to Onoki boosted raiton armored A. Face the facts.
- Madara defeated some random fodders, what an impressive feat
- It was Bijuu sized. Show me a scan where alive Madara ( w/o Hashirama's cells ) can do a Katon like that
- The battle basically begun when Tsunade went serious. Healing and replenishing three Kage level shinobi takes a lot of chakra.
- Ay and Tsunade arrived at the same time to Bee and Naruto. They scared the shit out of them, this means they were so fast that Naruto couldn't sense them. Ay used his base speed, so Tsunade's base speed = Ay's.
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- Madara defeated some random fodders, what an impressive feat
- It was Bijuu sized. Show me a scan where alive Madara ( w/o Hashirama's cells ) can do a Katon like that
- The battle basically begun when Tsunade went serious. Healing and replenishing three Kage level shinobi takes a lot of chakra.
- Ay and Tsunade arrived at the same time to Bee and Naruto. They scared the shit out of them, this means they were so fast that Naruto couldn't sense them. Ay used his base speed, so Tsunade's base speed = Ay's.
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- Yeah i'm tired. Cba to look through all my mistakes like I usually do.
- First thread: Her speed is average i'll give you that but, not close to V1 Ay which Sasuke, while using 3T, was able to react to.
- Second thread: Are you sure she can jump over it? [
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- While fighting Madara she didn't even attempt to avoid eye contact.
- No, she didn't start out with it even against Edo Madara. Also take note how she said "Forbidden" which is pretty much self explanatory.
- Answer is in "first thread".
- 14 Chapters later.
- She would need to make direct contact with him in order to kill him.
2.Her speed feats from part 2 suggest better than average. "First Thread" Addresses that rather thoroughly actually.
3.Considering Gamabunta is the same size as the A bijuu
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And the flames made him seem small in comparison and she jumped so high with Gamabunta's Tanto pre-power-scaling that she can't even be seen on the page with Gamabunta and Katsuyu I think it's fair to say she'd be able to jump high enough to avoid his Katon.
4. Did she look definitively look him in the eye at any point? No. Then you're argument isn't relevant
5. If her battle is with Madara Uchiha I can see her using Byakugou, but 3 tomoe Madara probably wouldn't push her to the point in which she'd need to use it.
6. It really isn't there's nothing that you just said that suggests he can evade an area that is 210 Meters in diameter or 105 meters in each direction.
7. Same fight, and she healed and refilled three kage level shinobi's chakras between usages.
8. Nothing suggests that's he's tougher than juubi minis which died from the impact of that blow to the ground.
- Ay and Tsunade arrived at the same time to Bee and Naruto. They scared the shit out of them, this means they were so fast that Naruto couldn't sense them. Ay used his base speed, so Tsunade's base speed = Ay's.
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First of all, Naruto did not sense them because in KM he cannont sense like he can in SM, He can only sense Bad intent. Tsunade nor Raikage were heading towards them two with intent to kill. Nothing to do with speed.
Also as for your speed argument, There are many ways for tsaunde to arrive at the same time as A, Either he slowed down to her speed, or she hitched a ride like onoki.
Tsunades databook score is 3.5, Yet you expect kishi to raise her speed a full 1/1.5 ? (depending on what you think Base a scores in speed). She is past her prime she isn't getting any faster.
A's base speed was stated to be fast by zetsu, I doubt A's base speed in slower than Sasuke/Neji/Kakashi and close to Base Naruto/Sakura's.
2.Her speed feats from part 2 suggest better than average. "First Thread" Addresses that rather thoroughly actually.
3.Considering Gamabunta is the same size as the A bijuu
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And the flames made him seem small in comparison and she jumped so high with Gamabunta's Tanto pre-power-scaling that she can't even be seen on the page with Gamabunta and Katsuyu I think it's fair to say she'd be able to jump high enough to avoid his Katon.
4. Did she look definitively look him in the eye at any point? No. Then you're argument isn't relevant
5. If her battle is with Madara Uchiha I can see her using Byakugou, but 3 tomoe Madara probably wouldn't push her to the point in which she'd need to use it.
6. It really isn't there's nothing that you just said that suggests he can evade an area that is 210 Meters in diameter or 105 meters in each direction.
7. Same fight, and she healed and refilled three kage level shinobi's chakras between usages.
8. Nothing suggests that's he's tougher than juubi minis which died from the impact of that blow to the ground.
- Before I say anything let me poinit this out Gamabunta = Katsuyu = Gamakichi in height. [
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] [
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] Now take a look at the Juubi clones and the size of the Juubi, pinned down, compared to Katsuyu. [
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] Jiraiya's katon is roughly 3 or 4, maybe even 5, times the size of Gamabunta. [
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] The Juubi, pinned down, is roughly about 5 times the size of Gamakichi from this POV. [
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] That being said pinned down Juubi >= Jiraiya and Gamabunta's katon. Not all Bijuus are the same size btw. [50% Kurama >= Hachibi] Hachibi is roughly about the same size of the Juubi's hand, he may even be a bit bigger. [
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] [
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] Madara's katon was roughly about 1.5-2.5 times bigger than Jiraiya's.
- She doesn't have to be face to face with him. As long as there is eye contact sharingan genjutsu can be used.
- Yeah she actually did. [
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- Making it easier for Madara to catch her off guard and roast her with katon.
- I'd like an actual manga scan, not a thread theorizing that she can, of her doing so.
- She can't just use creation rebirth and then follow up with byakugou less than 5 minutes later.
- Juubi clones were dying after a single hit. [
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] Madara brushed off a hit from Ay and Tsunade like it was nothing. [
- Madara defeated some random fodders, what an impressive feat
- It was Bijuu sized. Show me a scan where alive Madara ( w/o Hashirama's cells ) can do a Katon like that
- The battle basically begun when Tsunade went serious. Healing and replenishing three Kage level shinobi takes a lot of chakra.
- Ay and Tsunade arrived at the same time to Bee and Naruto. They scared the shit out of them, this means they were so fast that Naruto couldn't sense them. Ay used his base speed, so Tsunade's base speed = Ay's.
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- Madara took on a whole division of the SA with taijutsu, kenjutsu, and 1 or 2 katons. Pretty impressive if you ask me.
- There's only one scan of alive Madara ever using katon. [
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] Will it be the exact same size of this one? [
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] Probably not but, it will be > Jiraiya's katon.
- Madara mocked all of the Gokage in hopes to change the tide of the battle and that is exactly what Tsunade did. The battle didn't "basically begin" at that point.
- Read Exaar's post.
a) Like Obito, he is capable of controlling a tailed beast with his mere 3T form Sharingan. It all depends. If Naruto isn't the host of the kyuubi, then Madara's already one lowest diff possible. But if Naruto is the host, the Kages win High diff, although i suspect Tsunade will have an "unfortunate" accident.
a) Like Obito, he is capable of controlling a tailed beast with his mere 3T form Sharingan. It all depends. If Naruto isn't the host of the kyuubi, then Madara's already one lowest diff possible. But if Naruto is the host, the Kages win High diff, although i suspect Tsunade will have an "unfortunate" accident.
