True Villians.

[CurseSealofEarth]

How many people on the base are tired of having all of these sympathetic villains? If you don't know what that is, it's a villain you feel sympathy for.

To be honest, I'm tired of them. This is not a recent phenomenon in media, as it has shown in about a million other shows, movies, and villains. You have these villains who, as the story progresses, you learn more about their backstory and begin to not see them as the antagonist but as a "down and out guy who just is confused about what he needs to do." That begins to become incredibly boring after only a few times of seeing it.

We've got our own sympathetic villain wanting to fix what they believe is a broken world. This is about every other villain in this manga though. Obito and Madara both are the prime examples of this. Both have a sob story about why they're evil to make it seem like they're actually this warrior fighting against an unjust system. Sasuke is another contributor of this.

But you know who the best villains are? The psychotic ones. The ones who did have bad things happen, but they're just kind of like "Eh, **** it, this looks like fun." The Joker and Vaas come to mind, and Oro even fits in this category. Those are the guys that say "Bad things happen, and I'm going to make it worse." Not "Bad things happen, and everyone is going to pay for it! I was hurt! PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!!"

These are my thoughts, what are yours?

 

[Punk Hazard]

I disagree. I like what you call sympathetic villains because it shows that even the most normal of people can become monsters if broken enough. That's way more entertaining and interesting than "I'll be evil for the f**k of it." It's better writing too.

 

[Fair Warning]

I want a villain who is true evil, and dies horrible death. (like itachis)

But Naruto is bascially Jesus, he cannot preach Hate to get rid of Hate.

 

[Renpatsu Dei]

I don't know it depends on the situation. Back before the flashback, I didn't like Madara because I thight he was one-dimensional and cliched, he was just evil for the sake of it. If a villain with a sob story is well written like Shinobu Sensui or has a concept behind them like Obito then i love it. But nothing really beats a psychotic who just loves chaos, but I guess that depends on how well they are portrayed too.

 

[CurseSealofEarth]

I disagree. I like what you call sympathetic villains because it shows that even the most normal of people can become monsters if broken enough. That's way more entertaining and interesting than "I'll be evil for the f**k of it." It's better writing too.

I feel like at one point it was good writing, but it's almost lazy writing now. It's an attempt to get someone to like their villain more in my eyes, but I just like truly evil villains.

I want a villain who is true evil, and dies horrible death. (like itachis)

But Naruto is bascially Jesus, he cannot preach Hate to get rid of Hate.

Jesus with a Demon in him = Naruto.

I don't know it depends on the situation. Back before the flashback, I didn't like Madara because I thight he was one-dimensional and cliched, he was just evil for the sake of it. If a villain with a sob story is well written like Shinobu Sensui or has a concept behind them like Obito then i love it. But nothing really beats a psychotic who just loves chaos, but I guess that depends on how well they are portrayed too.

See, maybe the chaotic evil villain is the best kind. Insanity is exciting to me. It shows something about my personality.

 

[JIRAIYA perv]

bro ................ i couldn't agree more.

the moment you mentioned orochimaru (the only true villain in this series), the joker and vass (one of the best villains i have ever seen in a video game), you got me on your side.

 

[Jack Spicer]

I like variety. Batman has the best variety because you have sympathy villains (Freeze/Two-Face), psychotics (Joker/Scarecrow/Harley/Zazz), mobsters (Black Mask/Penguin), Assassins (Deadshot/Deathstroke/Firefly), villains who have a specific goal, but who is going to it an evil way (Ra's/Ivy/Red Hood), revenge (Hush), and then there's Catwoman, a thief. She has beliefsis sort of an anti hero, but is a villain.

Guys like Two-Face dip into mobster and sympathy while Deathstroke and Catwoman are very interesting in personality and why they do what they do, but are still villains, especially Deathstroke. I'm not saying it's all black and white. I love variety.

Naruto has an issue by making too many sympathetic villains. I think they ruined Pain by making him Nagato. They should've just kept Pain as Pain. Madara should've just been a bad guy. Not everyone needs to have a sympathetic backstory.

 

[CurseSealofEarth]

I like variety. Batman has the best variety because you have sympathy villains (Freeze/Two-Face), psychotics (Joker/Scarecrow/Harley/Zazz), mobsters (Black Mask/Penguin), Assassins (Deadshot/Deathstroke/Firefly), villains who have a specific goal, but who is going to it an evil way (Ra's/Ivy/Red Hood), revenge (Hush), and then there's Catwoman, a thief. She has beliefs and is sort of an anti hero, but is a villain.

Guys like Two-Face dip into mobster and sympathy, so I'm not saying it's all black and white. I love variety.

Naruto has an issue by making too many sympathetic villains. I think they ruined Pain by making him Nagato. They should've just kept Pain as Pain. Madara should've just been a bad guy. Not everyone needs to have a sympathetic backstory.

That's the point I really wanted to make! You summarized what I couldn't. Thank you.

Yes the variety between villains works great if you actually have variety.

The advantage that Batman has on that though is not all of his villains appear in an arc of their own like Naruto's dies. Naruto's villains appear in a more linear fashion as opposed to Batman who has "issues" instead of arcs.

Still good comparison.

 

[EnDash]

those sympathetic villians are the reason i love naruto so much, it's more human and the emotions are more stronger. the best villian for me is the one that you can't say with a full heart you disagree with. i think obito and nagato are more right then naruto. it gives the show depth and consciousness.

still, there is a place for villians like the joker, they bring the other end of the spectrum to the table. those insane evil people that has no plan and no idea whats going to happen next, they just like to hurt other people with not explanation. it's another personality for the villian that can work very well if you write it well.

there's a batman movie called Batman: Under The Red Hood which includes two main villians, The Joker and The Red Hood. i won't spoil anything but i will say that the red hood is a VERY sympathetic character and the joker is... well the joker. that combination gives this movie an amazing edge.

what i'm saying is, i think you need both kinds of villians. those that "just want to see the world burn" and those that have their own belief on how to fix and help the world in a "fight the system" kind of way.

"I have spent the best years of my life giving people the lighter
pleasures, helping them have a good time, and all I get is abuse, the
existence of a hunted man."

That's Al Capone speaking. Yes, America's most notorious Public
Enemy - the most sinister gang leader who ever shot up Chicago.
Capone didn't condemn himself. He actually regarded himself as a public benefactor - an unappreciated and misunderstood public benefactor.

 

[Perception]

I understand what your saying and it does get old fast. Sometimes I like a villian with compassion, but not every single time. My favorite pure evil villian was Narku from Inyuasha. He loved to toy with peoples emotions and cause them to suffer.

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[itachixnamikaze]

My favorite villain is Johan Liebert ^^

 

[MonCheRena]

Disney villains, FTW.