So we have Itachi whose academy instructor thought he was the greatest genius he had ever seen since he had been working there and we have Minato's sensei, who confesses to loving him like a father, say something similar. Well, since it's obviously a tie in terms of bias, lets look at feats. Itachi was one-paneling legendary Kage status ninjas like Orochimaru at age 11. Minato was competing, nearly dead even with Orochimaru, for the status of Hokage at age 22. Meh, I guess Itachi wins for now.
It's canon that Tobi wouldn't even try this shit with Itachi around.
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And against Minato, Tobi didn't even have fodder Sharingan for Izanagi.
Everything u said is irelevant to itachis high intelligence. Itachi knew tobi's secrets, had shisui eye, and alot of stuff which makes things difficult for tobi. Tobi happy about itachi's absence is more of no more blackmailing with secrets, shisui eye and trumpcards.
What is this about minato dying against oro?:flaw: Minato also fought tobi with a sharingan capable of summoning the fox.
There is nothing in the manga which u can decide the right order of intelligence. It has to be preference and arguing this will make u sound sillly than u do now
I think the generally accepted person to be most intelligent is kabuto/Oro
So we have Itachi whose academy instructor thought he was the greatest genius he had ever seen since he had been working there and we have Minato's sensei, who confesses to loving him like a father, say something similar. Well, since it's obviously a tie in terms of bias, lets look at feats. Itachi was one-paneling legendary Kage status ninjas like Orochimaru at age 11. Minato was competing, nearly dead even with Orochimaru, for the status of Hokage at age 22. Meh, I guess Itachi wins for now.
It's canon that Tobi wouldn't even try this shit with Itachi around.
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And against Minato, Tobi didn't even have fodder Sharingan for Izanagi.
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Being strong enough to take on oro at age 11/13 doesn't prove shit, Naruto and sasuke were genin at age twelve but are now two of the strongest shinobi in the elemental nations, stronger then people like kakashi and Jiraiya who graduated the academy and age 5 and 6 respectively, and kakshi who became jounin at age 12, being strong early doesn't prove shit if the people who take longer still surpass you. Itachi is a person who had top class training at a young age with the strongest clan in the elemental nations support and training behind him while Minato was an orpan who only had the academy to train him until he became Jiraiya's student, your eleven year old theory doesn't prove shit.
Defeating oro with a genjutsu also doesn't proof shit about intelligence, he just used a genjutsu with his bloodline limit, that aint an intelligence feat.
And you quoting that tobi said that there was nothing to stop him from attacking konoha isn't an intelligence feat either, at best it could be a power feat, acknowledging that Itachi was too strong, but even then, we know that is oviously not the case because the reason tobi said that is because him and Itachi made a deal, the deal was that tobi would help him kill the uchiha clan and in exchange, tobi would leave sasuke and the village alone, that's all there is to it, you have not proven Itachi to be more intelligent then Minato at all, you haven't proven anything in fact.
Oh and Jiraiya is not the only one who acknowledged Minato as the greatest, A, the fourth raikage acknoledged Minato as a great shinobi that would never be surpassed when he spoke to naruto. And A has no genetic or emotional connection to Minato.
Bs everything youve said can be countered, loads of mistakes that its funny people agree with you. Then again those people do not read the manga or obvious minato fans U_U. I do hope you reply for me to dig into you, this is too easy
Its about time you replied. Im currently busy atm, this will be sweeter with manga pics therefore ill obliterate you later when im fully done what im doing.
Btw as a heads up, all youve said on intelligence is based on people who figured out tobi's technique. Thats about it. Youve havent taken anything else into consideration, like the fact that fu and torune also figured it out, team kakashi during itachi's chase also figured it out.
Btw the relationship between itachi and tobi was very secretive, both kept things from each other, but also neither have faced each other in combat, therefore how can you say because itachi didnt figure it out he isnt smart. What you are basically saying is that itachi is a palm reader, he can figure out technique without facing an opponent although he seems to know the weakness of edo tensei even though he hasnt faced it. For all you know he knows of tobi's weakness aswell, he hasnt said he doesnt know nor has he said he does. You also said naruto spoon fed him about ct, wrong again, he asked naruto how he survived and naruto told him that it was because of the fox, itachi had already figured out the weakness of ct already.
Also minato didnt create the death god. The 3rd said that was the technique he used on on the fox. You also seem to forget that, kushina taught minato loads of UZUMAKI SEALING TECHNIQUES therefore its common sense to say that this was one of them. To my knowledge its only ftg than he created.
This is just a taster. When i come back and im fully prepared, i intend on pulling you limb by limb
I don't think Tobi was too eager to lose an eye since he wasn't in a near-death situation.Minato just damaged him,he had no reason to lose an eye just to protect himself against a few bruises.
If you look back at when he fought Konan then you can see the severity of that situation far outweighs when Minato hit him with a rasengan.
Its about time you replied. Im currently busy atm, this will be sweeter with manga pics therefore ill obliterate you later when im fully done what im doing.
Btw as a heads up, all youve said on intelligence is based on people who figured out tobi's technique. Thats about it. Youve havent taken anything else into consideration, like the fact that fu and torune also figured it out, team kakashi during itachi's chase also figured it out.
Btw the relationship between itachi and tobi was very secretive, both kept things from each other, but also neither have faced each other in combat, therefore how can you say because itachi didnt figure it out he isnt smart. What you are basically saying is that itachi is a palm reader, he can figure out technique without facing an opponent although he seems to know the weakness of edo tensei even though he hasnt faced it. For all you know he knows of tobi's weakness aswell, he hasnt said he doesnt know nor has he said he does. You also said naruto spoon fed him about ct, wrong again, he asked naruto how he survived and naruto told him that it was because of the fox, itachi had already figured out the weakness of ct already.
Also minato didnt create the death god. The 3rd said that was the technique he used on on the fox. You also seem to forget that, kushina taught minato loads of UZUMAKI SEALING TECHNIQUES therefore its common sense to say that this was one of them. To my knowledge its only ftg than he created.
This is just a taster. When i come back and im fully prepared, i intend on pulling you limb by limb
Dude first of all I didn't base minato's intelligence solely on tobi, go take a look again, there are many things that I mentioned in my other post, you just seem to have ignored them for some reason.
And you say fu, torune, kakashi and his team figured it out? Dude what exactly did they figure out? That he was making himself intangible? Great, that's so difficult right, it aint like naruto's rasengan passing right through him was a dead give away, the point was that minato konan both figured out their own way of HOW to DEFEAT the jutsu, Torune and Fu thought they did with that lame plan of theirs but look what happened to them?
Kakashi and his squad had no idea what the hell was going on, all they were doing was brainstorming different theories and it took their collaboration and brain storming just to figure out WHAT the jutsu was, nevermind HOW to defeat it, even worse is that they took that long even though tobi was playing around with them and joking around, wonder what they would have done if tobi was bloodlusted like he was against minato and they had to deal with all the shit that was going on like minato had to at the same time.
And you say Itachi never saw Tobi's jutsu, come on dawg, he was Tobi's apprentice, how wouldn't he have seen the space time jutsu? They killed the uchiha clan together, how didn't he see it then, so far those are the only jutsu we have seen tobi use the most in battle, you really think Itachi never saw them when they trained? Or when they massacred the clan together? Seriously dawg how likely is that?
You're saying that Itachi and Tobi never faced each other in combat so he couldn't have figured it out yet they obviously trained together since Itachi was his apprentice, and he would have seen it when they killed the uchiha's, but the game breaker here is, when did Konan and Tobi face each other before that battle in ame? They didn't off course and konan still figured it out prior to the battle since she had already prepared her moves beforehand and her plans actually worked, unlike Itachi's amaterusu plan which just got transported away.
And you say that naruto didn't tell him how it works, go read again man, sure he had already explained the jutsu before Itachi asked how he survived, rememver that Itachi asked him how he survvived after naruto said it was imossible to escape, but naruto said it was impossible to escape after he explained what it is and what it does, naruto gave him intell dawg, accept it.
You say that Itachi might have known the secrete to defeating tobi's jutsu for all we know since he didn't say whether he did or not, but actions speak louder then words dawg, he implanted amaterusu into sasuke so that he can kill Tobi with it, if he knew how to defeat it, then he would have known that amaterusu wouldn't do the job! Plus, right after tobi got rid of the amaterusu with his space time migration, he said that Itachi could have killed him if he knew the secrete of his jutsus, isn't that enough proof for you mayn?
Dude the 3rd said that it was the fourth's jutsu, not really sure what it said in the manga but in the anime he even said it was a jutsu created by the fourth and said that the fourth had written it in the forbidden scroll of seals before he died, its his jutsu dawg, he made it, stop tryna play down the guy's achievements. Even if it wasn't created by him, which it was, what difference would it make, he still took the Uzumaki seal and barrier arts to a new level with FTG and he still created a human version of the Tailed Beast Bomb with Rasengan, so it would still be a mute point for you to disprove the reaper seal. Besides, don't you think if it was an uzumaki clan technique it would have been written in the forbidden scroll of seals that it was a clan technique and Hiruzen would have said so?
Dawg everything you just said is wrong mayn, and even if you had been right, which you're not, there would have still been too many feats that I mentioned in my other post that are irrefutable, Minato is top dawg in the intelligence department, try to disprove it is like trying to disprove that one plus one is equal to two, you can't do it no matter how smart you are, lol.
Oh Oh and how about the fact that Itachi, despite being tobi's apprentice and being so close to him couldn't even figure out the secrete to Tobi's space time techs (tobi's own words to sasuke) but Konan and Minato figured it out, and Minato only did it with just a mere glance of the jutsu while he had to take care of the kyubi, protect the village, protect his son and wife, all that pressure and he figured out how to beat tobi in those few seconds and Itachi was stupid enough to think that a mere amaterusu would be enough when he implanted the jutsu into sasuke, which didn't even injure tobi whereas both konan and Minato did.
Minato is by far the most intelligent guy in the manga, the people that say Itachi are fools, Itachi couldn't even foll tobi and zetsu, they saw straight through all his lies and deception like an open book, just because he outsmarted sasuke that doesn't make him the most intelligent person.
Itachi couldn't even figure out how to beat Tobi and Konan figured it out up to the most minute detail, even figuring out the time gaps and what he could and couldn't do at certain times with his techs, but Itachi, his apprentice couldn't figure out shit, because otherwise he would have, as Tobi said, been able to kill him and would have know amaterusu wouldn't do the job.
First off Konan and Minato had a direct confrontation with Tobi, where as Itachi was dead and Tobi still admitted he would have been dead if it wasn't for some secrets he kept from Itachi. Also lets not forget that Tobi was only trying to suck Minato into his S/T dimension the entire battle and as far as Konan went he wanted to find out were Nagato body is.
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That is a direct hit on Tobi, his secret wasn't anything to do with S/T, but Izanagi that saved him. That secret of his was hidden from everyone till Konan fight, his S/T is like Naruto Resengan and Sasuke Chidori, Tobi is always using it, so its not a secret. Unless your saying anyone with S/T can get directly hit with Amaterusu, but just teleport in order to escape it?
I don't get were your getting at with the second part? Itachi intention were known by the elders already (and it doesn't surprise me Tobi would have known), no one else knew of it. Zetsu was more than shocked to see how strong Itachi was and even more surprised when seeing him dead. Itachi intention were kept away from the village and everyone else, until Tobi told people, but than again as people like to say Tobi is a convincing lair, so anything is possible. As someone already said your clearly making your judgement off Tobi's encounters (In Itachi case). It's like watching a sport team and judging their entire performance for the season off one game.
Konan planned this for years, and still at the end fell to Tobi. Itachi problem was the same as Konan neither knew about Tobi knowing Izanagi. If Konan and Nagato were kept in the dark about that tech. than why would Tobi reveal this to Itachi? Itachi could have been Tobi's apprentice, but there relationship was more of a, "Keep your friends far away, and enemy closer."
I don't think Itachi and Tobi sat down had a cup of tea and explained each others tech. :roll eyes:
And you say that naruto didn't tell him how it works, go read again man, sure he had already explained the jutsu before Itachi asked how he survived, rememver that Itachi asked him how he survvived after naruto said it was imossible to escape, but naruto said it was impossible to escape after he explained what it is and what it does, naruto gave him intell dawg, accept it.
It's clear you need to re read. The only intel I see there is
Naurto: I survived it, because the Kyuubi went on a rampage before he got sucked in.
The Jutsu itself was self explanatory and thats what Naruto shared. Other than that all I hear is, "If were sucked in, were done." " The jutsu is a nasty one." " The pull is way too strong."
Everything u said is irelevant to itachis high intelligence. Itachi knew tobi's secrets, had shisui eye, and alot of stuff which makes things difficult for tobi. Tobi happy about itachi's absence is more of no more blackmailing with secrets, shisui eye and trumpcards.
What is this about minato dying against oro?:flaw: Minato also fought tobi with a sharingan capable of summoning the fox.
There is nothing in the manga which u can decide the right order of intelligence. It has to be preference and arguing this will make u sound sillly than u do now
I think the generally accepted person to be most intelligent is kabuto/Oro
He blackmailed Danzou not Tobi. As I said to the guy above I doubt Tobi and Itachi sat down having a cup of tea and explaining one another jutsu. There apprentice/relationship was more of a "Keep your friends far away, and enemy closer."
@ Topic
Minato and Itachi would be the best rounded intelligence.
Tobi/Madara, Oro/Kabuto would be the villain side intelligence.
Shikaku/Shika are just your geniuses in planning out specific battles :noc:
First of all, let me say im very disappointed in you. Ive read acouple of your posts in the past and at first it seems you read and have good knowledge of the manga, but in your resent posts it seems like you dont i overestimated your manga knwoledge
So taking the Uzumaki clan seal and barrier arts to a WHOLE NEW level by CREATING FTG, one of the greatest if not the greatest space time jutsu (It took out iwa on its own) is not an intelligence feat right, because you can be totally dum and create such a complex technique using one of the most rare and difficult ninja arts in the world right?
Firstly the uzumaki clan was known for their sealing techniques. If by barrier you mean sealing barrier then yes, if by barrier you mean minato's s/t barrier then know. That isnt what the uzumaki clan were know for. This has nothing to do with ftg which i admit he created. It is a formidabble technique but not the best s/t tech let alone the best technique.
And I'm sure that recreating the Tailed Beast Bomb at a level where humans can use it with their own chakra (rasengan) takes a really stupid person to do right, you totally wouldn't have to be clever to do that right?
Again, this is a intelligence feat, true but many ninja's have created or expanded on jutsu's. Example being oro/kabuto,itachi/sasuke/kakashi. All these ninja have either created or expanded on their jutsu. I will admit though that the idea of creating a 'human' Tbb in the form of a rasengan is very intelligent
Oh Oh and how about the fact that Itachi, despite being tobi's apprentice and being so close to him couldn't even figure out the secrete to Tobi's space time techs (tobi's own words to sasuke) but Konan and Minato figured it out, and Minato only did it with just a mere glance of the jutsu while he had to take care of the kyubi, protect the village, protect his son and wife, all that pressure and he figured out how to beat tobi in those few seconds and Itachi was stupid enough to think that a mere amaterusu would be enough when he implanted the jutsu into sasuke, which didn't even injure tobi whereas both konan and Minato did.
As i said their relationship was very secretive and neither gave anything away. To by knowledge they havent confronted each other for itachi to analyse him. Saying that i wouldnt be surprised if itachi knows of his weakness, because this isnt the first time he has figured out an opponents ninjutsu weakness even before fighting them (edo tensei). So what it minato and konan figured it out. All the people tobi has actually faced in combat have also figured out his s/t technique weakness, fu and torune did, team kakashi or more specifically sakura did. Btw if you actually go back to that fight, minato did fully understand tobi's s/t technique. Its very exaggerated when people say he figured it out. He actually just scrapped the surface and took a gamble by increasing his speed to ftg v2 in order to hit tobi. What itachi did at the last second to sasuke was to protect him from tobi. It was a gamble that didnt neccesarily pay off, but as tobi said, itachi gave sasuke abit of protection in form of the amaterasu. Itachi himself, had no intention of fighting tobi, most likely because in his weakened state although he is still a formidablle opponent, tobi is hard to hit. You need speed and as zetsu and we all saw during his match with sasuke his movement was poor. I can say a healthy itachi wouldve defeated pre rennigan tobi. Itachi's main motive was to pass on the torch to sasuke, in order for him to defeat tobi, that was one of the purpose his final battle. For sasuke to awaken the ms and eventually take his eyes in order to gain a new power, which would be strong enough to defeat tobi
Oh and I suppose you don't have to be clever to have the ability to completely analyse a jutsu's strengths and weaknesses and how to improve it with a mere glance like he did when Kakashi first revealed his raikiri to him, and against tobi?.
It was obvious that chidori left kakashi vulnerable. Again it seems like every little intelligence feat minato demonstrates, it gets exaggerated. We all saw that chidori left him vulnerable if he missed. Another other jonin who witnessed kakashi using chidori, wouldve said the same thing im sure
To create a seal that allows you to summon the shinigami (3rd admitted that Minato created it) and then use it to weaken your the kyubi by sealing away its ying chakra so that your son can have a better chance to control it in the future, to seal away your wife inside the blonde and yourself so that you can help him at the right moments when he needs you the most in the future, Minato did all of this, fought tobi and the kyubi, figured out Tobi's connection to madara in mere seconds, figured out tobi's jutsu in mere seconds, planned the kyubi's demise, protected the village and planned his son and the worls's future in that short span of time under all that pressure, dude can you comprehend the intelligence and foresight that this man has for all his feats, and the level of intwlligence he must have had to create all these awesome techs and to surpass the great Uzumaki clan in what is considered the most difficult arts to learn and comprehend?
Again he did not create the death god technique. That is an uzumaki sealing technique which kushina taught him. Minato didnt figure out the any connection between tobi and madadra. He merely guessed that somebody who could do so much to konoha could only be madara. Thats it, he guessed and he got it wrong. Tobi isnt madara. Loads of characters have shown great forsight. You make it sound as if he could see the future. If it was wasnt for a number of sitatuations his plan couldve easily failed. From naruto's death to naruto being frustrated with the villages and turning his back on them. His plan is going accordingly, but he now where near deserves all the credit
Not to mention that it took Jiraiya till he was onliterally dead to figure out who was the child of prophesy but Minato was able to make a quick analysis and figure out that Tobi was the great evil and that given the circumstances and the nature of the prophesy, his son would have tpo be that child.
So what does this mean. Jiraiya had many students. The only once alive at that time was konan, nagato and naruto. Konan and nagato turned out badly therefore it was only common sense to assume that naruto is the child of prophecy. Besides the reason jiraiya thought nagato was the child prophecy is because he had the rennigan, the sage's eye and most people in that sitatuion would also think the same. Not to forget naruto was the final student. It was obvious that tobi was evil, that isnt intelligence, thats common sense. He guessed and put faith in his son being the child of prophecy. Seems like alot of guess work are being exaggerated as intelligence feats.
Minato is by far the most intelligent guy in the manga, the people that say Itachi are fools, Itachi couldn't even foll tobi and zetsu, they saw straight through all his lies and deception like an open book, just because he outsmarted sasuke that doesn't make him the most intelligent person.
You really disappoint me. All youve said and based your intelligence feat is on who figured out tobi's technique and totally ignore all the intelligence feats other characters who havent foguht tobi have demonstrated. Tobi was itachi's partner during the massacre, of course he would know who the real itachi was, it was him who helped him wipe out his clan. So say they saw through all his lies and deception. He couldnt deceive tobi because he was the only person who knows the truth. He helped him. Yet tobi himself said itachi never seized to amaze him, when sasuke's amaterasu activated upon the sight of his sharigan. Minato if you look into it hasnt shown many intelligence feats, merely guess work. There are several characters who actually have. If it comes to out of battle intelligence then its;
1. Oro/kabuto
2. Tobi
3. Shikamaru/Shikaku
In battle intelligence;
1.Itachi
2. Minato
3. Sasuke/ kakashi (even though these two have shown more in battle feats than minato)
And figuring out the secrete to chibaku tensei? Please, Naruto spoonfed him everything he knew about that Jutsu before he figured out Its weakness, he had to ASK naruto about it before he figured it out, in other words, he had INTEL, Minato figured things out without someone spoon feeding him, Itachi is just like shikamaru, he needs intel to figure out them things.
You need to read the manga again. He figured not only the rennigan,s blind spot. For somebody who hasnt fought a rennigan user be for, but also figured out chibaku tensei's weakness in seconds. He asked naruto how he survived and thats about it. He already figured it out
Itachi couldn't even figure out how to beat Tobi and Konan figured it out up to the most minute detail, even figuring out the time gaps and what he could and couldn't do at certain times with his techs, but Itachi, his apprentice couldn't figure out shit, because otherwise he would have, as Tobi said, been able to kill him and would have know amaterusu wouldn't do the job.
Exactly what i mean, youve based your intelligence feat poorly. Yet you deny that it was on the basis of who figured out tobi's technique. If thats the case, fu and torune, but also team kakashi should be there.
Dude first of all I didn't base minato's intelligence solely on tobi, go take a look again, there are many things that I mentioned in my other post, you just seem to have ignored them for some reason.
Yes you have mostly based your intelligence feats on who figured out tobi's technique and minato merely scrapped the surface. He took a gamble which paid off. Nothing more, and used ftg v2
And you say fu, torune, kakashi and his team figured it out? Dude what exactly did they figure out? That he was making himself intangible? Great, that's so difficult right, it aint like naruto's rasengan passing right through him was a dead give away, the point was that minato konan both figured out their own way of HOW to DEFEAT the jutsu, Torune and Fu thought they did with that lame plan of theirs but look what happened to them?
Team kakashi and fu and tobi figured out everything to do with tobi's technique. They knew that in order to attack he has to solidify. Fu and torune figured it out, but they werent fast enough. None the less the figured it out. If again you go back to the manga, team kakashi figured it out. Infact in the latest chapter, why do you think gai attacked when tobi was about to make contact, and go back and listen to tobi's responce/ reaction. It isnt hard figuring out his technique. Its just that, you need speed to make your strategy work and so far only minato has this speed. In all the ninja's ive named who have figured out his technique, had the speed of ftg v2, they also wouldve harmed him
Kakashi and his squad had no idea what the hell was going on, all they were doing was brainstorming different theories and it took their collaboration and brain storming just to figure out WHAT the jutsu was, nevermind HOW to defeat it, even worse is that they took that long even though tobi was playing around with them and joking around, wonder what they would have done if tobi was bloodlusted like he was against minato and they had to deal with all the shit that was going on like minato had to at the same time.
Go back to that chapter then come back to me. And lol at tobi being blood lusted against minato. He was delaying him in order for the fox to do as much damage. What he did to minato is the same as what he did to team kakashi. In minato's case, he actually had a speed duel with him and got hit, thats about it. If he had decided to take on the same approach as he did with team kakashi, mianto wouldnt have been able to hit him, because he wouldnt go on the offensive which makes him vulnerable to attacks. If tobi was bloodlusted he wouldve actually fought till the end, and even used his numerous izanagi's if the time was right. Fact that he didnt use any, nor did he fight him till the end, clearly suggests that he has done enough to stall mianto, and he teleported back. Similar thing happened with team kakashi
And you say Itachi never saw Tobi's jutsu, come on dawg, he was Tobi's apprentice, how wouldn't he have seen the space time jutsu? They killed the uchiha clan together, how didn't he see it then, so far those are the only jutsu we have seen tobi use the most in battle, you really think Itachi never saw them when they trained? Or when they massacred the clan together? Seriously dawg how likely is that?
We have know idea whether he used it during the massacre. Secondly we arent 100% sure whether it was really tobi that helped him. Because if you go tobi has been taken on the persona of madara and has been talking like madara, therefore for all you know it was really madara who helped itachi and not tobi. Thridly, again we dont know whether itachi figured it out, but also even if tobi helped him, he didnt face that jutsu head on therefore he wouldnt necessarily know how it worked. They trained together?, seriously. Again you are merely speculating and tbh thats just a posh word for saying you are talking rubbish U_U
You're saying that Itachi and Tobi never faced each other in combat so he couldn't have figured it out yet they obviously trained together since Itachi was his apprentice, and he would have seen it when they killed the uchiha's, but the game breaker here is, when did Konan and Tobi face each other before that battle in ame? They didn't off course and konan still figured it out prior to the battle since she had already prepared her moves beforehand and her plans actually worked, unlike Itachi's amaterusu plan which just got transported away.
Tobi and itachi had a very secretive relationship. You have no proof that they trained together, nor do you have proof that they went up against each other, or itachi figured out how his technique works. If i remember correctly, tobi said the reason why he is still alive is because he kept secrets from itachi, if this is the case its fair to say he might not have even demonstrated his technique in front of him
And you say that naruto didn't tell him how it works, go read again man, sure he had already explained the jutsu before Itachi asked how he survived, rememver that Itachi asked him how he survvived after naruto said it was imossible to escape, but naruto said it was impossible to escape after he explained what it is and what it does, naruto gave him intell dawg, accept it.
You say that Itachi might have known the secrete to defeating tobi's jutsu for all we know since he didn't say whether he did or not, but actions speak louder then words dawg, he implanted amaterusu into sasuke so that he can kill Tobi with it, if he knew how to defeat it, then he would have known that amaterusu wouldn't do the job! Plus, right after tobi got rid of the amaterusu with his space time migration, he said that Itachi could have killed him if he knew the secrete of his jutsus, isn't that enough proof for you mayn?
Again youve said it yourself. Tobi admitted that he kept secrets from itachi. Similarly itachi kept secrets from him;. For all you know tobi didnt even use his s/t tech when he was around itachi, thats why he said what he said
Dude the 3rd said that it was the fourth's jutsu, not really sure what it said in the manga but in the anime he even said it was a jutsu created by the fourth and said that the fourth had written it in the forbidden scroll of seals before he died, its his jutsu dawg, he made it, stop tryna play down the guy's achievements. Even if it wasn't created by him, which it was, what difference would it make, he still took the Uzumaki seal and barrier arts to a new level with FTG and he still created a human version of the Tailed Beast Bomb with Rasengan, so it would still be a mute point for you to disprove the reaper seal. Besides, don't you think if it was an uzumaki clan technique it would have been written in the forbidden scroll of seals that it was a clan technique and Hiruzen would have said so?
This paragraph is utter rubbish. Again minato did not create the death god technique. Its one of the uzumaki sealing technique's kushina taught him. Secondly ive already responded to this post in my previous reply
Dawg everything you just said is wrong mayn, and even if you had been right, which you're not, there would have still been too many feats that I mentioned in my other post that are irrefutable, Minato is top dawg in the intelligence department, try to disprove it is like trying to disprove that one plus one is equal to two, you can't do it no matter how smart you are, lol.
Im not disputing his intelligence. Most of what you have said is either guess work on minato's part and the little true intelligence feats he has demonstrated you have either over exaggerated it or have lied about it. Example being him creating the death god technique, which again he didnt.
To summarise you post;
Minato is a genius because he figured out tobi's technqiue? He scrapped the surface
Minato created the death god?, no he didnt, its an uzumaki sealing technique, kushina taught him.
Youve based most of your intelligence feats on people who have faced tobi's in combat and guess what, they have all figured out his technique, so what.
Again, itachi figured out chibaku tensei even before, he asked naruto how he survived.
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Ive very disappointed in you. You actually had to made me correct all you mistakes, when i thought you were smarter than that. Unless you can come up with something better than what youve said, i dont intend on repeating myself U_U
First of all, let me say im very disappointed in you. Ive read acouple of your posts in the past and at first it seems you read and have good knowledge of the manga, but in your resent posts it seems like you dont i overestimated your manga knwoledge
Firstly the uzumaki clan was known for their sealing techniques. If by barrier you mean sealing barrier then yes, if by barrier you mean minato's s/t barrier then know. That isnt what the uzumaki clan were know for. This has nothing to do with ftg which i admit he created. It is a formidabble technique but not the best s/t tech let alone the best technique.
Again, this is a intelligence feat, true but many ninja's have created or expanded on jutsu's. Example being oro/kabuto,itachi/sasuke/kakashi. All these ninja have either created or expanded on their jutsu. I will admit though that the idea of creating a 'human' Tbb in the form of a rasengan is very intelligent
As i said their relationship was very secretive and neither gave anything away. To by knowledge they havent confronted each other for itachi to analyse him. Saying that i wouldnt be surprised if itachi knows of his weakness, because this isnt the first time he has figured out an opponents ninjutsu weakness even before fighting them (edo tensei). So what it minato and konan figured it out. All the people tobi has actually faced in combat have also figured out his s/t technique weakness, fu and torune did, team kakashi or more specifically sakura did. Btw if you actually go back to that fight, minato did fully understand tobi's s/t technique. Its very exaggerated when people say he figured it out. He actually just scrapped the surface and took a gamble by increasing his speed to ftg v2 in order to hit tobi. What itachi did at the last second to sasuke was to protect him from tobi. It was a gamble that didnt neccesarily pay off, but as tobi said, itachi gave sasuke abit of protection in form of the amaterasu. Itachi himself, had no intention of fighting tobi, most likely because in his weakened state although he is still a formidablle opponent, tobi is hard to hit. You need speed and as zetsu and we all saw during his match with sasuke his movement was poor. I can say a healthy itachi wouldve defeated pre rennigan tobi. Itachi's main motive was to pass on the torch to sasuke, in order for him to defeat tobi, that was one of the purpose his final battle. For sasuke to awaken the ms and eventually take his eyes in order to gain a new power, which would be strong enough to defeat tobi
It was obvious that chidori left kakashi vulnerable. Again it seems like every little intelligence feat minato demonstrates, it gets exaggerated. We all saw that chidori left him vulnerable if he missed. Another other jonin who witnessed kakashi using chidori, wouldve said the same thing im sure
Again he did not create the death god technique. That is an uzumaki sealing technique which kushina taught him. Minato didnt figure out the any connection between tobi and madadra. He merely guessed that somebody who could do so much to konoha could only be madara. Thats it, he guessed and he got it wrong. Tobi isnt madara. Loads of characters have shown great forsight. You make it sound as if he could see the future. If it was wasnt for a number of sitatuations his plan couldve easily failed. From naruto's death to naruto being frustrated with the villages and turning his back on them. His plan is going accordingly, but he now where near deserves all the credit
So what does this mean. Jiraiya had many students. The only once alive at that time was konan, nagato and naruto. Konan and nagato turned out badly therefore it was only common sense to assume that naruto is the child of prophecy. Besides the reason jiraiya thought nagato was the child prophecy is because he had the rennigan, the sage's eye and most people in that sitatuion would also think the same. Not to forget naruto was the final student. It was obvious that tobi was evil, that isnt intelligence, thats common sense. He guessed and put faith in his son being the child of prophecy. Seems like alot of guess work are being exaggerated as intelligence feats.
You really disappoint me. All youve said and based your intelligence feat is on who figured out tobi's technique and totally ignore all the intelligence feats other characters who havent foguht tobi have demonstrated. Tobi was itachi's partner during the massacre, of course he would know who the real itachi was, it was him who helped him wipe out his clan. So say they saw through all his lies and deception. He couldnt deceive tobi because he was the only person who knows the truth. He helped him. Yet tobi himself said itachi never seized to amaze him, when sasuke's amaterasu activated upon the sight of his sharigan. Minato if you look into it hasnt shown many intelligence feats, merely guess work. There are several characters who actually have. If it comes to out of battle intelligence then its;
1. Oro/kabuto
2. Tobi
3. Shikamaru/Shikaku
In battle intelligence;
1.Itachi
2. Minato
3. Sasuke/ kakashi (even though these two have shown more in battle feats than minato)
You need to read the manga again. He figured not only the rennigan,s blind spot. For somebody who hasnt fought a rennigan user be for, but also figured out chibaku tensei's weakness in seconds. He asked naruto how he survived and thats about it. He already figured it out
Exactly what i mean, youve based your intelligence feat poorly. Yet you deny that it was on the basis of who figured out tobi's technique. If thats the case, fu and torune, but also team kakashi should be there.
Yes you have mostly based your intelligence feats on who figured out tobi's technique and minato merely scrapped the surface. He took a gamble which paid off. Nothing more, and used ftg v2
Team kakashi and fu and tobi figured out everything to do with tobi's technique. They knew that in order to attack he has to solidify. Fu and torune figured it out, but they werent fast enough. None the less the figured it out. If again you go back to the manga, team kakashi figured it out. Infact in the latest chapter, why do you think gai attacked when tobi was about to make contact, and go back and listen to tobi's responce/ reaction. It isnt hard figuring out his technique. Its just that, you need speed to make your strategy work and so far only minato has this speed. In all the ninja's ive named who have figured out his technique, had the speed of ftg v2, they also wouldve harmed him
Go back to that chapter then come back to me. And lol at tobi being blood lusted against minato. He was delaying him in order for the fox to do as much damage. What he did to minato is the same as what he did to team kakashi. In minato's case, he actually had a speed duel with him and got hit, thats about it. If he had decided to take on the same approach as he did with team kakashi, mianto wouldnt have been able to hit him, because he wouldnt go on the offensive which makes him vulnerable to attacks. If tobi was bloodlusted he wouldve actually fought till the end, and even used his numerous izanagi's if the time was right. Fact that he didnt use any, nor did he fight him till the end, clearly suggests that he has done enough to stall mianto, and he teleported back. Similar thing happened with team kakashi
We have know idea whether he used it during the massacre. Secondly we arent 100% sure whether it was really tobi that helped him. Because if you go tobi has been taken on the persona of madara and has been talking like madara, therefore for all you know it was really madara who helped itachi and not tobi. Thridly, again we dont know whether itachi figured it out, but also even if tobi helped him, he didnt face that jutsu head on therefore he wouldnt necessarily know how it worked. They trained together?, seriously. Again you are merely speculating and tbh thats just a posh word for saying you are talking rubbish U_U
Tobi and itachi had a very secretive relationship. You have no proof that they trained together, nor do you have proof that they went up against each other, or itachi figured out how his technique works. If i remember correctly, tobi said the reason why he is still alive is because he kept secrets from itachi, if this is the case its fair to say he might not have even demonstrated his technique in front of him
I suggest you go read the manga again. Naruto merely told him how he survived, He figured out how the technique worked on his own U_U
Again youve said it yourself. Tobi admitted that he kept secrets from itachi. Similarly itachi kept secrets from him;. For all you know tobi didnt even use his s/t tech when he was around itachi, thats why he said what he said
This paragraph is utter rubbish. Again minato did not create the death god technique. Its one of the uzumaki sealing technique's kushina taught him. Secondly ive already responded to this post in my previous reply
Im not disputing his intelligence. Most of what you have said is either guess work on minato's part and the little true intelligence feats he has demonstrated you have either over exaggerated it or have lied about it. Example being him creating the death god technique, which again he didnt.
To summarise you post;
Minato is a genius because he figured out tobi's technqiue? He scrapped the surface
Minato created the death god?, no he didnt, its an uzumaki sealing technique, kushina taught him.
Youve based most of your intelligence feats on people who have faced tobi's in combat and guess what, they have all figured out his technique, so what.
Again, itachi figured out chibaku tensei even before, he asked naruto how he survived.
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Ive very disappointed in you. You actually had to made me correct all you mistakes, when i thought you were smarter than that. Unless you can come up with something better than what youve said, i dont intend on repeating myself U_U
The hypocrisy of human beings has no limits, you seem to be under the impression that most, if not all of what I said is based on guess work and speculation yet at least 80% of what you yourself have said in this post to disprove me is based on speculation and/or guess work, amazing.
Then you claim that the reaper seal was an uzumaki clan technique but provide absolutely. NOTHING to support that arguement when the other hand the thirds wordsto oro DIRECTLY imply that it was his.
I'm too lazy to go look at the manga pages but in the manga BOTH B and A have pointed out that Minato used Uzumaki techs to create FTG, so I don't know what the hell you were tryna prove with that one.
Minato's plans for naruto based on LUCK? What nonsense is this? So you think using the reaper seal to weaken the fox by sealing away the yin into himself so that naruto has a better chance to control the fox is guess work?
You say that Naruto could have been broken by the villagers' hate and imply that minato didn't account for that? Maybe you should read the manga better dawg, Minato sealed himself into naruto and set it up to appear in his mindscape when he released eight tails, case in point, naruto was broken by pain when he killed hinata in front of him, naruto became overwhelmed with hate, and the kyubi used his hate to try and take over him and minato appeared and solved the issue, if the villagers broke him, same thing, kyubi would use that hate to take over and minato would be there ehen eight tails were released and save him, there is no luck there mate, that was a brilliant plan, minato made provision for such a situation.
You say that naruto could have died, dude he is a jinchuuriki, obviously the sandaime would watch out for him until he became a ninja, besides, minato accounted for that too, he set merged two four elements seal to create the eight trigams seal and set it so that the seal would continuously siphon some of the kyubi's chakra into naruto, giving him the monstrous reserves that he has and partly accounting for his accelerated healing abilities, these two things would keep naruto alive whatever tough situation he was in. He accounted for naruto's safety too dawg.
Another method to ensure his safety was sending that toad to hide inside Jiraiya with the key to the seal, this way it would be almost certain that Jiraiya would be obliged to train naruto or at least they wouild have to meet each other and Jiraiya could help him, also the key would probably be safer there then at the hokage office (forbidden scroll got stolen by a genin naruto).
Man he knew that a jinchuuriki needed love to become a perfect jinchuuriki and sealed kushina into naruto and set it up for her to appear when he tried to take over the kyubi's power, her chakra chains would also be useful.
Dawg he set up all the above things and accounted for every possible scenario, did all this under extcruciating time contraints and duress with so much he had to do at the time and so much he had to worry about, I won't say he had an ability to see the future but dawg, this guy can't be denied, his intelligence and ability to think under pressure is amazing and to plan so far ahead mayn under those conditions? Nah man, if you keep tryna play him down you're only gonna make you self seem very ignorant and childish, let go of your hate dawg, there was no luck in his plans for naruto, It was a brilliantly constructed plan under near impossible conditions, let go of your hate mayn or you'll end up like sasuke.
And wow mayn to take away his victory over tobi, ahahahahah! Mayn that has gotta be one of the most rediculous things I've heard on this website, lmao! (Cry endless tears).
Ma man ma man ma man.....ma man, I can't believe how you say that he was there toonly delay the fox and then left when his job was done, lmao, right like the fourth totally didn't take away his control of the fox with the contract seal, and he totally didn't injure tobi with his rasengan, dawg tobi was forced to retreat, he lost control of the kyubi to minato and got critically injured, I can't believ yuou tried to pass it off as if hejust left of his own accord.
Izanagi doesn't heal damage so far from what we have seen, so he had to retreat, he used Izanagi against konan but when he appeared after izanagi, his face mask was STILL broken, and hearm was STILL missing, so far people have used izanagi to tuirn death into an illution and evidence against danzo and tobi shows that injuries and chakra reserves aren't replenished (karin noted that danzo's chakra too massive dips everytime he used it), izanagi didn't work because he couldn't activate it in time and got injured, minato was too fast, he was forced to retreat dawg, accept the facts.
And saying tobi wasn't blood lusted against minato? Oh my lord, so he totally didn't trap him with his chain and then try to absorb him with his jutsu right? Because he was just playing games and stalling without attacking anyone just like he was against kakashi and his squad at the Itachi vs sasuke arc? Get real bra, I told you before, hate is only gonna undermine your intelligence, just look at sasuke for reference.
You make the excuse for Itachi that he didn't fight tobi in battle so he couldn't have figured out the weakness to his jutsu, let me ask you then, when did konan fight tobi before their battle in ame? She had already figured out everything to the most minute detail BEFORE the battle in ame and set her traps for him, so your he didn't face him in combat excuse is LAME, let me tell you why.
Tobi told sasuke that Itachi tried to 'silence him forever' with amaterusu so that he wouldn't tell sasuke the truth.
Now let me pint out the difference between Konan and Itachi's plan/jutsu.
Konan figured out that it takes approximately five minutes before tobi can't be intangible anymore, so she set an explosion that would last for 10 minutes. Now evidence points towrds the direction that Itachi figured THIS part out too, since amaterusu can like last for days, it would outlast tobi's intangibility.
But konan went further with her analysis, she figured out that he couldn't stay intangible and absorb things at the same time, it had to be one or the other, and also that it takes longer for him to absorb HIMSELF then other people or things, so the explosion would get him before he fully absorbed himself, another method would have been to absorb. The explosion, but the explosion is way too large, he wouldn't have enough time before he was blown to bits.
Amaterusu on the other hand ignites everything it touches but it has never incinerated something an an instant, it took a while to burn the forest when Itachi face sasuke, it took a while to kill the snake that escaped from Orochimaru's yamata no jutsu, took a while to burn sasuke, took a while to burn the samurai at the kage summit, unlike 'onan's explosion, whixh would have been almost instant kill, tobi can absorb amaterusu long before it burns him and can even absorb himself before it burns him, and unlike konan's wide range explosion, amaterusu that burns him is relatively quick and easy to absorb, Tobi didn't need izanagi to escape Itachi's amaterusu, his space time jutsu were enough to deal with it based on the manga scenes and info I have pointed out, now this is where my point comes in, unlike konan, Itachi didn't figure out these strengths and weaknesses, otherwise he would have known that amaterusu would not have been enough to 'silence tobi forever'. It is pretty clear that Itachi couldn't achieve what konan did in figuring out tobi's weaknesses.
Now you say konan had been planning to kill tobi for years? How many years has Itachi planned to silence tobi forever?
And what proof do you have that konan planned it for years? Because konan and nagato only betrayed tobi because of naruto's talk no jutsu, so how is it that you have come to the conclusion that konan planned this for years? Not that I'm saying you're lying, but there is a clear plot hole in your statement and youy have not quoted anything to support it?
You say that tobi wouldn't have just revealed all his strengths and weaknesses to Itachi, as if he would have done that to konan, what makes you think he told konan about his abilities? Fact is konan figured it out on her own and Itachi couldn't figure it out even though he PLANNED to 'silence him forever' with amaterusu, konan only betrayed tobi because nagato did after naruto's talk no jutsu, logically, it would mean that she only planned tobi's death after that incident, Itachi planned it for years and didn't figure it out based on his actions, Izanagi, as I explained above had nothing to do with it, and I know you don't have manga fact to prove that tobi used izanagi against amaterusu.
Right now you deny that Tobi and zetsu saw through Itachi like an open book and claim that Tobi's feat of knowing Itachi's secrete proves nothing, that is what is called deluding yourself ma man. Strange how you contradict yourself, you say that these guys kept secretes from each to somehow defend itachi from not figuring out what konan did, but then this somehow doesn't apply to this scenario? Dude no one knew that Itachi was a double agent besides the elders, Itachi tried to foll tobi by asking for help to kill the uchiha clan in exchange that itachi would help him with his akatsuki goals. But tobi saw through that, he figured out that Itachi was actually working for the elders and the sandaime and aslo figured out that Itachi didn't truly want to help with akatsuki and was actually a double agent, I don't know how on earth you can say it is obvious tobi kknew based on the fact that the elders also knew it, as if tobi was part of the elders council or something.
Dude when Naruto told Itachi that he knew the truth and that tobi told him, Itachi was shocked that tobi knew all this time and cursed tobi, if that isn't enough proof that Itachi was outsmarted I don't know what is, because clearly from that scene Itachi was shocked that Tobi knew.
Zetsu shocked by Itachi's strength? Where did you get that crap? Throughout the fight zestsu was pointing descrepancies in Itachi's prowess, noting that Itachi was underperforming and should be doing much better than he was, saying that something was wrong, dude it was the other way around, zetsu wasn't shocked by Itachi's strength, he was shocked that Itachi was performing so badly. And black zetsu knew what the yata mirror and totsuka sword were and exolained them to white zetsu, he was never shocked by Itachi's strength, he was shocked by Itachi's low level perdormance, which was due to illness, the only thing that Itachi managed to hide from tobi and zetsu's eyes was his illness, and even that was discovered eventually, dude those guys saw through him like an open book, Itachi failed to deceive and outsmart them.
Now you say that the guy that killed the clan with itachi might have been the real madara, but have no evidence to support your claim, pure speculation.
I also don't have ABSOLUTE evidence that it was or not, but I have morte thann enough substantial evidence.
1) Real madara has been ressurected by kabuto, and since very other edo that has been ressurected looked exactly the age they were when they died and the clothing that they wore. Then it would be impossible that the madara that killed the uchiha with itachi was real madara, he would have looked as old as dirt at the time, the madara that has been ressurected looked exactly like the one that fought hashirama, clothing and age, he would have died shortly after that battle.
2) The sandaime mizukage that kisame saw looked exactly like the one that Itachi was shown to meet at the forest to ask for help, in terms of hair style, mask design, and clothing style, now the sandaime mizukage revealed his face to kisame in that scene, and then YEARS later, TOBI removed his mask and showed kisame his face, and Kisame acknowledged him as the same person he saw when the sandaime removed his mask, so safe to say, Tobi has worn that mask that the sandaime wore, toi bi had long hair too, and tobi wore that clothing, because kisame confirmed those two people to be one and the same, you get it now right?
3) If real madara had been alive too at the time, he probably would have attacked Konoha and the fourth himself instead of sending Tobi.
4) The first thing that Madara said when he was ressurected was that nagto boy has finally grown, meaning that he expected to be ressurected by nagato when he grew up, his words imply that he knew nagato as a little kid, and that woukd have been before the second shinobi war, since jiraiya met the orphans during the second war, that implies that madara was long dead before the uchiha massacre.
So there is my evidence, circumstancial for the most part but irrefutable. Itachi killed the uchi with tobi's help, not real madara.
You say that any jounin could have figured out kakashi's weakness after they saw him fight? Ahahahahaha! Mayn you crack me up dawg, you do know that KAKASHI HIMSELF was a JOUNIN at the time right? Which Jounin from konoha do you know that is smarter then Kakashi? Kakashi, a jounin, cdidnt figure out the weakness of HIS OWN technique, and you claim that any jounin could have figured it out, amazing mayn, you are really incredible mayn LMAO!
And dawg from your words, it sounds like you're saying that a jounin would figure out the weakness of the jutsu after kakashi used it and the reasons why, but if it was AFTER, then kakashi wiuld be dead now, dude, in order to save him, Minato had to figure it out BEFORE the weakness was exploited, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to save him from that guy.
Dude Kakashi is one of the smartest shinobi in the elemental nations and was a JOUNIN when he FAILED to figure out the eweakness of HIS OWN jutsu, your jounin theory is crap, a normal jounin wouldn't have achieved that feat, Kakashi is proof.
Dude as far as I'm concerned, the only thing you proved to me was the chibaku tensei thing, I went and read the whole chapter again at mangabit.com, and yeah, you're right about that one, the only thing that naruto told him was that the gravity pull is too strong and that he only escaped becauser of the fox, I will have to apologise to all the Itachi fans that I have insulted about that one, Itachi figured out the weakness himself yo, though how he would have destroyed it without B's TBB and Naruto's FRS is another debate on its own.
Either then the Itachi/chibaku tensei ish, I don't know what the hell you were talking about, pure gibberish and speculation dawg, hypocrisy at its highest level for accusing me and then trying to do the same to disprove me without manga fact, its like tryoing to stop a fire with petrol gas.
