Top 3 Best Shonobi

[Aya San]

Maddy is well rounded, he has everything

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[MickNerks]

Kabuto should be there instead of the old timer .

Would you mine explaining why?
I personally dont think kabuto has been shown or described as more skillful then hiruzen.

Those are hypeboles of manga to exaggerate the character. Breaking a Genjutsu doesn't mean you can use Genjutsu. It just shows you can control Chakra well. Besides, all of your statements about Hiruzen are from chapter that were released in the 1999.

Unless he shows Genjutsu, he doesn't get any.

I see what you are saying, but this thread it to represent the shinobi from the original naruto and shippuden. And like many others I see what you mean when you say that the 1000 genjutsu may be an exageration. But some of the thing spoken about hiruzen were descriptions of his power. For example, the point stated that he master every form of shinobi combat. This includes genjutsu, so even if we havent seen him us it, we know that he is a master of it.

This is much like the description of hashirama being able to heal himself without a hand sign. We have never seen it, but through madara's description of his power we know that he is capable of it.

I do however agree with you that madara may be the most skilled shinobi we have ever seen.

 

[BlacLord™]

Hiruzen hasn't displayed great skill in Genjutsu or he doesn't have any KKG. Kabuto is easily number 3 or 4.

-Ninjutsu: No needed as witnessed against Itachi and Sasuke. He has Ninjutsu technique in every catogerie.
-Genjutsu: The one he used on CE and Sasuke and Itachi.
-Taijutsu: He Sage mode along with Jirobo's DNA
-Poisons

And i could go on but you get the picture.

I have to concur with Hiruzen part; his ninjutsu wasn't impressive and he couldn't dispel Hashirama's genjutsu.

His Taijutsu is debatable though.

 

[Bronze]

Would you mine explaining why?
I personally dont think kabuto has been shown or described as more skillful then hiruzen.



I see what you are saying, but this thread it to represent the shinobi from the original naruto and shippuden. And like many others I see what you mean when you say that the 1000 genjutsu may be an exageration. But some of the thing spoken about hiruzen were descriptions of his power. For example, the point stated that he master every form of shinobi combat. This includes genjutsu, so even if we havent seen him us it, we know that he is a master of it.

This is much like the description of hashirama being able to heal himself without a hand sign. We have never seen it, but through madara's description of his power we know that he is capable of it.

I do however agree with you that madara may be the most skilled shinobi we have ever seen.

Those were hypeboles. Hiruzen has yet to show all of these:
-Medical Ninjutsu
-Genjutsu

Again. The description we got from Hiruzen were hypeboles. Something that happened a long time ago. Kishimoto doesn't even show anymore care about Hiruzen, so it doesn't take a genius to figure out Hiruzen was all hype.

There are many people who are more versatile than Hiruzen and they are:
-Kabuto
-Nagato
-Minato
-Sasuke
-Naruto
-Kakashi
-Hashirama
-Tobirama
-Gaara
-Obito
etc...

 

[Chīkara]

This isnt about who has the best jutsu. Its more about who have the most skills and there mastery level with those skill. The skills are ninjutsu, taijutsu, genjutsu, bukijutsu, kenjutsu, barrier jutsu, chakra control, etc.

This has nothing to do with power, strength, or jutsu.

Listen.

-Sasuke is up there with the best taijutsu
-Naruto is up there with the best chakra control
-Sasuke is up there with best ninjutsu mastery ( Chidori, enton manipulation Kirin)
-Sasuke the best in genjutsu with probably madara.
-Kenjutsu Sasuke
-Bukijutsu Sasuke ( Chidori infused swords)

Sasuke currently mastered more than naruto.
But Naruto surpass Sasuke in Raw strenght and chakura control.

And that's the reason why these 2 are easily up there.

 

[Retsu]

Obito and Kabuto dooky on Hiruzen

 

[Aya San]

Does Sasuke have Fuinjutsu? If he does I don't see why not

 

[BlacLord™]

Does Sasuke have Fuinjutsu? If he does I don't see why not

Raikou Kenka and Kaija Houin.

 

[Bronze]

Does Sasuke have Fuinjutsu? If he does I don't see why not

He performed Fuinjutsu on Anko to revive Orochimaru.

---

 

[MickNerks]

Those were hypeboles. Hiruzen has yet to show all of these:
-Medical Ninjutsu
-Genjutsu

Again. The description we got from Hiruzen were hypeboles. Something that happened a long time ago. Kishimoto doesn't even show anymore care about Hiruzen, so it doesn't take a genius to figure out Hiruzen was all hype.

There are many people who are more versatile than Hiruzen and they are:
-Kabuto
-Nagato
-Minato
-Sasuke
-Naruto
-Kakashi
-Hashirama
-Tobirama
-Gaara
-Obito
etc...

I wont argue with you about whether kishi forgot about one of his characters or not, becuase most the time when people say this, it is baseless.

I dont see how someone being said to master genjutsu can be a hyperbole, as either they know it or they dont. Its seems more like you are trying to disregard everything that we have learned about hiruzen's character because you have never witnessed it. Either way this isnt just about genjutsu. This is about all the skills that come with being a shinobi whether they are c-rank or s-rank.

In terms of:

Ninjutsu - Both
taijutsu - Both
genjutsu - (according to you) kabuto
barrier jutsu - hiruzen
medical jutsu - kabuto
chakra control - Both
intelligence - Both
finjutsu - Hiruzen
bukijutsu - Hiruzen
Senses - Both
space time jutsu - Both
ying-yang - Both

Hiruzen is said and has displayed more skill. Even if we list the skills hiruzen still has more. And whether you want to call it releavent or not, hiruzen is said to be a master in whatever skills he knows. Naruto has shown skill in dispelling genjutsu, so i dont see why the hokage wouldnt. And hiruzen has a 5 in the databook in genjutsu, so something in the statements about him must be true.

Listen.

-Sasuke is up there with the best taijutsu
-Naruto is up there with the best chakra control
-Sasuke is up there with best ninjutsu mastery ( Chidori, enton manipulation Kirin)
-Sasuke the best in genjutsu with probably madara.
-Kenjutsu Sasuke
-Bukijutsu Sasuke ( Chidori infused swords)

Sasuke currently mastered more than naruto.
But Naruto surpass Sasuke in Raw strenght and chakura control.

And that's the reason why these 2 are easily up there.

I agree that sasuke and naruto are very skilledful, but they are not the best. In terms of skill there are many shinobi who have way more experience:


Madara
Hashirama
Kakashi
Jiraiya
Hiruzen
Obito
Orochimaru
Ect.

Im not bashing naruto and sasuke by any means, I just think in terms of skill they havent shown enought to be thought of as one of the top 3

 

[Flawž]

Sage obito
Current madara
Hashirama

Top 3 in every aspect.

 

[MickNerks]

Sage obito
Current madara
Hashirama

Top 3 in every aspect.

I can agree with this list as well.

one of the things im on the fence on is whether orochimaru is a more SKILLED shinobi that hashirama.

 

[Flawž]

I can agree with this list as well.

one of the things im on the fence on is whether orochimaru is a more SKILLED shinobi that hashirama.

Well orochimaru is quite formiddable but he isn't on the level of hashirama.

hashirama excel's in every aspect you can think of. Hes a well rounded shinobi capable of fighting anyone.

I'd say oro makes the Top 5 tho.

 

[jorgelius]

amazing job with first post and i respect your opinion and i get what u r trying to tell

just curious why u didnt include itachi? he is master at taijutsu genjutsu shurikenjutsu etc intelligent + at very young age interested about his predecessors and techniques they used,

if point is tell who are most gifted shinobi not strongest or biggest chakra well itachi would be my choice due someone with "normal" chakra can be that good, he honed his skills to max at every aspect he get from birth

 

[MickNerks]

amazing job with first post and i respect your opinion and i get what u r trying to tell

just curious why u didnt include itachi? he is master at taijutsu genjutsu shurikenjutsu etc intelligent + at very young age interested about his predecessors and techniques they used,

if point is tell who are most gifted shinobi not strongest or biggest chakra well itachi would be my choice due someone with "normal" chakra can be that good, he honed his skills to max at every aspect he get from birth

I honestly did think about itachi at first, but his chakra levels were so poor during his life, i didnt know whether to attribute that to bad chakra control or not. But in terms of skill, i do believe itachi falls in top ten.

 

[BlacLord™]

Sage obito
Current madara
Hashirama

Top 3 in every aspect.

Obito isn't skilled in comparison to the best.

He had lot's of power, but power doesn't equate to skill. We witnessed his skill level in his spar against Kakashi, where the obvious was further indicated, that is to say, he is below the aforementioned.

Even with the advantages of being the Jinchuuriki of the Juubi, he made a plethora of wrong choices, lost his composure and was out-classed.

You would be right in suggesting Madara and Hashirama though.

 

[MickNerks]

Obito isn't skilled in comparison to the best.

He had lot's of power, but power doesn't equate to skill. We witnessed his skill level in his spar against Kakashi, where the obvious was further indicated, that is to say, he is below the aforementioned.

Even with the advantages of being the Jinchuuriki of the Juubi, he made a plethora of wrong choices, lost his composure and was out-classed.

You would be right in suggesting Madara and Hashirama though.

That actually is a very great point. Obito is not the brightest of shinobi. The fact that he allowed naruto to blow his mask clean off his face demonstrates that.

 

[Flawž]

Obito isn't skilled in comparison to the best.

He had lot's of power, but power doesn't equate to skill. We witnessed his skill level in his spar against Kakashi, where the obvious was further indicated, that is to say, he is below the aforementioned.

Even with the advantages of being the Jinchuuriki of the Juubi, he made a plethora of wrong choices, lost his composure and was out-classed.

You would be right in suggesting Madara and Hashirama though.

Absolutely ridiculous.

Being the juubi's jinchuuriki grants you unimaginable power. Obito being an uchiha and Senju who posses the rinnegan and Sharingan is a clear indication that His skill level is indeed quite high.

Being the Juubi's Jinchuuriki , Everything is heightened Incredibly.

Ninjutsu - he used 4 ninjutsu combined together/ thats far surpasses anyone.

Genjutsu- obito already showed great Genjutsu feats before being a juubi's jinchuuriki. Now with The juubi's emense chakra and life force,His genjutsu is heigthened greatly.

Taijutsu - Even minato was caught even with FTG.

Kenjutsu- Uses the sword that craeted everything and The sage's Staff.

Speed - Fastest shinobi.

Strenght - Strongest shinobi

Intelligence - Obito is quite formidable as he has great analysis techniques and Knows about many things ranging from everything.

Sage obito is the number 1 well rounded shinobi.

 

[jorgelius]

Absolutely ridiculous.

Being the juubi's jinchuuriki grants you unimaginable power. Obito being an uchiha and Senju who posses the rinnegan and Sharingan is a clear indication that His skill level is indeed quite high.

Being the Juubi's Jinchuuriki , Everything is heightened Incredibly.

Ninjutsu - he used 4 ninjutsu combined together/ thats far surpasses anyone.

Genjutsu- obito already showed great Genjutsu feats before being a juubi's jinchuuriki. Now with The juubi's emense chakra and life force,His genjutsu is heigthened greatly.

Taijutsu - Even minato was caught even with FTG.

Kenjutsu- Uses the sword that craeted everything and The sage's Staff.

Speed - Fastest shinobi.

Strenght - Strongest shinobi

Intelligence - Obito is quite formidable as he has great analysis techniques and Knows about many things ranging from everything.

Sage obito is the number 1 well rounded shinobi.

no, point u quote is far better sure he accomplished a lot and gained much power by altering his body and most of all became juubi host but this have little to do with skill gets all powerful and still manage to lost is opposite to skill in battle

his best skills were manipulation and thus naruto is better at that
intelligent again manipulation is quite different, naruto isnt smart at all yet he finds a way to say right words to change their hearts

if we look ninja skills as taijutsu genjutsu and analytical skiils in battle

taijutsu: he got ass whooped by freaking kakashi same thing when he was genin
genjutsu: best he could do is tie with kakashi how pathetic is that
analytical skills: he failed to notice kakashi's kamui traps and lots of crap to a point he lost, watch anime he only spam kamui while kakashi outsmart him at every turn

 

[Lilt]

I honestly did think about itachi at first, but his chakra levels were so poor during his life, i didnt know whether to attribute that to bad chakra control or not.

Itachi, when healthy, had amazing chakra, as he was able to use all three Mangekyō jutsu as a child:

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His lowered stamina is because of sickness, which was equal to being severely injured, as stated here:

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And keep in mind that he outlasted Sasuke chakra-wise when sick (Sasuke was drained, Itachi used Susano'o.)