Minato has clones...not as many, maybe 6-8 max. He doesn't need them...plus the fact he can multiply and throw out over 20-30 kunai's in an instant like Itachi hand signs.
Clones are just r@pe in all honesty...Minato isn't the fastest for nothing...FTG is teleportation not speed Kishi stated he's the fastest.
I know minato has clones, I said he doesn't have SM clones(that'sa because in the text I was using SM clones as explanation). Clones are very helpful, even more in minato's case, as he can teleport clones, use them as ambush, many good strategies may come combining FTG with kage bushin.
The mastery lvl of the rinnegan. Nagato never displayed the ability to be able to usde the gedo mazou like madara did. If he could, the whole ritual to extract the bijuu would be a complete and stupid waste of time. Madara is the original owner of that rinnegan, that's why only him has full extent of it's powers.
To why naruto and minato can beat him, here it goes.
Naruto's kage bushins.
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Naruto BM has a great fire power, his speed is insane and he has a good defense. The kage bushins can be used to create a diversion or to atack as well, because the clones are very powerul too(remember that he can make SM clones, KCM clones and even BM clones, all these clones are kage level). This is enough to put him above nagato, as naruto can use the SM clones to atack nagato with taijutsu, while he uses kcm clones as a diversion for powerful blasts or punches. We're aware that nagato can't absorve too much SM chakra without turning into a stone frog, making SM perfect for taijutsu. Naruto can also use a shockwave(he uses the bijuu dama close to nagato, but not close enough for him to absorve it, creating huge shockwaves,explosions, which nagato can't absorve). Besides, if nagato is busy abosorving a big bijuu dama, he is opened for taijutsu atacks.
The gedo mazou ddin't display any tanking abilities. Bee was easily able to punch it down IIRC. Naruto and minato would be able to damage it considerably with bijuu damas. And both naruto and minato(minato easily, because he has FTG) can dodge the other atacks. The only thing minato doesn't have is the SM clones, but has FTG, which will help him to use some kage bushin ambush atacks and will allow him to dodge many atacks from nagato.
I agree with your list almost completely, but I got a question. Is that minato with BM? Because you said no edo, but at full power, so I'm confused. Also, how is tobirama above Itachi? I mean, it's without edo, and he has FTG, I know, but, how is that going to damage susanoo? I'm just asking, ok?
Oh yeah, sure. But still, that isn't enough to tank bijuu damas in 50% kurama jin lvl. Not multiple ones.
You also have to remember, it wasn't just "some branches". It was the god tree, juubi's last from, and it was hunting people with high charka reserves. Naruto already has a lot of chakra, plus 50% kurama, plus SM. And besides, he was closer to obito, so it would be hard to get away of that giant tree.
Nagato can spam it, sure. But Naruto BM can sense it and dodge it with his speed. Besides, when nagato uses that, he kind of becomes vunerable, being pierced with those rods and everything.
I agree with your list almost completely, but I got a question. Is that minato with BM? Because you said no edo, but at full power, so I'm confused. Also, how is tobirama above Itachi? I mean, it's without edo, and he has FTG, I know, but, how is that going to damage susanoo? I'm just asking, ok?
I don't get that. BSM has shown no grater feat than BM. BSM is BM with sage chakra has not done any thing to suggest it is stronger in anyway. BSM is fan hype only
Naruto BM has a great fire power, his speed is insane and he has a good defense. The kage bushins can be used to create a diversion or to atack as well, because the clones are very powerul too(remember that he can make SM clones, KCM clones and even BM clones, all these clones are kage level). This is enough to put him above nagato, as naruto can use the SM clones to atack nagato with taijutsu, while he uses kcm clones as a diversion for powerful blasts or punches. We're aware that nagato can't absorve too much SM chakra without turning into a stone frog, making SM perfect for taijutsu. Naruto can also use a shockwave(he uses the bijuu dama close to nagato, but not close enough for him to absorve it, creating huge shockwaves,explosions, which nagato can't absorve). Besides, if nagato is busy abosorving a big bijuu dama, he is opened for taijutsu atacks.
The gedo mazou ddin't display any tanking abilities. Bee was easily able to punch it down IIRC. Naruto and minato would be able to damage it considerably with bijuu damas. And both naruto and minato(minato easily, because he has FTG) can dodge the other atacks. The only thing minato doesn't have is the SM clones, but has FTG, which will help him to use some kage bushin ambush atacks and will allow him to dodge many atacks from nagato.
I don't get that. BSM has shown no grater feat than BM. BSM is BM with sage chakra has not done any thing to suggest it is stronger in anyway. BSM is fan hype only
Wrong. As there is no big feat to put him above, there is nothing to put him equal. iI'm saying this because previous manga logic indicates SM boosts the user.
We all know how SM works:
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This is very important: after entering SM, the atributes of the user get a serious power up(strength, durability, speed, etc)
Now, let's understand what happens in BSM. Naruto is in BM, and then, he enters sage mode. Kurama's chackra can sync perfectly with senjutsu chakra. Naruto enters BSM.
In this situation, it's easy to see that, for BSM, Naruto BM acts as a base form. What does this mean? It means that BSM is an amplified version of the BM, all the atributes were increased, as it is how the SM works.
SM was portrayed as a multiplier, increasing the user's atributes in proportions. In this case:
Naruto BSM/ Naruto BM= Naruto SM/ Naruto base form= X. X is the constant of multiplication of the SM, the multiplying factor of the SM.
So you multiply by X thr atributes of the base form, in this case, naruto BM is a base form to BSM.
As kurama's chakra managed to sync perfectly with the SM, being in BM doesn't prevent the multiplying factor to be applied.
Another thing people say is: "Ah, but kurama comes from juubi, so it's natural energy, so it doesn't increase the power". That's a mistake. The bijuu chakras clearly changed from when they were the juubi, and from when they were natural energy. Bijuu chakra=/= natural energy and =/= senjutsu chakra.
The proof is that naruto needed to enter SM to affect obito, even while in KCM and BM. And even juugo's sage chakra from his sage transformation, that is an incomplete SM, could do it. So, kurama's chakra is very different from senjutsu chakra and from natural energy.
Wrong. As there is no big feat to put him above, there is nothing to put him equal. iI'm saying this because previous manga logic indicates SM boosts the user.
We all know how SM works:
You must be registered for see images
This is very important: after entering SM, the atributes of the user get a serious power up(strength, durability, speed, etc)
Now, let's understand what happens in BSM. Naruto is in BM, and then, he enters sage mode. Kurama's chackra can sync perfectly with senjutsu chakra. Naruto enters BSM.
In this situation, it's easy to see that, for BSM, Naruto BM acts as a base form. What does this mean? It means that BSM is an amplified version of the BM, all the atributes were increased, as it is how the SM works.
SM was portrayed as a multiplier, increasing the user's atributes in proportions. In this case:
Naruto BSM/ Naruto BM= Naruto SM/ Naruto base form= X. X is the constant of multiplication of the SM, the multiplying factor of the SM.
So you multiply by X thr atributes of the base form, in this case, naruto BM is a base form to BSM.
As kurama's chakra managed to sync perfectly with the SM, being in BM doesn't prevent the multiplying factor to be applied.
Another thing people say is: "Ah, but kurama comes from juubi, so it's natural energy, so it doesn't increase the power". That's a mistake. The bijuu chakras clearly changed from when they were the juubi, and from when they were natural energy. Bijuu chakra=/= natural energy and =/= senjutsu chakra.
The proof is that naruto needed to enter SM to affect obito, even while in KCM and BM. And even juugo's sage chakra from his sage transformation, that is an incomplete SM, could do it. So, kurama's chakra is very different from senjutsu chakra and from natural energy.
I understand what you are sayin, but at the same time all it could of done is change karumas chakra into sage chakra hence no portrayal of it being stronger than normal BM. My argument is also a logical one. BSM could not be a strength boost, nut just a chakra change which was need to harm obito
I agree with your list almost completely, but I got a question. Is that minato with BM? Because you said no edo, but at full power, so I'm confused. Also, how is tobirama above Itachi? I mean, it's without edo, and he has FTG, I know, but, how is that going to damage susanoo? I'm just asking, ok?
You do know susanoo has a weakness and no susanoo user goes straight to PS so....rasengan at the spine (I'm sure if he can figure out Kamui in 3 seconds and Rinne Rebirth in 1 or 2 he can figure out susanoo)
Wrong. As there is no big feat to put him above, there is nothing to put him equal. iI'm saying this because previous manga logic indicates SM boosts the user.
We all know how SM works:
You must be registered for see images
This is very important: after entering SM, the atributes of the user get a serious power up(strength, durability, speed, etc)
Now, let's understand what happens in BSM. Naruto is in BM, and then, he enters sage mode. Kurama's chackra can sync perfectly with senjutsu chakra. Naruto enters BSM.
In this situation, it's easy to see that, for BSM, Naruto BM acts as a base form. What does this mean? It means that BSM is an amplified version of the BM, all the atributes were increased, as it is how the SM works.
SM was portrayed as a multiplier, increasing the user's atributes in proportions. In this case:
Naruto BSM/ Naruto BM= Naruto SM/ Naruto base form= X. X is the constant of multiplication of the SM, the multiplying factor of the SM.
So you multiply by X thr atributes of the base form, in this case, naruto BM is a base form to BSM.
As kurama's chakra managed to sync perfectly with the SM, being in BM doesn't prevent the multiplying factor to be applied.
Another thing people say is: "Ah, but kurama comes from juubi, so it's natural energy, so it doesn't increase the power". That's a mistake. The bijuu chakras clearly changed from when they were the juubi, and from when they were natural energy. Bijuu chakra=/= natural energy and =/= senjutsu chakra.
The proof is that naruto needed to enter SM to affect obito, even while in KCM and BM. And even juugo's sage chakra from his sage transformation, that is an incomplete SM, could do it. So, kurama's chakra is very different from senjutsu chakra and from natural energy.
I mean...that's all hype as well...it was said. Said. Kakashi said Baykugan > Sharingan....Kakashi said Sharingan can't see chakra points...sasuke can, he can even see his blood cells/stream.
Kakashi was said to cut a lightning bolt...he barley handled a regular lightning attack from Kakazu :|
Naruto BSM is on par with EMS incomplete...unless I see him over doing Sasuke in a 2 on one fight then I'll say otherwise till then BSM = EMS (incomplete). Its only fair to get rid of the hype as of now, k?
I mean...that's all hype as well...it was said. Said. Kakashi said Baykugan > Sharingan....Kakashi said Sharingan can't see chakra points...sasuke can, he can even see his blood cells/stream.
Kakashi was said to cut a lightning bolt...he barley handled a regular lightning attack from Kakazu :|
Naruto BSM is on par with EMS incomplete...unless I see him over doing Sasuke in a 2 on one fight then I'll say otherwise till then BSM = EMS (incomplete). Its only fair to get rid of the hype as of now, k?
It's not hype. Hype is something that barely holds any evidence. BSM has previous manga logic. SM isn't just "said" to improved. It does improve, it does boost. Thois was proven in the pain fight. You ca'nt say SM naruto= Naruto.
The rest follows that I said above.
I understand what you are sayin, but at the same time all it could of done is change karumas chakra into sage chakra hence no portrayal of it being stronger than normal BM. My argument is also a logical one. BSM could not be a strength boost, nut just a chakra change which was need to harm obito
It wasn't portrayed as weaker either. The thing is that they were fighting a much stronger opponent from when BM first showed up, so we coudn't see thar difference just like we saw in the pain fight. That's the point.
BSM is a power up based on previous logic of how SM works.
Kishi stated he's the fastest.
