Toneri Otsutsuki

[UchihasRightfulHeir]

So I've been having a lot of arguments with people about Toneri and thought I would just make a thread about him.

My argument: Toneri is weak for an Otsutsuki. Not even a top tier character and he is significantly overrated. This is not a tenseigan bash btw. Give the tenseigan to any other otsutsuki and they wreck most people.

The primary basis of this argument is simple. Toneri's most powerful attacks were tanked by Naruto in his KCSM cloak and nothing more.

Toneri's two most powerful techniques.

Golden Wheel: Toneri used this twice. One to split the moon, this also hit Naruto dead on and Naruto tanked it with ease. Second time, he directed it straight at Naruto and Naruto probably realized he could handle it no problem so only bothered to cloak the hand he was using to block the technique(lol Naruto is a troll)

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but people will say "oh but it split the moon". But we found out the moon was hollow in NV so that feat doesn't really mean much. What we do know is that Naruto tanked the tech. So golden wheel has a ridiculous scale, is strong enough to cut through rock(however thick the moon really is) but not strong enough to deal Naruto any damage in his cloak.

Silver Wheel: Toneri used this twice also if i remember, one to blow the crust of the moon, this was directed at Naruto and his team, they all came out unfazed and really only sai's ink birds took any damage. Second time Naruto stalemated this tech with his planetary rasengan, Planetary rasengan.

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And these are his powerful techniques, how is he top tier? how?

meanwhile, this is strong enough to pierce Naruto

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Conclusion, Toneri is all flash and No bite. like imagine being solo'd by a single punch sigh which of your favs can be embarassed like that? With that in mind, any character with a semi-decent defense on the level of just a KCM cloak will tank Toneri's tech. I'll name a few

1. 3rd raikage (can tank bijuu bomb. toneri is not doing squat to him. 3rd raikage stands with arms folded bored at this guy)
2. 4th raikage (sword pierces Naruto, Chidori > sword, Chidori did basically 0 damage to Raikage armor, Toneri does 0 damage to raikage. raikage trolls him)
4. MS sasuke and above(any version of susanoo really)
5. war arc BM Naruto and above( maybe even KCM Naruto).
6: Itachi (obviously)
7. gaara

I can go on and on.

That's not to say toneri wouldn't beat some of these people. He has some things that are going for him. His speed is top tier so he can blitz a lot of people and he has chakra absorption as well as the regenerating otsutsuki statue but that's about it.

This guy doesn't make my top 20 list( I could probably push 30 if i really tried): DMS Kakashi, juubito, madara, hashi, indra, ashura etc all solo this guy with ease.

 

[Hakke]

you were already told how Naruto didn't really tank but he just evaded it. a sword was enough to pierce through a stronger form of himself, now tell me, do you think that that simple sword can slice the whole moon?

it just doesn't make any sense, Naruto surely didn't tank it.

and the Last KCM Naruto possessed Rukidou Chakra and is much more powerful than War arc KCM Naruto heck he is even more powerful than War Arc BSM Naruto. so Toneri losing to him does not make him a low tier.

 

[UchihasRightfulHeir]

you were already told how Naruto didn't really tank but he just evaded it. a sword was enough to pierce through a stronger form of himself, now tell me, do you think that that simple sword can slice the whole moon?

it just doesn't make any sense, Naruto surely didn't tank it.

Well we see the tech basically strike him then he blocks it the second time with just his hand so...

Like I said, it's just the moon feat that's blinding everybody. The moon is hollow and is really just rock so toneri's long ass beam was able to cut it in half. KCM durability > rock and golden wheel had problems there.

And to answer your question, if you had a sword the size of golden wheel, you could cut the moon in two. Golden wheel has a ridiculous range but less damaging power than you think. Think about when kakashi blocked zabuza's sword with just a kunai. the sword is larger but kakashi matched it with a tiny kunai. Obviously the sword has a longer range so can cut bigger targets clean in two. But if a kunai is sharper than the larger sword it can pierce more durable targets than the sword would. The less flashy but sharper weapon wins.

Same with Toneri, his tech cut the moon which is all fine and dandy but what of his opponent, 0 damage. Wasn't even an issue.

 

[KidGamer65]

No, the Moon is not entirely hollow obviously. Enough room was hollowed out a small country. That's not even half of the Moon's size. The Moon dwarfs any Mountain and that puts the cutting power of his blade far beyond any Bijuu Dama. Stop arguing that Naruto tanked it. He did not tank it. That doesn't even make any sense no matter how we try to spin it. He dodged it and that's why he wasn't pushed out of and through the Moon, but was still in the initial crack made by the blade. That along w/ the size of the blade compared to Naruto's body are why he survived it. The larger the target compared to the edge of the blade, the better chance of penetration.

-It cuts through any PS or any Mokuton Avatar.
-It cuts through any Raikage, that or Toneri just absorbs all their chakra using Localized Reincarnation Explosion.
-It cuts through any Susanoo, including Itachi's.
-It cuts through Gaara's Sand with no effort.
-It cuts through any Bijuu Mode/Avatar with no effort.

This also ignores his other abilities such as the ability to control repulsive and attractive forces, albeit at a limited level compared to the Rinnegan at least in terms of raw power and the fact he possesses a full set of Gudo Dama. That fact alone puts him above anyone who isn't BM Naruto/EMS Sasuke level.

The only people who beat Toneri are the ones in this Manga who obtained Rikudos chakra or the Juubi. Kakashi, Naruto, Obito, Madara, Sasuke, Kaguya, Hagoromo, Hamura, Ashura, Indra. Or people who have the means to dodge/evade/nullify his strongest techs and the power/speed/technique to land a hit and kill him, but the only people who have that ability are the ones already listed. Oh yeah, and 8th Gate Gai. All others die. People like Madara (no Rikudo power) and Hashirama have the means to kill him but have no real answer to Golden Wheel.

 

[KidGamer65]

Well we see the tech basically strike him then he blocks it the second time with just his hand so...

Like I said, it's just the moon feat that's blinding everybody. The moon is hollow and is really just rock so toneri's long ass beam was able to cut it in half. KCM durability > rock and golden wheel had problems there.

And to answer your question, if you had a sword the size of golden wheel, you could cut the moon in two. Golden wheel has a ridiculous range but less damaging power than you think. Think about when kakashi blocked zabuza's sword with just a kunai. the sword is larger but kakashi matched it with a tiny kunai. Obviously the sword has a longer range so can cut bigger targets clean in two. But if a kunai is sharper than the larger sword it can pierce more durable targets than the sword would. The less flashy but sharper weapon wins.

Same with Toneri, his tech cut the moon which is all fine and dandy but what of his opponent, 0 damage. Wasn't even an issue.

Bold is also bad logic. The Moon and Mountains on Earth are all rock, yet it's harder to cut through the Moon completely because it is made of more rock, thus is more durable thus if you want to penetrate deeper more energy is needed. Extend Sasuke's regular sword to the size of Golden Wheel and it's not cutting the Moon in half. Doesn't even come close.

Madara's PS cuts through multiple Mountains. Even if you wanted to downplay the blade you'd have to at the very least put it on par with this if you want to use the logic that "rock is rock". That alone is enough to fodderize everyone besides EMS Madara leveled fighters and above. Combine that w/ the rest of his arsenal and that puts him above everyone besides VoTE Madara, Hashirama, and those above them, so you are still massively underrating him.

 

[UchihasRightfulHeir]

No, the Moon is not entirely hollow obviously. Enough room was hollowed out a small country. That's not even half of the Moon's size. The Moon dwarfs any Mountain and that puts the cutting power of his blade far beyond any Bijuu Dama. Stop arguing that Naruto tanked it. He did not tank it. That doesn't even make any sense no matter how we try to spin it. He dodged it and that's why he wasn't pushed out of and through the Moon, but was still in the initial crack made by the blade. That along w/ the size of the blade compared to Naruto's body are why he survived it. The larger the target compared to the edge of the blade, the better chance of penetration.

-It cuts through any PS or any Mokuton Avatar.
-It cuts through any Raikage, that or Toneri just absorbs all their chakra using Localized Reincarnation Explosion.
-It cuts through any Susanoo, including Itachi's.
-It cuts through Gaara's Sand with no effort.
-It cuts through any Bijuu Mode/Avatar with no effort.

This also ignores his other abilities such as the ability to control repulsive and attractive forces, albeit at a limited level compared to the Rinnegan at least in terms of raw power and the fact he possesses a full set of Gudo Dama. That fact alone puts him above anyone who isn't BM Naruto/EMS Sasuke level.

The only people who beat Toneri are the ones in this Manga who obtained Rikudos chakra or the Juubi. Kakashi, Naruto, Obito, Madara, Sasuke, Kaguya, Hagoromo, Hamura, Ashura, Indra. Or people who have the means to dodge/evade/nullify his strongest techs and the power/speed/technique to land a hit and kill him, but the only people who have that ability are the ones already listed. Oh yeah, and 8th Gate Gai. All others die. People like Madara (no Rikudo power) and Hashirama have the means to kill him but have no real answer to Golden Wheel.

1: how did he evade the attack if he got smacked down into the crack? He was charging at toneri(who was in the air when toneri strikes and Naruto ends up in the crack in the moon). He doesn't necessarily have to get blown all the way through. It's a beam so can blow him back(as he gets blown into the crack but can also pass over him, it's not fully solid that's why Naruto could push back against it in the second instant when he is charging at Toneri while blocking).
2: you guys have completely ignored the second time he used the tech when naruto just blocks with his hand.

Also there is no indication of how thick the outer crust of the moon is. This is pretty much why I said nobody can base the strength of that attack on the splitting of the moon. You say a small country was hollowed out. Which is pretty much nothing compared to the size of the moon. Toneri used silver wheel to blow Naruto and his team through the external crust. I have to go back and check but if the otsutsuki place was at the center it means he blew them through continents worth of earth and they came out with 0 damage I find that hard to believe.

 

[UchihasRightfulHeir]

Bold is also bad logic. The Moon and Mountains on Earth are all rock, yet it's harder to cut through the Moon completely because it is made of more rock, thus is more durable thus if you want to penetrate deeper more energy is needed. Extend Sasuke's regular sword to the size of Golden Wheel and it's not cutting the Moon in half. Doesn't even come close.

Madara's PS cuts through multiple Mountains. Even if you wanted to downplay the blade you'd have to at the very least put it on par with this if you want to use the logic that "rock is rock". That alone is enough to fodderize everyone besides EMS Madara leveled fighters and above. Combine that w/ the rest of his arsenal and that puts him above everyone besides VoTE Madara, Hashirama, and those above them, so you are still massively underrating him.

my logic is based on the moon being more hollow than not and also naruto getting hit by the attack( pretty sure the second instance is non arguable). so i think my analogy is fine.

 

[Hakke]

Well we see the tech basically strike him then he blocks it the second time with just his hand so...

what Toneri used in the second attack was just a linear beam but in the first attack he used a blade

completely different attacks

and I think that the rest of your post has already been addressed.

 

[KidGamer65]

1: how did he evade the attack if he got smacked down into the crack? He was charging at toneri(who was in the air when toneri strikes and Naruto ends up in the crack in the moon). He doesn't necessarily have to get blown all the way through. It's a beam so can blow him back(as he gets blown into the crack but can also pass over him, it's not fully solid that's why Naruto could push back against it in the second instant when he is charging at Toneri while blocking).
2: you guys have completely ignored the second time he used the tech when naruto just blocks with his hand.

Also there is no indication of how thick the outer crust of the moon is. This is pretty much why I said nobody can base the strength of that attack on the splitting of the moon. You say a small country was hollowed out. Which is pretty much nothing compared to the size of the moon. Toneri used silver wheel to blow Naruto and his team through the external crust. I have to go back and check but if the otsutsuki place was at the center it means he blew them through continents worth of earth and they came out with 0 damage I find that hard to believe.

He got hit there, but evaded the majority of the damage by not being slammed into the ground by said blade. Like I said it's physics. The larger Naruto is compared to the blade the harder penetration will be. Penetration only occurs because the energy applied to the target is smaller than the actual target itself. With enough force my fist could penetrate someone's stomach but not another fist.

The blade was as large as Naruto's body so when he got hit, it didn't penetrate, meaning the brunt of the damage would come from being being slammed into the ground and through the Moon's exterior and interior, however he evaded that portion which is why the blade traveled across the Moon yet Naruto was left in the crack.

Because that's not him using it as a blade, thus there's no reason it should be the same strength. Blades don't automatically pierce as well as they cut. That's why it was ignored.

Yeah, there's no indication exactly, but we already know for a fact that the no more than 50-80 percent of the Moon is hollow. That's enough to prove what I'm saying. Silver Wheel was a giant Tornado, that's why it did no significant damage to the team themselves, but in terms of overall power it's on par w/ Planetary Rasengan from The Last Naruto. Not sure if Toneri's residence is located smack dab in the center.

my logic is based on the moon being more hollow than not and also naruto getting hit by the attack( pretty sure the second instance is non arguable). so i think my analogy is fine.

The Moon isn't more hollow than not. Nothing like that ever stated or even implied. What is implied is that they made enough room for themselves to live. That's a country. Not up to 50% and even if it was, 10% of the Moon still dwarfs ANY Mountain on Earth. That at the very least if you want to lowball it, puts Toneri's destructive capability on par w/ Madara's Susanoo. Far above what you are claiming.

 

[123fire]

Bro Toneri soloed Naruto